Apple Releases New 15" MacBook Pro, Updates 17" MacBook Pro

[DanBook]

RE: Not good again.

Not good again. Basically apple decided to shaft the video "pro" market once again by making a beefed up consumer model their "pro" line. So they got firewire back on the smaller one, but the 15-inch lost the express slot and now has just 1 firewire slot and no way possible to expand that now. I was just on a conference call this morning about a shoot next week, and we need to take a fw400 cable from a camera, to the mac, and write off to a a firewire 800 drive. Well thanks apple for making sure that the new way of production being done on set must be done with a laptop 2 generations old. Oh I mean sure I guess I could lug around the 17-inch, but that's a desktop replacement, not a true laptop, and not nearly as convenient to use as my old 15 that has all the connection I need. Looks like no new laptop for ma again!

Wow. I couldn't agree more. This is a really sad direction for Apple to be taking. It seems like the focus in Cupertino has really shifted away from quality products and toward more market share and $$. This saddens me because I'm one of those loyal mac users who stuck with the company when their stock was worth less than $20 BECAUSE THEY MADE A BETTER PRODUCT.

It's obvious why they've done this; they're following the same stupid formula as the rest of the industry: up the specs and lower the price, and your average stupid consumer (like the ones in the most recent misleading Microsoft commercials) will find it more appealing. This is because all these shoppers typically do is look at numbers and assume that this equates with a better experience and greater longevity. This latest move by Apple is a clear example of why they're wrong; by dropping the ExpressCard capability and replaceable battery, they're effectively limiting the life and expandability of the machine. By making the battery irreplaceable, it appears they've also dropped the ability to swap in a new hard drive without partially dismantling the machine.

I'm just glad I jumped for the 2.4 Ghz 15" Unibody when they came out. I couldn't be happier with its performance; and if I take care of it, I'll probably be able to hold on to it for 5-10 years. I wouldn't be surprised if these things start selling like hot cakes over the next few months. In my opinion, it's like the Pontiac GTO of laptops; there won't be another one like it.

 

[bloodycape]

lol get a mac pro
it's always the video/audio crowd that whinges the most about doing their craft on a laptop. Face it dorks, professional level Audio/Video...is not 'there' for laptops.

Especially you video ppl. you can't compete with other ppl in your field, the one's with 8-core mac pros, using a laptop. stop kidding yourselves and get a real computer.

I would beg to differ. Just look at the huge beast of a laptop by Sager http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/08/sager-np9280-with-core-i7-and-triple-ssds-is-the-worlds-most-po/
Not the best looking out there, but it is using Intels new i7 cpu with 1GB of NVIDIA GeForce GTX 280M graphics, a 17.1-inch 1920x1200 display, express card slot, three different HDD slots, and up to 12gb of DDR3 ram. It is one of the few currently using the i7 chip(not many desktops have this chip). If this is not a Pro laptop then nothing really is.
So once a few more larger companies, say Apple, Lenovo,or Samsung come out with an i7 cpu laptop the weight(hopefully) should go down to a more reasonable 5-8lbs, and so should the price all with better looks.

 

[ecPixel]

I went out last monday to buy the 2.66 MBP from BB knowing perfectly well that something new might come out during the WWDC. I'm within the 14day return period and I went by BB after work. The employee said yeah, we don't have it in stock yet, I can ask the manager to write on your receipt to let you exchange the new 2.8 MBP when it gets here even if it's after the 14day period. Just use it till it gets here and don't worry about returning it for refund now. And for FREE, no 10% restock fee like apple retail store!

I'm debating on whether to keep the old one or get the new one for $100 cheaper. I'm a graphic designer, and have never ever used the expresscard on my Powermac G4 all these years, except to stick some paper/a pen in it for fun when I'm bored. To me 2.8 > 2.66, 500gb 5,400 rpm > 320gb 5,400 rpm, newer screen > older screen, 7hr > 5hr, SD slot mean returning my belkin media reader and getting a usb reader my my sony AVCHD mircostick.

