Apple Reportedly Cuts iPhone XS and iPhone XR Production Orders Amid Lower-Than-Expected Demand

[I7guy]

For Apple to turn around they need to follow what was done at Microsoft and that's to let all those wealthy old thinking retire and take on fresh hungry new talent before any more damage is done such as causing AAPL market cap to drop below MSFT.

What again do they need to turn around? That they haven't yet hit $2T? Some things could be improved, and (hopefully) will be over time, but I don't see them "turning around" anything, because they might just surprise in the next quarter or two. Regardless of the "doom and gloom" portrayed on this board.

 

[macHacks]

I'm SO glad Apple has clued up fans like yourself as no way they can figure it out for themselves nor have business analysts on tap to tell them the optimum sales strategy...

This story is the same every single year and it's false each and every one.

People have been saying “Apple sucks I’m done with them they’re not doing XYZ anymore they’re going out of business” for at least the last 20 years if not longer. It gets old.

 

[Radon87000]

Big one, it can't be driven. IOW, it doesn't perform the basic function.
https://jalopnik.com/owning-a-ferrari-for-a-year-was-a-disappointment-1668355120

It doesn't say anything about flaws. Its an opinion piece on why the owner thinks its not a car to go for point to point travel and why driving it is difficult. First world problems I guess.

My iphones have required 0 exchanges. As I said you hit the statistical lotter.

The forums are full of complains about dust under the screen, dead pixels, scratched camera lens etc. I somehow doubt that's the case with a Ferrari unless of course you show me proof.

One can still get a Ferrari even in countries where there is no store.

The fact that those are countries where Ferrari did not think they would sell a single unit because of low incomes and we have Apple selling iPhones en masse in the same country is the point I am trying to make that Ferrari and iPhones aren't comparable.

Many of your posts don't merit responses, because they are so hyperbolic. The iphone isn't the Ferrari here. Because it just works.

When I asked you about the reasons as to why the iPhone XS costs $300 more than the Note 9, you came up with a comparison of Ferrari and Subaru. You were trying to equate Ferrari with iPhone and Subaru with Note as both get you where you want to go but Ferrari costs so much more for "no reason" according to you.

Right, apple should have stopped this years ago.

Are you telling me Steve Jobs, founder of Apple is wrong and you and Tim Cook are right?

Couple of things. Apple LCDs are so good oled (and all of it's variations) are only a hair better for many downsides. As far as knowing who the display panel is, you would have to know the part numbers. If you know them please respond so we all know.

They are not a hair better. Turn on the web browser or play a video and hold both the XR and the XS Max 3 feet away from my face and I can easily identify which has the OLED display. Its ridiculously obvious imo. The only area where OLED would look a hair better is if you are viewing a bright photograph with no blacks or just viewing the iPhone homescreen. Put in any colourful photo and the difference is obvious. This really looks to be a case of 144hz vs 60hz. Some people see no difference with ProMotion on an iPad. I see a huge difference and those normal screens are unusable to me after getting used to 120hz.

Also, all of Apple's OLED iPhones use Samsung OLED.

Care to explain what the difference is?

Certainly. As you rightly pointed out LG's OLEDs are better than Samsung on TVs but LGs OLED on mobile from 2017 couldn't compete with Samsung's mobile display from 2012. Samsung was laughing at Google when they tried to challenge them

https://thenextweb.com/shareables/2017/10/26/samsung-google-pixel-2-display/

Let's not discuss catching fire. Samsung Note 7 comes to mind. Samsung is not the only memory in the world.

And when nvidia tried to dump Samsung for Hynix, just like how Google got burnt with the Pixel 2 XL, it was nvidia's turn. Thankfully they learnt their mistake and are now using Samsung for their newer cards

https://forums.geforce.com/default/...0ti-new-batch-gets-samsung-memory-/?offset=60

Does Apple want to risk it? I don't think so.

I don't know what throttlegate is. .

Here
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28...e-battery-replacement-price-slow-down-apology


This is the part where they apologised for Throttlegate.

My 5s says you are incorrect.

My iPhone 6 is unusable

Apples LCD were rated better than oled very recently..

Source?

 

[john123]

Wow. This thread surprises me on many levels, although given the usual dynamics around here, I guess it shouldn't.

