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Apple Releases New PowerMacs

Rincewind42 said:
Why do people think that ADC is holding us back on video cards anyway? Apple makes the video cards that use nVidia chips (because nVidia doesn't make video cards themselves) and ATi even sells ADC equipped Mac edition cards.

But the reality is that in order to make a video card for the Mac, you have to make it talk to Open Firmware. This means that an engineer (someone who makes say $70K a year) has to write code that talks to the Mac's ROM. This takes time and effort, and while it's a one-time cost for any single video card, it's one that the card maker has to put up front and hope they make enough money on the card to recoup the cost.

An ADC connector and all the incumbent circuitry for it probably costs a grand total of $5 per card over a DVI or VGA connector. There are setup costs for the manufacturing too, but that is the case for any new circuit board design. But since the ADC style card design is something that Apple's been producing for some 5 years now, all of those costs have long since been recouped. And the extra fabrication cost can be passed on to the customer on a 1:1 basis.

So the REAL issue holding back new video cards is the fact that Macs don't use a PC BIOS, not that the cards have an ADC connector. Do you want to scream at Apple that they don't use the "standard" PC BIOS but chose Open Firmware instead? No? Didn't think so.
Click to expand...

The issue is not that it is hard to make Mac versions, its the fact that manufacturers have to essentially do a second production run for what is basically a small market. If Macs had better interoperability then the manufacturers could just do one huge run, and supply a mac driver and a pc driver. And Apple don't manufacture the card, they contract that out.
 
HiRez said:
I agree with you, Jocknerd, dual 2.5 GHz is not bad at all (if not staggeringly amazing), but the rest of the system looks quite stale. I'm disappointed. I have about $3,000 sitting in my bank account to spend on a new PowerMac, but I'll be waiting until at least the next real revision. These aren't terrible machines, but they just don't seem like that magical syzygy of power, cutting-edge features, stability, and price that gets me to lay out that kind of cash. Oh well, back into hibernation...
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This was the Rev. B speed bump a lot of people were expecting, sort of late due to the 90nm problems.

Hopefully these are the last of the ADC machines, it would be nice to see the DVI monitors show up so we can have a smoother transition to the PCI-e machines during the next major platform revision.

Though if you think about it, with the 970/970FX being used in such large numbers by other computer makers along with the CPX925 (Uni-N3 Controller) and others buying into similar technologies to build their own controller, that they probably had an idea that the current status quo would be around for quite awhile (no spiffy FSB changes, NUMA architecture with integrated memory controllers, ect.) and expected quite a bit of the new stuff in the pipe to plug and play with the current controller.

Of course the good thing about the System Controller being used by other computer makers is Apple is likely to ditch it sooner than they normally would, so it's still within the realm of possibility we may get a decent architecture revision in San Fran as the current controller continues to be used in other systems for quite awhile.
 
Apple must be having a laugh...

256MB in a Pro machine!!!??

The 2.5Ghz is OK, shame about the graphics card... OK you do get an option, but you have to go digging... Apple should have presented a forth PM with the 9800.

PMs, Airport Lite thing... makes you wonder, apart from Tiger just what is going to be in store for WWDC..
 
Hmm, Ok but not the best update.

But there remains a big question !!!!
What a kind of G5 PowerMac was that one in the Service Foto at appleinsider.com ???

1. Thats the 3GHz G5 which Steve will announce at WWDC with shipping in 3 Months.

2. Its a not released line based on the 970fx and the 975 from 2.xx to 3.00GHz. And they dont released it because of the production Problems from IBM.

Does anybody now if this 2.5GHz G5 is a 970fx ? It could be a overclocked 970 thats because he is the only modell with a liquid system !!! Think of that.

That would also mean that IBM has big Problems to produce fast and enough Chips.

And always think on the Service Foto of a G5 which does not exist right now !
 
Aussie Prices WTF!!

While i'm in a ranting mood. How about the price in Australia!?! What's going on with that. There's a $1,000 mark up AFTER the currency exchange on a RETAIL price! This is a joke. Surely I can get one from the states to Australia for less than $1,000. And I'm sure Apple australia can get them wholesale and in bulk, why the massive mark up? :confused:
 
Rincewind42 said:
Why do people think that ADC is holding us back on video cards anyway? Apple makes the video cards that use nVidia chips (because nVidia doesn't make video cards themselves) and ATi even sells ADC equipped Mac edition cards.

