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I know that Vista can be a pain in the butt, but you can trim it down to make it look and work almost the same as XP. You can turn off the annoying 'confirm' dialogues and everything. It's not so bad.

You *can* do a lot of stuff, but you should not have to. Windows architechts clearly have their heads deep inside marketing deparment asses, or they seem to think touching a mouse makes people somehow stupid. I don't want that in my life.

I stopped giving Windows help years ago and that decision has improved the quality of my life considerably. I'm just so sorry about people who have all these problems (not to even mention the virus problem) and their computer makes them feel stupid even if they are not.

If a system needs a lot of work to be usable, then clearly that work needs to be done. But it needs to be done by the manufacturer, not the end user. That's why I use Apple's systems.

Does anyone think this is the end-of-life for this design? (…) My prediction is we'll see a big update to the MBP at MacWorld '08.

I cannot really say, but I hope it's not. The current design is so beautiful and iconic that I'd hate to see it changed. In fact, I fear that the next design is worse than this, just the way G5/Intel iMacs are not so beautiful than the G4 iMac (which was also iconic design).

I like the use of real aluminum in the design. Far better-looking than any plastic or composite material. Human eye seems to be attracted to real materials, such as metal, glass or wood. Plastic does not look natural at all.

Now, how do I convince the wife to let me buy one? This morning I tried subliminal tactics. I SMS'd her:

I've taken the chicken macbook out of the freezer macbook. How many pieces macbook do we need for dinner macbook?

Chicken. I'd SMS her "Just ordered a new MacBook Pro a minute ago. It'll hold ten times as much photos as the old one! Looks pretty too."

Be a man ;)

I went for it to make my lappy last longer. This laptop will see me through leopard and onto the 10.6 i hope so i think its wise to go with 256 instead of 128.

Wake up, we're talking about video memory here. My 40-month-old PowerBook has 64MB video memory and not once has it been the worst bottleneck. The base model has 2X vram compared to this and while I can see that it can be substantial regarding future operating systems, how on earth would 4X vram help me during the next five(ish) years? They did offer 128MB video ram back in the day, but I decided against — and look where we are now: lesser video memory is perfectly okay, but everything else (CPU, GPU, RAM, resolution, HD-storage, wireless) have been bumped and the difference really shows. 40-month-old is really beginning to show age compared to the new models, but it's not because the old model had too small video memory. It's the other things that count.

It's all marketing hype. Companies like to be selling bigger numbers, while in reality they're selling you "performance notebook" which you will happily use for years. IMO, the lowend model is the best deal in the five years I can remember accurately. Fully-loaded 17-incher is great as well, but as a more expensive unit it's not as great as the lowend bargain.

You will see that the 160 GB 7200 RPM disks have actually _lower_ internal transfer speed (59 MB/sec) than the 160 GB 5400 RPM disks (67 MB/sec). The reason is most likely that the 5400 RPM disks have higher data density, while the 7200 RPM disks use more platters at lower density.

More disks mean more reading heads, which means there's a possibility for really low seek times. But if everything you seek has been stored in a single platter, there's no advantage.

Sometimes more platters means more performance, but not always. Higher density usually means higher transfer speed, but not always.

That's a tradeoff — not a win-win for some design.

Code:
	Disk Test	26.97	
		Sequential	40.42	
			Uncached Write	41.67	25.58 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	37.67	21.32 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	42.69	12.49 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	39.99	20.10 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	20.23	
			Uncached Write	7.00	0.74 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	44.05	14.10 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	58.52	0.41 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	66.79	12.39 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Very slow disk performance! My 4-year-old Hitachi 7k60 performs like this while being 80% full:

Code:
	Disk Test	36.55	
		Sequential	61.78	
			Uncached Write	70.08	43.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	59.32	33.57 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	64.56	18.89 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	55.17	27.73 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	25.95	
			Uncached Write	8.81	0.93 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	64.47	20.64 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	73.45	0.52 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	86.63	16.08 MB/sec [256K blocks]

I find it unacceptable if 4 years old hard drive outperforms anything currently sold.