If you're one of the people claiming that Apple has become "greedy," the numbers do not support that assertion whatsoever. Check out the quarterly profit margins going back to 2006: https://ycharts.com/companies/AAPL/gross_profit_margin

Apple's gross margins were actually slightly HIGHER in the Steve Jobs era than they are in the Tim Cook era.

People are making an elementary math mistake which is to confuse profit dollars with profit margins. The latter is a percentage. Like it or not, Apple is a publicly traded corporation. It has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to maximize profits, and that includes growing profit year over year. As costs increase, so also must prices, and because the market expects a ~38% margin, that means that each year, the absolute increase gets bigger and bigger. Companies are expected to grow their profits year over year (which is why the people talking about revenue and units sold are completely missing the financial picture).

On top of that, if you want an iPhone XS, that's a choice. You can have the iPhone XR, which is a big leap over the iPhone 8. Or the iPhone 8.

Speaking of, I think people tend to forget that we've had a "tick-tock" cycle for almost a decade now, going back to the iPhone 4 in 2010, followed by the iPhone 4S the next year, etc. On paper, 2017 would have been a "tock" year, and the iPhone 8 easily could have been marketed as the iPhone 7S and would have been a compelling successor to the iPhone 7.

The base iPhone 4 cost $649 unsubsidized, and that pricing continued all the way up to the iPhone 8, which cost $699 at launch. That's a 7.7% increase total, or annualized adjusted for compounding, less than 1.1% per year. That's less than the rate of inflation.

You can now get the iPhone 8 for $599, an iPhone XR for $749, or the iPhone XS for $999.

I truly don't see how anyone can complain in light of the above, which are facts, not opinions. If you want to blame anyone, blame AT&T, Verizon, etc. They're the ones that made this seem painful because the subsidized plans obscured the costs for so long. Then they tricked consumers into thinking that these new "lower cost" plans were a good deal when in reality, if you upgraded every 2 years, many people were better off with the old subsidized plans than the ones today.

 

[Radon87000]

Thank you! Very well said.

I have been reading MacRumors for years and I commented on stuff for the first time yesterday because I’m so sick of the mean spirited, over the top, ridiculous venom people spew here.

“The XR is garbage and a ripoff!”

I bought this phone and I have to say, I think it’s beautiful and performs better than my 7 Plus which was great. Display is a huge improvement (despite having lower ppi).

People are so odd.

I disagree. I can see that the text on the XR is not as sharp as on a 7 Plus. The XR deserves the insults it gets because it costs as much as the Plus did last year and is inferior in so many aspects to the 8 Plus. It doesn't even have a dual camera. All for FaceID and a bezeless design That right there is a deal breaker. Apple is giving an inferior phone at the same price you used to pay last year and you guys get angry whenever this is pointed out.

The XR is Apple playing on the new design to attract customers but cleverly removing extremely functional components from the internals which the average Joe wont know about and lowering chassis quality to increase profits.

 

[john123]

I disagree. I can see that the text on the XR is not as sharp as on a 7 Plus. The XR deserves the insults it gets because it costs as much as the Plus did last year and is inferior in so many aspects to the 8 Plus. It doesn't even have a dual camera. All for FaceID and a bezeless design That right there is a deal breaker. Apple is giving an inferior phone at the same price you used to pay last year and you guys get angry whenever this is pointed out.

The XR is Apple playing on the new design to attract customers but cleverly removing extremely functional components from the internals which the average Joe wont know about and lowering chassis quality to increase profits.

Whaaaa? Comparing it to the 7 Plus is apples and oranges. The proper comparison would be to the 7 or 8, and in that case, the pixel density is the same at 326 ppi. And the XR camera is better than the 7 or 8 camera.

If you want to bemoan the lack of an XR Plus, so be it. But the lineup is confusing enough already. If the pixel density and dual cameras are important, you can buy an iPhone 8 Plus or an XS Max. It's not like you don't have choices...

 

[I7guy]

It doesn't say anything about flaws. Its an opinion piece on why the owner thinks its not a car to go for point to point travel and why driving it is difficult. First world problems I guess.

Not performing the basic function is a flaw.

The forums are full of complains about dust under the screen, dead pixels, scratched camera lens etc. I somehow doubt that's the case with a Ferrari unless of course you show me proof.

What does that even mean? Apple sells 60 million phones and a tiny percent of consumers complain?

The fact that those are countries where Ferrari did not think they would sell a single unit because of low incomes and we have Apple selling iPhones en masse in the same country is the point I am trying to make that Ferrari and iPhones aren't comparable.

