TSMC will approach a wall eventually where thy can’t go significantly smaller. Perhaps we’re seeing the start of that
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Apple Reportedly Planning to Switch Technology Behind A17 Bionic Chip to Cut Costs Next Year
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Cutting costs, again ??
What the **** apple , you already have the highest margins out of all oems , you're about to cross $3T
So greedy this company drives me nuts
What the **** apple , you already have the highest margins out of all oems , you're about to cross $3T
So greedy this company drives me nuts
The rumor says that Apple would use two different TSMC nodes to make the A17, so that, for example, the October A17 would use one and the April next year A17 would use another. Whether they would have different performance is unclear. But it is clear that the A17 would be better than the A16 because Apple is going to use a better TSMC node for the A17.
I agree. I certainly believe that Apple will use N3E for regular iPhone 16 models next year. In the other hand, N3B will be used for 15 pro models.
iPhone 15 pro models will be really the best choice to renew my iPhone. I will switch from iPhone 8. Wifi 6e, Bluetooth 5.3, usb c, xdr oled screen..
They certainly won’t. They’ll want to drive Vision Pro sales first and keep the iPhone costs down as much as they can. In the future I think it’ll be a no brainer for them to add it to existing device lines once the cost is lower and R&D has been recouped.
Ugh! Now what do I tell the wife and kids when I get them new iPhones? “Sorry, kids. This only has an N3B CPU, not N3E.” The little one is going to be devastated!
Because people have a short memory and we, unfortunately, thrive on doom and gloom. You’re 100% correct though, this is a natural cycle sped up by COVID.
People really don’t understand corporations. It’s the penny pinching mindset that enables them to be as profitable as they are. That culture isn’t going to change when it’s working towards their end goal of shareholders profiting.
It’s TSMC discontinuing N3B for cost savings. You’d think that would be mentioned…somewhere. But hey, no Apple is somehow screwing everyone over by not continuing to buy a process node which literally will not be available in the near future.
I use an iPhone 12 Pro so maybe my experience is outdated for current iPhones, but battery life could be better.
For everyday use, it's fine, but when I'm tourist in a new town going from site to site and taking lots of photos or using GPS here and there, I have to very carefully manage battery life if I want to be sure I still have battery life by the time dinner rolls around. I turn on Low Power regardless of batter life, dim the screen as much as possible, etc.
It’s all meaningless when they barely put enough ram into the phone.
I will not purchase another iPhone until it has a yottabyte of ram. 🫸
I will not purchase another iPhone until it has a yottabyte of ram. 🫸
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Oh please, enough with the hatred. If you consider Tim Cook and Apple a personal affront to you then move on.
I would happily take a phone that is the same performance as the previous Generation if the upshot is 20% better battery life.
I 100% agree with you. I also feel that Apple likely decided to pay extra for N3B so they could stay closer to their N3 timeline. Otherwise it would have been pushed back another generation. So its not that customers are getting a lesser chip or Apple is cutting costs to a degrading level, it’s that Apple paid extra to get 3 nanometer chip out sooner.View attachment 2222512I love it. The very first response (SenttoSchool) lays out why N3B was never long for this world as TSMC is completely abandoning it after finding issues with yields. It’s the reason why TSMC introduced N3E in the first place.
Apple will likely be the ONLY high volume purchaser of N3B, so it makes no sense from either TSMC or Apple’s business plans to continue that fab process, it will die.
THAT is the reason for the switch. This being MR however, the hot takes about greed, Tim Cook, shareholders, etc have to take their moment.
TSMC is winding down N3B in the future, NOBODY will be able to use it.
For those interested in the topic:
Companies including Apple change venders and parts all the time. These parts generally get cheaper over time. The N3E will be less expensive because by definition have a higher yield. It’s a win for everyone. The sky is not falling and Apple is not making cuts to their performance.
I've put it trough gpt4 with the request to take out the drama and present it positive. And suddenly it all makes sense:
"The A17 Bionic chip, set to debut in the upcoming iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max, brings exciting advancements in performance and efficiency. It will be Apple's first chip manufactured using the state-of-the-art 3nm fabrication process, a significant leap from the previous 5nm technique utilized for the A14, A15, and A16 chips.
Initially produced with TSMC's N3B process, the A17 Bionic chip will later transition to the N3E process. While the N3E process may have some efficiency tradeoffs, it offers improved performance. This move by Apple is aimed at reducing costs without compromising the overall experience for users.
TSMC's N3B process, developed in collaboration with Apple, served as a trial node and has been ready for mass production for some time. However, it has lower yield compared to N3E. Furthermore, N3B is not compatible with TSMC's future processes, necessitating Apple to redesign its upcoming chips to take advantage of TSMC's advancements.
Apple's decision to potentially incorporate the N3E version of the chip in next year's standard iPhone 16 and iPhone 16 Plus models indicates their commitment to constantly improving performance and staying at the forefront of chip technology.
This information comes from a Weibo user claiming to be an integrated circuit expert with extensive experience working on Intel's Pentium processors. Their track record includes accurately predicting features such as the Lightning-like authenticator chip in the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro's USB-C port, which was later confirmed by reliable sources."
