Apple Removes Fortnite From App Store [Update: Epic Files Lawsuit Against Apple]

[Unregistered 4U]

You can’t treat different developers differently. The same rules must apply to everyone. Otherwise, this is unfair practices, for which Apple will have to pay dearly.

The same set of rules apply to everyone. Across the board. Epic didn’t like the rules.

And we DO know what preceded this, if anything. Epic wanted a better deal, Apple said “you get the same deal as all other developers under the rules of the App Store, no better, no worse.” End of discussion. The preparation of the video (which applies to Google just as much BUT which doesn’t mention Google at all) tells you everything you need to know about the target of what they’re doing. They know they’re in the wrong, they’ll eventually back down to get their app installed on all the new iPads/iPhones that will be sold this fall and folks will still complain about the 30% cut.

I would agree with you other than spotify is also paying royalties and removing the app would affect the artists as well. And that's another thing people don't take into account. Both Apple and spotify pay royalties so add the 30% to that for spotify and not Apple which does make it harder for spotify to thrive.

Seems like Spotify made poor business decisons right up front, then. I mean, when the money you’re making is not enough to pay the “cost of doing business”, then you walked into a bad business. However, if they ARE able to thrive, then... ok. fine. No harm, no foul.

 

[psingh01]

If Epic wins this and 3rd party app stores are allowed in iOS all of iOS’s security pretty much goes out the window. The App Store is there to protect consumers most of which aren’t overly tech savvy from the kind of virus and adware ridden crap apps that you find on Google’s platform. The official Play store has loads of problems with apps like this, and whilst the App Store isn’t always 100% perfect and some dodgy apps still slip through until Apple detect and remove them it’s still far safer than android.

Nothing stops a consumer from being responsible and avoiding other AppStore’s if they wish or using the same caution they would use on a computer.

 

[Ethosik]

It's called the Sherman Anti-Trust Act of 1890, and Apple/Google/Amazon etc have been flouting it for the better part of the last decade (hence the recent Congressional hearings). Essentially, if Apple wants to operate a store, that's fine, but it has to allow other stores (or another means to install software) on iOS/iPadOS too. Or, Apple can ditch the App Store and third party apps and the law will no longer apply.

The government used the same law against Microsoft in the late 1990s, when they only permitted Internet Explorer by default. It's a pretty powerful law that prevents any sort of monopolies within a marketplace (and I think we'd all agree that the App Store is a marketplace).

They had smartphones in the 1890s? I don't think this law would apply to a concept of smartphones and digital environment.

 

[psingh01]

The same way Apple has a monopoly on the Apple Store, Epic Games has a monopoly on Epic Games’ Fortnite. As has been mentioned here time and time again, the MOMENT that Apple started selling Apps they had an unfair monopoly on the Apple Store that they created. So too does Epic Games has a monopoly on the store in Fortnite.

The solution is clear, Epic Games needs to be broken up so that anyone can make and sell content in Fortnite. That is the ONLY solution

This is a ridiculous argument This line of thinking is why companies can get away with what they do at the expense of consumers.

 

[the8thark]

Can you call yourself an aggrieved party if your complaint is based on the results of you knowingly breaking the rules?

 

[Scipster]

They had smartphones in the 1890s? I don't think this law would apply to a concept of smartphones and digital environment.

Oddly enough, the US Constitution was written in 1789, and yet it still applies today -- even if the times have changed.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Looks like Google and Apple are on the same side, when is the last time you saw that happen?

Google just booted them; play store like is Not Found.

Epic are directing folks to the Samsung store. I’m sure Samsung will keep it up

Essentially, if Apple wants to operate a store, that's fine, but it has to allow other stores (or another means to install software) on iOS/iPadOS too. Or, Apple can ditch the App Store and third party apps and the law will no longer apply.

If Epic Games wants to operate a store in Fortnite, that’s fine, but they have to allow other stores (or another means to install content) in there as well. OR, Fortnite can ditch the purchases and the law will no longer apply.

 

[4jasontv]

It's not special treatment, it's what the law requires. If Apple doesn't like US laws, it can cease operations in the US. What makes this so high stakes is that if Epic wins, it can open Apple up to felony charges per section 2 of the Sherman Anti-Trust act.

What is the nonsense?

 

[Anox]

It’s never been about right or wrong but about control and who ultimately ends up with it.