What? Ferrari and Apple have one think in common. Their products are probably in every country in the world.

When I asked you about the reasons as to why the iPhone XS costs $300 more than the Note 9, you came up with a comparison of Ferrari and Subaru. You were trying to equate Ferrari with iPhone and Subaru with Note as both get you where you want to go but Ferrari costs so much more for "no reason" according to you.

Simply not true. You were equating price to value and function. I was showing what functions (or lack there of) of what $250K buys vs the same for a more expensive (sic) Note 9.

Are you telling me Steve Jobs, founder of Apple is wrong and you and Tim Cook are right?

It’s Tim cook’s Company. He is right.

They are not a hair better. Turn on the web browser or play a video and hold both the XR and the XS Max 3 feet away from my face and I can easily identify which has the OLED display. Its ridiculously obvious imo. The only area where OLED would look a hair better is if you are viewing a bright photograph with no blacks or just viewing the iPhone homescreen. Put in any colourful photo and the difference is obvious. This really looks to be a case of 144hz vs 60hz. Some people see no difference with ProMotion on an iPad. I see a huge difference and those normal screens are unusable to me after getting used to 120hz.

I think it’s a placebo effect, honestly. There is no way to prove anything right or wrong. One opinion against another.

Also, all of Apple's OLED iPhones use Samsung OLED.

Except those iPhones using LG oled.

Certainly. As you rightly pointed out LG's OLEDs are better than Samsung on TVs but LGs OLED on mobile from 2017 couldn't compete with Samsung's mobile display from 2012. Samsung was laughing at Google when they tried to challenge them

https://thenextweb.com/shareables/2017/10/26/samsung-google-pixel-2-display/

I think Samsung shouldn’t be in denial. Change is coming to oled market. Micro led is a game changer.

And when nvidia tried to dump Samsung for Hynix, just like how Google got burnt with the Pixel 2 XL, it was nvidia's turn. Thankfully they learnt their mistake and are now using Samsung for their newer cards

https://forums.geforce.com/default/...0ti-new-batch-gets-samsung-memory-/?offset=60

Does Apple want to risk it? I don't think so.

Nice take about nvidia. Applenis already taking steps to source many suppliers. You don’t know what they are doing.

Here
https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/28...e-battery-replacement-price-slow-down-apology


This is the part where they apologised for Throttlegate.

Seems like they were saying they should have been clearer about POWERMANAGEMRNT. Which is still present.

My iPhone 6 is unusable

Anecdotally your iPhone 6.

Source?

Various articles in MR, displaymate. its there to easily find.

 

[john123]

I think it’s a placebo effect, honestly. There is no way to prove anything right or wrong. One opinion against another.

Except that you and I are agreeing. Stop the presses!

The price complaints truly mystify me. If someone says they prefer Touch ID or doesn’t like the notch, fine. But these folks complaining about the devices suddenly being overpriced are putting blinders on. Today’s devices are perfectly in line with the last several years of history.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Except that you and I are agreeing. Stop the presses!

The price complaints truly mystify me. If someone says they prefer Touch ID or doesn’t like the notch, fine. But these folks complaining about the devices suddenly being overpriced are putting blinders on. Today’s devices are perfectly in line with the last several years of history.

iPhones never used to cost £999 and £1199 to the consumer until the last two years. How are they ‘perfectly in line’?

 

[Radon87000]

Whaaaa? Comparing it to the 7 Plus is apples and oranges. The proper comparison would be to the 7 or 8, and in that case, the pixel density is the same at 326 ppi. And the XR camera is better than the 7 or 8 camera.

If you want to bemoan the lack of an XR Plus, so be it. But the lineup is confusing enough already. If the pixel density and dual cameras are important, you can buy an iPhone 8 Plus or an XS Max. It's not like you don't have choices...

I am comparing it to the 8 Plus which is exactly the price level it is priced at. It can’t be compared to the iPhone 8 as it’s more expensive than the iPhone 8. It’s got a 6.1inch screen which isn’t much smaller than the XS Max which means those who like the form factor of the 8 will not get this phone. It’s playing in the Plus league both in pricing and in design.

The very fact fact that it’s beaten by a 2017 product in many metrics shows just how crap the product is. They basically gave the iPhone 8 Plus a facelift and removed everything awesome about the Plus phone’s internals. Trying to fool people with form over function.

