Apple Releases New PowerMacs

[Little Endian]

I was hoping that the 1.8 gig stayed in the same config with a Video card and a burner update and that it would replace the low-end 1.6 at that price point. $2499 here in Canada. It didn't. now it's $2799 for a scaled down 1.8 and $3499 for the 2Gig



Also I have read a few posts about "you can't get an equal Pc for the price"
I have had to price out a dual AMD for a print server.
MS Windows XP Pro $212
Thermaltake Xaser V Damier w/ 420W PSU $248
LG 4082B 8X DVD+/-R / 4X DVD+/-RW Black $116
Opteron 246 2.0 GHz RETAIL Box $689
Opteron 246 2.0 GHz RETAIL Box $689
Maxtor 160GB w/ 8MB cache $149
Logitech Cordless MX Duo $95
M SI K8T Master2 FAR K8T800, Dual CPU $315
PC3200 DDR400 512MBx2 CAS2.5 (OCZ4001024PDC-K) $339
MSI GeForce FX5200-TD128 128MB DDR w/ TV-Out $89
Total =$2937
Not to start a flame because we all know the Mac OS is much, much better. But at a hardware level this machine is faster, yes faster then the 2 gig mac and about $600 cheaper. Remember Apple likes to compare there sytems to Intel and not the 64 bit AMD. Now "if" I had the money I would buy the mac but I have seen people time and time again go for the cheaper product.Also if your a UNIX user and not interested in all the "extra" stuff you get with OS X what are you going to chose.

Sorry for the rant I'm just pissed the Dual 1.8 specs went down (PCI-X) and the price point went up from the old bottom-end config. Guess I'll have to wait longer to upgrade the I thought.

Nice that you actually priced a build at home PC configuration. As you Can see the Price comes up to about the same For a new Power Mac G5 2.5GHZ!! at least here in the states it does, I also noticed that your pricing for the Opteron System is in USD so it's the same price at least here in the US.

The Power Mac G5 still has the clear advantage as the Build Yourself Dual Opteron System would still lack a Comprehensive Bumper to Bumper Warranty, Would still lack Toslink Digital Audio Connectivity, Would still lack the FW 800 Ports, and using the K8T800 MOBO only supports up to 2GB of Memory Max while the G5 can support 8GB!! Also with the 2.5Ghz G5 you get the Radeon 9600XT w/128MB of Ram. Not to mention the cool factor oh and I think the 500MHZ advantage the G5 2.5GHZ has over the Opteron 246 @ 2GHZ more than gives the G5 the Crown not to mention a 1.25GHZ bus over an 800MHZ bus!! Also as far as you saying the Opteron 246 would be faster compared to a 2GHZ G5? http://www.barefeats.com/g5op.html
True benchmarking is subjective but I would say performance is a wash between the two! Note that now we have 2.5Ghz G5s and The fastest Opterons still top out at only 2.4GHZ I would love to see benchmarks in comparison to the newest Opterons and newest G5. I also think that the Mac OSX platform is overall better at MP Apps as the Mac has a greater amount of MP aware consumer Apps than is available for Windows or Linux.

So that's it I dare anyone to build a Dual Proccessor PC for Considerably less and EQUALLY equipped to the POwer Mac G5 in every way. IT is imposible I invite anyone to challenge this.

 

[g30ffr3y]

you have to pay for the ethernet card???

 

[the future]

This is from page 13 of the G5 white paper. I think it would be very misleading if all these statements about the 90 nm process would actually only refer to the 2.5 model.

 

[iriejedi]

Bottom of apple store page

Can someone give me a link fo the refurb store.. please thanks

Link is bottom Apple Store Home page Lower Left Side - Big RED deal sticker!

 

[zimv20]

This is from page 13 of the G5 white paper.

sorry, i don't think that proves anything

 

[IBSNOWEDIN]

Link is bottom Apple Store Home page Lower Left Side - Big RED deal sticker!

Thanks lol must be going blind didn't see it.

