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Apple Releases the MacBook Pro
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AndyR said:Does the Apple Logo still light up on the lid when in use??? This IS important
I think that's one of those things that Apple simply would not change.
With (absolutely NO) apologies to George Lucas:AndyR said:Does the Apple Logo still light up on the lid when in use??? This IS important
Luke: The Light-up Apple?
Obiwan: The Light-up Apple is created by all Apple products: it binds us and penetrates us. It holds the galaxy together.
Waded through about 10 pages of this thread, then skipped here to the end. It seems that some people are never satisfied! What I loved are the "It's only 1.83 GHz, while there are 2 Ghz PC's out there, so I'll stick with my PB G4!" type comments.
I played with the new MacBook Pro for a bit yesterday at MWSF - it does look the same, so one loses out the "Wow" factor. But it could also be that Apple has decided to stick with a classic look. The Porsche 911 kept the same basic shape for how long?
As for the specs, all the griping about DVD DL seems nonsense to me - seems mainly for boot-legging DVDs. As for data BU, I always burn using DVD-SL 16x on my DL external drive - better speed of burning, lower cost, and a more widespread reading capability.
As has been mentioned, the ExpressCard 34 port is forward looking (just like USB and FW on previous Macs). Apple's trying to allow a machine that will address power users needs for 2006-2008, not from 2003. (Edit - note the standard supports 2.5 Gigabits / sec)
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodnews.asp?ID=538
My interest in the PB were also how it supported Aperture (the faster processor and much improved GPU should be of interest to those of us who need to use this app on the road). But of course it was not on the MBP, as it is not yet Universal.
Was also messing around a bit with Photoshop before I realized the same thing...
As for the battery life, the Apple rep mentioned that it is so early in the product's life (remember they aren't shipping until Feb, probably due to a limited supply of CPU's) that a lot of these things haven't been pinned down.
I suspect the computers might also ship with 10.4.5, with continued fine tuning to the new Intel OS issues before the final release.
All in all, a nice little box that should please those of us with saved $$ to spend and a hankering for speed!
I played with the new MacBook Pro for a bit yesterday at MWSF - it does look the same, so one loses out the "Wow" factor. But it could also be that Apple has decided to stick with a classic look. The Porsche 911 kept the same basic shape for how long?
As for the specs, all the griping about DVD DL seems nonsense to me - seems mainly for boot-legging DVDs. As for data BU, I always burn using DVD-SL 16x on my DL external drive - better speed of burning, lower cost, and a more widespread reading capability.
As has been mentioned, the ExpressCard 34 port is forward looking (just like USB and FW on previous Macs). Apple's trying to allow a machine that will address power users needs for 2006-2008, not from 2003. (Edit - note the standard supports 2.5 Gigabits / sec)
http://www.tycoelectronics.com/prodnews.asp?ID=538
My interest in the PB were also how it supported Aperture (the faster processor and much improved GPU should be of interest to those of us who need to use this app on the road). But of course it was not on the MBP, as it is not yet Universal.
Was also messing around a bit with Photoshop before I realized the same thing...
As for the battery life, the Apple rep mentioned that it is so early in the product's life (remember they aren't shipping until Feb, probably due to a limited supply of CPU's) that a lot of these things haven't been pinned down.
I suspect the computers might also ship with 10.4.5, with continued fine tuning to the new Intel OS issues before the final release.
All in all, a nice little box that should please those of us with saved $$ to spend and a hankering for speed!
Frobozz said:
Not true at all. My new G4 PB 17" easily gets 5 - 6 hours on a battery charge and I don't use power saving features also keep my screen at near full brightness.
I can easily play 3.5 hour movies on DVD without a battery recharge.
Don't go spreading FUD. The new G4 PB do very well on battery life.
Apple giveth & taketh away - No modem, no firewire 800 & no S-Video port.
Obviously the speed of the new system is nice but Apple took away some very useful items on this laptop.