Why would I want a year old 8 Plus when Apple has discontinued the bezel design? My only option is a XS Max which has outrageous pricing. I got the Note 9 this year as the XS Max is absolutely not worth the price Apple is charging it. Even nvidia is charging crazy prices for their rtx series. $1200 for the 2080ti which is double of what the 1080ti cost last year. But at least they have a reason to charge those prices considering amd can’t even compete with 2070. There is no dearth of good phones which compete with the XS Max. I simply do not agree with this pricing. Unless Apple pulls off an nvidia and truly wows me with an innovative product. But with Tim Cook st the top it’s likely not going to happen.

 

[john123]

I am comparing it to the 8 Plus which is exactly the price level it is priced at. It can’t be compared to the iPhone 8 as it’s more expensive than the iPhone 8. It’s got a 6.1inch screen which isn’t much smaller than the XS Max which means those who like the form factor of the 8 will not get this phone. It’s playing in the Plus league both in pricing and in design.

The very fact fact that it’s beaten by a 2017 product in many metrics shows just how crap the product is. They basically gave the iPhone 8 Plus a facelift and removed everything awesome about the Plus phone’s internals. Trying to fool people with form over function.

Why would I want a year old 8 Plus when Apple has discontinued the bezel design? My only option is a XS Max which has outrageous pricing. I got the Note 9 this year as the XS Max is absolutely not worth the price Apple is charging it. Even nvidia is charging crazy prices for their rtx series. $1200 for the 2080ti which is double of what the 1080ti cost last year. But at least they have a reason to charge those prices considering amd can’t even compete with 2070. There is no dearth of good phones which compete with the XS Max. I simply do not agree with this pricing. Unless Apple pulls off an nvidia and truly wows me with an innovative product. But with Tim Cook st the top it’s likely not going to happen.

I'm scratching my head even harder now.

You have two choices: the older product with a better camera, higher pixel density, smaller screen, larger size, inferior chip, bezel, and TouchID, or the newer product that's $50 more. Or shell out another $250 and have your cake and eat it too. Or pony up for the XS Max for all of the above.

When you say things like "It’s got a 6.1inch screen which isn’t much smaller than the XS Max," that's pretty disingenuous. And when you say things like, "My only option is a XS Max," that's being pretty unreasonable. Let's review the screen sizes and logical resolutions, shall we?

iPhone 8: 4.7" -- 375 x 667
iPhone8 Plus: 5.5" -- 414 x 736
iPhoneXS: 5.8" -- 375 x 812
iPhoneXR: 6.1" -- 414 x 896
iPhoneXS Max: 6.5" -- 414 x 896

If you're obsessed with PPI and horizontal resolution, then yeah, I guess your choices are the 8 Plus and the XS Max. But that would be distinctly a "you" problem.

iPhones never used to cost £999 and £1199 to the consumer until the last two years. How are they ‘perfectly in line’?

See my previous post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...expected-demand.2155834/page-25#post-26844512

As for the issues with higher pricing specific Europe and the UK, that's a topic for another thread.

 

[Radon87000]

I'm scratching my head even harder now.

You have two choices: the older product with a better camera, higher pixel density, smaller screen, larger size, inferior chip, bezel, and TouchID, or the newer product that's $50 more. Or shell out another $250 and have your cake and eat it too. Or pony up for the XS.

When you say things like "It’s got a 6.1inch screen which isn’t much smaller than the XS Max," that's pretty disingenuous. And when you say things like, "My only option is a XS Max," that's being pretty unreasonable. Let's review the screen sizes and logical resolutions, shall we?

iPhone 8: 4.7" -- 375 x 667
iPhone8 Plus: 5.5" -- 414 x 736
iPhoneXS: 5.8" -- 375 x 812
iPhoneXR: 6.1" -- 414 x 896
iPhoneXS Max: 6.5" -- 414 x 896

If you're obsessed with PPI and horizontal resolution, then yeah, I guess your choices are the 8 Plus and the XS Max. But that would be distinctly a "you" problem.



See my previous post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...expected-demand.2155834/page-25#post-26844512

As for the issues with higher pricing specific Europe and the UK, that's a topic for another thread.

