Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I do not care about Apple's internal cost structure as they price their products. My issue is with the fact that at every single price point, they are selling an inferior product than before. Its not like there isn't any competiton here. Would you buy a low resolution 336PPI LCD iPhone XR with a lame duck 3DT implementation and a single camera or a Note 9? Or a Pixel 3?Or Apple's own 8 Plus. I could have bought 2 Note 9s for the price of 1 iPhone XS Max on Black Friday.

FaceID does not mean the removal of almost every single Plus feature for the sake of margins. Its just a way to unlock the phone. Sure the iPhone XR would unlock faster than an XR but once you navigate the phone the 8 Plus is superior
There’s a reason you could buy two note 9 for a price of a max. Samsung are clearly Struggling to sell their flagships. Which why they reduce their prices so quickly

Market these days makes it hard for many to buy devices every year. Most aren’t like people here
 
Quality is one aspect and reliability is another. Having better leather doesn't make the car better. Which back to your point about price and how much an iphone should cost given it's obvious inferiorness to android. And that Ferraris according to internet blogs are difficult to drive and for $250,000 should be able to tow a boat. Right?

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/heres-why-spending-more-money-doesnt-get-you-bette-250690

Yes for the average customer at those prices, that car should be able to do everything under the sun including drive on water. That's why its not a car for the average customer but for a few elite. Again, let me reiterate what those blogs are suggesting is not a flaw. Those are opinion pieces on why some owners do not like to drive it. Give it to me and I could drive it. Hence not a flaw. If it were a flaw no one should be able to drive it.

Yes at the current prices the iPhone is inferior to Android. No one in my immediate circle has an iPhone XS Max as everyone is driven away by looking at the pricing. They have either bought an older iPhone or switched to Android.
[doublepost=1543429107][/doublepost]
There’s a reason you could buy two note 9 for a price of a max. Samsung are clearly Struggling to sell their flagships. Which why they reduce their prices so quickly

Market these days makes it hard for many to buy devices every year. Most aren’t like people here
Apple isn't doing any better either otherwise they wouldn't have hidden the unit sales. Clearly they expect a down turn as well
 
Apple isn't doing any better either otherwise they wouldn't have hidden the unit sales. Clearly they expect a down turn as well
Perhaps Apple will sell fewer iPhones this year vs previous years. Either way, they really aren't hiding anything. They will still report iPhone revenue and there won't be a shortage of analytical firms ready to provide estimate of iPhone units shipped.

The only thing is that Apple won't provide confirmation of what IDC and Gartner publish, but reality won't be too far from their estimates. And if they are, I'm sure that Apple would provide some sort of "behind the scenes" correction of the 3rd party estimates.

Bottom line, don't worry about Apple being opaque with their numbers. It's nothing different from what any other company is doing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: urbanleopard
Perhaps Apple will sell fewer iPhones this year vs previous years. Either way, they really aren't hiding anything. They will still report iPhone revenue and there won't be a shortage of analytical firms ready to provide estimate of iPhone units shipped.

The only thing is that Apple won't provide confirmation of what IDC and Gartner publish, but reality won't be too far from their estimates. And if they are, I'm sure that Apple would provide some sort of "behind the scenes" correction of the 3rd party estimates.

Bottom line, don't worry about Apple being opaque with their numbers. It's nothing different from what any other company is doing.
I don't think their bottom line would be affected that much but the fact they chose to hid it suggests the sales are declining and profits are only being maintained through higher SP.
 
I don't think their bottom line would be affected that much but the fact they chose to hid it suggests the sales are declining and profits are only being maintained through higher SP.
My point is that they really aren't hiding anything. If Apple sells fewer iPhone this year compared to last year, we'll know. Gartner and/or IDC will tell us.

Apple won't be able to hide the unit sales.

Apple is no longer reporting unit sales because hardware companies are punished by Wall Street. Look at the pure hardware companies and their P/E. It isn't pretty.

Wall Street rewards service companies. Look at GOOG, MSFT, NFLX, etc. These companies trade at way higher multiples than Apple does. Apple wants to flip the script and have Wall Street focus on their Services unit.