 

[the future]

sorry, i don't think that proves anything

Maybe these examples make the evidence a little harder: in the first one there is a clear differentiation between the 3 models (fsb "up to" 1.25), in the second one they just simply state "90 nm" without any differentiation between the 3 models. Again, no 100% proof, but it's the best we have right now.

 

[Bhennies]

Maybe these examples make the evidence a little harder: in the first one there is a clear differentiation between the 3 models (fsb "up to" 1.25), in the second one they just simply state "90 nm" without any differentiation between the 3 models. Again, no 100% proof, but it's the best we have right now.

The 1.8 and 2.0 are old stock chips as far as I can tell. This was confirmed by the Apple store when I called, and earlier in the threads, there was a link to a press release PDF where it was stated that the 2.5 had the 90 nm and only the 2.5. These sources could I suppose be wrong, but I have yet to see any proof that the 1.8 and 2.0 are 90 nm, and all signs point to the fact that they are not. The only true "update" is the 2.5.

EDIT: Back around page 14 or so if you want to look...at this point I can't even remember

 

[jragosta]

The 1.8 and 2.0 are old stock chips as far as I can tell. This was confirmed by the Apple store when I called, and earlier in the threads, there was a link to a press release PDF where it was stated that the 2.5 had the 90 nm and only the 2.5. These sources could I suppose be wrong, but I have yet to see any proof that the 1.8 and 2.0 are 90 nm, and all signs point to the fact that they are not. The only true "update" is the 2.5.

EDIT: Back around page 14 or so if you want to look...at this point I can't even remember

I guess my question would be: "who cares?"

A 2.0 GHz 90 nm G5 processor isn't going to be any faster than a 2.0 GHz 90 nm G5 processor. Both of them process the same number of the same instructions per second.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

An IT World article clearly states that they don't.

Link

So who are we going to believe -- Apple, or the journalists?

If the IT World article is correct, Apple needs to issue a clarification for the benefit of customers who think they're getting the new 970FX 90-nm chip in new dual 1.8 and dual 2.0 G5s, but aren't.

Well, the question then becomes where did the journalist get his information if not from Apple?

The white paper doesn't explicitly say that all the G5's use the 90nm process, it just talks about the process and never mentions the 130nm process. So I would call it inconclusive. When some one gets a new 2.0GHz they need to open it up and see if the chip is a 970 or a 970FX.

 

[pjkelnhofer]

you have to pay for the ethernet card???

If you are referring to the new G5's, no you don't it has Gigabit ethernet built in. The card is if you want additional ports.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

No surprise, G5 didnt sell as fast as Apple had thought they would and they have even said so, so that means a lot of 1.8, 2.0 G5s laying around(970s) along with Sorry FX5200s to get rid of. remember when these guys make deals they buy this stuff by the boatloads and hence have boatloads of this stuff to still get rid of. Think about G4, How many boatloads of those did they buy? Still selling 1.25 G4s in Powermacs and i bet you they bought those G4s a long long time ago. Apples model buys quantities upfront iam convinced, not like some Pc makers who can change componets as soon as available or anytime they want. This is their own fault though they have a new guy at hardware they are just playing the same game they have for years. time to think different for the hardware division. Software guys are doing Great! Hardware guys are stumbling around all the darn time.

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Also I have read a few posts about "you can't get an equal Pc for the price"
I have had to price out a dual AMD for a print server.

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but why do you need so much horse power for a print server?

 

[hotwire132002]

Maybe I'm just ignorant, but why do you need so much horse power for a print server?

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[thatwendigo]

That system is just $1899 and has a 128mb 9800 Pro

Actually, that system is $1,999 and gets the crap kicked out of it by the mid-level mac as it exists in the basic configuration. It also completely lacks the $200-300 in software you need to mac Windows remotely equal to OS X in features and security.

in my opinion
and before you start wendingo i am intitled to one and it is as valid as yours

You are entitled to your opinion, but I wish that this silly notion that all opinions are equally as valid would be eradicated. By that notion, there would never, ever be any basis for defending yourself or going to war. After all, everyone in the world has a right to their opinion and it's worth as much as anyone else's, so you're breaking someone's right to have an opinion if you try to stop them from something.

