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Apple Releases New MacBook Pros with Santa Rosa
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Yeah, because that comparison is so very close to pirating a bit of software.
Point is that his comparison is pointless. He's comparing a 100% legal Mac to a PC running unlicensed software. It's like saying "iTunes is too expensive, since I can get songs for free from P2P!". If he wants to compare Apples to Oranges, he should compare machines that are 100% legit. And in this case it means that the MSI gets Windows, and MPB gets OS X. If he decides to mix things up with pirated software, we could add pirated copy of CS3 to the MBP. How would the comparison look then?
Why not simply compare 100% legit machines with legit software? That way we can get true Apples to Oranges comparison.
What's wrong with those?
They claim that their OS is crash-proof. I don't think they have ever talked of crash-proof apps.
I'm not arguing for or against his or your points, except for the way you compared pirated software to robbing a bank. A silly comparison.
The Core Duo MacBooks get extremely hot, the iSight decides when it wants to work, the software crashes, it's embarassing to own sometimes.
I thought iLife was part of the OS package?
Those comparisons to the MSI are ridiculous. The MSI has a significantly less powerful GPU (8400M compared to 8600M GT), and a regular LCD, not an LED-backlit display. Those easily account for the price differences, not to even mention the differences in build quality and materials.
As far as the point that Apple doesn't make a 12" under 4-pound laptop; well, yes. But I don't see why you point to the MSI specifically for that; Dell, IBM/Lenovo, Sony, etc. all make laptops like this as well.
Yes, Apple doesn't have a product like that right now, although it has been heavily rumoured for a long time.
But your point that Apple is not on the cutting edge because they don't have a 12" under 4 pound laptop is ridiculous.
Apple is, right now, the first company to offer a laptop with a 15.4" LED-backlit display. They are the only company I know of offering the power of an 8600M GT in a 1" thick 5.4 pound package - the only similarly configured machines I've seen from Clevo, Zepto and Asus are significantly thicker and heavier and don't have LED-backlit screens.
It is ridiculous to say that Apple is not ahead of the curve right now. Also, despite all the complaints about Apple falling behind, just because everyone else announced their Santa Rosa notebooks in May, the reality is that you can now actually BUY Apple's Santa Rosa MBP now, while many of those "Announced" notebooks won't be available til later this month or even July and August.
As far as the point that Apple doesn't make a 12" under 4-pound laptop; well, yes. But I don't see why you point to the MSI specifically for that; Dell, IBM/Lenovo, Sony, etc. all make laptops like this as well.
Yes, Apple doesn't have a product like that right now, although it has been heavily rumoured for a long time.
But your point that Apple is not on the cutting edge because they don't have a 12" under 4 pound laptop is ridiculous.
Apple is, right now, the first company to offer a laptop with a 15.4" LED-backlit display. They are the only company I know of offering the power of an 8600M GT in a 1" thick 5.4 pound package - the only similarly configured machines I've seen from Clevo, Zepto and Asus are significantly thicker and heavier and don't have LED-backlit screens.
It is ridiculous to say that Apple is not ahead of the curve right now. Also, despite all the complaints about Apple falling behind, just because everyone else announced their Santa Rosa notebooks in May, the reality is that you can now actually BUY Apple's Santa Rosa MBP now, while many of those "Announced" notebooks won't be available til later this month or even July and August.
Really? Got a link to Apple's 12 inch under 4 lb Santa Rosa based laptop with
biometric fingerprint security, hardware encryption of data, HDMI out etc all for $1500?
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1221
You mean like this 15.4 inch with the 8600M GT ?
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-163A
high end 17inch gamer version with the 8600M GT
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1719
I did not make that comparison. I talked about stealing a laptop. If he compares legal and illegal things, the, the other side should be on an even footing..
I have heard that some Macbooks get hot, but that's not THAT bad. Haven't heard of iSight-problems. And apps crash, that's a fact of life. Besides, if you keep on having so much problems with your machine, why not take it in for service?
It isn't. And even if it shipped as part of the OS, there is still a difference between Operating System and an app that is bundled with the OS. There is a difference between operating system crashing and application crashing.
That machine is heavier, and looks thicker as well (dimensions aren't listed though).
And it only has the 8600M GS, which is not as powerful as the 8600M GT.
And it doesn't have an LED-backlit screen.
Not really sure what your point is.
I don't see a price on it either, but again, it is lacking in a number of areas (LED-backlit screen, weight, thickness presumably, and GPU).
Really? Got a link to Apple's 12 inch under 4 lb Santa Rosa based laptop with
biometric fingerprint security, hardware encryption of data, HDMI out etc all for $1500?
http://www.msicomputer.com/NB/product_spec.asp?model=MS-1221
Well, again, we get your point, why are you so obsessed with this MSI specifically though?
