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Apple Releases New MacBook Pros with Santa Rosa

Yeah, I've been reading a lot on the topic of how much Apple rips off for the RAM upgrade. I know my way around computer specs, but when it comes to opening up the case (and possibly voiding that $250 AppleCare warranty), I'm a bit sketchy though. As lame as it sounds, I'm using student loan cash to pay for this so I have plenty of time to spread that extra $300 out just for the sake of never having to upgrade one thing inside the computer itself.

I appreciate the responses. I'm insanely excited but at the same time, concerned about missing the long term benefits of the LEDs.

I would love to hear someone's feedback on the 17" HiRes screen. I'm still debating switching over to the 15" with the LED (the delay with the 7200RPM hard-drive gives me that option, unfortunately).

Has anyone used a laptop at 1920x1200 res ever, Mac or otherwise?

Lastly, I'm a bit unclear on the whole resolution independence feature of Leopard (as are most of the Apple people I ask). Does anyone have a quick explanation and how that might apply to the 17" HiRes screen?
 
kentfrancisco said:
Yeah, I've been reading a lot on the topic of how much Apple rips off for the RAM upgrade. I know my way around computer specs, but when it comes to opening up the case (and possibly voiding that $250 AppleCare warranty), I'm a bit sketchy though. As lame as it sounds, I'm using student loan cash to pay for this so I have plenty of time to spread that extra $300 out just for the sake of never having to upgrade one thing inside the computer itself.

I appreciate the responses. I'm insanely excited but at the same time, concerned about missing the long term benefits of the LEDs.

I would love to hear someone's feedback on the 17" HiRes screen. I'm still debating switching over to the 15" with the LED (the delay with the 7200RPM hard-drive gives me that option, unfortunately).

Has anyone used a laptop at 1920x1200 res ever, Mac or otherwise?

Lastly, I'm a bit unclear on the whole resolution independence feature of Leopard (as are most of the Apple people I ask). Does anyone have a quick explanation and how that might apply to the 17" HiRes screen?
Click to expand...

Upgrading the RAM is very simple; it's just a panel right underneath it. Replacing the RAM doesn't require opening up the whole notebook, and doesn't void the warranty.
 
diamond.g said:
Can Intel pull off another 400mhz thermally as it is? 35W is supposed to be the TDP for the current procs. Is the X-series procs gonna raise that to 45 or even 55W?
Click to expand...
At stock speeds the X7xxx series should only produce 10-20% more heat then the current T7500. They have gotten a lot of experience at producing at the 65nm scale. Refined processes on new chip yields are showing lower TDP ratings across all Core 2 lines.
 
kentfrancisco said:
Yeah, I've been reading a lot on the topic of how much Apple rips off for the RAM upgrade. I know my way around computer specs, but when it comes to opening up the case (and possibly voiding that $250 AppleCare warranty), I'm a bit sketchy though. As lame as it sounds, I'm using student loan cash to pay for this so I have plenty of time to spread that extra $300 out just for the sake of never having to upgrade one thing inside the computer itself.

I appreciate the responses. I'm insanely excited but at the same time, concerned about missing the long term benefits of the LEDs.

I would love to hear someone's feedback on the 17" HiRes screen. I'm still debating switching over to the 15" with the LED (the delay with the 7200RPM hard-drive gives me that option, unfortunately).

Has anyone used a laptop at 1920x1200 res ever, Mac or otherwise?

Lastly, I'm a bit unclear on the whole resolution independence feature of Leopard (as are most of the Apple people I ask). Does anyone have a quick explanation and how that might apply to the 17" HiRes screen?
Click to expand...

I'm looking at getting the same set up as you. To get an idea of what 1900 x 1200 looks like just switch your current monitor to display at that resolution. It's actually quite small and difficult to read but it adds like 30% more screen. If you are doing graphics based applications (like me) then the tight resolution is fine but if you really need to read stuff then it may be a bit too much.

The one plus to the 17" screen (and a lot of you may disagree with me but I am just throwing this out there) is that you are getting the best of the old technology as opposed to the first edition of a brand new technology. This may or may not be a good thing. Anyone have thoughts on that at all?
 
