Apple Reportedly Reassigned Some Marketing Staff to Work on Bolstering Sales of iPhone XS and iPhone XR

[Cosmosent]

I fear AAPL is going to ultimately require a Govt Bailout ! ... & I don't know why NO ONE sees it but me !

They have $102.5B of Debt, yet the Board agreed to a $100B Stock Buyback less than six months ago ... much of the Overseas Income devoted to stock buybacks, which then led to Financial Perf Awards for Tim Cook's immediate staff ! ... that should be illegal !

Now, AAPL is discounting new iPhones in a way that most of the so-called Pro Stock Analysts won't detect the "true" iPhone ASP come the next Earnings Release ... it's going to be in the $500-$599 range !

They "may" simply acquire MORE DEBT to cover that ! ... they may have already !

I've said it many times, AAPL is a House of Cards / Ponzi Scheme, where every Earnings Release & New Product Intro is a Dog & Pony Show with lots of Smoke & Mirrors !

"true (iPhone) ASP" is something everyone should start thinking about !

AAPL knew things we're bad by Nov 1st, & decided to stop reporting iPhone unit sales ... probably thinking they could Fool the Fools with Revenue ... we'll, those discounts are coming from somewhere ... my guess, more Debt !

Very specifically, AAPL is making it look like a FULL COST sale, with Back Room financial finagling.

NO ONE should be surprised if Tim Cook, Phil Schiller, & Eddie Cue are ALL Ousted before this month is up !

 

[gijoeinla]

Phil said in 2013, “Can’t innovate anymore, my ass!”

He was 90% wrong, all we’ve gotten that’s magical are Airpods, mostly everything else is just catchup. Time for Apple to start taking risks.

Oh ok. Like Apple Watch isn’t a innovative growth driving product. Duh. And yea the AirPods are the companies new iPods. A global phenomenon that has zero competition.

 

[MacBH928]

Well if you keep selling the same phone year after year with the price increasing infinitely what do you expect?

The truth is that smartphone growth is over. Everyone who owns a smartphone has a phone that does everything he needs. Its like in the 90s when everyone was going crazy buying PCs from households to school to corporates, and each 4 years the PC would be astronomically different and more capable.

But look at PCs now, a computer you bought 5 years ago does exactly the same thing the computer you buy today. Same with smartphones. The growth period is over the market is saturated and the prices are absurd and it doesn't make sense to upgrade yearly not even every other year. Technological advancement is just not that fast.

 

[Michael Scrip]

Well if you keep selling the same phone year after year with the price increasing infinitely what do you expect?

The truth is that smartphone growth is over. Everyone who owns a smartphone has a phone that does everything he needs. Its like in the 90s when everyone was going crazy buying PCs from households to school to corporates, and each 4 years the PC would be astronomically different and more capable.

But look at PCs now, a computer you bought 5 years ago does exactly the same thing the computer you buy today. Same with smartphones. The growth period is over the market is saturated and the prices are absurd and it doesn't make sense to upgrade yearly not even every other year. Technological advancement is just not that fast.

That's true... everyone who wants a smartphone already has one.

But they'll be buying another phone sometime in the future.

You're right... the replacement cycle is longer. But it won't stop completely. Not until people stop buying phones altogether!

 

[john123]

- https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/overpriced

Overpriced isn't necessarily a Maths problem but more of an English one in relation to your statement.
The latest new phones from Apple are overpriced because they cost more than a lot of people are willing to pay.
This has caused Apple to stop reporting unit sales. It has also caused them to cut production or not expand production.
We will have to wait and see if Apple prices for phones come down next year.
Didn't they say the price of the XR has just gone down in Japan?

I bought the XR, it is still way overpriced. I think most Apple gear is over priced, thats why I haven't bought much of it over the last few years. My last iPhone was the 6 which was bought 4 years ago.

My next purchase will be an new iPad for use at school because the 4 iPads in this house are not good enough to be used in school. Who would have thought than an iPad air was not good enough for school. I guess Apple gear doesn't age as well as people say

That’s a garbage dictionary but sure, let’s use that definition. It says it “costs more than it should.”

Apple’s gross margins have been virtually identical quarter after quarter for over 10 years, long back into the Steve Jobs era.