Here's a bull case for AAPL. In the next report, we can expect a huge upside surprise on the Service number. Why else would Apple choose this quarter to focus on the Service number?

Aside - If you look at Apple's P/E over the last 15 to 20 years, the more successful that Apple has been, the lower the P/E. It's backwards. Before the iPod, AAPL traded at a 60 P/E. Then after the iPod, but before the iPhone, it went down to the 30s. After the iPhone really took off, AAPL traded in the mid-teens. It's really weird.
 
Yes for the average customer at those prices, that car should be able to do everything under the sun including drive on water. That's why its not a car for the average customer but for a few elite. Again, let me reiterate what those blogs are suggesting is not a flaw. Those are opinion pieces on why some owners do not like to drive it. Give it to me and I could drive it. Hence not a flaw. If it were a flaw no one should be able to drive it.

Yes at the current prices the iPhone is inferior to Android. No one in my immediate circle has an iPhone XS Max as everyone is driven away by looking at the pricing. They have either bought an older iPhone or switched to Android.
Let me reiterate your stance. What you post is opinion piece. Posting iphone is inferior to android is opinion. Saying no one in my immediate circle has an iPhone XS Max is anecdotal.
 
Let me reiterate your stance. What you post is opinion piece. Posting iphone is inferior to android is opinion. Saying no one in my immediate circle has an iPhone XS Max is anecdotal.
The flaws I posted-Touch DIsease etc aren't opinion pieces.

Do you want a spec by spec factual comparison between a Note 9 and an iPhone XR as they both sell at the same price? The iPhone will be badly humiliated.
 
The flaws I posted-Touch DIsease etc aren't opinion pieces.

Do you want a spec by spec factual comparison between a Note 9 and an iPhone XR as they both sell at the same price? The iPhone will be badly humiliated.
Yeah but no amount of superior hardware changes one vital part of the phones appeal to many of us, it doesn’t run iOS.

Not everybody pays for spec sheet bragging rights. The XR May have an inferior screen and camera to a Note 9 but it’s a faster and more future proof device that is packaged nicely and runs by far the best operating system on offer. I’d like to say I know which my money would go on but I just bought an 8+ :p
 
I do not care about Apple's internal cost structure as they price their products. My issue is with the fact that at every single price point, they are selling an inferior product than before. Its not like there isn't any competiton here. Would you buy a low resolution 336PPI LCD iPhone XR with a lame duck 3DT implementation and a single camera or a Note 9? Or a Pixel 3?Or Apple's own 8 Plus. I could have bought 2 Note 9s for the price of 1 iPhone XS Max on Black Friday.

FaceID does not mean the removal of almost every single Plus feature for the sake of margins. Its just a way to unlock the phone. Sure the iPhone XR would unlock faster than an 8 plus but once you navigate the phone the 8 Plus is superior

You seem to misunderstand. It's not "Apple's internal cost structure." It's the way the entire economy works. Companies build things for a certain cost and then mark them up—quite often by a percentage. The prices are simply a reflection of what these parts cost. That's not "internal" to Apple.

It is also not an "inferior product than before." I've already debunked that nonsense. As stated previously, you can get an iPhone 8 or an iPhone 8 Plus for $100 less now than you could a year ago. Or 3 months ago for that matter.

The comparisons to the Note 9, or any other device for that matter, are completely irrelevant. You also keep changing the goalposts, which is...well it's something.

What you're really saying, even though you don't want to admit it, is that you want an iPhone for less. Well, too bad. But don't act like anything is different in 2018 from 2017, because it isn't. Not a damn thing has changed in the last decade with respect to how this works.

Given what you've stated, you have 4 choices:
1) Buy an iPhone 8 Plus for cheaper than before
2) Buy an XS Max and whine about how much it costs
3) Buy an Android product
4) Keep whatever you have

What isn't on that list of choices is perpetuating falsehoods here.
 
Last edited:
The flaws I posted-Touch DIsease etc aren't opinion pieces.

Do you want a spec by spec factual comparison between a Note 9 and an iPhone XR as they both sell at the same price? The iPhone will be badly humiliated.
No, like everything else man-made, there were quality issues that affected iphones.