In "theory" USB 2 is faster than FireWire 400. Doesn't work that way in the real world.

That's because USB is clocked at 1kHz while FireWire is clocked at 8kHz. There's a huge real-world difference! And to continue on the subject, the PCI is clocked at 33/66MHz so that's why internal hard drive should always beat external USB/FW drive hands down without a competition.
 
I cannot really say, but I hope it's not. The current design is so beautiful and iconic that I'd hate to see it changed. In fact, I fear that the next design is worse than this, just the way G5/Intel iMacs are not so beautiful than the G4 iMac (which was also iconic design).

I like the use of real aluminum in the design. Far better-looking than any plastic or composite material. Human eye seems to be attracted to real materials, such as metal, glass or wood. Plastic does not look natural at all.

Bravo! I actually wish that the keyboard keys were made from aluminum, but that may be prohibitively expensive. Perhaps we could go into business selling after-market aluminum keys. . .
 
turbocache is like carrying a large rucksack full of stuff and you are weighed down. you take the canteen from the top sack part and carry it in your hand instead of putting it behind your head. yeah, your head can move a bit better, but now your hand is full. the performance on the extra 256 mb of memory then is much lower too as it is from your mainboard - it must go through all the checks and fsb that the mainboard puts in its way rather than from the card itself.

it is the thing that people have been whining about since day 1 on the macbook.

Turbocache is not like the old system of using system-RAM for textures, nor is it like integrated graphics that use just system-RAM. Turbocache treats both system-RAM (or rather: portion of it) and VRAM as coherent whole. Besides using it for just textures, it could be used for framebuffer as well. Of course it's smart enough to put more commonly used stuff in the fast VRAM, but in other ways, the system-RAM is completely transparentto the GPU.

In short: I would like to have Turbocache even in hi-end vid-cards with 512MB of RAM. It is a Good Thing (tm) with no drawbacks, but with lots of benefits.
 
macbook to pro!!

was plannin to get my first mac.. a blackbook by this month end .. but got clearly blown away by the new mbp!!!! gonna start savin !!!!

me gettin a mbp !!!!
 
...at 1/2 the price?

I ordered a 15" 2.4 GHz, 200 Gb HD MBP with 2 Gb of RAM and a 4 Gb (2x2Gb) set from Crucial (specified for the 2.4 Ghz MBP).

Does anyone have an opinion about whether this combo will work - I don't see why not, but some posts have implied that the RAM MUST be Apple RAM...:confused:

In the PowerPC era the machines were pretty picky about ram. Not so much anymore.

Centrino Pro aka Santa Rosa models -

MSI MS 1636 - 15.4" wxga (glossy) Nvidia 8400 256mb dedicated
MSI MS 1637- 15.4" wxga (glossy) Intel Integrated x3100
MSI MS 1221 - 12.1" wxga (glossy) Intel Integrated x3100

Mac used to produce best of class laptops.

Now they sell dated technology for twice the price.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=127191

Configure it yourself here:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

more Santa Rosa laptops from MSI:

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1636

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1637


Okie, I did. The only one remotely close to the Macbook was $2047.00. And it still has a slightly weaker GPU, and no apps aside from the bottom level Office. Add in your anti-virus software, DVD tools. Video and audio editing tools etc and it will be far more than the Macbook.

So your point was what exactly?
 
In the PowerPC era the machines were pretty picky about ram. Not so much anymore.




Okie, I did. The only one remotely close to the Macbook was $2047.00. And it still has a slightly weaker GPU, and no apps aside from the bottom level Office. Add in your anti-virus software, DVD tools. Video and audio editing tools etc and it will be far more than the Macbook.

So your point was what exactly?

that configurator

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

is for the 12inch, under 4 lb laptop with fingerprint authorization, Intel Turbo Memory (Robson) , HDMI out etc.
It's a premium item that apple can't match in its current lineup of computers.