Based on cost estimates from multiple parts teardowns, MSRP on the iPhones is EXACTLY where it should be given static margins.

Therefore, they don’t cost more than “they should.” They scale perfectly with historical trends.

Fewer units sold does not make your case. Nor does it even necessarily reflect on Apple, given prevailing industry trends and the state of technology.

You’re also (a) making a lot of assumptions about cause and effect that are not supported and (b) putting a lot of faith into unsubstantiated rumors.

Financially, Q1 will be a record-breaking quarter. Kind of hard to argue that they’re “overpriced” when that’s the case.
[doublepost=1543990525][/doublepost]

I fear AAPL is going to ultimately require a Govt Bailout ! ... & I don't know why NO ONE sees it but me !

They have $102.5B of Debt, yet the Board agreed to a $100B Stock Buyback less than six months ago ... much of the Overseas Income devoted to stock buybacks, which then led to Financial Perf Awards for Tim Cook's immediate staff ! ... that should be illegal !

Now, AAPL is discounting new iPhones in a way that most of the so-called Pro Stock Analysts won't detect the "true" iPhone ASP come the next Earnings Release ... it's going to be in the $500-$599 range !

They "may" simply acquire MORE DEBT to cover that ! ... they may have already !

I've said it many times, AAPL is a House of Cards / Ponzi Scheme, where every Earnings Release & New Product Intro is a Dog & Pony Show with lots of Smoke & Mirrors !

"true (iPhone) ASP" is something everyone should start thinking about !

AAPL knew things we're bad by Nov 1st, & decided to stop reporting iPhone unit sales ... probably thinking they could Fool the Fools with Revenue ... we'll, those discounts are coming from somewhere ... my guess, more Debt !

Very specifically, AAPL is making it look like a FULL COST sale, with Back Room financial finagling.

NO ONE should be surprised if Tim Cook, Phil Schiller, & Eddie Cue are ALL Ousted before this month is up !

Sweet Jesus. Please tell me this was supposed to be a joke. If so, you got me.

 

[0970373]

I’ll buy an XR if they let me buy a true dual SIM version and not this eSIM nonsense that they can’t get carriers on board with.

 

[Abazigal]

That's true... everyone who wants a smartphone already has one.

But they'll be buying another phone sometime in the future.

You're right... the replacement cycle is longer. But it won't stop completely. Not until people stop buying phones altogether!

That’s precisely the point.

If smartphones become good enough, people will just hold on to them longer, regardless of price. A drop in price may not necessarily have that much of an impact on sales overall, if people don’t feel inclined to upgrade.

Apple making their phones more expensive is absolutely the right move to make now that smartphones have reached saturation point. Sales will inform Apple as to whether there is still room to further hike prices next year, and I won’t be surprised if there is still some wriggle room with regards to this.

Or maybe there won’t be. Either way, fears of Apple’s impending doom are way over-exaggerated, IMO.

 

[Grey Area]

They're not android features, they're features that were developed by other chipset manufacturers. Android fanboys just like to pretend that they invented them all, but claim apple users do this.

I am talking about features such as the notch, which android users ridiculed extensively, yet every second android phone has now.

To be fair, I have yet to see any Android users express anything other than dismay at notches showing up in Android phones, and mostly they seem glad to acknowledge that the notch is an iPhone thing, and they wish it would stay there.

 

[class77]

Stop putting inferior Intel modems in your phones and use Qualcomm like you've always used in Verizon phones

 

[Compile 'em all]

For everyone saying the phones are overpriced - consider this....

The first iPhone (2007) came with 4Gb of storage space and sold for $499. In today's money, that's ~$600. Now, if I were to offer you that, OR for $150 more the iPhone XR with 64Gb storage (plus everything else that's improved), what would you do?

You somehow assume that technology's cost stay the same. What cost 600 dollars 20 years ago, costs 10 bucks today. Some technologies that costs hundreds of thousands, are today worthless. The costs actually go down, not up. One as a customer should expect to pay less money for mass-produced technology as time passes by, not more.

 

[NMSUballa]

Hire me.

“Lower the price”

Done.