You still do not understand the point I am trying to make. From 2014 till 2017, by paying $800 I was getting a Plus phone with a better display, more RAM, dual cameras and a proper 3DT motor. For the same $800, I am now getting what is essentially a bezelless iPhone 8 without all the benefits of the internals of the 8 Plus. If I want the benefits of the Plus phone I have to pony up for the $999 iPhone X and I will still get a smaller display. If I want the screen real estate of the 16:9 Plus phone along with all other Plus exclusive benefits I have to pay $1100 for the XS Max. That's a $300 increase over just 1 year.

Apple has increased the prices throughout its product line. You are getting less for the same price and that applies to everyone. If you were a fan of the smaller iPhone 8, you have to shell out more to get a similar phone. The 8 Plus users are unhappy because they need to pay $1000 for the Plus specs
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I'm scratching my head even harder now.

You have two choices: the older product with a better camera, higher pixel density, smaller screen, larger size, inferior chip, bezel, and TouchID, or the newer product that's $50 more. Or shell out another $250 and have your cake and eat it too. Or pony up for the XS.

When you say things like "It’s got a 6.1inch screen which isn’t much smaller than the XS Max," that's pretty disingenuous. And when you say things like, "My only option is a XS Max," that's being pretty unreasonable. Let's review the screen sizes and logical resolutions, shall we?

iPhone 8: 4.7" -- 375 x 667
iPhone8 Plus: 5.5" -- 414 x 736
iPhoneXS: 5.8" -- 375 x 812
iPhoneXR: 6.1" -- 414 x 896
iPhoneXS Max: 6.5" -- 414 x 896

If you're obsessed with PPI and horizontal resolution, then yeah, I guess your choices are the 8 Plus and the XS Max. But that would be distinctly a "you" problem.



See my previous post: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...expected-demand.2155834/page-25#post-26844512

As for the issues with higher pricing specific Europe and the UK, that's a topic for another thread.

I can clearly see a difference in sharpness between the text on an iPhone 6, an iPhone 7 Plus and an iPhone X. After using the 7 Plus, the 6 felt blurry. After using the iPhone X, the 7 Plus feels blurry. 336PPI at $700+ in 2018 is a joke.

 

[john123]

You still do not understand the point I am trying to make. From 2014 till 2017, by paying $800 I was getting a Plus phone with a better display, more RAM, dual cameras and a proper 3DT motor. For the same $800, I am now getting what is essentially a bezelless iPhone 8 without all the benefits of the internals of the 8 Plus. If I want the benefits of the Plus phone I have to pony up for the $999 iPhone X and I will still get a smaller display. If I want the screen real estate of the 16:9 Plus phone along with all other Plus exclusive benefits I have to pay $1100 for the XS Max. That's a $300 increase over just 1 year.

Apple has increased the prices throughout its product line. You are getting less for the same price and that applies to everyone. If you were a fan of the smaller iPhone 8, you have to shell out more to get a similar phone. The 8 Plus users are unhappy because they need to pay $1000 for the Plus specs

I hear exactly what you are saying. You said, "Apple has increased the prices throughout its product line. You are getting less for the same price and that applies to everyone," but that's factually untrue. You can go buy an 8 Plus right now, and it's now $100 cheaper than it was a year ago at its launch.

But you apparently don't wanna do that. Because you're also obsessed with the new form factor and the upgrades. And yeah, if you want all that new fun stuff, you're gonna have to pony up for it. You are not somehow magically entitled to an XS Max for $800 because a year went by. You've also conveniently overlooked important differences not least of which is the OLED display.

As the Rolling Stones said, you can't always get what you want.

 

[Radon87000]

I was getting the newer form factors with all bells and whistles for the last couple of years at the same price. Why should I even think about buying an older phone. I never buy older tech. I would rather go Android than buy an older iPhone.

As I said, the pricing of the XS Max wouldnt bother me if something innovative was on display. I shelled out $1100 for the 2080ti which is double of last years price because it truly is an outstanding product by NVIDIA with the first consumer implementation of ray tracing and it wipes the floor with all of AMD's product line which can't even beat the 2070. All Apple did was reduce the bezels, put in FaceID and used that as an excuse to jack up the price by the hundreds when there is plenty of competition with phones arguably better than the XS Max. I went for the Note 9 and I am perfectly happy with the phone so far and until Apple reduces the iPhone XS Max's price to $999 or less I aint coming back except perhaps for the iPad. Once Apple slows down my iPhone X to a crawl few years from now, I would get another iPhone just because I am a fan of tech

 

[I7guy]

I was getting the newer form factors with all bells and whistles for the last couple of years at the same price. Why should I even think about buying an older phone. I never buy older tech. I would rather go Android than buy an older iPhone.