That 12inch is an award winning design. And the fingerprint authentication?
nice. very nice.

HDMI output? Insane.

If you want one of those that match more closely apple's offerings, try
this one:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183/

or this one:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/182/

You can get any of those without paying for an operating system and then install OS X for Intel on em.
 
Any thoughts about the following?

4. AppleCare -- when does AppleCare kick in anyway ?-- after the 1 yr warranty on the computer runs out, or right away? Should I have therefore waited a year to get Apple Care?

Without AppleCare you get 90 days telephone support and a year's technical support. If you buy Applecare at the beginning you get three years support for both.

You can wait and get AppleCare any time within the first year but you'll only have the telephone support for 90 days.
 
MacBook $2000, MSI (same features) $1350.00

MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.2GHz
Part Number: MA895LL/A
Accessory Kit
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB

^^that one costs $1999.00

MSI's similarly spec'd laptop: $1373.00

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183
 
MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.2GHz
Part Number: MA895LL/A
Accessory Kit
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB

^^that one costs $1999.00

MSI's similarly spec'd laptop: $1373.00

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183

I specced it up and it comes to $1612.

You can't seriously be comparing these two laptops though. The specs are roughly similar but for the sake of $400 I'd go with the Apple any day.

I do realise though that this is classic troll feeding so I'll shut up now.
 
MacBook $2,974.00, MSI 15474.00

MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.2GHz
Part Number: Z0EB
Accessory Kit
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
160GB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm
4GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x2GB

$2,974.00
Estimated Ship: 4-6 weeks

The same amount of RAM and hard-drive on the MSI costs $1574.00 total

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183/


But the 12inch MSI MS-1221 is the one with the fingerprint auth,
Intel® Turbo Memory (Robson) etc.

Apple can't touch it.

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1221


And this one was also released this week:

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1719

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_index.asp
 
MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 2.2GHz
Part Number: MA895LL/A
Accessory Kit
MacBook Pro 15-inch Widescreen Display
2.2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
120GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
2GB 667 DDR2 SDRAM - 2x1GB

^^that one costs $1999.00

MSI's similarly spec'd laptop: $1373.00

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183

You'd better run off and get one then.
 
I specced it up and it comes to $1612.

You can't seriously be comparing these two laptops though. The specs are roughly similar but for the sake of $400 I'd go with the Apple any day.

I do realise though that this is classic troll feeding so I'll shut up now.


Is that with OS? I'd just use MAC OS X for intel instead of paying for windows.

The 12inch MSI MS-1221 (was PR200 in development stage):
v nice design:

http://global.msi.com.tw/html/popup/NB/PR200/index.html

Amazing set of features for 12 inch, under 4 pound laptop:

• The Latest Intel® Centrino Duo™ Mobile Technology
• 12" ACV (Amazing Crystal Vision) Widescreen Display
• Fingerprint reader
• TPM Embedded Security Chip V1.2
• AI Array MIC
• HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) Output
• Built-in 1.3 Mega Pixel Webcam
• Built-in Digital TV Receiver (optional)

etc etc


http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1208&maincat_no=135

An insanely great product:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

Apple hasn't made a laptop that ahead of the curve since the PowerBook 3400c

PR200.jpg
 
You'd better run off and get one then.

I agree.

"Stonecipher", You have 4 posts on this forum and all of them advertise crappy generic laptops that run a bloated beta-level OS ;)

Come back when you've actually used a mac for any length of time and we'll have this debate then.

Is that with OS? I'd just use MAC OS X for intel instead of paying for windows.

hahahaa.....we're done.
 
I agree.

"Stonecipher", You have 4 posts on this forum and all of them advertise crappy generic laptops that run a bloated beta-level OS ;)

Come back when you've actually used a mac for any length of time and we'll have this debate then.

I've owned both desktop and laptop Apple Mac computers for years. Including the 3400c and an iBook.