1. No built in modem. Granted I didn't use the modem much - but often when traveling this comes in very useful.
2. No firewire 800. I use this port. For people who do professional audio it is recommended to use one firewire port for the hard drive and the other for the audio interface. Daisychaining the firewire will work but is known to cause problems and is slower.
3. No S-Video port. Want to connect your laptop to your TV - well no longer. This is really disappointing. I used this feature often to play DVD's through my TV.
4. No new USB 2.0 ports. 2 USB ports is not enough. Most PC laptops have 3 now. If Apple want's to have the Gold standard of laptops they need to add more ports. If you use Apple's Logic Pro you will need 1 USB port for the dongle, typically one for a USB music keyboard. Your audio interface will either be firewire or USB. You will need either an extra firewire or usb port for an external hard drive. Basically, professional users run out of ports very quickly. Forget about plugging your new iPod in or your USB thumbdrive to transfer files quickly. Steve - if you are reading this - add another USB port and a 2nd firewire port - we need this stuff!!!
Professionals need more ports built into the laptop for portability purposes. We don't want to buy tons of accessories (usb, firewire hubs) that we need to carry around. I hope in the future this will change.
Obviously the speed of the new system is nice but Apple took away some very useful items on this laptop.
1. No built in modem. Granted I didn't use the modem much - but often when traveling this comes in very useful.
2. No firewire 800. I use this port. For people who do professional audio it is recommended to use one firewire port for the hard drive and the other for the audio interface. Daisychaining the firewire will work but is known to cause problems and is slower.
3. No S-Video port. Want to connect your laptop to your TV - well no longer. This is really disappointing. I used this feature often to play DVD's through my TV.
4. No new USB 2.0 ports. 2 USB ports is not enough. Most PC laptops have 3 now. If Apple want's to have the Gold standard of laptops they need to add more ports. If you use Apple's Logic Pro you will need 1 USB port for the dongle, typically one for a USB music keyboard. Your audio interface will either be firewire or USB. You will need either an extra firewire or usb port for an external hard drive. Basically, professional users run out of ports very quickly. Forget about plugging your new iPod in or your USB thumbdrive to transfer files quickly. Steve - if you are reading this - add another USB port and a 2nd firewire port - we need this stuff!!!
Professionals need more ports built into the laptop for portability purposes. We don't want to buy tons of accessories (usb, firewire hubs) that we need to carry around. I hope in the future this will change.
boombashi said:I got the same config. What else is there to upgrade unless you want 2GBs of iRam
I think that model is actually a pretty good value over the entry considering
+ harddrive
+ ram
+ graphics card
+ processor
That drive is a REALLY popular upgrade
I did the same. Best $100 i've spent [hopfully]. The extra GB or RAM is still pricey [crucial.com has the same memory for $131]
rpm
Credit where due: on the 1GB MacBook, Apple did it with ONE module, leaving an open slot. They didn't cut cost by putting in two 512s and making you scrap one of them if you add RAM.
I'd pay more for a faster hard drive... but "rpm" is NOT the sole measue of HD speed. That's another MHz myth, really.
For instance, data packed more densely on the platter will be read more quickly at the SAME rpm than another drive.
So while I'm not doubting that the 7200 is faster, I'd really like to know how much faster--especially as it affects daily (not just huge file transfers)--and that 7200 number doesn't answer that for me.
Any info?
(PS, Am I the only one who repeatedly wonders what on earth MBP stands for?)
Credit where due: on the 1GB MacBook, Apple did it with ONE module, leaving an open slot.
They didn't cut cost by putting in two 512s and making you scrap one of them if you add RAM.That's a question I have too.nomad01 said:
I'd pay more for a faster hard drive... but "rpm" is NOT the sole measue of HD speed. That's another MHz myth, really.
For instance, data packed more densely on the platter will be read more quickly at the SAME rpm than another drive.
So while I'm not doubting that the 7200 is faster, I'd really like to know how much faster--especially as it affects daily (not just huge file transfers)--and that 7200 number doesn't answer that for me.