As I said, the pricing of the XS Max wouldnt bother me if something innovative was on display. I shelled out $1100 for the 2080ti which is double of last years price because it truly is an outstanding product by NVIDIA with the first consumer implementation of ray tracing and it wipes the floor with all of AMD's product line which can't even beat the 2070. All Apple did was reduce the bezels, put in FaceID and used that as an excuse to jack up the price by the hundreds when there is plenty of competition with phones arguably better than the XS Max. I went for the Note 9 and I am perfectly happy with the phone so far and until Apple reduces the iPhone XS Max's price to $999 or less I aint coming back except perhaps for the iPad. Once Apple slows down my iPhone X to a crawl few years from now, I would get another iPhone just because I am a fan of tech

What you do is anecdotal. As @john123 said, you’re not magically entitled to the top of the line phone at the same price of last year. Raising prices is so nebulous that it can’t be defined since the tech in the phones are not identical.

 

[Radon87000]

What you do is anecdotal. As @john123 said, you’re not magically entitled to the top of the line phone at the same price of last year. Raising prices is so nebulous that it can’t be defined since the tech in the phones are not identical.

What I have an issue with is people saying the pricing is in line with the past. Its not. Also oled doesn’t instantly mean a 300 bucks premium. Samsung sells their oled devices for $700 and have for years now. And if you really want to do an apples to apples comparison, the XR is inferior to the 8 Plus in every way except FaceID. I can’t believe they removed the dual cameras. I have used the telephoto lens countless times for photographs. Thankfully with Apple hiding the unit sales, it seems apparent this is as far as it can go without revenue declining.

 

[I7guy]

What I have an issue with is people saying the pricing is in line with the past. Its not. Also oled doesn’t instantly mean a 300 bucks premium. Samsung sells their oled devices for $700 and have for years now. And if you really want to do an apples to apples comparison, the XR is inferior to the 8 Plus in every way except FaceID. I can’t believe they removed the dual cameras. I have used the telephoto lens countless times for photographs. Thankfully with Apple hiding the unit sales, it seems apparent this is as far as it can go without revenue declining.

I’m wondering why you get to dictate what price oled adds to the value of the phone. Comparing the pricing of Samsung vs Apple is the same logic to compare Ferrari vs bmw and by that logic Ferrari’s are overpriced and under deliver.

 

[Radon87000]

I’m wondering why you get to dictate what price oled adds to the value of the phone. Comparing the pricing of Samsung vs Apple is the same logic to compare Ferrari vs bmw and by that logic Ferrari’s are overpriced and under deliver.

How is the iPhone a Ferrari? And lets keep those pled iPhones aside for a minute. Why is the XR inferior to last gen iPhones at the same price?

 

[Radon87000]

I’m wondering why you get to dictate what price oled adds to the value of the phone. Comparing the pricing of Samsung vs Apple is the same logic to compare Ferrari vs bmw and by that logic Ferrari’s are overpriced and under deliver.

Also Ferrari’s are indisputably higher quality than a BMW. This is obvious even from photographs. I cant believe this is even being compared. Its like comparing a Motorola with an iPhone.

 

[john123]

I was getting the newer form factors with all bells and whistles for the last couple of years at the same price. Why should I even think about buying an older phone. I never buy older tech. I would rather go Android than buy an older iPhone.

That sounds like a "you" problem.

Moreover, this statement reflects a misguided underlying assumption: that each year's new "bells and whistles" as you call them are equal incremental improvements. That is most certainly not the case. Whether you believe it or not, Apple's position is that the X* series is a revolutionary improvement in their phones.

The cost estimates bear this out. Even putting aside costs that can be amortized like overhead and R&D (which would be a mistake) and focusing strictly on gross profit using teardown estimates, at launch last year they were $248, $288, and $370 for the iPhone 8, iPhone8 Plus, and iPhone X, respectively. This year, some estimates peg the teardown cost of the iPhone XS Max at about $443 for the 256GB version.

Now let's do the math of "markup" from parts cost to MSRP. We have 2.82x, 2.77x, 2.70x, and 2.82x for the iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone X, and iPhone XS Max, respectively. In other words...the markup is almost identical last year and this year, both with the "X" and the "8" lines.