I want Apple to take the wheel if I wanted an open experience I would’ve chose android or something else...

 

[Unregistered 4U]

This is a ridiculous argument This line of thinking is why companies can get away with what they do at the expense of consumers.

Yet, this ridiculous argument and line of thinking is what’s used to define a Apple having a Monopoly on a thing they created. Like, day one of the App Store, it was a Monopoly. Makes sense, yes?

 

[pal2002]

Bravo Epic! About time someone fought back against Apple's RIDICULOUS 30% commission for developer's hard work.

Book publishers print books for authors and don't even charge that kind of commission. Apple literally just hosts a download.

 

[Scipster]

If Epic Games wants to operate a store in Fortnite, that’s fine, but they have to allow other stores (or another means to install content) in there as well. OR, Fortnite can ditch the purchases and the law will no longer apply.

You can see my previous post on this. Essentially, in-game stores do not meet the legal thresholds for marketplaces, which is what the Federal government regulates. For it to apply, Fortnite would have to allow players to send real currency - not virtual currency - to each other other, and the goods and services being traded would need to meet the requirements of the USTPO, which in-game content does not (it's considered a part of the game). In additional, Epic would have to report transactions to the government so the individuals can be taxed accordingly.

What is the nonsense?

While the Sherman Anti-Trust Act is mainly a civil law, it can be used in criminal law as well. Certain actions are classified as felonies, which Epic is alleging Apple has committed. It's up to the Department of Justice to formally charge Apple, but it's happened before (United States v. Apple Inc., 2013). If Epic wins, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple settles with DOJ.

 

[DarthJarJar]

The same set of rules apply to everyone. Across the board. Epic didn’t like the rules.

And we DO know what preceded this, if anything. Epic wanted a better deal, Apple said “you get the same deal as all other developers under the rules of the App Store, no better, no worse.” End of discussion. The preparation of the video (which applies to Google just as much BUT which doesn’t mention Google at all) tells you everything you need to know about the target of what they’re doing. They know they’re in the wrong, they’ll eventually back down to get their app installed on all the new iPads/iPhones that will be sold this fall and folks will still complain about the 30% cut.

Seems like Spotify made poor business decisons right up front, then. I mean, when the money you’re making is not enough to pay the “cost of doing business”, then you walked into a bad business. However, if they ARE able to thrive, then... ok. fine. No harm, no foul.

False. Apple does not apply their rules equally. Apple allows amazon to sell movies via their prime app without a 30% cut.

 

[Devie]

I don’t care for fortnite at all but using their own ad against them is brilliant.
I’m honestly getting sick of the apples walled garden. Pains me to say it.

My negativity kicked off with Microsoft’s xcloud being banned. I can’t imagine myself using it that much on my phone, but knowing I’m not allowed to even on a service I pay for (I have game pass ultimate), which I am allowed to on a platform I’ve been very against... really irks me. Might end up with an Android.
Then I find out that Linus’ tech tips Floatplane is basically banned from the App Store. I’m not interested in floatplane, but again it irks me.

apples strategy on the App Store is dated.

MacOS isn’t affected much... yet. That’s my fear, with Apple silicon will they also introduce more control over macOS?

 

[egrimo]

"I have the phone, I have rights to get software from anywhere but Apple Store".

No.

You buy any phone because they provide you a hardware and a software platform where they offer you many company and indie apps available. They don't have to have every app and they don't have to provide app support for you for a long time, indeed, on android side, you're getting cut of software support at 2 years and app support in 4-5 years where on Apple it's 5 years on software and 8-9 years of app support.

Apple Store is not same with Play Store

Apple's and Google's income source is different.

Play Console is weaker on app security than App Store (can easily confirm this as a mobile developer)

------------------ About this topic -----------------------

Epic has many customers from PC to iOS to Android. Their iOS users are most probably not much than others. You can think about it because they could be able to do this move so far. Apple's rules are clear. As a developer, you AGREED on them when you signup. While every rule can be discussed, with this move, your only point is to make your app banned on Store and playing the victim. You can't break the law if you want to change it. You discuss, make your voice bigger and support a discuss about it. Doing this will only make you become guilty.

Epic looses the lawsuit most probably and also will loose its iOS revenue for some time until they decide to come back.

 

[rwxx]

Because it’s not. Period.

It’s a radically different operating system. From it’s inception MacOS was built to be very open. iOS was designed with a totally different paradigm.