A lot of companies don't make a machine exactly like that........... it seems ridiculous to pick out one particular type of laptop Apple doesn't make and say they aren't on the cutting edge because they don't currently have it in their product line.
A few other manufacturers do have 12 inch Santa Rosa machines out there.
Besides MSI, Samsung and this LG model looks pretty decent, $2K Canadian = 1750 US$?
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12600ST2425&vpn=R200-CB01A9&manufacture=LG
I like the way you can configure the MSI with what hware you want and without an OS. I want a machine to dual boot windows/os x
http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/
if anyone knows of any other 12 inch Santa Rosa machines, pass along the info.
Apple has dropped the ball on the reasonably sized notebook computer. 15.4 and 17 inch machines are not laptops.
Besides MSI, Samsung and this LG model looks pretty decent, $2K Canadian = 1750 US$?
http://www.directcanada.com/products/?sku=12600ST2425&vpn=R200-CB01A9&manufacture=LG
I like the way you can configure the MSI with what hware you want and without an OS. I want a machine to dual boot windows/os x
http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/
if anyone knows of any other 12 inch Santa Rosa machines, pass along the info.
Apple has dropped the ball on the reasonably sized notebook computer. 15.4 and 17 inch machines are not laptops.
OK, you have made your point already..... can we please move on already? You've been making the same point ("Apple sucks, they don't make a 12" laptop!!!!!") for a while now.
ALso, 15.4" is by far the most common and popular laptop size right now...... 12" laptops and smaller are still niche products.
And right now, Apple has one of the thinnest, lightest and most advanced 15.4" notebooks on the market (the only 1" thick one with an 8600M GT, the only 15.4" notebook with an LED-backlit screen).
If it gives you any comfort, a so-called 'MacBook Thin' ultralight laptop has been rumoured to be in the works for a while now.
But you're not going to get your wish if you are looking for something like the MSI stuff. Remember, MSI makes barebones notebook kits designed to be custom configured across the board.
Apple isn't in that business..... neither frankly, are Sony, HP, etc.
So... Unless I'm very much mistaken, you're suggesting that the target market for which Macbook Pros are aimed at - graphics, film, visual, audio and photography professionals buy one of these MSI laptops, put a hacked operating system on it that was never intended to be run on it, with next to no ability to install the latest security and bug fix updates without further extensive hacking (if at all), patchy (at best) OSx86 community drivers and hacks for all the unsupported chipsets, hardware and additional features that are not found on a Macbook Pro and expect it to work well enough to do their jobs?
Really. yet another boring laptop made from gray plastic. It seems that they used maybe 2 minutes on the design. Place it next to a Mac, and it would look embarrasingly crappy. No-one would give that MSI-machine a second look. And it still doesn't have OS X. And it simply has design that is... crappy. Believe me, I have handled laptops like those. And fact is that they simply feel... crappy. I want my equipment to look and feel nice, I do not want squeaking plastic and bland design. I want the machines I use to bring me joy. Some generic slab of gray plastic does not do that.
And does that machine have all the nice touches Macs have? Optical audio out? Magsafe? Could you open the lid with one hand so that the whole machine doesn't tilt over? Does it have backlit keyboard? you know, all those little things?
Do you work for MSI, or why do you keep on pushing their crappy laptops? But hey, if you just want a laptop, go ahead and buy the MSI. But I want something that is a joy to use. MSI is not that.
Texture memory at high resolutions with high texture settings is crucial. You also are probably experiencing network lag.
Texture memory at high resolutions with high texture settings is crucial. I wouldn't game at 1920x1200 with only 128MB of video ram. You can if you want, but it sure isn't pretty.
Not enough texture ram at the native rez.
Turbocache is horrible. You are taking 10-100GB/s of texture bandwidth and cutting it down to 6.4 GB/s. That is bad.
The 17" MBP should have came with 512 MB VRAM. More memory allows for better IQ (higher AA, higher tap Ansio, higher quality textures).
Again, other than gaming what good is the 8600M GT to Mac users?
It will benefit any other apps that are GPU accelerated as well - would explain why we are seeing reports of even better performance with Aperture, for example.
Dis-play or Dat
i'm struggling to work out the benefit of the backlit LED screen beyond power consumption. Is there any? There was a lot of hype leading up to this bump, including people longing for a LED backlit screen, but aside battery life, what else does it bring? apple says it has identicle brightness and color range.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/top/details-on-the-new-led-macbook-pro-266091.php
(apple claims 30mins - 1hr battery life savings, but that probably actually means 15-30mins!)
i was looking at getting a 15in, but having done a price analysis with the memory and HDD upgrades i'd like to do, i'm considering going to 17in. (in-flight use not that important). If so, is HiDef worth it?
LED or not?
