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You can choose to believe whatever you want. That's fine.

Or you can see what prominent fund managers have done and admitted to in the past without any repercussions. Take Jim Cramer, for example. He's described simple stock manipulations that he used to do when he was a hedge fund manager to drive the price of a stock in a direction that he wanted to.

Here's a youtube link.


As for why Apple has dropped 6% today, of course there could be legit reasons. Obviously the market is spooked by flat iPhone sales. Combine that with Apple stating that they will no longer provide unit sales data for iPhone, that has everyone assuming that Apple is trying to hide falling iPhone sales going forward.

What I refer to is the continual flooding of negative Apple stories year after year, without anyone in the business attempting to refute, even in the face of being proven wrong over and over. That's the manipulation that happens.

At some point, when the stock has been beaten up enough, you'll see stories coming from the analysts as to why the next supercycle of iPhone is about to happen. Could be the very same analysts putting out the negative stories today. Of course they'll have notified their clients to buy AAPL before they publish their bullish reports.

In regards to the future, yes, eventually iPhone sales will plateau. Every market reaches saturation eventually. The smartphone market will not be the exception. The key will be whether Apple can withstand flat sales with higher ASP's or not. Right now, most analysts are bearish about that. I'm bullish on it. Apple sold the same number of iPhones last quarter as they did a year ago. Yet they grew revenue 28%. Eventually, they'll be unable to grow the ASP on flat/declining sales, so they better have another source of revenue handy when that happens.
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Totally agree. Apple has a track record of being able to pivot and creating an all new revenue stream. Services could be that stream, or maybe they have something up their sleeves.

EDIT - Here's an example of analysts and the media lying, but not lying.

View attachment 800630

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/02/heres-what-every-major-analyst-had-to-say-about-apples-earnings.html

DAMMIT - cnbc.com changed the link for that story above. Nevermind, I found the link in my browser history.

The headline here says Apple's guidance (referring to Q1-2019) is weak. For the record, Apple is guiding between $89 and $93 billion. In that article, JPMorgan's quote is that the avgEstimate is $92.6B and JPM's estimate is $93.1B. Apple routinely beats their high end guidance (I think something like 3 of the last four quarters and 7 of the last 8), which would put them at $93+B. Which would exceed the average and probably meet JPM's estimate. Yet the headline is "weaker guidance".

Note that the 92.6/93.1 estimates were raised in the two months leading up to yesterday. If the analysts had kept their original numbers (from Aug 1st), Apple guidance would be looked upon as "upbeat" or "herculian". Yet the major institutions all raised their estimates and they still couldn't get above Apple's guidance.

Tell me that's not manipulation.

Thanks for sharing video. We know most traders are dirty Cramer was pumping RH and Zuora recently. Look at what happened to their stock after lol.. Don’t expect honesty from a guy like Cramer
 
We just see the beginning of his prediction.
Like it or not but Apple cant grow to infinity, actually they are already declining that's the reason for hiding the numbers in the future.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-11-02/blain-what-apple-hiding
So you link me to zerohedge like that's a source of fact? It's an opinion article written by a kid who sounds like he posts here.

They are trying to get stupid analysts like the one you quoted who has been wrong about Apple forever to focus on the business, not the unit sales. APple constantly puts up crazy strong numbers but some silly analyst says, "BUT MY MODEL PREDICTED 51M and YOU ONLY DID 50M!!"

Apple probably should have done this 3 years ago, but I'm glad they are now.

When the revenue goes down, I'll change my outlook. Even if they sell fewer units, people paying more for a product they want isn't a bad thing. Revenue was up 20% y/y. The concern is real if Apple loses pricing power, but that hasn't happened. Even the unit sales this last quarter they reported were very strong...just not growing like services and revenue.
 
How they sell the data they mine - once again, they don't sell the data. Is it really that difficult to understand? Their revenue does not come through data mining. It comes from advertising. Data mining helps to make advertising to be better targeted.

Start a new thread because no one cares.
 
No it’s an argument that you use when you have no argument.
It’s a suggestion to a set of complaints that will never be rectified.

There are reasons why people buy things from companies even though they don’t like them as much as they used to.

Apple doesn’t get its requirements from forums, I never said it did.. I simply state that all companies listen to customers via multiple channels. Apple has listened and has given us replaceable memory in the Mac mini. So people complaining g does work.

Why do you thing that the only way to get companies to change is via the wallet. Surely you don’t think that is the only a way?
Complaining never really resolved anything. But under Tim Cook Apple does listen to its customers, it has to. Apple wouldn’t be at $1T if they didn’t somehoe know what their customers are thinking.
 
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No matter where you look, everyone with common sense is interpreting the move in the same way.

https://www.businessinsider.de/appl...t-iphone-sales-unit-numbers-2018-11?r=US&IR=T
You're not breaking news. People are pissed about this. No one that owns the stock for the long term cares about flat to slightly declining iPhone sales. We care about revenue, which is up 20%.

