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This is something that is overlooked in the discussion about the AVP. The amount the average person can spend on electronic devices for work, communication and entertainment is limited. The AVP is not going to replace the Mac for work or an iPhone. I don't think there is enough budget for this very expensive gadget that only solves a very narrow use case. The situation gets even worse when you have to take into account the needs of your spouse and kids, who might not earn their own income yet.

I’d suggest that lots of us have the money to waste on a $3,500 device. Just not this one, for the exact reasons you listed. If it was so endlessly fun and/or productive that people couldn’t take it off they loved it so much? Then it would be worth the money.
 
Has to be below $1000. That said, it is Apple, so I will be totally unsurprised if their cheapest attempt is actually well above that, even $1499. But I hope they really work the problem, because it truly needs to be much cheaper.
 
Vision Pro is a great 1st-gen product held back by its price. An Apple tale as old as time. This news makes perfect sense given its reception and how the execs were talking about Vision Pro publicly during WWDC.

Now they learn how it gets used, how to market it, who's buying it, and where to aim next. Calling it a failure/prepped for cancellation/the final nail in Apple's coffin is so weird, like are you new? Can you really not differentiate your bizarre big tech fanboy feud desires from reality?

Like yes you should be mad you cannot own one. Everyone should. It's priced exorbitantly and I really think Apple was genuinely taken back by even well-off tech employees scoffing at the price. But now they adjust.

They're gonna let Vision Pro 1 ride out for another few years to let the cost of components go down so they can price drop it because the tech holds up. The only big performance issue it had was hand tracking being 30fps and they just fixed it in VisionOS 2. They're not gonna focus on big, graphically intensive games obv. Battery life is good and people figured out how to use either of the head straps. It doesn't actively hurt people anymore lol.

Vision "Lite" is a great next step. I feel like $1799 is their sweet spot because they definitely lean on the "$/per month" installments to sell their more expensive products now and $149/month will sound great to tech bros. STILL TOO EXPENSIVE for what it is, but once Adobe Lightroom launches on it, 3d modelling software, and other creative-focused tools, it'll be a great sell to upper-middle class.

Unformatted of things to make it cheaper:

  • They're gonna keep the same screens and cameras, so:
  • Just axe the front screen.
  • Make it soft, diffused color LED array like homepod mini.
  • Hopefully they could get to fanless thermals with newer M chips.
  • One headband only in box.
  • no front cover in box (cuz no more screen/glass).
  • manual eye distance adjustment with like a knob or something.
  • ********/no speakers (rely on airpods instead).
  • a single adjustable face mount pad thing rather than all of the crazy R&D and production that went into all the specific sizes and sizing needed for the current fitting system.
  • no over-engineered side bands (that house the speakers with secret data connection lighting port things).
  • ******** battery (that doesn't have like internal motion-detecting components to know when to blink the LED when moved).
  • less microphones.
And then sweeten the deal with accessories like VR game controllers or apple pencil support somehow ("draw on any surface!") or a portable keyboard/magic trackpad combo.

Like Vision Pro is so obviously such a over-engineered, aimed-towards-luxury product. Like it being over-engineered is a part of its selling point as a "futuristic" product. Yet SOOOO many "normal" people would love it for the media/entertainment consumption aspect alone, so I'm sure the goal would be to get it down to even $899 in half a decade.

They had to sell the $17,000 18 karat gold Apple Watch, and even the $1300 ceramic version after, to get the ball rolling for the rest of us. Now we let them cook on this new thing.

There is a world where they do cancel this product for SURE. But it would have to be a series of unfortunate events that makes that happen at this point (someone leaving, the company itself starts floundering for whatever reason, Tim croaks and someone comes in that wants to optimize for just iPhone or whatever, etc). Cuz I feel like the one time they gave up on a launched product that didn't make sense to me (and still doesnt) was Airport routers. And Vision doesn't feel like that. Apple still hates Meta and they're gonna want to win.
I could easily afford it, but it’s just not a very attractive product. I probably wouldn’t even buy it for well below $1k, knowing it would mostly just collect dust. Instead I bought two iPad Pros.

Sure at a lower price it would sell more units, but it would remain a niche/gimmicky product for most.
 
Has to be below $1000. That said, it is Apple, so I will be totally unsurprised if their cheapest attempt is actually well above that, even $1499. But I hope they really work the problem, because it truly needs to be much cheaper.

Look at the price of the top spec iPhone. Then look at the top spec iPad.