Hi-Def or NOT?
i'm struggling to work out the benefit of the backlit LED screen beyond power consumption. Is there any? There was a lot of hype leading up to this bump, including people longing for a LED backlit screen, but aside battery life, what else does it bring? apple says it has identicle brightness and color range.
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/top/details-on-the-new-led-macbook-pro-266091.php
(apple claims 30mins - 1hr battery life savings, but that probably actually means 15-30mins!)
i was looking at getting a 15in, but having done a price analysis with the memory and HDD upgrades i'd like to do, i'm considering going to 17in. (in-flight use not that important). If so, is HiDef worth it?
LED or not?
Hi-Def or NOT?
Of course it's not as good as dedicated VRAM! Sheesh. But it's better to have Turbocache than to NOT have it. It makes sense to have it even on a hi-end card with metric assload of VRAM. Turbocache does not give you any drawbacks as such. Yes, using Turbocache is slower than using dedicated VRAM is. But if you run out of VRAM, then Turbocache can help. Or would you rather NOT have Turbocache at all, and simply rely on good 'ol texturing to system-RAM?
LED backlit displays give a more evenly lit display than cold cathode flourescent ones. Plus they use minimal mercury (which is bad for the environment) by comparison.
I find myself in a similar boat. I'm tempted to go 17" over the 15". In convo with the wife last night, we concluded that we both will not give up laptops, but that we rarely leave the house with them. So I began to chat about how the 17" would give me more screen real estate and that I would not want an external monitor and my wife says that the 17" sounds like something I should get. I wasn't really thinking seriously about that, but now I am.
How is the 17" for using on your lap on the couch? Does it run warmer or cooler than a 15"?
The advantage of the LED is supposed to be even lighting across the entire screen and knowing that the 17" does not have LED (yet), I wonder how those are. I have seen about 20 pages back people asking this question but I do not recall seeing an answer.
More battery time is always welcome. I'd probably use that increased battery time to keep the screen brighter or prevent the CPU from stepping down. Yes, the net time on battery would be less, but I'd have more speed.
/rambling
Couldn't that have been achieved with faster X1600s? What does Aperture use the videocard for? Is it the pixel shaders? VS? I am honestly curious.
The drivers for the card, are the Apples or are they nVidias? I am just trying to honestly understand how people, who feel that the MBP is top of the line Pro material, are happy with knowing they are getting half the amount of VRAM they could be getting. It's like on one hand your guys are brilliantly in tune with hardware specs then on the other you guys seem to be oblivious. I would love to have a 1 inch thick 17" with an 8600m gt with 512 MB RAM. I mean that is UE3 worthy. I am the type of guy that likes throwing all my sliders to the far right, jack up all the texture resolutions settings etc. I also like overclocking and tweaking. So maybe I am comming into this with the wrong perspective.
Did you not drink your Apple brand Kool-Aid this morning?
It must be better, for all the high-end graphix professionals doing high end photochops and logos on their laptops. Like this one:
If you've heard about it, who are you to judge? I cannot rest the laptop on my lap it's that hot. Thus, it doesn't perform its job as a laptop.
iMovie shouldn't crash so often that I lose valuable footage everytime which wastes more of my time, it should be helping me yet it doesn't.
Apple won't do anything about it.
"even if it shipped as part of the OS" which it does?
I've had to restart the OS a couple of times simply because it wouldn't function as it did before iMovie crashed.
First of all, the 17" MBP has 256MB VRAM. And second, there most likely will be only that one game that actually *needs* more than 256MB VRAM and you'll still be able to play it on "slightly less than maximum quality" setting.
Putting more VRAM is a total waste - it will make the laptop a few hundred dollars more expensive, with little to no actual benefit for most people.
I would rather back down on my settings till the texture thrashing stopped. Or go out and buy a better video card, whichever the wife approves of.
The thing is turbocache would slow down your big badass card that has tons of bandwidth, so you would have to run with lower settings anyways.
If this is an important tool for you, why are you using iMovie and not Final Cut?
it doesn't. It ships as part of the computer. I realized that when I erased Panther from my Mac Mini and installed Linux there. Later I erased Linux, and installed Tiger. And iLife was not there. Reason for that is that it didn't ship with the OS, it shipped with the computer. And still, there is a difference between app crashing and OS crashing, even if the app came bundled with the OS.
Couple of times? Oh the humanity!
LOL, you really think more than 1 to 3% of the macbook pro buyers are
"graphics, film, visual, audio and photography professionals"?
No "graphics, film, visual, audio and photography professional
is going to use a laptop for any serious audio/video work. Graphics pros aren't likely to use em much in their daily designing either. They might own one. But they're going to have a dedicated, tweaked to the max desktop machine. The slow hard drives in laptops alone is enough to keep them from being useful/very good at decoding/processing large video/graphic files. even the new 7200 rpm laptop drives are slow-footed cousins to their desktop counterparts.