Yes, I want a spec factual comparison and please include 5 years of support and other intangibles and the fact that the Note 9 is discounted because Samsung can't get rid of them.
[doublepost=1543447863][/doublepost]
Yes for the average customer at those prices, that car should be able to do everything under the sun including drive on water. That's why its not a car for the average customer but for a few elite. Again, let me reiterate what those blogs are suggesting is not a flaw. Those are opinion pieces on why some owners do not like to drive it. Give it to me and I could drive it. Hence not a flaw. If it were a flaw no one should be able to drive it.

Yes at the current prices the iPhone is inferior to Android. No one in my immediate circle has an iPhone XS Max as everyone is driven away by looking at the pricing. They have either bought an older iPhone or switched to Android.
Point is more expensive does not necessarily better. For me, at any price I would take IOS over Android. For me, it's not inferior. YMMV.

Anecdotally your immediate family is not buying the Xs Max. I know people that are. In my circle, no one is switching to Android as they would miss out on a lot.
 
You know, we should have a law that makes contents we purchased from one platform readily available to other platform when we switch the device. Although my discontent with Apple keeps increasing, I'm pretty much forced to stick with my iPhone since almost all of my music and movie, tv showes are bound to itunes store.

Amen.

Fortunately, larger studio movies are transferrable with MoviesAnywhere and Ultraviolet. Don’t thank Apple, though. Thank the studios who probably realized that fewer people would buy digital movies if they knew they were locked into an isolated ecosystem.

iTunes tracks have been DRM free for some time.

Meanwhile, Apple’s digital books are locked into iBooks. Apple’s digital books are the worst purchase you can make. Apple attaches it’s own DRM and won’t license it. And I don’t need to remind everyone that they got bitchslapped for trying to fix ebook prices.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ipponrg
You seem to misunderstand. It's not "Apple's internal cost structure." It's the way the entire economy works. Companies build things for a certain cost and then mark them up—quite often by a percentage. The prices are simply a reflection of what these parts cost. That's not "internal" to Apple.

It is also not an "inferior product than before." I've already debunked that nonsense. As stated previously, you can get an iPhone 8 or an iPhone 8 Plus for $100 less now than you could a year ago. Or 3 months ago for that matter.

The comparisons to the Note 9, or any other device for that matter, are completely irrelevant. You also keep changing the goalposts, which is...well it's something.

What you're really saying, even though you don't want to admit it, is that you want an iPhone for less. Well, too bad. But don't act like anything is different in 2018 from 2017, because it isn't. Not a damn thing has changed in the last decade with respect to how this works.

Given what you've stated, you have 4 choices:
1) Buy an iPhone 8 Plus for cheaper than before
2) Buy an XS Max and whine about how much it costs
3) Buy an Android product
4) Keep whatever you have

What isn't on that list of choices is perpetuating falsehoods here.

What is your explanation to the fact that I was getting the latest Plus phone for 3 years straight at $799? I did not have to buy an older iPhone to maintain the same price point.


Yes I chose 3. I actually intended to spend on the XS Max but when I went to look at it in the store, I found it unimpressive for the price point coming from an iPhone X. I realised the money was better spent elsewhere.
 
Yeah but no amount of superior hardware changes one vital part of the phones appeal to many of us, it doesn’t run iOS.

Not everybody pays for spec sheet bragging rights. The XR May have an inferior screen and camera to a Note 9 but it’s a faster and more future proof device that is packaged nicely and runs by far the best operating system on offer. I’d like to say I know which my money would go on but I just bought an 8+ :p

I have an iPhone X and a Note 9 and both Android and iOS are so close at this point, I don’t get why people buy an inferior phone just for the OS. Do I miss those weekly beta updates? Yes. But Android has delinked so many apps from the store, it doesn’t even need an OS update as Play Services API updates in the background. I also miss my Apple Watch but these prices are pure madness. $1200 for a XS Max is the price of a computer but it lacks the longetivity of one.

Apple is going to continue treating the lower price points with scorn to entice users to pay $2000 for iPhones before long. Apple will soon be giving even crappier specs at $700 . I guarantee it.
 