It isn’t ever going to drop to $1k. It probably won’t ever drop below $2k.
 
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Along with reducing cost, they also need to accept reduced profit margins.

If it costs around $1,200 to make a $3,500 items, how about making the item $2,500?
 
Along with reducing cost, they also need to accept reduced profit margins.

If it costs around $1,200 to make a $3,500 items, how about making the item $2,500?
The $1200 are just the components and maybe assembly, and don’t include R&D, marketing, distribution, Apple Store installations, returned units, and so on. It’s unclear what the break-even point would be, and clearly they want to make some profit. $3000 might be possible.
 
Not surprising. In THIS economy when you can't even go to Taco Bell for under $10 and people frequently can't even afford rent/mortgages, did they really think there were THAT many people willing to fork over $3500 dollars for something that is incredibly niche and frankly not popular? VR just isn't something people care about, especially at that entry price. Jobs never would have let this see the light of day.
 
I’d suggest that lots of us have the money to waste on a $3,500 device. Just not this one, for the exact reasons you listed. If it was so endlessly fun and/or productive that people couldn’t take it off they loved it so much? Then it would be worth the money.
Well yes, in theory, I could afford it as well. But the must-have factor is not there, and I would rather spend it on travel. Or, in fact, spend it on upgrading my MacBook or iPhone or iPad. The priority for a gadget like this is close to zero.

Now, if AVP could realistically substitute one of the mentioned devices, then it could be a maybe. But then again, that is not what Apple's marketing likely has in mind. They want us to buy the AVP in addition to the other devices and services we already buy regularly.
 
People should come down. If true, it’s just like Apple does it all the time. In the long term the products will be successful, after adapting price points and features. Also, the original iPhone was too expensive at the very beginning.
The original iPhone was expensive (relatively speaking), but people could clearly see the vast potential of the product from the beginning. We knew a huge change was coming. That’s not the case with the Vision Pro. It’s very murky to say the least.
 
Nothing ever good comes from me posting on this forum but whatever.

Vision Pro is a great 1st-gen product held back by its price. An Apple tale as old as time. This news makes perfect sense given its reception and how the execs were talking about Vision Pro publicly during WWDC.

Now they learn how it gets used, how to market it, who's buying it, and where to aim next. Calling it a failure/prepped for cancellation/the final nail in Apple's coffin is so weird, like are you new? Can you really not differentiate your bizarre big tech fanboy feud desires from reality?

Like yes you should be mad you cannot own one. Everyone should. It's priced exorbitantly and I really think Apple was genuinely taken back by even well-off tech employees scoffing at the price. But now they adjust.

They're gonna let Vision Pro 1 ride out for another few years to let the cost of components go down so they can price drop it because the tech holds up. The only big performance issue it had was hand tracking being 30fps and they just fixed it in VisionOS 2. They're not gonna focus on big, graphically intensive games obv. Battery life is good and people figured out how to use either of the head straps. It doesn't actively hurt people anymore lol.

Vision "Lite" is a great next step. I feel like $1799 is their sweet spot because they definitely lean on the "$/per month" installments to sell their more expensive products now and $149/month will sound great to tech bros. STILL TOO EXPENSIVE for what it is, but once Adobe Lightroom launches on it, 3d modelling software, and other creative-focused tools, it'll be a great sell to upper-middle class.

Unformatted of things to make it cheaper:

  • They're gonna keep the same screens and cameras, so:
  • Just axe the front screen.
  • Make it soft, diffused color LED array like homepod mini.
  • Hopefully they could get to fanless thermals with newer M chips.
  • One headband only in box.
  • no front cover in box (cuz no more screen/glass).
  • manual eye distance adjustment with like a knob or something.
  • ********/no speakers (rely on airpods instead).
  • a single adjustable face mount pad thing rather than all of the crazy R&D and production that went into all the specific sizes and sizing needed for the current fitting system.
  • no over-engineered side bands (that house the speakers with secret data connection lighting port things).
  • ******** battery (that doesn't have like internal motion-detecting components to know when to blink the LED when moved).
  • less microphones.
And then sweeten the deal with accessories like VR game controllers or apple pencil support somehow ("draw on any surface!") or a portable keyboard/magic trackpad combo.

Like Vision Pro is so obviously such a over-engineered, aimed-towards-luxury product. Like it being over-engineered is a part of its selling point as a "futuristic" product. Yet SOOOO many "normal" people would love it for the media/entertainment consumption aspect alone, so I'm sure the goal would be to get it down to even $899 in half a decade.