I'm also unclear on the whole resolution independence feature of Leopard. If anyone could shed some light on that that would be great! Thanks.
 
cpnorris said:
I'm also unclear on the whole resolution independence feature of Leopard. If anyone could shed some light on that that would be great! Thanks.
Click to expand...

The idea of resolution independence is that it allows the OS and applications to scale properly regardless of the screen resolution.

The big problem with high res screens normally is that at very high resolutions, things like text and icons get too small to see comfortably.

With Resolution Independence, developers are able to make their apps text, icons, etc. scale properly to various screen resolutions, so that if the app is running on a 1920x1200 display, it can still look good.
 
Zadillo said:
The idea of resolution independence is that it allows the OS and applications to scale properly regardless of the screen resolution.

The big problem with high res screens normally is that at very high resolutions, things like text and icons get too small to see comfortably.

With Resolution Independence, developers are able to make their apps text, icons, etc. scale properly to various screen resolutions, so that if the app is running on a 1920x1200 display, it can still look good.
Click to expand...

Forgive me for being so green, but how does it manage to do this while still maintaining the advantages of having a higher resolution screen? I mean, how can text be scaled without increasing the size of the window itself? Sounds like the desktop is 1920x1200 but the app window would be 1440x900...

Zadillo - just saw your post on Gizmodo's story about LED vs. Fluorescent LCD's being exactly the same when both are new. Does it really take only 6 months to lose a significant amount of brightness with the regular LCD backlighting?

I feel like there has to be some merit to the comment above regarding getting the best of the older vs. 1st gen on new, unproven technology...

Furthermore, is there any hard evidence that LED backlit LCD's do not lose brightness over time, or is this just based on assumptions about the technology itself?
 
kentfrancisco said:
Forgive me for being so green, but how does it manage to do this while still maintaining the advantages of having a higher resolution screen? I mean, how can text be scaled without increasing the size of the window itself? Sounds like the desktop is 1920x1200 but the app window would be 1440x900...

Zadillo - just saw your post on Gizmodo's story about LED vs. Fluorescent LCD's being exactly the same when both are new. Does it really take only 6 months to lose a significant amount of brightness with the regular LCD backlighting?

I feel like there has to be some merit to the comment above regarding getting the best of the older vs. 1st gen on new, unproven technology...
Click to expand...

I haven't seen how resolution independence is handled in practice, so I can't really answer that. It's more about making sure that UI elements scale properly with larger resolutions, etc.

Re: my post on Gizmodo; I didn't bring up the 6 month example, they did. But I think there is something to it. Looking at the new MBP next to the old ones on display at the Apple Store (which must have been months old), the old MBP's were noticeably much darker.

The point I was making on GIzmodo there is that if they can darken so much, it shows clearly that there is a pretty major benefit. You shouldn't compare the benefits of LED backlighting just to a brand new old MBP, but what it would look like in 6-12 months.

-Zadillo

kentfrancisco said:
Furthermore, is there any hard evidence that LED backlit LCD's do not lose brightness over time, or is this just based on assumptions about the technology itself?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure there is; Sony's been using LED-backlighting in their SZ lineup for a while now, and I think people have been able to see that they don't fade over time.

This is a known benefit of LED's in general though.
 
kentfrancisco said:
Forgive me for being so green, but how does it manage to do this while still maintaining the advantages of having a higher resolution screen? I mean, how can text be scaled without increasing the size of the window itself? Sounds like the desktop is 1920x1200 but the app window would be 1440x900...

Zadillo - just saw your post on Gizmodo's story about LED vs. Fluorescent LCD's being exactly the same when both are new. Does it really take only 6 months to lose a significant amount of brightness with the regular LCD backlighting?

I feel like there has to be some merit to the comment above regarding getting the best of the older vs. 1st gen on new, unproven technology...
Click to expand...

Exactly! That's the reason I see no need for these high resolution displays. If users are just going to use resolution independence to increase UI size and increase text size, then why have a higher resolution desktop? Are people complaining that current displays are too 'pixelated'.

Maybe photographers will get a benefit them? Personally I like displays at <100ppi.
 
slffl said:
Exactly! That's the reason I see no need for these high resolution displays. If users are just going to use resolution independence to increase UI size and increase text size, then why have a higher resolution desktop? Are people complaining that current displays are too 'pixelated'.