After reading this thread, seems like people think the 2.66 is worth keeping than getting the 2.8. What to do?

 

[WickedRabbit]

losing the express card slot in exchange for an SD card was just a dumb move. Most aircards use the express card slot, not to mention that slot is neater to use seeing as how the majority of the card tucks inside. Now, Apple is only leaving its customers the option of having to buy a USB aircard and take up 1 of its only two usb ports. Why is it that Apple can't just give people what they want?

It's great to see that they finally added an SD card slot (after a decade... way to be unfashionably late to the party, Apple), but it made no sense to add it in place of the Express Card slot.

They re-added firewire which is good and that along with the standard backlit keyboard I'm sure will piss off a ton of people who bought the last 13" unibody update model seeing as how you had to shell out upwards of $1600 for a backlit keyboard and now it's $1100.

 

[DoFoT9]

argh what!?!?!?! the MacBook Alu is now part of the MBP line up?!?! thats REALLY confusing!!

only the 9600 nawww

 

[Clrana9017]

Just got an update from Apple CS. Anyone who purchased a MB/P from May 25 onward is eligible to get money back for it. Applies to everyone, including CTO'd products. People are steaming mad, haha. The wait time is approx. 1 hour 45 minutes, so I would call tomorrow.

Apple makes everyone happy now. Haha.

 

[jovanboi]

I bought my UMBP 2.66 with 4GB RAM and 320GB HDD from BB April 3, got the matte display protector last month and **just** bought the AppleCare last Friday (4th June) and activated it. With tax (7%) I dropped $3,056.98. The exact same config (RAM, HDD and processor speed) is now $2,549.76 or a $507.22 difference!

I may just go sell it and get a new 15" 2.8GHz or even the 17". I know the new MBPs were just introduced hours ago, but what do you think the going rate for my machine would be if I put it in the for sale forum?

I think these updates are awesome, and those looking for a new mac will get to take advantage of these price reductions. Although, I am somewhat ambivalent about all of it. Love my computer all day everyday, but knowing I spent a good coin on it just a few short months ago...and *now* the 17" 2.8 is the same price?! If I was one of the people that bought a 17" for close to some $3,000 I'd be somewhat miffed.

 

[applecultvictim]

What the heck is wrong with you people, after extra features added, speed bumps and price cutshow come the positive negative votes are only 90-70.

What more do people want.

I think a lot of the folk here are very spoilt.

 

[cu2010]

Just got an update from Apple CS. Anyone who purchased a MB/P from May 25 onward is eligible to get money back for it. Applies to everyone, including CTO'd products. People are steaming mad, haha. The wait time is approx. 1 hour 45 minutes, so I would call tomorrow.

Apple makes everyone happy now. Haha.

i don't want to return my mbp but will gladly accept a $300 store credit
though i purchased it on may 17th..

 

[DoFoT9]

What the heck is wrong with you people, after extra features added, speed bumps and price cutshow come the positive negative votes are only 90-70.

What more do people want.

I think a lot of the folk here are very spoilt.

a lot of it would be because of the loss of the ExpressSlot and the crappy GPU... not everyone who votes has to comment so its not an indication of everyne being spoilt.

 

[GaryMcT]

What the heck is wrong with you people, after extra features added, speed bumps and price cutshow come the positive negative votes are only 90-70.

What more do people want.

I think a lot of the folk here are very spoilt.

Blu-Ray support.

 

[Clrana9017]

I thought it was spelled "spoiled"? Haha, anyways. The negativity comes from being totally blindsided by the decisions Apple made. Going down the chain, it goes:

Apple refreshing the whole MBP line without any notice
Apple removing ExpressCard (which is a FABULOUS slot that I love)
Apple including SD slot instead (Not cool to some)
Apple dropping prices

Not a lot of people expected these because the minute changes make the most major conflicts. So, I sympathize with everyone because I was hit hard, too. But hey, we get money!