They had to sell the $17,000 18 karat gold Apple Watch, and even the $1300 ceramic version after, to get the ball rolling for the rest of us. Now we let them cook on this new thing.

There is a world where they do cancel this product for SURE. But it would have to be a series of unfortunate events that makes that happen at this point (someone leaving, the company itself starts floundering for whatever reason, Tim croaks and someone comes in that wants to optimize for just iPhone or whatever, etc). Cuz I feel like the one time they gave up on a launched product that didn't make sense to me (and still doesnt) was Airport routers. And Vision doesn't feel like that. Apple still hates Meta and they're gonna want to win.
It could arguably be said that Apple has put the entire AR/VR genre into a winter for the next decade with its overpriced device. Apple leads the industry, and many consumers are deeply disappointed by this 3.5k device, which basically signals that this technology, if you do it right, is only for the rich. A lot of them have probably given up on AR/VR altogether. The entire AR/VR industry will suffer because of that and experience a downturn.

Apple should have heavily subsidised this device and included as many people as possible in its AR/VR experience. With future generations of the device, the price could then have been gradually increased.
 


Apple has suspended work on the second-generation Vision Pro headset to singularly focus on a cheaper model, The Information reports.

Apple-Vision-Pro-2-Feature-2.jpg

Apple was widely believed to have plans to divide its Vision product line into two models, with one "Pro" model and one lower-cost standard model. The company is said to have been deprioritizing the next Vision Pro headset over the past year, gradually assigning fewer employees to the project.

Apple first shifted focus to reducing the cost of the first-generation model's components and creating an upgraded display for the next model. Now, the company has apparently told at least one of its suppliers that it has suspended work on the next-generation of its Vision Pro headset. It still is continuing work on a more affordable "Vision" product with fewer features.

The company purportedly began work on a cheaper Vision device in 2022 with the codename "N109." The objective is to sell this model for around the same price as a high-end iPhone, which retails for up to $1,600. At the time Apple began work on the device, it sought to release it at the end of 2024, but as of earlier this year, it still did not have a firm prototype. The company is said to have been struggling to find ways to reduce the model's costs without sacrificing too many features, which means that it will likely slip beyond its revised release date of the end of 2025.

Apple apparently wants to retain the Vision Pro's high-end display components in the low-cost model, which are among the most expensive components in the device. MacRumors previously reported that the cheaper model will feature the same high-end displays as the Vision Pro, but with fewer cameras, a simpler headband, and smaller speakers. Apple also wants to make its cheaper headset at least one-third lighter than the Vision Pro.

One supplier that makes key components for the Vision Pro apparently cut production by 50% in May after receiving a forecast from Apple that predicted weaker demand than expected. Information from this supplier suggests that Apple has produced no more than 500,000 Vision Pro units this year, with no plans to make significantly more than this through August.

The Information says that it is still possible Apple will resume work on a second-generation Vision Pro headset at some point in the future.

Article Link: Apple Reportedly Suspends Work on Vision Pro 2
They are still very far off hardware wise from making this into a decent product. They haven't solved a single problem with vr today. If they make it any cheaper it will fail like their charging pad
 
Who would've ever thought? As it is now it's clearly a product without a market.
 
And watches have the benefit of being a tried and true form factor for ....forever

Honestly, my critique of the AW at this point is that they haven't made more form factors to better suit the type of user/usage. They just punted and make different "bands" as opposed to many interesting and different actual hardware designs.

Watches are accessories that people like to compliment their look in many contexts and being able to have a far more differentiated lineup would increase the appeal a lot.

As it is now -- they are all "dorky little wrist computers" and everyone ends up looking like they are part of the Borg collective
My critique of the AW is that it gets rendered obsolete after a couple years requiring you to purchase a new one....which goes obsolete after a few years.

A traditional mechanical watch stands the test of time. You don't need to update it every year and it NEVER goes out of style.

Then again you don't get to show off those cool Watch bands to everyone :rolleyes:
 
I don’t believe that at all. Apple would not cancel a project like this just after launching the first gen product. I’m sure that they will even release a cheaper version along with the successor of the current one.
Suspends is not the same as "cancel." It really makes sense to stretch that timeline.
1. It's not selling like hot cakes.
2. Hardware costs are not rapidly falling - the longer they push out, the better then can launch a lower price point that will see higher adoption.

It's also already the most advanced device on the market of its kind - a bit too ahead of its time which the cost reflects and as a result, sales.
 


