Apple Removes Fortnite From App Store [Update: Epic Files Lawsuit Against Apple]

[Scipster]

And what act can I use to sue Epic for danging my property by deceasing the value of my iOS devices?

And when Apple wins, how do I go about suing Epic for engaging in behavior that got their app removed and interrupted my use of content I paid for?

You can likely pursue recourse in small claims court, but I would consult an attorney for professional legal advice.

 

[Anox]

We've been needing regulation on stuff like this for a while now. The EU is so far ahead of the US it's insane.

The whole "Apple's store, Apple's rules" would only be reasonable if Apple allowed you to run your own store or go somewhere else. "Just buy Android then" only works until you think about it for more than two seconds. Imagine if that were your car. "Don't want to buy Ford's super expensive tires and full maintenance plan? Just don't buy a Ford! Sell it and get a Chevy!"

Yeah, no. That childish gibberish doesn't work on anyone mature enough to know otherwise.

Given the release of the documents we've read -- it's pretty clear it's just pettiness on Apple's part and has absolutely --ZERO-- to do with making a better device or ecosystem. Anyone who says otherwise is factually incorrect.

This kind of talk kills innovation, creates bad business practices, and most definitely is selective, computers are infinitely more complex then cars and the way people utilize and think of computers can really be dangerous

 

[4jasontv]

Actually, they are both correct.

I choose a large scale platform that does not allow alternative methods of purchasing or running code not vetted by the device manufacture. Oh... wait. That would no longer be a choice.

The alternative is already an option with the largest mobile platform.

 

[jinnj]

Obviously they knew this would happen, I wonder why they've done it, perhaps to make a point as to how much Apple takes from each transaction? Like Steam.

Didn't know Steam took from transactions. Nintendo, Sony, MS Xbox and Google Play all have the same fees as Apple. AND restrictions! XCloud would work better on Switch than iPhones. Why not try it there MS?

 

[Lepton]

Golly guys, I like the app store! Back in the day, I wrote a popular app that sold in boxes in brick and mortar stores for $50. And I got $10 on a sale. A whole different thing than the App Store, you know, a distribution chain taking cuts, but 20% of MSRP was an _amazing_ deal, believe me.

App prices are much lower these days but I get 70% free and clear, and so much more. They handle crap like sales taxes, world wide access, easy as pie to buy, free publicity if you’re lucky, and... have you gotten a lot of malware lately? Thanks, Apple!

 

[philosopherdog]

My view is that Apple built their platform. However big tech is really squashing innovation. MS did it and now it’s google and Apple.

 

[garylapointe]

And now Google Play has pulled it for the same nonsense. https://www.macrumors.com/2020/08/13/google-pulls-fortnight/

 

[philosopherdog]

Agreed. Companies like Spotify who rip off artists are the last who should be complaining!

Golly guys, I like the app store! Back in the day, I wrote a popular app that sold in boxes in brick and mortar stores for $50. And I got $10 on a sale. A whole different thing than the App Store, you know, a distribution chain taking cuts, but 20% of MSRP was an _amazing_ deal, believe me.

App prices are much lower these days but I get 70% free and clear, and so much more. They handle crap like sales taxes, world wide access, easy as pie to buy, free publicity if you’re lucky, and... have you gotten a lot of malware lately? Thanks, Apple!

 

[5H3PH3RD]

Should it be a 30 percent cut though? I'm sure 5-10 percent is viable but at the end of the day, consumers/developers are paying Apple for the application itself which likely covers these costs.

not saying it should be 30 percent, that I totally understand is debatable and is Cost+ profit but it’s certainly not free.

 

[rwxx]

I choose a large scale platform that does not allow alternative methods of purchasing or running code not vetted by the device manufacture. Oh... wait. That would no longer be a choice.

The alternative is already an option with the largest mobile platform.

Which is totally irrelevant. Plenty has been said and written about Apple's anti-competitive practices and how they might run afoul of the law. Apple can still be engaged in anti-competitive practices within its market. The fact that Android exists doesn't change anything.

And vetted? Really? Is that why apps were clipboard snooping for who knows how long? Because Apple vetted the code? Lol. Is that why numerous apps on the App Store track and sell your data despite all of Apple's privacy talk? Do you honestly believe they are reviewing code? Do you think they spend the time trying every app feature and checking all network traffic the app generates? If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[jinnj]

No, it's the definition of choice. Why should we all have our choices limited because some people are stupid or don't take the time to understand the product they purchased? Why is that MY problem? This is classic nanny state thinking. The individual can't be trusted to make good decisions, so some big bureaucracy is needed to protect us from ourselves.