And if they lower the price, I can see people complaining that no hot, new feature is making it on the new phones.

 

[b.lam]

I wouldn't mind upgrading from my 6s but I don't want a massive phone. Even one the size of the Xr is too big for me. Would love to get the Xs with its smaller form factor but not for $1100.

**EDIT** Haha, sorry, just went to Apple site to confirm my numbers. I guess I meant "for $1,453.14". FFS, who is buying these things? I mean, besides YouTubers.

I was in the same situation as you: got a 6s (actually my second one, the first one killed itself one night while laying on my night desk and could not be restored). Unfortunately, it was crashing iOS 50% of the time I used the camera (irrespective of the app). Resulting in endless hours of reinstalling iOS and restoring backups. I've lost numerous things (pictures, recorded biking hikes, invoice processes, etc.) due to this over the last 8 months. So I've lost some faith in Apple hardware, even though I'm using Apple computers since the day of the famous iBook G3/600 and OS X 10.0.

On Monday I finally pulled the trigger on a Galaxy S9 for a decent price. I could neither justify spending double the amount for a similar sized XS, nor spending 870€ for the XR which I find to be too large to use comfortably. I was also not willing to spend the same amount I paid for the S9 for an iPhone 7 with only 32GB of flash, no headphone jack.

Now I have a device that is only slightly taller than the 6s but with the same width, 64GB flash, SD card, waterproof and a headphone jack. Unfortunately: it's Android.

I'm still struggling to get everything configured, because the amount of settings in Android has signficantly increased compared to the last time I used it in 2013. I'm also not sure which cloud service I want to use for my contacts, calendars, reminders, etc. Apple/iCloud is unfortunately seemingly not interested into getting their services (besides Apple Music) natively supported on other devices/operating systems.

Getting back to topic: If Apple is going to release some sort of SE successor (by that I mean approximately the body size of the SE or slightly larger with a full screen display) in the future, I'd be willing to change ship again, even if I loose the headphone jack. If they instead keep on raising prices, then it's goodbye for me (at least for phones).

 

[9081094]

So basically, do the opposite of everything that made Apple as successful as it is today?

Define successful. Apple lost its core business like print, video, education. Signs it is struggling with the phone and iPad business will harden by the day. Home markets like Apple TV and HomePod are a joke and if the sluggish pace of Siri is any indication, I see bigger problems ahead. Sure it is still making extraordinary profits but I see those slowly eroding.

Apple gear was always expensive in the past. But they made good hardware then and were ahead of the pack in most categories they were in. Today they’re behind in almost every category and still charging, in some cases, double the amount competitors do. You can do this for a certain amount of time and I think they’re on crossroads now.

Hardware (computers) are a joke. Phones are not competitive priced and iPads have a crippled OS.

So if you find Apple successful it’s not on the behalf of customers but in the same way Saint Cook is thinking.
[doublepost=1544000426][/doublepost]

And if they lower the price, I can see people complaining that no hot, new feature is making it on the new phones.

Up the price with no hot new features is what makes people complain. Want innovation? Don’t look at Apple.

 

[Substance90]

The market has spoken.

 

[Bacillus]

Define successful. Apple lost its core business like print, video, education. Signs it is struggling with the phone and iPad business will harden by the day. Home markets like Apple TV and HomePod are a joke and if the sluggish pace of Siri is any indication, I see bigger problems ahead. Sure it is still making extraordinary profits but I see those slowly eroding.
Apple gear was always expensive in the past. But they made good hardware then and were ahead of the pack in most categories they were in. Today they’re behind in almost every category and still charging, in some cases, double the amount competitors do. You can do this for a certain amount of time and I think they’re on crossroads now.
Hardware (computers) are a joke. Phones are not competitive priced and iPads have a crippled OS.
So if you find Apple successful it’s not on the behalf of customers but in the same way Saint Cook is thinking.
[doublepost=1544000426][/doublepost]
Up the price with no hot new features is what makes people complain. Want innovation? Don’t look at Apple.

Agree.
Dependance on single product category, eroding prominence & addiction to cash is a cocktail that financial markets HATE

 

[kingalexthe1st]

You somehow assume that technology's cost stay the same. What cost 600 dollars 20 years ago, costs 10 bucks today. Some technologies that costs hundreds of thousands, are today worthless. The costs actually go down, not up. One as a customer should expect to pay less money for mass-produced technology as time passes by, not more.