Apple has suspended work on the second-generation Vision Pro headset to singularly focus on a cheaper model, The Information reports.

Apple-Vision-Pro-2-Feature-2.jpg

Apple was widely believed to have plans to divide its Vision product line into two models, with one "Pro" model and one lower-cost standard model. The company is said to have been deprioritizing the next Vision Pro headset over the past year, gradually assigning fewer employees to the project.

Apple first shifted focus to reducing the cost of the first-generation model's components and creating an upgraded display for the next model. Now, the company has apparently told at least one of its suppliers that it has suspended work on the next-generation of its Vision Pro headset. It still is continuing work on a more affordable "Vision" product with fewer features.

The company purportedly began work on a cheaper Vision device in 2022 with the codename "N109." The objective is to sell this model for around the same price as a high-end iPhone, which retails for up to $1,600. At the time Apple began work on the device, it sought to release it at the end of 2024, but as of earlier this year, it still did not have a firm prototype. The company is said to have been struggling to find ways to reduce the model's costs without sacrificing too many features, which means that it will likely slip beyond its revised release date of the end of 2025.

Apple apparently wants to retain the Vision Pro's high-end display components in the low-cost model, which are among the most expensive components in the device. MacRumors previously reported that the cheaper model will feature the same high-end displays as the Vision Pro, but with fewer cameras, a simpler headband, and smaller speakers. Apple also wants to make its cheaper headset at least one-third lighter than the Vision Pro.

One supplier that makes key components for the Vision Pro apparently cut production by 50% in May after receiving a forecast from Apple that predicted weaker demand than expected. Information from this supplier suggests that Apple has produced no more than 500,000 Vision Pro units this year, with no plans to make significantly more than this through August.

The Information says that it is still possible Apple will resume work on a second-generation Vision Pro headset at some point in the future.

Article Link: Apple Reportedly Suspends Work on Vision Pro 2


Ugh...

Was hoping that a v2 AVP would support (not require but support/allow) direct input from computers (Macs *and* PCs) and improve the FoV.

So, still no QTVR (or even something "new" that would be similar in a prosumer space/accessible cost) and no v2 any time soon.

...

At least we're getting more emoji and Apple specific emoji-like AI features! Gotta focus on the important projects!

Right?

Right?
 
It could arguably be said that Apple has put the entire AR/VR genre into a winter for the next decade with its overpriced device. Apple leads the industry, and many consumers are deeply disappointed by this 3.5k device, which basically signals that this technology, if you do it right, is only for the rich. A lot of them have probably given up on AR/VR altogether. The entire AR/VR industry will suffer because of that and experience a downturn.

Apple should have heavily subsidised this device and included as many people as possible in its AR/VR experience. With future generations of the device, the price could then have been gradually increased.
I think the general Apple customer has more foresight than you give credit. They're also fiercely loyal and will wait for Apple to enter a market before entering that market themselves with Meta's offerings, etc.

The price has to go down, and the price will go down, and people will buy. It'll always be a smaller market than iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, but it could be a strong and loyal one.

I'm just not seeing or hearing evidence of this "the damage has been done and its permanent" talk anywhere. Tech forums don't count.
 
Apple defenders, all across the landscape, want so badly for this to be "all part of the master plan"

They don't seem to realize how far Apple has fallen off in recent years

This was just a huge whiff

In terms of "product", the most out to lunch at Apple is the actual CEO, so I suspect he forced this out against internal opposition.
Yeah this notion that it’s Apple’s typical MO to release a really expensive ‘pro’ version first and then bring a more affordable version to market is not born out by facts. Vision Pro isn’t ready for the masses. I doubt it will ever be a product for the masses. Unless Apple decides to take the Apple Watch route and pivot to just a gaming/content watching device I don’t think creating a cheaper version will matter.
 
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Apple pursued a similar strategy in 1982/3: The consumer model and the Pro model. They respectively branded them "Macintosh" and "Lisa".
 
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I don’t believe that at all. Apple would not cancel a project like this just after launching the first gen product. I’m sure that they will even release a cheaper version along with the successor of the current one.
Why? Apple has dropped 1st generation products numerous times before in it’s history - eMate, Pippen, iSight, the USB puck mouse, the G4 Cube, 30 inch Cinema Display, Apple Pro Speakers, iPod HiF, Trash Can MacPro, iMac Pro… all ‘1st gen’ products - nine of which saw any updates.
 
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