And MacOS isn’t “very secure”. One bad app can wreak havoc across the entire system. iOS was built to sandbox everything.

Except that iOS is not a radically different operating system. Furthermore, macOS is moving more and more in the direction of iOS where security is concerned. No, the reason they limit the ability to install apps on iOS to the App Store is to make money, first and foremost.

Apple could very easily allow downloading and installing third party apps from sources other than the App Store if they wanted to. It would be trivial. Don't pretend that iOS is so radically different that this isn't possible. It would be simple.

When it came to the Mac, Apple knew they couldn't force everyone (yet) to get apps from the App Store. Culturally it's too ingrained in us (especially those of us who are older) that we get apps for our "computers" from whatever store (brick and mortar or virtual) we want. But the iPhone was something different. It wasn't a "computer" in the traditional sense of the word. And Apple saw an opportunity and figured (correctly) that most people wouldn't resist the App Store model on the phone.

Just don't kid yourself. There's no technical reason whatsoever that Apple can't allow app downloads from other sources. They choose not to for a mix of financial reasons and security (which I do think is a somewhat legitimate argument).

 

[4jasontv]

While the Sherman Anti-Trust Act is mainly a civil law, it can be used in criminal law as well. Certain actions are classified as felonies, which Epic is alleging Apple has committed. It's up to the Department of Justice to formally charge Apple, but it's happened before (United States v. Apple, 2013). If Epic wins, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple settles with DOJ.

And what act can I use to sue Epic for danging my property by deceasing the value of my iOS devices?

And when Apple wins, how do I go about suing Epic for engaging in behavior that got their app removed and interrupted my use of content I paid for?

 

[Anox]

So, all the time I spent staring at the editor, all the time I spent banging my head against the desk, thinking how to solve the programming problems, how to implement this, how to connect this to that, all of that...belongs to Apple???

To my understanding not all and does not belong I am pretty sure Apple takes a cut of transaction it helps facilitate a business practice in existence for years
And that the developer retains rights to its creation...

 

[the8thark]

Bravo Epic! About time someone fought back against Apple's RIDICULOUS 30% commission for developer's hard work.

Book publishers print books for authors and don't even charge that kind of commission. Apple literally just hosts a download.

That 30% is a better deal than having your game physically on a store shelf like gamestop. Gamestop literally just hosts the physical game on their shelf too till it's bought.

 

[4jasontv]

So, all the time I spent staring at the editor, all the time I spent banging my head against the desk, thinking how to solve the programming problems, how to implement this, how to connect this to that, all of that...belongs to Apple???

Can you clarify? It sounds like you are trying to claim ownership of math and logic.

 

[sigsegv]

Yet, this ridiculous argument and line of thinking is what’s used to define a Apple having a Monopoly on a thing they created. Like, day one of the App Store, it was a Monopoly. Makes sense, yes?

Day 1 of the App Store - Apple had 0% market share in smartphones. Not a monopoly.

Today Apple and Google have 99.2% market share between them (Google slightly higher than Apple but roughly 50-50). *That* is when antitrust law kicks in; when you have a commanding share of a market and you make rules that shut out other options and extract inefficient margins. It's also not easy for consumers to switch due to all the lock-in effects on each side of the duopoly.

Antitrust law is nothing new. Only need to look back at all the credit card payment processing and lawsuits around exclusionary practices over the past few decades. Billions paid out in settlements.

 

[bryce13950]

I really hope epic wins. It would change iOS for the best forever.

 

[rwxx]

The very nature of allowing a user to download an app from a website, and launch it on their own is the definition of insecure. Download this update to your flash player that is 100% NOT from Adobe!

No, it's the definition of choice. Why should we all have our choices limited because some people are stupid or don't take the time to understand the product they purchased? Why is that MY problem? This is classic nanny state thinking. The individual can't be trusted to make good decisions, so some big bureaucracy is needed to protect us from ourselves.

 

[4jasontv]

No, it's the definition of choice. Why should we all have our choices limited because some people are stupid or don't take the time to understand the product they purchased? Why is that MY problem? This is classic nanny state thinking. The individual can't be trusted to make good decisions, so some big bureaucracy is needed to protect us from ourselves.

Insecure was correct.

 

[rwxx]

Insecure was correct.

Actually, they are both correct. Some people just want others to think for them. Some value thinking for themselves. Pretty simple.