But the reality is that in order to make a video card for the Mac, you have to make it talk to Open Firmware. This means that an engineer (someone who makes say $70K a year) has to write code that talks to the Mac's ROM. This takes time and effort, and while it's a one-time cost for any single video card, it's one that the card maker has to put up front and hope they make enough money on the card to recoup the cost.

An ADC connector and all the incumbent circuitry for it probably costs a grand total of $5 per card over a DVI or VGA connector. There are setup costs for the manufacturing too, but that is the case for any new circuit board design. But since the ADC style card design is something that Apple's been producing for some 5 years now, all of those costs have long since been recouped. And the extra fabrication cost can be passed on to the customer on a 1:1 basis.

So the REAL issue holding back new video cards is the fact that Macs don't use a PC BIOS, not that the cards have an ADC connector. Do you want to scream at Apple that they don't use the "standard" PC BIOS but chose Open Firmware instead? No? Didn't think so.
Click to expand...
That explains the video cards then. I have a 17" G4 iMac (with an nVidia 5200 64 MB VRAM graphics card in it), and I've found that the performance is GREAT on RealMyst, at least compared to the ATI Mobility Radeon with 16 MB of VRAM in the PowerBook I had. I am in a quadrupling trend for Mac video card RAM upgrades (I started out with an Apple IIgs with 1 MB VRAM, then I went to a PowerMac 7200/75 with 4MB VRAM, then a PowerBook G4 667 with 16 MB VRAM, now a 1.25 GHz 17" G4 iMac with 64 MB of VRAM. After that, I'm going to get a computer that has 256 MB VRAM.)
 
the silver fox said:
Ummm... Have you not used FCP HD or DVD Studio Pro 3. Seen Motion lately? This year has sucked? Helllooooo?!?

:confused:
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yeah, those apps are really sweet and i applaud apple for putting them out. on the other hand, i'll probably never actually use them.

i was focussing more on the grand gestures that never were carried out the way they were envisioned as being kind of disappointing this year. honestly, i'll only be truly satisfied when ical always displays the correct date on the app icon without having to open it up after a restart. i hate always thinking it's the 17th after i install a security update. :)
 
I hope IBM gets back on track and we don't have to wait till next summer for a lineup that looks like,,,

dual 2.0ghz
dual 2.5ghz
dual 3.0ghz

[/sarcasm]

it is a bit of a lame update, but I would love to get my hands on one of the dual 2.5s. (insert diabolic laugh here)
 
Stella said:
PMs, Airport Lite thing... makes you wonder, apart from Tiger just what is going to be in store for WWDC..
Click to expand...

People should remember that WWDC is not a "consumer" show....

Aside from last year, Apple doesn't usually release products at it.
 
Ozi said:
well with powerfull CPUs (ie 2x2.5 G5s) that can pump out lots and lots of polygons per second, you need a GPU to be able to handle it. By putting an outdated GPU in the new G5s, it would look on paper like they will be inadequate. Also, people doing "pure 2D work" will buy just the 1.8 G5s or even just iMacs... The point is that a top end computer should have a top end GPU.The 9800XT is good, but it isnt the best. And I always expect the best from Apple.

~ozi
Click to expand...


I thought the whole point about it being purely 2D is that I don't need to worry about 'lots of polygons'. I have assumed, maybe incorrectly, that programs such as Photoshop are extremely processor intensive. Once you have a graphics card that is capable of taking the load off the CPU in terms of refreshing the screen etc. then anything else is excess.

You are right in that an expensive computer should have the best parts available but running a retouching business, really what I need is pure CPU grunt. There is no way I would consider buying a 1.8G5, time is money!

Whookam
 
This is probably nothing, but there's something on the back of the G5 in the QTVR.

wtfg5.jpg
 
updates..

Well some updates are better than no updates. Although I can't believe Apple did not upgrade the graphics cards as well :-x Most of these cards should no longer be on 'pro hardware' or even priced as they are. The update wouldn't be as bad if Apple had new cards, but bah. Oh well, hopefully we'll hit 3GHz by '06.
 
Macrumors said:
Apple has released the new PowerMac G5 revisions.

The new machines are as follows:

Dual 1.8GHz - $1999
Dual 2.0GHz - $2499
Dual 2.5GHz - $2999
Click to expand...