 

[tseitz89]

First Apple limits the capabilities of my UBMP by not allowing 8gb ram and now they take away express card?!?! expansion port was what kept my powerbook good for so long, i could throw in new ports and stuff. why can't Apple just include an expresscard sd reader?

 

[Fahrwahr]

Ok so it's bigger than the 15", but let's be realistic here, we are talking 1.1" wider, .75" deeper and a little more than a pound more. It's the same weight as my old PowerBook G3!

To me having 1900x1200 screen res allows more room for pallets and tools in programs I use as well as being able to see larger photos. There is 25% more space on both the horizontal and vertical edges.

And it still has the express slot and is now $300 cheaper than yesterday!
So why is everyone not jumping up and down over this?

Do you think the 2.8ghz 15" ($2299) is going to be better/faster than the 2.8ghz 17" ($2499)???

I was wondering if someone was going to post about screen resolution. 1440x900 doesn't provide much in the way of pixels. I would think a creative professional would need more room for the myriad of palettes in their programs (my father's been using the Adobe / Aldus / Macromedia desktop publishing programs for years, and the vast array of tools overwhelms me). With that low of a resolution and no matte screen option, was the 15" model really that great of an option for professionals before this update?

 

[tseitz89]

and if it were truly "PRO" it would have a compact flash reader not SD

 

[applecultvictim]

a lot of it would be because of the loss of the ExpressSlot and the crappy GPU... not everyone who votes has to comment so its not an indication of everyne being spoilt.

Yeah but being spoilt means they want everything, and the expess slot, and as card. And two fw, and usbs... We are talking about machines that are the pibnacle of technology, just the unibody alone is stunning. A couple of years ago we d have been stunned with so slim and super powerful machines...

And the graphics are just fine, the nvidia ones, they are super powerful, run cool and have shown 0 defects.

3/4 of the world and more have barely enough to survive, even drinkin water is a luxury to some, and here people complain about having to bring an extra cable along.

Get a grip people.

 

[Val-kyrie]

And the base model lost the 9600GT.

Great way of adding value to my previous model, Apple!

The base model did not change that much if you look at it from the perspective of Apple just adding a newer, lower-end model to fill in the gap between the high end 13" and the low end 15". The big differences in the $1999 model is the better screen, better battery life, and loss of the ExpressCard 34 slot for an SD card slot. I like the first two changes, but not the last. Now the 15" has less versatility - e.g., how do you use e-SATA with a 15" now?

 

[Val-kyrie]

Where did ExpressCard go on MacBook Pro 15"? How am I supposed to stick my ExpressCards in this SDCard reader? What's next, they will remove USBs and replace them with eSATA. May be they have some slot count limitation - if they add one slot then they have to remove some other.
Why there is no SD card reader on 17" MacBook Pro. They couldn't find a place on this tiny machine?
I think that people that designed these machines are retarded! Not less than that.

Ditto here. If Apple was smart, they would have put the SD card slot only on the 13" models and the lowest-end 15" model (with only integrated graphics) if they wanted uniformity, and then put the ExpressCard 34 slot on the mid- and upper-end 15" models so that there would be a dividing line even within the MBP lines between those models with only integrated graphics and those with dedicated graphics. I would prefer an ExpressCard 34 slot on all of them, but Apple is clearly singling out the 17" as a "professional" laptop: it is the only model to offer a "matte" screen and now the only model with an ExpressCard 34 slot. What about (semi-)pros who want a "professional" 15" laptop Apple? huh?

 

[Val-kyrie]

At the very least, Apple should have swapped one of the USB ports for a USB/eSATA combo AND added internal WWAN to compensate. Many PCs offer EC/54 (not EC/34) AND media card readers. Also, no BR at this point in the game is extremely disappointing.