Someone believing that the earth is flat does not make it so, and their opinion is worthless.

So my point is, whilst the graphics card maybe more than adequate now, it may not be for the latest incarnation of Mac OS in 5 or 6 years time, and the fact that we are paying so much for a computer, i believe we should be getting the cutting edge graphics cards, which will be "good" for a longer period of time, instead of getting ones which are already slightly dated

You know what was being sold 5 years ago?

G3 Blue and White
300/350/400mhz IBM PowerPC 750
100mhz bus
64/64/128MB PC100 (expandable to 1GB)
ATI Rage 128 16MB
6 or 12GB ATA 100 or 9GB Ultra2 SCSI
24x CD-ROM, DVD-ROM optional
Zip drive optional
4 PCI, one taken for video card
56k modem optional
2 FireWire 400
2 USB 1.0
1 ADB
10/100 Ethernet

Cost: $1,599, $1,999, $2,999

G5 Current Models
1.8/2.0/2.5ghz IBM PowerPC 970 (FX on the 2.5)
0.9/1.0/1.25ghz bus
256/512/512MB PC3200 (expandable to 4GB on lowend, 8GB on other two)
GeForceFX 5200/GeForceFX 5200/Radeon 9600XT (9600XT and 9800XT available on all models)
80/160/160GB SATA 150
8x Superdrive across the line (Combo downgrade optional)
3 PCI/3 PCI-X/3 PCI-X
56k modem
2 FireWire 400
1 FireWire 800
3 USB 2.0
10/100/1000 Ethernet
Airport Extreme connecter and Antenna

Cost: $1,999/$2,499/$2,999

So, you get double processor and a lot more modern technology, with an ever-expanding feature set. What the hell are you talking about? I wouldn't try to run OS X on a Blue and White without seriously upgrading it, and I don't think you'd want to try to run an OS on a 5 year old machine in any case.

Anyway, I don't agree at all, as Apple computers are (except for the case) made up out of exactly the same components as PC's, be it with different drivers (which cost money to develop too, I admit).

I'm going to pretend that you know what you're talking about for a momentt, and let you explain that further. There are a LOT of parts of the PowerMac that aren't commoditized - processor, motherboard, U3, ATI and nVidia cards only (no board partner parts) with specialized connectors, and cooling system control.

In case you weren't aware, motherboard manufacturers exist in a sphere with tiny, tiny profit margins. Apple does all their own development on this front, and that has to be ridiculously expensive when you consider how they tend to stay on top of the current advanced technology. There are notable exceptions to this trend (like PC100 and 133 RAM being used for so long), but it's a good basic principle.

So... What components are "the same," other than the HDs and RAM?

Also I have read a few posts about "you can't get an equal Pc for the price"
I have had to price out a dual AMD for a print server.
MS Windows XP Pro $212
Thermaltake Xaser V Damier w/ 420W PSU $248
LG 4082B 8X DVD+/-R / 4X DVD+/-RW Black $116
Opteron 246 2.0 GHz RETAIL Box $689
Opteron 246 2.0 GHz RETAIL Box $689
Maxtor 160GB w/ 8MB cache $149
Logitech Cordless MX Duo $95
M SI K8T Master2 FAR K8T800, Dual CPU $315
PC3200 DDR400 512MBx2 CAS2.5 (OCZ4001024PDC-K) $339
MSI GeForce FX5200-TD128 128MB DDR w/ TV-Out $89
Total =$2937
Not to start a flame because we all know the Mac OS is much, much better. But at a hardware level this machine is faster, yes faster then the 2 gig mac and about $600 cheaper. Remember Apple likes to compare there sytems to Intel and not the 64 bit AMD. Now "if" I had the money I would buy the mac but I have seen people time and time again go for the cheaper product.Also if your a UNIX user and not interested in all the "extra" stuff you get with OS X what are you going to chose.

Oh, wow... Someone's pulled out an Opteron system that costs as much as the 2.5ghz G5 in parts alone. If that thing were built by anyone with a profit margin, it would roll you back about another $300-400 at the least, putting it well over the G5's cost, and I don't buy that the hardware is so amazingly much faster. Why not? Because the Opteron is better at some things, worse at others, just as the G5 is better at some and worse at others. Also, you're going to need about $200-300 in software to equal OS X on features and security, so that rachets things even more... Tsk.