The 3400c was the tipping point in terms of Apple producing portables ahead of the pack. Now apple's at the back of the pack with their portable offerings.

And you don't have to buy apple hardware to run Mac OS X.

So why not buy the best? especially when it costs less, looks better and has more features?

I agree.

"Stonecipher", You have 4 posts on this forum and all of them advertise crappy generic laptops that run a bloated beta-level OS ;)

Come back when you've actually used a mac for any length of time and we'll have this debate then.

Crappy? Huh?

http://global.msi.com.tw/html/popup/NB/PR200/index.html

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1221

if only apple made a 12inch under 4 pound laptop with all those features...
 
Could anyone who already got one somehow find out the clock of the graphics? I want to know if it's underclocked or not.

I don't know the easiest way to do that, in Windows maybe? Please mail result to dospam@gmail.com if you are willing to do it.
 
You can get any of those without paying for an operating system and then install OS X for Intel on em.

That would be illegal. And the laptop you asked to compare to MBP? It's indeed cheaper. But it has crappier vid-card, it has no N-spec wireless, no backlit keyboard, the case is made from plastic as opposed to aluminium, no optical audio out, no DVI (!!!!), no firewire800, it weights more (5.85lbs vs. 5.4), it has generic and boring design as opposed to MBP sublime design.... So how exactly is it better? It seems to me that this boils down to the typical Mac vs. PC-comparison. Yes, you can get a PC for less money, but when you really compare the two, you will notice how the PC is made from crappier components and how corners have been cut.
 
Crappy? Huh?

http://global.msi.com.tw/html/popup/NB/PR200/index.html

http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1221

if only apple made a 12inch under 4 pound laptop with all those features...

Those are generic "yet-another-laptop"-machines. I see nothing interesting in them. yes, the specs are decent, but specs alone does not make laptop good. And they still don't have OS X. And if you now try to claim that "but you can run OS X on them!". Well, by that logic I could say that I could steal a MBP from a store, making it infinitely cheaper than that generic MSI-laptop. How's that for a good deal?
 
You can get any of those without paying for an operating system and then install OS X for Intel on em.
No, you can install an unpaid for hack of OS X on them there updates might break it and Leopard might not work (thought very likely will.)

MSI MS-1636 15.4" WXGA Widescreen Intel®...

MSI MS-1636 15.4" WXGA Widescreen Intel® PM965 Core™ 2 Duo Barebone Notebook, NVIDIA® Geforce® Go 8400M-G 256MB, Super-Multi Drive, Integrated Bluetooth, 1.3MP Camera-Vista™ Premium Ready!

2.2GHz, 2GB ram (sweet prices compared to apple) and 160GB HDD makes it $1403
Still half as fast graphics card.

Add OS and software package, even if you want to do it yourway say atleast you but OS X and iLife and then run a hack to be a little more morally correct, add what? $170? Still cheaper, thought of course as a student or adc member you can get the macbook pro even cheaper. And I much rather have something which will definitly run OS X without no hazzle or troubles and there I know future versions and updates will work.

Those are generic "yet-another-laptop"-machines. I see nothing interesting in them. yes, the specs are decent, but specs alone does not make laptop good. And they still don't have OS X. And if you now try to claim that "but you can run OS X on them!". Well, by that logic I could say that I could steal a MBP from a store, making it infinitely cheaper than that generic MSI-laptop. How's that for a good deal?
I like it! Grab one for me aswell :D
 
And if you now try to claim that "but you can run OS X on them!". Well, by that logic I could say that I could steal a MBP from a store, making it infinitely cheaper than that generic MSI-laptop. How's that for a good deal?

:) Heck, why not go all the way? Rob a bank, and buy an even better laptop, and keep the change.

The very idea that this troll can claim you can buy this laptop and put OS X on it is both fraudulent and a tiny bit stupid.

No need to spend $$$ on that expensive Vista Ultimate plan, hack it yourself!