Maybe photographers will get a benefit them? Personally I like displays at <100ppi.
Click to expand...

It's hard to say..... I think in theory at least, the idea is that resolution independence would still allow you to get the benefits of those higher res displays when you needed to (for displaying more content at a time, etc.).

But honestly, without seeing how it will work in practice, I can't say I know how it will work.

From what I've heard though, the goal at least is to give people the best of both worlds.
 
kentfrancisco said:
Zadillo - just saw your post on Gizmodo's story about LED vs. Fluorescent LCD's being exactly the same when both are new.
Click to expand...

that was ridiculous. an op-ed piece based on nothing. as has already been suggested here, apple probably is trying to downplay differences in the displays of the 15" and 17" so as not to cut into the 17" sales where their margin is best. if the author would have actually gotten sample computers and conducted an objective test, that would have been something. but in the mean time, the first-hand reports coming in saw that at its brightest the 15" display is actually too bright.
 
Eidorian said:
*clap*

I wish the MacBook had seen a Santa Rosa update.
Click to expand...


I thought you might like this article from ArsTechnica. To quote part:

"In the second half of 2007, Intel's recently-launched Santa Rosa platform will get a next-generation DVD playback option, according to Intel mobile graphics spokesperson Mike Choi. Intel will use a third-party hardware decoder to bring HD DVD and Blu-ray support to versions of Santa Rosa with integrated graphics processors (IGPs).

Intel's decision to use a dedicated decoder chip will let the company keep costs down. Instead of relying on a more expensive discrete GPU to do the decoding, Intel can ship next-generation DVD support with its IGP products.

....

Choi also told Ars that Intel is currently evaluating DirectX10 support in its mobile line, and that "mostly likely that will be in the first half of 2008 in the mainstream platform."

Intel platform customers won't have to wait until the second half of 2008 for better gaming support, though. Choi said that Intel plans to release preliminary beta driver updates that will enable hardware transform and lighting and Shader Model 3.0 "in the next few days," with full production drivers on both Windows XP and Windows Vista planned later this year.

Choi added that Intel is also evaluating other, unspecified features for later iterations of the platform, and details of those would start trickling out in the next few months."


Based on this information, it looks like DX 10 support will wait until the Montevina platform, but that Hi-Def will be included via a 3rd party hardware decoder chip around the time that Leopard ships! This should also answer a previous poster's question about the hardware decoder chips that were previously rumored. This is pretty much a guarantee for an x3100 IGP in the next MB revision, though I really hope for a BTO dedicated GPU. One can always dream! ;)

diamond.g said:
Intel's Santa Rosa Platform is limited to 667MHz memory. Montevina is supposed to come out sometime in 2008. It will support 800mhz memory, but no one knows if it will be DDR2 or DDR3.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but your post is incorrect. SR is due for a revision in 2H, '07, when it will be updated with Penryn. SR should support 800MHz DDR2 at that point (it was supposed to support 800MHz initially). Montevina is slated to support 800MHz DDR3 with Penryn--a matched set.
 
Val-kyrie said:
Sorry, but your post is incorrect. SR is due for a revision in 2H, '07, when it will be updated with Penryn. SR should support 800MHz DDR2 at that point (it was supposed to support 800MHz initially). Montevina is slated to support 800MHz DDR3 with Penryn--a matched set.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but Apple probably won't update the MBP for a while now...perhaps right before Christmas if we're lucky =) Either that, or January of next year.
 
stonecipher said:
that configurator

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/181/

is for the 12inch, under 4 lb laptop with fingerprint authorization, Intel Turbo Memory (Robson) , HDMI out etc.
It's a premium item that apple can't match in its current lineup of computers.

That 12inch is an award winning design. And the fingerprint authentication?
nice. very nice.

HDMI output? Insane.

If you want one of those that match more closely apple's offerings, try
this one:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/183/

or this one:

http://www.rkcomputer.net/store/index.php/action/item/id/182/

You can get any of those without paying for an operating system and then install OS X for Intel on em.
Click to expand...