To echo jragosta:
Slower clock, no SATA, no optical drive, crappier graphics.

However, he's wrong on a few things. The K8T800 chipset motherboards are using 1600mhz Hypertransport, which Apple doesn't make full utilization of yet. Actually, wait... That's all he's wrong about.

No surprise, G5 didnt sell as fast as Apple had thought they would and they have even said so, so that means a lot of 1.8, 2.0 G5s laying around along with Sorry FX5200s to get rid of.

There's also no surprise that DHM has completely failed to realize that Apple has taken giant steps to do what he's been screaming about for some time. You can get any HD or graphics card the offer across the Pro line now, and they're all rock-solid machines with dual processors. Maybe that's why he changed his signature to stop complaining about choice?

Think about G4, How many boatloads of those did they buy? Still selling 1.25 G4s in Powermacs and i bet you they bought those G4s a long long time ago.

The G4 is still in production, so there's no reason at all to believe that these are just some warehouse clearing measure. In fact, Apple has been adopting the newer G4s when they show up, especially in the PowerBooks (7455 to 7447 to 7447A, anyone?).

Apples model buys quantities upfront iam convinced, not like some Pc makers who can change componets as soon as available or anytime they want. This is their own fault though they have a new guy at hardware they are just playing the same game they have for years.

Um... right.

I'm sure that PC OEMs aren't buying lots of parts and using those. They have a magical box that gives them the new parts as soon as they're out, but which swallows and does away with the older ones that so obviously don't show up in their models for a long, long time. I mean, Dell doesn't use Intel Extreme or GeForce FX 5200... Oh, wait. Okay, so the Pentium 4 2.8s are going to be gone from every... No, that's not true. I've got it! Those 40 GB HDs are old news, right so nobody... Crap, that doesn't work, either.

Do some research before you mouth off, DHM.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

The research is in Apples numbers thatwendigo, your spinning things. just admit it Apple buys all this stuff up front and if it takes them a year and half to get rid then so be it, hence the lame update we just saw after 1 year.

 

[jragosta]

The research is in Apples numbers thatwendigo, your spinning things. just admit it Apple buys all this stuff up front and if it takes them a year and half to get rid then so be it, hence the lame update we just saw after 1 year.

A year and a half? Total nonsense like most of what you post here.

Start by learning to read a 10K statement. (you'll probably have to learn what a 10K statement _is_ first). Apple has explained what their inventory levels are - and you can figure most of them out for yourself.

At the end of the last quarter (which means you need the 10Q, not the 10K), they had 4 DAYS of inventory. 4 DAYS.

You were off by a factor of more than 100.

PLEASE educate yourself on topics before spewing nonsense.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

A year and a half? Total nonsense like most of what you post here.

Start by learning to read a 10K statement. (you'll probably have to learn what a 10K statement _is_ first). Apple has explained what their inventory levels are - and you can figure most of them out for yourself.

At the end of the last quarter (which means you need the 10Q, not the 10K), they had 4 DAYS of inventory. 4 DAYS.

You were off by a factor of more than 100.

PLEASE educate yourself on topics before spewing nonsense.

Nonsense was these updates , come on just look at the machines,fx 5200, 1.8 last time around was more computer then 1.8 now, technology doesnt work that way. Just go look in the real world and you will see X800s 6800s you can buy now along with single Fx-53s that match and exceed dual 2.0 G5s( I think jragosta needs a subscription to MacWorld or Macaddict Magazine to educate himself. Apple is still selling 970s in the machines except for the top end. now let me ask you where did those chips between 2.0 and 2.5 go? Apple either made a deal so sell x amount of that or they have a warehouse full of old G4s and G5s to get rid of.