But why are you here? Get an Android phone. If Best buy isn't selling the brand of router that you want doesn't give you the right to FORCE Best Buy to offer it to you.

 

[TiggrToo]

It would be simple.

Total and utter rubbish. You’ve not seen the code see and yet purport that you feel such an action would be trivial. Surprised you’re also not tell brain surgeons how to do their job as well.

iOS is built to be walled off. It’s built to force apps to have very limited access to the device.

You open it up to other app suppliers then all bets are off.

I don't like that fact that Dropbox employees have access to my data, no matter how well controlled the process. Same with iCloud Drive.

So the same person who wants Apple to open up to this party apps doesn’t like it when apps potentially have access to your data.

So, are you really trying to convince me that some third party apps wouldn’t start using system calls to covertly look at your data?

there's always the possibility that someone might get your data.

You said it, bud. Yet here you are demanding third party apps have access to your phone whilst you also demand security and privacy.

 

[jinnj]

Day 1 of the App Store - Apple had 0% market share in smartphones. Not a monopoly.

Today Apple and Google have 99.2% market share between them (Google slightly higher than Apple but roughly 50-50). *That* is when antitrust law kicks in; when you have a commanding share of a market and you make rules that shut out other options and extract inefficient margins. It's also not easy for consumers to switch due to all the lock-in effects on each side of the duopoly.

Antitrust law is nothing new. Only need to look back at all the credit card payment processing and lawsuits around exclusionary practices over the past few decades. Billions paid out in settlements.

50/50 Not even close. Google Play store membership out numbers Apple. But what all the devs want are people willing to pay for Apps and that is what they come to the App Store.

 

[Ethosik]

Day 1 of the App Store - Apple had 0% market share in smartphones. Not a monopoly.

Today Apple and Google have 99.2% market share between them (Google slightly higher than Apple but roughly 50-50). *That* is when antitrust law kicks in; when you have a commanding share of a market and you make rules that shut out other options and extract inefficient margins. It's also not easy for consumers to switch due to all the lock-in effects on each side of the duopoly.

Antitrust law is nothing new. Only need to look back at all the credit card payment processing and lawsuits around exclusionary practices over the past few decades. Billions paid out in settlements.

That is certainly not true. You do realize that the App Store came a generation or two AFTER the first iPhone. Therefore, they have some market share when the App Store was introduced.

 

[rwxx]

But why are you here? Get an Android phone. If Best buy isn't selling the brand of router that you want doesn't give you the right to FORCE Best Buy to offer it to you.

Lol. I've been an Apple customer for almost 40 years. I met Steve Jobs decades ago. In almost 40 years, I've only used macOS and NEXTSTEP. I'm here because I want to be and because, generally, I like Apple products. But when it comes to the App Store, I don't like what they are doing. I think developers and customers alike should have a choice - like they do on the Mac. I don't think Apple should get to decide what sort of apps are allowed or disallowed on the platform. In their store? Yes. Absolutely. On the platform? No.

So why are you here and why are you so eager to let some big organization decide what you can and cannot do?

 

[Peperino]

How is it wrong when the developers don't have to have their app on iOS device ?
It seems like they want to use apples platform but not pay. And than try to act like its about the consumer

When you develop a program for Windows or Mac OS you do not pay Apple 30% of your business to be able to sell to those users.
The Apple and Google store is a way to MONOPOLIZE and force 3rd party developers to only sell through this platform without leaving any other option.

 

[sigsegv]

People in this thread who don't realize that they are the ones paying the 30% to Apple aren't seeing the whole picture.

The IOS ecosystem is hugely profitable for Apple even for customers that just use free apps. You've already paid for the whole IOS+App Store ecosystem plus a healthy profit when you bought the device. The 30% that you pay for any purchases is pure gravy for Apple.

Yet here we are calling the developer greedy. I don't particularly like Epic but they do have a point. If they win then it will be a great day for all the indie developers.

 

[Peperino]

Yes you do, IF you use the Microsoft Store or the App Store. Steam, Epic, Origin, and other stores take a cut. Microsoft and Apple's stores take 30% cut. If you use your OWN distribution platform, since its YOUR OWN, nothing gets taken out. Why is this difficult to understand?