You could even pirate CS3 and have it running for free on your new, illegal laptop.
 
Almost everyone in this thread who's contemplating buying or upgrading to the Santa Rosa MBP certainly is a "rich kid".

Bollocks. Quite frankly that is the most ignorant comment in this thread. I saved for over a year for mine and i still don't have enough money! £370 of it is remaining on my credit card!

Wake up, we're talking about video memory here. My 40-month-old PowerBook has 64MB video memory and not once has it been the worst bottleneck. The base model has 2X vram compared to this and while I can see that it can be substantial regarding future operating systems, how on earth would 4X vram help me during the next five(ish) years? They did offer 128MB video ram back in the day, but I decided against — and look where we are now: lesser video memory is perfectly okay, but everything else (CPU, GPU, RAM, resolution, HD-storage, wireless) have been bumped and the difference really shows. 40-month-old is really beginning to show age compared to the new models, but it's not because the old model had too small video memory. It's the other things that count.

It's all marketing hype. Companies like to be selling bigger numbers, while in reality they're selling you "performance notebook" which you will happily use for years. IMO, the lowend model is the best deal in the five years I can remember accurately. Fully-loaded 17-incher is great as well, but as a more expensive unit it's not as great as the lowend bargain.

I think you need to wake up, we are moving into the days of core animation......resolution independence and 1080p digital media. Whilst 128mb gcard will do all those we are at that point in technology now. I want this thing to last me 3-5yrs where will we be then? You don't know and neither do I hence why the safer option if you can afford it is to go for the 256.
 
Is that with OS? I'd just use MAC OS X for intel instead of paying for windows.

The 12inch MSI MS-1221 (was PR200 in development stage):
v nice design:

http://global.msi.com.tw/html/popup/NB/PR200/index.html

Amazing set of features for 12 inch, under 4 pound laptop:

• The Latest Intel® Centrino Duo™ Mobile Technology
• 12" ACV (Amazing Crystal Vision) Widescreen Display
• Fingerprint reader
• TPM Embedded Security Chip V1.2
• AI Array MIC
• HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) Output
• Built-in 1.3 Mega Pixel Webcam
• Built-in Digital TV Receiver (optional)

etc etc


http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=proddesc&prod_no=1208&maincat_no=135

An insanely great product:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

Apple hasn't made a laptop that ahead of the curve since the PowerBook 3400c

PR200.jpg

That Laptop sure is ugly. Looks like Walmart designed it!
 
Due to stupid rebate road blocks with Amazon, I'll probably get the edu discount and sell the nano.

If all goes well I'll actually come out cheaper than Amazon.:cool:


I've never had any issue with amazon rebates since they went to online processing.
 
:) Heck, why not go all the way? Rob a bank, and buy an even better laptop, and keep the change.

The very idea that this troll can claim you can buy this laptop and put OS X on it is both fraudulent and a tiny bit stupid.

No need to spend $$$ on that expensive Vista Ultimate plan, hack it yourself!

You could even pirate CS3 and have it running for free on your new, illegal laptop.
Yeah, because that comparison is so very close to pirating a bit of software. :rolleyes:

I don't know ANY Mac owners that don't have some pirated software, be it Office, Photoshop, Final Cut, Logic.. it's why many people choose Macs believe it or not.

Macs are alright, but Apple produce some flawed products (Core Duo MacBooks anyone?), and their claim that their programs are crash-proof is rubbish. iMovie has crashed on me roughly five times in the past two weeks, ridiculous for an in-house project. I've hardly ever had to deal with such problems on my (quicker) Windows laptop (HP Compaq nc4400). Everything loads quicker, it runs everything I throw at it perfectly and has about five hours battery life. However, there are programs on each platform that are exclusive, and that's why I have both (MacBook and a Windows laptop).
 
Will the troll just die already?

Let's just get back to the sexy new MBP topic!! :apple: (WIth LED!!)
 
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