So let's dispense with this clearly false narrative about Apple having suddenly gotten greedy. The facts simply don't support it.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Also Ferrari’s are indisputably higher quality than a BMW. This is obvious even from photographs. I cant believe this is even being compared. Its like comparing a Motorola with an iPhone.

Hmmm, you pay for the styling and the engine with the Ferrari brand but I’d be cautious suggesting the Scuderia offer better build quality than BMW. In fact I’d bet my house that they don’t lol.

 

[Rob_2811]

That sounds like a "you" problem.

Moreover, this statement reflects a misguided underlying assumption: that each year's new "bells and whistles" as you call them are equal incremental improvements. That is most certainly not the case. Whether you believe it or not, Apple's position is that the X* series is a revolutionary improvement in their phones.

The cost estimates bear this out. Even putting aside costs that can be amortized like overhead and R&D (which would be a mistake) and focusing strictly on gross profit using teardown estimates, at launch last year they were $248, $288, and $370 for the iPhone 8, iPhone8 Plus, and iPhone X, respectively. This year, some estimates peg the teardown cost of the iPhone XS Max at about $443 for the 256GB version.

Now let's do the math of "markup" from parts cost to MSRP. We have 2.82x, 2.77x, 2.70x, and 2.82x for the iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone X, and iPhone XS Max, respectively. In other words...the markup is almost identical last year and this year, both with the "X" and the "8" lines.

So let's dispense with this clearly false narrative about Apple having suddenly gotten greedy. The facts simply don't support it.

You're right. They were greedy last year too.

 

[john123]

You're right. They were greedy last year too.

And the year before. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that too. Etc. etc. etc. for over a decade, well into the Steve Jobs era.

Because...drumroll please...Apple is a publicly traded corporation. Maximizing shareholder value--via profit--is their one and only job.

 

[I7guy]

And the year before. And the year before that. And the year before that. And the year before that too. Etc. etc. etc. for over a decade, well into the Steve Jobs era.

Because...drumroll please...Apple is a publicly traded corporation. Maximizing shareholder value--via profit--is their one and only job.

Pigs must be flying because I'm agreeing with everything you are posting.
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Also Ferrari’s are indisputably higher quality than a BMW. This is obvious even from photographs. I cant believe this is even being compared. Its like comparing a Motorola with an iPhone.

Quality is one aspect and reliability is another. Having better leather doesn't make the car better. Which back to your point about price and how much an iphone should cost given it's obvious inferiorness to android. And that Ferraris according to internet blogs are difficult to drive and for $250,000 should be able to tow a boat. Right?

https://www.autotrader.com/car-shopping/heres-why-spending-more-money-doesnt-get-you-bette-250690

 

[Radon87000]

That sounds like a "you" problem.

Moreover, this statement reflects a misguided underlying assumption: that each year's new "bells and whistles" as you call them are equal incremental improvements. That is most certainly not the case. Whether you believe it or not, Apple's position is that the X* series is a revolutionary improvement in their phones.

The cost estimates bear this out. Even putting aside costs that can be amortized like overhead and R&D (which would be a mistake) and focusing strictly on gross profit using teardown estimates, at launch last year they were $248, $288, and $370 for the iPhone 8, iPhone8 Plus, and iPhone X, respectively. This year, some estimates peg the teardown cost of the iPhone XS Max at about $443 for the 256GB version.

Now let's do the math of "markup" from parts cost to MSRP. We have 2.82x, 2.77x, 2.70x, and 2.82x for the iPhone 8, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone X, and iPhone XS Max, respectively. In other words...the markup is almost identical last year and this year, both with the "X" and the "8" lines.

So let's dispense with this clearly false narrative about Apple having suddenly gotten greedy. The facts simply don't support it.

I do not care about Apple's internal cost structure as they price their products. My issue is with the fact that at every single price point, they are selling an inferior product than before. Its not like there isn't any competiton here. Would you buy a low resolution 336PPI LCD iPhone XR with a lame duck 3DT implementation and a single camera or a Note 9? Or a Pixel 3?Or Apple's own 8 Plus. I could have bought 2 Note 9s for the price of 1 iPhone XS Max on Black Friday.

FaceID does not mean the removal of almost every single Plus feature for the sake of margins. Its just a way to unlock the phone. Sure the iPhone XR would unlock faster than an 8 plus but once you navigate the phone the 8 Plus is superior