Of course there will be speculation, but it's the right move for AAPL long term.

As someone smarter than me said, does Procter and Gamble tell you how many razors they sold? Google doesn't even give guidance or disclose YouTube sales. Amazon doesn't give you a lot of detail either.

Apple had to make this change, ripping the bandaid off.

They also are going to give you MORE reporting around services, so they added disclosure there.
 
My shares dropped $14.74 per share today, but since I am not selling any, I am not worried.
"Apple made $8 billion more dollars selling iPhones than it did a year earlier (when it sold almost the exact same number of iPhones)."
 
Nope. You slammed him for being out of touch with regular people and then changed your argument to him not being a visionary when you were proven wrong on the former.
He is both a non-visionary and a filthy rich person out of touch with reality. I didn’t touch the goal posts. I didn’t even come near them.
 
Complaining never really resolved anything. But under Tim Cook Apple does listen to its customers, it has to. Apple wouldn’t be at $1T if they didn’t somehow know what their customers are thinking.

The highlighted segment ...

Surely, you don't mean that. Complaining has been getting results in all walks of life - sometimes, beheading, sometimes, solutions.

Confusing more so when you complete the paragraph with how Apple does listen - what are they listening to? Telepathic suggestions that don't sound like complaint?o_O
 
Google and Amazon never did, but Apple was using the unit sales figures to create the hype, now the hiding of this numbers has the reverse effect.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/when-the-going-gets-tough-apple-hides-its-numbers-2018-11-01
No one disputing Apple used to report unit sales. The business has changed...a lot. It no longer makes sense. Longer term, it’s good for investors to shift Apple away from a widget maker and get people to focus on the real story. Apple is a consumer products company.
 
The highlighted segment ...

Surely, you don't mean that. Complaining has been getting results in all walks of life - sometimes, beheading, sometimes, solutions.

Confusing more so when you complete the paragraph with how Apple does listen - what are they listening to? Telepathic suggestions that don't sound like complaint?o_O
Difference between complaining and constructive criticism?
 
The problem is apple makes too good of products. People are buying and holding the devices for longer now. They will eventually upgrade and yes the better devices hurt the yearly device numbers. However the service revenue is becoming the behemoth apple is intending it to be. People will buy devices and the fact that these devices are the most premium does cost them Thus passing the cost off to us. That is to be expected. If you want to have an essentially flawless phone tablet computer or even now watch experience you have to pay up. As long as services is growing substantially there is zero to worry about as device numbers really cannot tell the whole story.
 
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Basically increase profit margins to make up for dropping sales numbers. Getting rid of sales numbers of all items sold sounded like a way around all this but market and shareholders did not like this

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/tech/apple-iphone-metrics-problem/

So today Apple shares finished down -6.63% and actually down over 7% if you count in after hours sales

0311AE25-DBA3-4C53-9F93-D2A23D9D897D.jpeg


If you factor in losses for the week you will see that Apple lost over 10% from highs of the week

47383D54-7B85-45E5-9BDD-77813174F830.jpeg
 
Basically increase profit margins to make up for dropping sales numbers. Getting rid of sales numbers of all items sold sounded like a way around all this but market and shareholders did not like this

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/02/tech/apple-iphone-metrics-problem/

So today Apple shares finished down -6.63% and actually down over 7% if you count in after hours sales

View attachment 800812

If you factor in losses for the week you will see that Apple lost over 10% from highs of the week

View attachment 800814
And? This is 1 day. It’s better for the Apple story longer term.

Correction, iPhone sales were 218M in FY2018 and 216M in FY2017, so iPhone sales were up, not down. Revenue was up 20%, so all good.

Apple also beat the top and bottom line expectations, easily and showed 40% EPS growth.

Apple should have done this a long time ago because they are a consumer products company with growing services. The number of iPhones sold used to matter more, but now its more about the installed base.

They also announced greater visibility into services margins, so there will be additional metrics there.

I called for this years ago when analysts would moan about expecting 52M iPhone sales instead of 51M reported and totally ignore the insane numbers Apple was putting up quarter after quarter.
 
When it split 7:1 on June 09, 2014, the low price was $90.88 after the event. So, 250%.
It is not 250%; it’s 150%.

Two times as much is an increase of 100%. Two and a half times as much is an increase of 150%.

90*2.5=225.

$225 is 150% more than $90.
 
Or if this really bothers you, you can stop buying Apple products and sell your shares.

I buy the products I like and I see value in. But what baffles me in this thread, what people are cheering about. Product sales were flat and yet the profit went up by a huge amount. So Apples strategy is now to increase prices by an inproportial margin. I just don’t see any reason to be cheerful or happy about, if you are not a shareholder. But then again, I see Apple as a consumer electronic company, not as a religion or the center point of my admiration.
 