Any info?
(PS, Am I the only one who repeatedly wonders what on earth MBP stands for?)
nagromme said:Credit where due: on the 1GB MacBook, Apple did it with ONE module, leaving an open slot.
That's a question I have too.
I'd pay more for a faster hard drive... but "rpm" is NOT the sole measue of HD speed. That's another MHz myth, really.
For instance, data packed more densely on the platter will be read more quickly at the SAME rpm than another drive.
So while I'm not doubting that the 7200 is faster, I'd really like to know how much faster--especially as it affects daily (not just huge file transfers)--and that 7200 number doesn't answer that for me.
Any info?
(PS, Am I the only one who repeatedly wonders what on earth MBP stands for?)
I think as soon as there'll be the new HDs out with the new perpendicular recording then you'll have faster HDs already. 7200rpm DOES make a difference, particularly in starting up apps, working with larger files.
I for one would rather have a bigger HD than a faster one. It's not worlds.
resonator said:
of course it would be nice to have more ports built into the machine, but i guess the price and the quick development has it's disadvantages. something had to give.
but for your points:
#1) the few times i need a modem i always can bring the external modem.
#2) fire wire 400 is good enough for me. at home i can use a powered hub.
#3) big bummer. no more showing videos, pictures on tv. really bad.
#4) external displays have USB hubs anyway. for the few occasions i can use a hub.
I hope there will be solutions for the new ExpressCard/34 slot to provide s-video or additional fire wire ports. but that will be expensive.
In response to some negative comments from earlier in this thread.
REV A: sure it's a rev a, but like steve said, osX has been running on intel secretly for "years!" Its not like they just converted everything over at the last minute. I feel confident that the os will be stable because of that fact, and the similar form factor will make serious bugs highly unlikely.
BATTERY LIFE: according to the performance/watt chart during the presentation, the core duo has a score of 1.05 performance/watt, while the G4 has a 0.27 performance/watt. This is a 4x increase in performance/watt! So a if a G4 and a Core Duo were working on the same task at the same speed, the Duo would take less watts to complete the task in the same amount of time. So the Macbook should have a longer battery life (not 4x longer since drives, screen, etc. still take the same amount of power regardless of the processor.) Now with both cores operating at maximum performance (which is extremely rare for normal tasks) of course battery will delpete faster! Duh! For all you whiners out there, performance is not free, it takes POWER and there is no way around that. Greater performance requires more power. PERIOD. The only way around it is new battery technology, which Apple has no control over!
FW800: Firewire 800 is dead, face it. Its like the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war. Which every format wins, the other will fail, there is no second place (VHS vs Beta anyone?). USB won, live with it. The lack of many FW800 peripherals should demonstrate that. I use FW400 for ipod/ext. HD, FW800 for those things would be overkill as the drives wouldn't even be able to spin fast enough to keep up. Good job on keeping the FW400 port Apple, simply for the reason that an ext. USB HD isn't bootable and a FW one is.
DUAL LAYER DVDR: EXPENSIVE/UNNECCESSARY. Waste of money to use over 4.7GB discs. Their only real use is for bootlegging DVDs, be honest, how many of you were going to use it for just that! Sure I wouldn't complain having one, but I say if you can afford a Macbook, you can probably afford to buy movies without stealing them.
S-VIDEO: answer=adapter. Probably 10% of macbook owners will actually hook it up to a TV, why include a port and raise the cost if it won't be used by most people. Personally, I might hook mine up to the TV, but Apple can't cater to EVERYONE, "oh lets put a TV tuner in it too in case someone wants to watch TV on their computer!"
MORE USB PORTS: Lets put 127 USB ports in it so there is no chance in hell someone would need a hub. what is an ideal amount of ports i ask? If they put 3 on, someone would cry for 4...jeez use a hub.
I upgraded the drive as well to the 7200rpm, but I offset the cost by downgrading the 1GB RAM to 2x512. Feb. cannot come soon enough!!!!