Did anyone notice you can still downgrade the optical drive to a combo drive? For those of us that are price conscious, that might be a good option. I'd rather upgrade the video to the ATI 9600 and up the RAM to 512 MB for about the same price . . . after you drop that silly 56k modem. A dual CPU system with good subsystem components (and upgradeable) for $1995 USD isn't too bad at all.

Of course, I'll still have to wait for the new iMac line to determine what I think the best buy is. Regardless, I'm buying a new Apple desktop in the next 3 weeks. :D
 
Good news for current PM owners

As far as I can tell, this update is great news for current dual processor Power Mac owners. Those with the old dual 2GHz models can feel reassured that even after a year, their machines are still reasonably cutting edge. Dual 1.8Ghz owners must be laughing - their old machines are actually superior to the current 1.8Ghz offerings!

Sometimes, being a Mac user is a little embarrasing.
 
Disappointed...

Hi All

That's my first post on the forum (just registered). I'm not a Mac owner yet but I was waiting for the updated G5 and I must say I'm disappointed by the graphics cards... It sticks out like a sore thumb. They could have put 1Gb or Ram, 250Gb HD and bluetooth as standard.

Here in the UK:
UK Online Store
 
These cards were more than capable when they were the latest and greatest - in fact I bet the very same people who are complaining about them now are the ones who lauded them when they first appeared. Do pros - yes you know, people who use their Macs for work, not playing games, need uber-schnitz 3D cards ? Probably not. They are mostly just pushing pixels around just like they were last year...

And if you are really considering spending 3K on a Mac for gaming - well, you need head surgery. I've got an XBox - it cost me £150, sits under the TV, plays games online and has a wider selection of games available than the Mac. One hundred and fifty quid - that's less than one of these video cards alone.
 
MrSugar said:
I am excited, mainly just to finaly be getting a powermac!

New pmac is on its way, Dual 1.8, 9600XT, 1.25 gig memory (crucial of course), BT and AE, 280g HD (160 and 120 SATA)

... guess I decided 2ghz, PCI-X, and 4g of ram slots wasn't worth the extra $550 or so.
Click to expand...

Good for you dude. I have had a dually since October and it is simply a great computer. Enjoy!
 
Village Idiot said:
I've been holding off for 6 months to get a G5, as I have been burned on my last 2 mac purchases. Bought a 15" iMac and 2 weeks later the 17" came out. Then a 15" powerbook one month later a 17 incher comes out.
So finally I think I'm playing my cards right and for once I wouldn't have been any worse off than if I bought the dual 2Ghz a year ago!

This revision is totally sh*te. Not because of the speeds, but the lack of other features. Why only one FW 800 port? Same Hard Drive space, Last years graphics cards. What about a dual layer DVD burner option? I want this for HD video editing and I bet if I fork out for this now, the new 3Ghz with slick graphics card for the 30" screen will be out in September. I can't win. Think I may as well hold off until a real upgrade.

Any other editors feel the same? :mad:
Click to expand...

sorry, but is your goal to have the fastest computer or to do video editing? you can't do video editing on a computer you don't have.

just get one and get going.
 
Euro conversion better now

Village Idiot said:
While i'm in a ranting mood. How about the price in Australia!?! What's going on with that. There's a $1,000 mark up AFTER the currency exchange on a RETAIL price! This is a joke.
Click to expand...

If I've done my math right, I found the opposite in relation to the Euro (in Germany). If I'd bought a Dual 1.8 yesterday the markup was about 654 Euros, today it's only a 256 Euro difference, so the markup dropped by half. I'm still rechecking my numbers though.
 
Hmm, Ok but not the best update.

But there remains a big question !!!!
What a kind of G5 PowerMac was that one in the Service Foto at appleinsider.com ???

1. Thats the 3GHz G5 which Steve will announce at WWDC with shipping in 3 Months.

2. Its a not released line based on the 970fx and the 975 from 2.xx to 3.00GHz. And they dont released it because of the production Problems from IBM.

Does anybody now if this 2.5GHz G5 is a 970fx ? It could be a overclocked 970 thats because he is the only modell with a liquid system !!! Think of that.

That would also mean that IBM has big Problems to produce fast and enough Chips.

And always think on the Service Foto of a G5 which does not exist right now !
 
Oh well....looks like my PM G4 is safe for a bit longer. Yeah it's slower than the G5s but it will have to get a whole lot slower than the current machines for me to part with over £2000. Here's looking to Rev C?????????????
 
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