I buy the products I like and I see value in. But what baffles me in this thread, what people are cheering about. Product sales were flat and yet the profit went up by a huge amount. So Apples strategy is now to increase prices by an inproportial margin. I just don’t see any reason to be cheerful or happy about, if you are not a shareholder. But then again, I see Apple as a consumer electronic company, not as a religion or the center point of my admiration.
A lot of people are Apple shareholders either directly or indirectly via a mutual fund
 
The highlighted segment ...

Surely, you don't mean that. Complaining has been getting results in all walks of life - sometimes, beheading, sometimes, solutions.

Confusing more so when you complete the paragraph with how Apple does listen - what are they listening to? Telepathic suggestions that don't sound like complaint?o_O
I have been trying to be politically correct, complaining in a constructive manner typically may get an intended response. Many of these “complaints” sound more like whining.
 
A lot of people are Apple shareholders either directly or indirectly via a mutual fund
true some investors probably do not even know they own some through a MF.
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I buy the products I like and I see value in. But what baffles me in this thread, what people are cheering about. Product sales were flat and yet the profit went up by a huge amount. So Apples strategy is now to increase prices by an inproportial margin. I just don’t see any reason to be cheerful or happy about, if you are not a shareholder. But then again, I see Apple as a consumer electronic company, not as a religion or the center point of my admiration.
The fact that they are no longer reporting device numbers at this point is essentially irrelevant. Apple will sell devices regardless as many businesses are now rooted in the apple ecosystem and they will have the available funds to spend on premium high end devices. remember the economy is going/growing at a greater rate than recently seen and people have been more than happy to spend $50 a month on a phone. What to them is $56? thats nothing in the grand scheme to have the latest and greatest. As android users grow up they will realize their devices are less than that of the Apple devices and switch over (I mean as you get older you have no time to build PCs and worry about all the adult responsibility things that could be hacked into). Ill continue to get cheap shares as they make their first iPad and iPhone purchases and become ingrained into the apple services ecosystem. Apple basically controls pretty much all aspects of big tech. alot run google maps calendar etc through an Iphone, you order from amazon more than likely on an iPhone, you log onto facebook on what? probably an iPhone and over time more and more people will switch when they realize their data isn't as protected on the non iPhone devices as it is on the what? The iPhone. (apple ecosystem) Apple is doing it right by basically taking away the ONLY way for analysts to manipulate the stock price. This is scaring them why? Because they will now have one less thing to write about and get clicks off of and make money. Watch Apple will claw to new record highs why??? The revenue is beating expectations despite the manipulation on the device #s. Remember what buffet says about analysts. Investors invest and would be ignorant to ignore the incredible numbers that Apple puts out quarter after quarter.

Anyone that likes to play the device number game to buy or sell should watch the first 30 minutes of Wolf of Wall street. Realize that when they say something they are often doing the opposite or getting you trapped into their game to eventually take in your dollars.

Why is there always cheering when the opening and closing bell ring in New York? Because despite if you make money or lose money every trade that goes through they make money. Think about it. Buy and hold.

And for the love of God YES they will sell less devices because they actually make devices that last for YEARS. While doing so they have created an essentially whole new aspect of apple. (Services) It can be said that 40 something million iPhones sold in a quarter makes 40 million more or old users happy and more likely to STAY with apple in the long run. (Longevity) Name me ONE android device that has lasted as long as an iPhone 6s and that people still talk about today.... We have an iPhone 6s and it works flawlessly but the Xs MAX is the greatest phone ever made so I made that switch.

And we've only talked really about the iPhone above.... there is still the iPad, MacBook, Mini, Watch and so on and so forth. (all still strong and at the top of their categories)
 
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No one disputing Apple used to report unit sales. The business has changed...a lot. It no longer makes sense. Longer term, it’s good for investors to shift Apple away from a widget maker and get people to focus on the real story. Apple is a consumer products company.

I agree Apple is shifting from a widget maker to be a landlord.
 
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This is the same "report" from "inside sources" at Nikkei.

Here's the ridiculousness of this whole thing. A few months ago, the "reports" were that the X was selling really well and that would impact the demand for the Xs/Max. Then when that turned out to be false, the "reports" then were changed to be that the Xr was so popular that the higher margin Xs/Max were going to be impacted. Now, the "reports" are that that Xr is not popular so Apple is DOOMED.

No one ever questions these analysts when they are proven wrong time and time again.

If the Xr is not popular and Apple is truly cancelling previously reserved production capacity for the Xr, where is the follow up by the Nikkei guys? If I were an analyst or reporter, I'd be all over this nugget of information. I'd be checking to see if Apple used the reserved production capacity for increased production of other models, like the Xs/Max.

But of course, there's no follow-up. Probably because there is no story here.

I'm just here riding the wave.
 
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