REV A: sure it's a rev a, but like steve said, osX has been running on intel secretly for "years!" Its not like they just converted everything over at the last minute. I feel confident that the os will be stable because of that fact, and the similar form factor will make serious bugs highly unlikely.
BATTERY LIFE: according to the performance/watt chart during the presentation, the core duo has a score of 1.05 performance/watt, while the G4 has a 0.27 performance/watt. This is a 4x increase in performance/watt! So a if a G4 and a Core Duo were working on the same task at the same speed, the Duo would take less watts to complete the task in the same amount of time. So the Macbook should have a longer battery life (not 4x longer since drives, screen, etc. still take the same amount of power regardless of the processor.) Now with both cores operating at maximum performance (which is extremely rare for normal tasks) of course battery will delpete faster! Duh! For all you whiners out there, performance is not free, it takes POWER and there is no way around that. Greater performance requires more power. PERIOD. The only way around it is new battery technology, which Apple has no control over!
FW800: Firewire 800 is dead, face it. Its like the HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray war. Which every format wins, the other will fail, there is no second place (VHS vs Beta anyone?). USB won, live with it. The lack of many FW800 peripherals should demonstrate that. I use FW400 for ipod/ext. HD, FW800 for those things would be overkill as the drives wouldn't even be able to spin fast enough to keep up. Good job on keeping the FW400 port Apple, simply for the reason that an ext. USB HD isn't bootable and a FW one is.
DUAL LAYER DVDR: EXPENSIVE/UNNECCESSARY. Waste of money to use over 4.7GB discs. Their only real use is for bootlegging DVDs, be honest, how many of you were going to use it for just that! Sure I wouldn't complain having one, but I say if you can afford a Macbook, you can probably afford to buy movies without stealing them.
S-VIDEO: answer=adapter. Probably 10% of macbook owners will actually hook it up to a TV, why include a port and raise the cost if it won't be used by most people. Personally, I might hook mine up to the TV, but Apple can't cater to EVERYONE, "oh lets put a TV tuner in it too in case someone wants to watch TV on their computer!"
MORE USB PORTS: Lets put 127 USB ports in it so there is no chance in hell someone would need a hub. what is an ideal amount of ports i ask? If they put 3 on, someone would cry for 4...jeez use a hub.
ender78 said:That drive is a REALLY popular upgrade
I upgraded the drive as well to the 7200rpm, but I offset the cost by downgrading the 1GB RAM to 2x512. Feb. cannot come soon enough!!!!
While I agree with the lack of USB (i was hoping for 3 as well), I'm not so sure the dropping of FW 800 will be such a big deal in the long run.resonator said:
First, while I also have a ton of FW 800 devices, since no one has done real world tests on the ACTUAL machines we have no idea of Apple's implementation of FW 400 on the MB Pro. Since most transfer speeds fall far short of the theoretical speeds, Apple might have tightened up the FW 400 speeds with the new architecture.
But far more promising is the ExpressCard slot - here's a tech spec from a manufacturer:
"The Express Card host interface supports a PCI Express single lane (x1) operating at 2.5 Gigabits/second as defined by the PCI Express Base Specification and low, full, and high-speed USB as defined by the USB 2.0 Specification."
Apple may have decided to meet your need for high speed data transfer via this port. While this is a new standard and so there's not much currently available, it is likely that a year from now you'll be using a 100 GB /sec, 15,000 rpm drive connected through this port, and saying: "Why did I ever put up with that crappy FW800!"
CalfCanuck said:
Agreed about DL for data back-up. DL media is still more than twice the price, so it makes little sense for back-up purposes. of more concern is 4x vs 8x, which is a big deal when doing data back-up.
However if these are pro machines, they should still cater to pro users, who may actually have the need to burn DL DVDs. Having to tote around an external DVD burner kind of negates the advantage of having a laptop.
~Shard~ said:So, will this update finally silence all those PowerBook G5!!! whiners?
One of them it will.