I have an iPhone X and a Note 9 and both Android and iOS are so close at this point, I don’t get why people buy an inferior phone just for the OS. Do I miss those weekly beta updates? Yes. But Android has delinked so many apps from the store, it doesn’t even need an OS update as Play Services API updates in the background. I also miss my Apple Watch but these prices are pure madness. $1200 for a XS Max is the price of a computer but it lacks the longetivity of one.

Apple is going to continue treating the lower price points with scorn to entice users to pay $2000 for iPhones before long. Apple will soon be giving even crappier specs at $700 . I guarantee it.

I’m going to list my reasons for the umpteenth time but what I get out of iOS can’t be replicated via Android. I don’t need the very best smartphone to get the very best experience and that suits me fine as it also saves me a lot more more in the long term. I don’t buy the top iPhone because I do feel it’s a rip off and not offering me anything of value anyway. The XR was a very good device I felt and I hope they continue satisfying that price point considering it’s their biggest market.
 
What is your explanation to the fact that I was getting the latest Plus phone for 3 years straight at $799? I did not have to buy an older iPhone to maintain the same price point.


Yes I chose 3. I actually intended to spend on the XS Max but when I went to look at it in the store, I found it unimpressive for the price point coming from an iPhone X. I realised the money was better spent elsewhere.

Dude. Did you even read what I typed? The explanation is right there in black and white. Multiple times over, I’ll add.

You obviously wanted an iPhone 9 Plus—a big LCD with TouchID and an A12 and 1 or 2 other small changes year-over-year. Apple decided to take its product line in a different direction and to provide features/functionality that you don’t personally care about.

They also discontinued the SE, to the chagrin of some.

Users don’t get to dictate the product roadmap. Not everyone gets everything they want. I’d hope that part is obvious. But to call these decisions (which mean you don’t get the product you want) a “cash grab” is disingenuous.
[doublepost=1543488738][/doublepost]
Apple is going to continue treating the lower price points with scorn to entice users to pay $2000 for iPhones before long. Apple will soon be giving even crappier specs at $700 . I guarantee it.
Respectfully, you’re struggling with basic concepts in economics and product development here, so I wouldn’t be guaranteeing anything in your position. You’re still not getting it despite it having all been explained to you multiple times. Their strategy is quite sound from a business perspective, and as I’ve said about 5 times now, no more or less “greedy” than they’ve been in the last decade. I’m personally quite optimistic about next year’s likely lineup at both the lower and mid price points. But then again, I do this sort of analysis for a living.
 
I have an iPhone X and a Note 9 and both Android and iOS are so close at this point, I don’t get why people buy an inferior phone just for the OS...
I don’t get why people buy an inferior phone hobbled by bloated software either.

They don’t. That’s why Samsung is literally giving these units away in a “fire sale”. Pun intended.
 
No, like everything else man-made, there were quality issues that affected iphones.

And there aren't quality issues with Ferrari, certainly nothing meriting 6 exchanges.

Yes, I want a spec factual comparison
Display tech- LCD vs OLED Winner- Note 9 (Best display on the planet award by Displaymate)
Screen Size- 6.1 vs 6.4 Winner- Note 9
Storage- MicroSD v/s 64GB Winner- Note 9
RAM- 3GB(High end iPhones have 4) v/s 6GB
Battery capacity- Winner-Note 9 (Source- https://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_xr-review-1842p3.php
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note9-review-1805p3.php)
Stylus- N/A vs S-Pen Winner- Note 9
Camera- Single lens vs Dual lens Winner- Note 9. (iPhone XS beats Note 9 in DXomark but only by 2 points and the XR camera is inferior to the XS because of the lack of dual lens)


and please include 5 years of support
You mean 3 years of support and 2 years of crippling. My iPhone 6 would like to have a word with you regarding those "5 years". Oh and don't forget about Throttlegate and Touch Disease

and other intangibles
What other intangibles?

and the fact that the Note 9 is discounted because Samsung can't get rid of them.

Like how Apple hid the sales.
[doublepost=1543514673][/doublepost]
I don’t get why people buy an inferior phone hobbled by bloated software either.

They don’t. That’s why Samsung is literally giving these units away in a “fire sale”. Pun intended.
Proven false above. At least they don't get malware updates designed to slow the phone when the user's back is turned
 
The flaws I posted-Touch DIsease etc aren't opinion pieces.