Good point. I was hoping for the addition of a USB/eSATA port, but coupled with the loss of the ExpressCard 34 (even if it is not as popular as the 54 variety) makes this "update" insufferable.

 

[DoFoT9]

Yeah but being spoilt means they want everything, and the expess slot, and as card. And two fw, and usbs... We are talking about machines that are the pibnacle of technology, just the unibody alone is stunning. A couple of years ago we d have been stunned with so slim and super powerful machines...

And the graphics are just fine, the nvidia ones, they are super powerful, run cool and have shown 0 defects.

3/4 of the world and more have barely enough to survive, even drinkin water is a luxury to some, and here people complain about having to bring an extra cable along.

Get a grip people.

the unibody may be stunning for you, to me it is too (the high end ones anyway), everybody has different needs and requirements and they will often voice it, calling them on it wont help your mood nor anyone elses

the nvidia ones have their flaws, remember the 8800??

to did some reseach, im QUITE happy

top spec 15" CTO:
3.06GHz
4GB RAM (will upgrade externally, not paying $1500 up upgrade to 8GB!!!)
500GB HD blaablaa
$4100
Discount: $3900
Dad salary sacrificing: ~$2700 bringing me back down to the price of the original 15" MBP

 

[Torajima]

Yeah but being spoilt means they want everything, and the expess slot, and as card. And two fw, and usbs... We are talking about machines that are the pibnacle of technology, just the unibody alone is stunning. A couple of years ago we d have been stunned with so slim and super powerful machines...

So what you're basically saying is, the fact that it has a slim, cool looking unibody enclosure is more important than the actual capabilities of the machine? Why does it matter if Apple drops the express slot, firewire 400, and a decent video card, just as long as it looks cool?

3/4 of the world and more have barely enough to survive, even drinkin water is a luxury to some, and here people complain about having to bring an extra cable along.

And what the hell does this have to do with anything? It's not like Apple is donating the $5 they save by cutting the express slot to charity...

 

[dmmcintyre3]

SD reader...

All I use my PB's PCMCIA slot for is a SD/SM/CF reader. (2 cards) But then again I have 2 firewire ports and an ESATA adapter is not going to be much faster than FW800 on the PCMCIA slot. I can think of many reasons to use a SD express card reader over a built in reader in place of the the express card slot. Supports more interfaces and you can put more formats of memory cards in there. Apple could have put the SD reader above the express card slot or CD drive. Also if you have room for a SD reader on the MacBook you have room for an express card slot on there too. Give us an option between the two and we would be happy. I would pick the express card slot every time and just buy a SD reader to put in it.

Also you could have just included a express card SD reader anyway. With all the new ports the old design allowed more ports. Move the hard drive and you would have had room for a express card 54 slot and 1 SD reader and 1 CF reader.

The unibody MBP (15 and 17) is just a bad design when it comes to ports. All the 15 inch is is a oversized MacBook with firewire and a dedicated GPU (only on some[Which is stupid])

My 15 inch PB has more ports than the current 17 inch MBP. 10 on the 17 12 on my PB. What is even crazier is that if the s-video was replaced with mini displayport you could replace the DVI with an express card 34 slot (or SD reader based on what apple wants to do). Then you could replace the modem with another USB and the PCMCIA slot with a second express card 34 (or the first if apple wants to make the DVI an SD slot) and gain another USB. Guess what I just fit 4 USB ports, an SD reader and two firewire (could change the 400 to 800) ports on a 15 inch Apple laptop without making the ports extend any further than before. Then to put the CD drive loader on the side just turn it 90º and move the security slot to the other side.

Then make the case unibody and you are done.

I am just less and less impressed with apple hardware. I used to think their laptops were their strength but now I just want the old MBP back. I would rather pay $2000 for a true MacBook PRO in the old case than $1699 for these oversized MacBooks.

Just less motivation for me to buy a used 2.33 GHz MBP that was a true MacBook Pro over new.