Fingerprint authorization? what for? you a cop or something?
if its for security... what do you do when it malfunctions?
Robson... its benifits have come into doubt.

its a premium item complete with premium features that don't matter.

and they don't run OSX... so no one here cares.
 
Have there been any pics posted yet of the new MBP LED screen next to the older one, fr comparison?

I did do a search! Promise.
 
cpnorris said:
I'm looking at getting the same set up as you. To get an idea of what 1900 x 1200 looks like just switch your current monitor to display at that resolution. It's actually quite small and difficult to read but it adds like 30% more screen. If you are doing graphics based applications (like me) then the tight resolution is fine but if you really need to read stuff then it may be a bit too much.
Click to expand...

I've just had a poke around in the System Preferences and just realised that there's no way of increasing the sizes of system fonts (as there is in Windows:-( This means that the high-res screen's going to be a bugger to read (by anyone over 40!) until we get Leopard.

I ain't no Windos apologist here, but I'm really surprised at this. Little wonder Apple aren't going to have the high-res screens for public viewing in the stores!

Unless I'm wrong - please someone tell me I'm wrong - but this has just killed any reason for going for the high-res screen before Leopard. And given that the 17" isn't running LED backlighting, it almost scuppers any reason for going for the 17".

Damn.
 
A is jump said:
Fingerprint authorization? what for? you a cop or something?
if its for security... what do you do when it malfunctions?
Click to expand...

Fingerprint authorisation is very good. Virtually everyone here will have some 'secret' information on their machines, be that bank account/paypal details, address books, your client list, book/film/artwork you've been working on, or national secrets. It's very easy to loose a lappie; whilst it'll be insured, the aggravation of knowing all your "secrets" are now available in public would be a total PITA (especially if it contains other people's information).

I've seen the fingerprint recognition work on a Sony running Windos and it was very good. Get to the login prompt and wipe your finger across the reader; you're either in or not!

There's fallbacks if you don't/can't use your finger (e.g. using a *big* pass phrase).

I for one would *really* like this feature if it were available.
 
Val-kyrie said:
Sorry, but your post is incorrect. SR is due for a revision in 2H, '07, when it will be updated with Penryn. SR should support 800MHz DDR2 at that point (it was supposed to support 800MHz initially). Montevina is slated to support 800MHz DDR3 with Penryn--a matched set.
Click to expand...

You know, I could have sworn I had seen that somewhere. Is Penryn pin compatible with Merom? Either way DDR3, even with the higher latency, will scale much higher and uses less power than DDR2. It may not even be worth the upgrade for laptop users. I guess we will have to see how popular Bearlake is (supposedly uses DDR3 RAM).
 
tj53 said:
Anyone with a new Macbook Pro have any Bluray disks and want to test this out?

According to a reader at xlr8 http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/macbook_pro_blu-ray/macbookpro_matshitaUJ-857E.html#storytop Bluray disks may be able to be read and written on the new Macbook Pro.
Click to expand...

Somehow I'm guessing that is an error in Toast or something. Given the cost of blu-ray drives, there's no way Apple would stick one in there and then not even say anything about it.

-Zadillo
 
tj53 said:
Anyone with a new Macbook Pro have any Bluray disks and want to test this out?

According to a reader at xlr8 http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/macbook_pro_blu-ray/macbookpro_matshitaUJ-857E.html#storytop Bluray disks may be able to be read and written on the new Macbook Pro.
Click to expand...

Oooh - this is very interesting! I wonder if this (BR support) may be one of the Leopard features that is supposedly trickling down into 10.4.10. Wouldn't that be sweet??? Oh that would make me want the new MBP even more... Not that I have any BluRay disks anyway.... :rolleyes:
 
Zadillo said:
Somehow I'm guessing that is an error in Toast or something. Given the cost of blu-ray drives, there's no way Apple would stick one in there and then not even say anything about it.

-Zadillo
Click to expand...

Posted in avsforum. If true we will know relatively shortly.
 
might be old news but i just rang the regents street store, london and they have to new 15" macbook pros in stock - low & high end. ill be getting a low end one shortly :)

i currently have a black macbook but i really miss the backlit keyboard when im typing late into the night and this upgrade of the pro range with leds seems worth the change....
 
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