I do not think you can sell Apps for iOS users, unless it is through the Apple store. That is the "BIG ISSUE"

 

[rwxx]

Total and utter rubbish. You’ve not seen the code see and yet purport that you feel such an action would be trivial. Surprised you’re also not tell brain surgeons how to do their job as well.

iOS is built to be walled off. It’s built to force apps to have very limited access to the device.

You open it up to other app suppliers then all bets are off.




So the same person who wants Apple to open up to this party apps doesn’t like it when apps potentially have access to your data.

So, are you really trying to convince me that some third party apps wouldn’t start using system calls to covertly look at your data?



You said it, bud. Yet here you are demanding third party apps have access to your phone whilst you also demand security and privacy.

And here you are conflating two completely different issues to support your nonexistent argument. That's so weak. What does zero-knowledge cloud storage have to do with App Stores? And where am I demanding that third parties have access to my phone? Can you read???

macOS apps from the App Store are sandboxed, just like iOS apps. There's nothing about iOS's design that would prohibit third party app installs. Personally I have not seen the iOS code, but I know enough people who work for Apple... You're just spinning FUD because you want to believe it. Apple lets you side-load apps today. If big businesses can side-load their custom apps or developers can load apps for testing, it's OBVIOUSLY pretty TRIVIAL to install an app from outside the App Store, so long as Apple lets you.

 

[dannyyankou]

I’m completely on Epic Game’s side here. I understand hosting fees, those are fine. But taking a cut of every micro transaction is a little extreme, especially when processing that micro transaction isn’t even done over Apple’s servers.

 

[Peperino]

Apple needs to make its case clearer and louder. If Epic were to win, then all apps would be free, with in-app purchases and Apple gets nothing

You are wrong. No one is talking about getting "FREE " apps. THey are talking about 2 things, 1 the cut APple is getting is too high (30%) , If you sell services, through your app, they will take 30% of ALL YOUR SERVICES, which is ridiculous, and there is no way to buy an app for iOS unless it is through the App Store. That is a complete anti competitive monopoly.

 

[egrimo]

When you sign up for a website, you agreed on their terms. You CAN discuss rules but you CAN'T BREAK them and file a lawsuit to look victim. You agreed on them, you put your app there, you earned from your app on the platform.

Tencent is not a small company who cries over 30% cut. They're making profit and they seek more by trying to cut costs. Nobody cares about indie devs here. Spotify, Epic and some other devs are only there to keep more money for them.

Everyone can create a store. Hovewer, least companies can have a GOOD, SECURE and MAINTAINED store.

Nr. 1 policy in Apple : Privacy, Nr. 2: Security.

Many people suggesting jailbreak/sideload allowance of Apple. How can you secure the OS with apps that can access root level?

Apple can well close its walls. You don't have to buy iPhones or any other iDevices. Nobody forces any devs to signup for creating iOS apps too. They are on App Store because App Store is the most profitable store in the mobile ecosystem. Google suffers from APK issue where people can get free .apk file to bypass the price and even install apps to force paid apps to give their features for free. It's harder on Apple's side without JB and even if you do, JB detection could limit your phone usage like banking apps , because of SECURITY

 

[mr_jomo]

While I personally don't care much for which mega-company wins the right to continue their quest for profits optimally, I do find it hilarious that Epic didn't give the consumer the full monetary benefit of not having to pay Apple a 30% in-app purchase fee.

 

[psingh01]

Yet, this ridiculous argument and line of thinking is what’s used to define a Apple having a Monopoly on a thing they created. Like, day one of the App Store, it was a Monopoly. Makes sense, yes?

Fortnite is not a store. That is why it’s ridiculous. Epic has their own store where they only charge a 12% fee to developers.
Someone doesn’t have to be a monopoly to engage in anticompetitive practices

 

[Ap0ks]

Seem rather hypocritical from Epic, this is a total push for control. Even says it in the court document, Epic wants Apple to allow other stores on iOS so they can launch an Epic Game Store app to take 12% of the revenue from other game developers instead of Apple taking a cut.

I’m guessing once that happens Epic will throw the cash around to tie smaller devs into exclusive distribution via EGS on iOS like they have on PC, thus reducing customer choice of where they can buy from.