Hey douchebags. Yeah, you, the whiner/complainer lamenting the arrival of a dual core notebook without dual layer DVD support, without support for booting into Windows XP. Go pick your nose or something, and go to your room and do your geometry homework.
I'll be the one laughing at you from the other side of my dualcore g5 2.3, while you're circling, again and again, reveling in your own fatuous tirades. You'll be the one waiting above, waiting until the next dual core comes out. Then the next dual dual core. Don't forget to pick your nose while you're at it.
HTH
I'll be the one laughing at you from the other side of my dualcore g5 2.3, while you're circling, again and again, reveling in your own fatuous tirades. You'll be the one waiting above, waiting until the next dual core comes out. Then the next dual dual core. Don't forget to pick your nose while you're at it.
HTH
here's One "solution" to the firewire issue although you have to use a separate power adapter to bus power anything. cardbus is alright. the more i think about it though, the more i am bothered by the fact that this extra bit of something to go wrong wasnt mandated before this upgrade. ee
i will wait till march either way...if ther are rumblings of a new powerbook by then (for summer) i will wait...but it looks like, having found this workaround, i will be able to use it for what i want.
i will wait till march either way...if ther are rumblings of a new powerbook by then (for summer) i will wait...but it looks like, having found this workaround, i will be able to use it for what i want.
so how would the macbook compare to the new intel imac now? say, a 1.8 w/ 7200 hd upgrade vs the 2.0 w/ 256mb X1600 upgrade. they should perform about the same, correct? 0.2 bump in processor speed on the imac and DL superdrive, but as for processor (again, aside from the 0.2 mhz dif) and RAM they are the same. graphics is almost the same as well, only the macbook has the mobile version. thoughts?
This is one area where you're definately wrong. Apple should have at least put another USB port on there to replace the FW800 that is gone. Having just 3 data ports (2 USB and 1 FW400) is hardly what I would call "Pro". Your average PC these days comes with at least 4 USB 2.0 ports. The lack of data ports on this model makes it feel less professional, like it couldn't meet all of your demands. Ask anyone on these boards, MacBook Pro could use another USB port.Di}{iE said:
That's using a cardbus, which is outdated and not available on the MacBook Pro. The new ExpressCard is on the MacBook Pro.Surreal said:
It's funny how Apple can remove a feature, replace it with one technically inferior and the change is praised
Like the replacing of a dual layer burner with a single layer. The opposite move being praised mere months ago on the power mac line.
Every move Apple makes, regardless of what it is, is praised by 99% of people here. That is just hilarious.
Steve is the farmer and you are the sheep. You have an Apple logo spray painted on your ass.
Thought it was a great keynote, very happy to hear the complete change over will be inside this year. Went and got a cup of tea while Steve was talking about all the new themes in iMovie etc zzzzz. Can't wait to see what the current power mac line will look like when it arrives. Definite cosmetic changes to look forward to there and it's this year!
Like the replacing of a dual layer burner with a single layer. The opposite move being praised mere months ago on the power mac line.
Every move Apple makes, regardless of what it is, is praised by 99% of people here. That is just hilarious.
Steve is the farmer and you are the sheep. You have an Apple logo spray painted on your ass.
Thought it was a great keynote, very happy to hear the complete change over will be inside this year. Went and got a cup of tea while Steve was talking about all the new themes in iMovie etc zzzzz.
Can't wait to see what the current power mac line will look like when it arrives. Definite cosmetic changes to look forward to there and it's this year!64 Bit?
Are the new IntelMacs 64 Bit ?
Sorry if this has already been asked but look at 37 pages is a bit much !
Are the new IntelMacs 64 Bit ?
Sorry if this has already been asked but look at 37 pages is a bit much !
geoffism said:
YES! I just looked. I have an "Estimated Shipped By" date of February 15th. I have expedited shipping, so based on past experiences I would expect it right around the 15th. My guess is that they will start getting out a couple the week prior to that. I'll certainly keep people updated.
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