OK, let's reverse my argument and say you go back in time with the Xr and show it to someone who has just purchased the first iPhone. You tell them in 11 years' time, you can buy this Xr for only $150 more (or, $125 in their money). I think they would lose their mind over it. I'm not talking about raw cost, I'm talking about *value*. And I think for the price for what you get the Xr is great. The XS is a different story, but those are just my opinions.

 

[ConfluxNZ]

Apple’s current levels of greed are not sustainable long term. A $750 phone (let alone a $1000 XS) should at least come with a fast charging brick; but no, everything is an extra cost and I think customers are finally fed up... I most certainly am.

 

[Ramchi]

I was in the same situation as you: got a 6s (actually my second one, the first one killed itself one night while laying on my night desk and could not be restored). Unfortunately, it was crashing iOS 50% of the time I used the camera (irrespective of the app). Resulting in endless hours of reinstalling iOS and restoring backups. I've lost numerous things (pictures, recorded biking hikes, invoice processes, etc.) due to this over the last 8 months. So I've lost some faith in Apple hardware, even though I'm using Apple computers since the day of the famous iBook G3/600 and OS X 10.0.

On Monday I finally pulled the trigger on a Galaxy S9 for a decent price. I could neither justify spending double the amount for a similar sized XS, nor spending 870€ for the XR which I find to be too large to use comfortably. I was also not willing to spend the same amount I paid for the S9 for an iPhone 7 with only 32GB of flash, no headphone jack.

Now I have a device that is only slightly taller than the 6s but with the same width, 64GB flash, SD card, waterproof and a headphone jack. Unfortunately: it's Android.

I'm still struggling to get everything configured, because the amount of settings in Android has signficantly increased compared to the last time I used it in 2013. I'm also not sure which cloud service I want to use for my contacts, calendars, reminders, etc. Apple/iCloud is unfortunately seemingly not interested into getting their services (besides Apple Music) natively supported on other devices/operating systems.

Getting back to topic: If Apple is going to release some sort of SE successor (by that I mean approximately the body size of the SE or slightly larger with a full screen display) in the future, I'd be willing to change ship again, even if I loose the headphone jack. If they instead keep on raising prices, then it's goodbye for me (at least for phones).

If you use Office 365 Home then it supports 5 accounts with free Office bundle along with 1 TB storage for each account for $70-75 a year in my place. Office Cloud can store your pictures and selected folders with auto sync on.

There are switch apps to move your content from old devices very easily. Besides, Google and Samsung provides basic cloud storage to keep your contacts, calls, messages for FREE (like iCloud).

There are tons of cloud solutions available that are platform neutral.

 

[john123]

lol. Who cares about the notch. FaceID has worked more or less perfectly for me. People see what they want to see.

I think this is true a lot of the time. I also think there are a lot of people who don't have an agenda, and who make up their minds (or try) on the basis of information rather than the other way around. You just don't hear much from them on internet forums, sadly.
[doublepost=1544016583][/doublepost]

Apple’s current levels of greed are not sustainable long term. A $750 phone (let alone a $1000 XS) should at least come with a fast charging brick; but no, everything is an extra cost and I think customers are finally fed up... I most certainly am.

Stop calling it "greed." Mathematically that is not what it is--not unless you think Apple was equally greedy in 2008 under Steve Jobs.

I'm starting to think there ought to be a mandatory course on accounting, microeconomics, and unit economics before people are allowed to post on topics related to cost in here...
[doublepost=1544016621][/doublepost]

Agree.
Dependance on single product category, eroding prominence & addiction to cash is a cocktail that financial markets HATE

Good thing for Apple shareholders that's not what Apple does!
[doublepost=1544016967][/doublepost]

I wouldn't mind upgrading from my 6s but I don't want a massive phone. Even one the size of the Xr is too big for me. Would love to get the Xs with its smaller form factor but not for $1100.

**EDIT** Haha, sorry, just went to Apple site to confirm my numbers. I guess I meant "for $1,453.14". FFS, who is buying these things? I mean, besides YouTubers.