 

[deconstruct60]

Thanks, and I don’t want to sound like an ass, but I have worked with all this stuff before (it is what I do), and this is not a good option you have provided. So yes no slot still a negative. The Store Drive is $1800 and can fill up quickly, so you still need to have a computer to transfer footage to a hard drive array for the client (now anther step apple just made us do). Where as the PCMCIA to Express adapter (to plug the cards right into the computer) is $110. So from a $110 to $1800 is a big new expense, isn’t it? I would say that would be a setback! Beside, the hard drive readers bog down the workflow too much. With the Express adapter once the card is transferred directly to the drive array you’re ready to check the shots right there in final cut, and hand the card back to the DP. Now there is another layer of transfer involved, and that just wont cut it time wise on set.

And yea, I know we are a minority, but that’s what the “pro” models where for.

I'm not trying to be an ass either but the post to which I was replying to stated it was practically impossible to get P2 card content to their laptop without an ExpressSlot ('...can only be read by an ExpressCard reader...' ). Expensive, yes. Impossible, no.

I figured the extra hop in workflow (in addition to expense) would be the real complaint as opposed to "can't be done". However, have a more substantive argument with Apple if it is "can't be done". (e.g., USB is too slow, too jacked up implementation of isochronous transfer , doesn't do target boot mode, etc. ).


Looked around a bit those solutions for P2 cards and saw that adapter. One of the adapters mentioned that a boot/reboot was necessary when insert the adapter card. P2 some cards seem to max out at 800 Mbps.
(http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/p2-hd/index.asp). Looks like newer ones that are in the 1.2 Mbps range though.

The costs that drive up those current panasonic solutions is that they are doing "too much" (a tv monitor, hard drive, etc. ) for your workflow. Really only need a box which knows enough to get the data off and drop the data onto a FW800/eSATA wire. Sure may not get the max 1.2 Mbps in the FW800 case but there are far more "pro" devices out there that will have one of those two interfaces going forward than the express card one.
Maybe cost a bit more than $100 but doesn't need to be in the $1000 range.

ExpressCard can do USB or PCI-e 1x. As much as there are ExpressCards doing USB like things (multiformat card readers, cellular 3G modems, etc.) that isn't a huge strong suit when there are two other USB sockets on the machine. So left with PCI tasks (or concurrent bandwidth with other buses). Apple doesn't want to do a PCI slot box in the sub $2000 range. They didn't on the desktop (no slots on desktop although the single processor Mac Pro probably should be down there.) and not doing it here either. In so far at the bottom end of the 15" MacBook Pro pushed several hundred below the $2000 range, the vast majority of folks buying on are going to be down there. That is what the specific unibody is aimed at because those are the folks who are mostly going to pay for it.

 

[dmmcintyre3]

Wow I have never seen the last model refurbs go so fast. There are no refurb MacBooks or the last half MBP left. also the non unibody MBP (the last true MB Pro) was there after the store came online but it is gone too. Looks like nobody wants the new models.

How long until apple puts the express card slot back?

(I thought this was the best update ever until I found out that the SD slot replaced the Express Card slot.)

 

[deconstruct60]

Ditto here. If Apple was smart, they would have put the SD card slot only on the 13" models and the lowest-end 15" model (with only integrated graphics) if they wanted uniformity, and then put the ExpressCard 34 slot on the mid- and upper-end 15" models so that there would be a dividing line even within the MBP lines between those models with only integrated graphics and those with dedicated graphics.

Only if they want to increase costs. That makes for two inventory of cases for the 15" line. That is going to cost Apple more money. If they increase costs and lower the margins there will be another set of folks running around looking for scalps. The more parts that a common over more of the models the cheaper it is for apple to make. That's why they have a more limited set of models than other competitors their size.


If the differences are entirely inside the frame they can use the same one on both. Same reason why a 9400M is inside almost everything now. One part used in as many places as possible.