Do you want a spec by spec factual comparison between a Note 9 and an iPhone XR as they both sell at the same price? The iPhone will be badly humiliated.
Specs have always been better with android for years doesn’t make it a better phone though
 
Sneaky. We had one of those die-hard Android fans in our midst here. I missed it. I’m losing my edge!
 
Sneaky. We had one of those die-hard Android fans in our midst here. I missed it. I’m losing my edge!

I am a tech fan not just an Android fan. I. Call put a product as overpriced when it is. The lack of a dual camera on the XR and a 336ppi resolution make this a bad deal no matter which way you slice it.
 
And there aren't quality issues with Ferrari, certainly nothing meriting 6 exchanges.
It’s possible to have to bring the Ferrari back 6 times to resolve an issue.

Display tech- LCD vs OLED Winner- Note 9 (Best display on the planet award by Displaymate)
Screen Size- 6.1 vs 6.4 Winner- Note 9
Storage- MicroSD v/s 64GB Winner- Note 9
RAM- 3GB(High end iPhones have 4) v/s 6GB
Battery capacity- Winner-Note 9 (Source- https://www.gsmarena.com/iphone_xr-review-1842p3.php
https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_note9-review-1805p3.php)
Stylus- N/A vs S-Pen Winner- Note 9
Camera- Single lens vs Dual lens Winner- Note 9. (iPhone XS beats Note 9 in DXomark but only by 2 points and the XR camera is inferior to the XS because of the lack of dual lens)
So oled is a minus in my book unfortunately. except for the battery... Xs wins. Better cpu, more accurate display and camera. Those are my criteria, subjectively.

You mean 3 years of support and 2 years of crippling. My iPhone 6 would like to have a word with you regarding those "5 years". Oh and don't forget about Throttlegate and Touch Disease
No I mean 5 solid years of support, you have issues with your hardware and I don’t now about “throttlegate” or “touch disease”. Are they similar to “imoliategate”?

What other intangibles?
Apple’s ecosystem is way better than Samsung’s and imo google.

Like how Apple hid the sales.
Samsung never reported them.

Proven false above. At least they don't get malware updates designed to slow the phone when the user's back is turned
No, the phone just crashes.
 
I am a tech fan not just an Android fan. I. Call put a product as overpriced when it is. The lack of a dual camera on the XR and a 336ppi resolution make this a bad deal no matter which way you slice it.
No, you call it overpriced when it's more than you want to spend. That's very different than "it is."

See above: countless facts, numbers, and math.

You've also gone to great efforts to trash Apple for its various "scandals." So maybe you aren't an Android fan, and maybe you're trying to justify your purchase to yourself? Who knows. People will go through the strangest machinations to rationalize their decisions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
I am a tech fan not just an Android fan. I. Call put a product as overpriced when it is. The lack of a dual camera on the XR and a 336ppi resolution make this a bad deal no matter which way you slice it.
Overpriced is a value judgement. You cannot objectively say a product is overpriced. You can say, imo, this product is overpriced. In that vein, the note 9 is overpriced, imo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: john123
Overpriced is a value judgement. You cannot objectively say a product is overpriced. You can say, imo, this product is overpriced. In that vein, the note 9 is overpriced, imo.

So much this. To underscore the point, all anyone has to do is do a search for “Note 9 reviews.” You’ll find all the usual high-traffic sites praising the device but lamenting how expensive it is, and many of those rave reviews recommend holding off. Why? The price relative to the value proposition.

I personally didn’t pull the trigger on a phone upgrade this year despite thinking long and hard about it. I am (quite irrationally) obsessed with the concept of value. But when I look at what the parts in all these devices actually cost, I don’t see an “overpriced” outcome. I see a lot of new, bleeding edge tech that, like nearly all tech, will get less expensive with time.

And from Apple’s perspective, I think 2018 begins to provide more clarity to the product lineup going forward even though it is at this moment arguably more confusing to the average customer. In fact, the only customers who truly got the shaft this year are those preferring smaller devices. Anyone with small hands is kind of screwed. (Insert Trump joke here.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.