People with high levels of disposable income—of which there's an even greater number these days. The 2018 tax cuts, among other things, exacerbated the wealth disparity in this country and made the very rich much much richer...but it also gave everyone who is middle-upper class and up a LOT more cash to play with. And we know that people suck when it comes to planning their finances and spending intelligently.

Also, people with lower levels of disposable income or savings, but who plan to buy a phone for a longer period of time. (Which of course then leads to people complaining that each new model is a "flop" rather than recognizing what's actually going on: an industry trend.)

 

[ipponrg]

I'm starting to think there ought to be a mandatory course on accounting, microeconomics, and unit economics before people are allowed to post on topics related to cost in here...

Because maximizing cost and profit have nothing to do with greed. Some people such as yourself should also take psychology or behavioral science classes, so that you can understand things aren’t as black/white as you think

 

[Andres Cantu]

Oh ok. Like Apple Watch isn’t a innovative growth driving product. Duh. And yea the AirPods are the companies new iPods. A global phenomenon that has zero competition.

Of course it is, but they never disclosed sales figures for it. It’s Apple, if the initial sales had been great, they would have wanted to show them off.

As far as the growth, I agree, but the watch won’t bring in as much revenue as the iPhone. Not to mention it’ll never sell as many, it’s still an accessory to the iPhone in many regards.

 

[john123]

Because maximizing cost and profit have nothing to do with greed. Some people such as yourself should also take psychology or behavioral science classes, so that you can understand things aren’t as black/white as you think

Actually I'm a huge fan of behavioral psychology. I took a ton of classes on it. Kahneman and Tversky are my spirit animals. And if you know that field and now know that I think those guys are/were awesome, then you also know what aspect of behavioral psychology I love the most: cognitive biases.

To call Apple greedy today is to always call them greedy. And that's really the same as calling them a "corporation." Nothing else is consistent with the facts.

When people call Apple "greedy” over iPhone pricing, what they're really saying is, "I'm unable to, unwilling to, or simply don't really want to pay that much for a phone." And that's absolutely fair. But while it may feel good to blame Apple (and to brand them as a big bad evil greedy corporation) for that cost, doing so would be disingenuous. Markups and profit margins are just corporate life (and indeed publicly traded corporations have a fiduciary duty to maximize shareholder profits). And it was the exact same corporate life (i.e., same gross profit margins) under Steve Jobs. Arguing otherwise flies in the face of basic math and facts.

Lots of things have many shades of gray. This isn't really one of them.

 

[ipponrg]

Lots of things have many shades of gray. This isn't really one of them

The frequent claims of higher ASPs is not one of them? What about claims of Apple dominance but conveniently leave out global numbers? How about the lack of emerging market penetration because the cost is not worth cutting to get new users? What about the luxury branding partnerships with stores and fashion designers?

These all seem pretty grey to me. Now, I personally don’t think Apple is greedy per se with your definition. However I find it hypocritical when they talk about increase in profit as a result of higher ASPs. To me, the underlying message is they want to see how far they can charge before pulling back.

 

[AnthonyG6]

Pretty arrogant statement considering the article specifically mentions last years fiasco with the X, predicting doom and gloom. This news "story" could pan out to be nothing.
[doublepost=1543939418][/doublepost]
How do you know a "vast" number of loyal customers were alienated. How is a loyal customer defined? How do you know potential new customers are alienated? How do you know including charging pads and airpods would result in skyrocketing sales?

Just asking because this is all conjecture and what-ifs.

Yes you are right, I don't know for a fact that a 'vast' number of loyal customers have been alienated. As this is just a discussion forum and not a court of law, I have just extrapolated senitiment garnarded from sites such as MacRumors et al including my own feelings and formed an opinion. In hindsight I should have stated that 'my following statement is just my own opinion on the subject and I have not conducted a poll or any further research into recent iPhone sales'.

In my defence; I was of the understanding that most if not all (again an opinion) commments posted here were just opinions and rumors. Therefore I didn't feel the need to clarify that my comment was also an opinion.

 

[Macbook14in]

Better release a $1,500 iPhone next year to boost sales smh