 

[zimv20]

Apple buys all this stuff up front and if it takes them a year and half to get rid then so be it, hence the lame update we just saw after 1 year.

one of the big, business efficiency gains in the 90s was just-in-time acquisition. it costs money to warehouse stock and manufacturers tend not to do that anymore.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

one of the big, business efficiency gains in the 90s was just-in-time acquisition. it costs money to warehouse stock and manufacturers tend not to do that anymore.

I agree but i dont think apple is adhering to this,If so i could order a single 2.5 to suite me. If you look at most Pc makers its configure what suites you.with our beloved Mac its this is what we are giving you take it our leave it. This is why i think they have a warehouse full of chips or are just screwing up.

 

[taco]

any reason not to get a refurbed dual 1.8 for $1799?

hello,

i'm about to place an order for a refurbed dual 1.8 powermac for $1799- is there any good reason why i shouldn't? i understand that the video card is slower than what i can get on the BTO 1.8, but that's not too important to me; i don't play games and i can always upgrade. i am also kind of bummed that i can't add the bluetooth module to the order, but i guess i can learn to live with the adapter that comes with logitech mouse i plan to purchase.

i'm primarily getting the machine for final cut pro, garage band and web surfing/office/etc. i was going to wait for the new 20" imac but who knows if that'll be a g5 (everything now seems to indicate that it won't) and even if it is, it will be crippled, single processor, non-upgradeable and certainly a lower clock speed than 1.8GHz. i was/am hoping to spend around $2500 total and with my educational discount and current imac 20" pricing, i'd come in at just over $2200 for a fully equipped imac, assuming that the g5 imac pricing stays the same as the g4, which i'm pretty sure it will not. so, purchasing the refurbed g5 dual 1.8 ($1799) and a new 20" flat panel display (i'll wait till the new ones are announced, hope the pricing is the same or less) at $1169 w/ my educational discount makes the refurbed dual g5 purchase about $768 more than the imac 20".

what do you think?

thanks!

 

[eric_n_dfw]

Overall, I would say that it does appear that things have gone "horribly wrong."

I'd agree that things have gone wrong, but we've known that since the G5 XServes came out. I'll refrain from the "horribly" adjective until the end of the year if we're still seeing 2.5's as the best IBM can provide us.

 

[iriejedi]

No that is just a super card

you have to pay for the ethernet card???

No it comes with regular gig ethernet 10/100/1000 port - I fell for that but since changed my order.

THat would be for a mega network thing now for a cable modem or other normal network issues

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

hello,

i'm about to place an order for a refurbed dual 1.8 powermac for $1799- is there any good reason why i shouldn't? i understand that the video card is slower than what i can get on the BTO 1.8, but that's not too important to me; i don't play games and i can always upgrade. i am also kind of bummed that i can't add the bluetooth module to the order, but i guess i can learn to live with the adapter that comes with logitech mouse i plan to purchase.

i'm primarily getting the machine for final cut pro, garage band and web surfing/office/etc. i was going to wait for the new 20" imac but who knows if that'll be a g5 (everything now seems to indicate that it won't) and even if it is, it will be crippled, single processor, non-upgradeable and certainly a lower clock speed than 1.8GHz. i was/am hoping to spend around $2500 total and with my educational discount and current imac 20" pricing, i'd come in at just over $2200 for a fully equipped imac, assuming that the g5 imac pricing stays the same as the g4, which i'm pretty sure it will not. so, purchasing the refurbed g5 dual 1.8 ($1799) and a new 20" flat panel display (i'll wait till the new ones are announced, hope the pricing is the same or less) at $1169 w/ my educational discount makes the refurbed dual g5 purchase about $768 more than the imac 20".

what do you think?

thanks!

Go for it , sounds like you have thought it out.

 

[tibor]

1.8 last time around was more computer then 1.8 now, technology doesnt work that way.

What exactly is it about selling for 20% less that you people don't understand? It is not a lesser machine selling for the same price - it's a lesser machine selling for far less money.

How many people who would buy this machine have a real need for PCI-X cards? Especially since anyone who follows this knows PCI-X is on the outs in PCI Express is the next generation? How many people who would buy this machine have a need for > 4 GB of RAM? Not me, which is why I picked one up. I'll take the 20% off for removing features I DON'T NEED, thank you very much.