"The A17 Bionic chip, set to debut in the upcoming iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max, brings exciting advancements in performance and efficiency. It will be Apple's first chip manufactured using the state-of-the-art 3nm fabrication process, a significant leap from the previous 5nm technique utilized for the A14, A15, and A16 chips.
Initially produced with TSMC's N3B process, the A17 Bionic chip will later transition to the N3E process. While the N3E process may have some efficiency tradeoffs, it offers improved performance. This move by Apple is aimed at reducing costs without compromising the overall experience for users.
TSMC's N3B process, developed in collaboration with Apple, served as a trial node and has been ready for mass production for some time. However, it has lower yield compared to N3E. Furthermore, N3B is not compatible with TSMC's future processes, necessitating Apple to redesign its upcoming chips to take advantage of TSMC's advancements.
Apple's decision to potentially incorporate the N3E version of the chip in next year's standard iPhone 16 and iPhone 16 Plus models indicates their commitment to constantly improving performance and staying at the forefront of chip technology.
This information comes from a Weibo user claiming to be an integrated circuit expert with extensive experience working on Intel's Pentium processors. Their track record includes accurately predicting features such as the Lightning-like authenticator chip in the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro's USB-C port, which was later confirmed by reliable sources."
At least we should be able to infer some 3nm-M3 goodness from a September-ish A17 iPhone launch.
As long as they don’t increase the price of the phones I don’t care. We’re not even fully using all the A chips potential, and if they can make the software more efficient no one is ever going to notice. A new “faster” chip and slightly better camera is no longer enough for me.
Hmmm, so the N3E is specifically designed for Apple by Apple, so it would make sense TSMC can't use it for everyone else. Then Apple will change to use the same chip as everyone else, even though they have their own unique design 🤔.
The A17 Bionic chip initially used in the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max later this year will fundamentally differ from a version of the same chip set to be manufactured in 2024, a new rumor claims.
The A17 Bionic is expected to be Apple's first chip manufactured with a 3nm fabrication process, resulting in major performance and efficiency improvements over the 5nm technique used for the A14, A15, and A16 chips. The initial version of the A17 Bionic chip will reportedly be manufactured using TSMC's N3B process, but Apple is planning to switch the A17 over to N3E sometime next year. The move is said to be a cost-cutting measure that could come at the expense of reduced efficiency.
N3B is TSMC's original 3nm node created in partnership with Apple. N3E, on the other hand, is the simpler, more accessible node that most other TSMC clients will use. N3E has fewer EUV layers and lower transistor density than N3B, resulting in efficiency tradeoffs, but the process can provide better performance. N3B has also been ready for mass production for some time longer than N3E, but it has much lower yield.
N3B was effectively designed as a trial node and is not compatible with TSMC's successor processes including N3P, N3X, and N3S, meaning that Apple will need to redesign its future chips to take advantage of TSMC's advancements. Apple was originally believed to be planning to use the N3B for the A16 Bionic chip, but had to revert to N4 because it was not ready in time. It may be the case that Apple is using the N3B CPU and GPU core design originally designed for the A16 Bionic for the initial A17 chips, before switching to the original A17 designs with N3E later in 2024. This architecture will presumably be iterated on through TSMC's successor nodes for chips like the "A18" and "A19."
It seems highly unlikely that Apple would make such a drastic change to the A17 Bionic during the product cycle of the iPhone 15 Pro and iPhone 15 Pro Max, so the N3E version of the chip may instead be destined for next year's standard iPhone 16 and iPhone 16 Plus models. The A15 Bionic chip in the iPhone 14 and iPhone 14 Plus is a higher binned variant with one additional GPU core than the A15 used in the iPhone 13 and iPhone 13 mini, so some cross-generational differences despite outwardly featuring the same chip would not be unheard of.
The rumor comes from a Weibo user who claims to be an integrated circuit expert with 25 years of experience working on Intel's Pentium processors. Earlier this year, they were first to claim that the iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Pro's USB-C port and accompanying charging cables will feature a Lightning-like authenticator chip, potentially limiting their functionality with Apple-unapproved accessories — a rumor that went on to be corroborated by more established sources.
Article Link: Apple Reportedly Planning to Switch Technology Behind A17 Bionic Chip to Cut Costs Next Year
Well that makes perfect sense 🤣
The A series chips are ahead of the M Series chips. The M Chips use older Core designs.
The reason the M series is more powerfull is because of the overall size
Well, your completely wrong which is why it doesn’t make sense.
TSMC partnered with Apple to FUND N3E. They needed enough water orders to make the production run economically feasible because node development is a multibillion dollar endeavor *on the front end*.
In development TSMC identified bottlenecks to scaling this process up to the desired wafer counts. To fix this they developed N3E which is what ALL their 3nm production going forward is based on. It’s not directly compatible with N3B.
So basically Apple’s investment gets them 90+% of N3B production, but N3B is not long for this world.
Apple will be switching to N3E when N3B is end of life, which is much sooner rather than later.
As usual Tech journalism sucks at explaining the very industry they “report” on.
Ahh yes the most socialist and green corporation in the world is turning capitalist…dark times ahead indeed.