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Apple Requesting Potential Motorola Bond of Up to $16 Billion in German Patent Case
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And, as a matter of fact, your post kinda hits a nerve. I suspect you are a teenager, but in the event that you aren't, I will respond..
Yes, a a matter of fact, I do visit automobile forums (as I have 2 collector vehicles) and yes, I do see people pointing out weaknesses in certain models or components... To point out the weakness of the GM 2.8 engine's wrist pins is not to being "Anti GM", ... to point out the problems with the cross fire engines in the C4 Corvettes is not "Anti Chevy".... That type of thinking is beyond childish....
I see very few "Anti-Apple" posts on this forum. I do see a lot of posts about legitimate problems and legitimate complaints about Apple's products, services, and business practices by dedicated Apple users. What is wrong with intelligent discourse ???
A forum dedicated to hero worship with a bunch of morons who can only shake their head in the affirmative wouldn't be a discussion forum at all - it would be a pep rally.
Apple makes good products - and so does Google, Microsoft, Moto, HTC, Samsung, and a myriad of other companies. All of them also have their misfires. If you can't see that then you are the one walking through life with your eyes closed.
Wake up or grow up....
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Thanks, much needed
Some people just cannot handle seeing their beloved being criticized
The implication being that the response to the criticism in some way helps to validate it. I am so tired of this forum. I have read your comments in some form or another thousands of times. Indeed I have read all posts here thousands of times. Hover above it all and look down: how pathetic we all are.
I might be too tired or just stupid but can you rephrase your post to make it less confusing?
AFAIK, you're saying all sides in this thread are pathetic? If it is the case, care to give a reason?
I don't know if you hang out in different threads than I do, but there are tons of anti-Apple posters here. I 100% agree that valid criticisms should be discussed here, but there are MANY posters who come here to only say negative things about Apple. That is not constructive and is not meant to foster discussion. I think part of the issue is that single comments by these people don't seem that bad, but when placed into their posting history it's always the same thing.
I'm also not sure why this meme is repeated that if we didn't have these anti-Apple people the place would suddenly turn into an Apple love fest. I see plenty of discussion going on about Apple and it's products from both viewpoints before the "trolls" come in. I think it's hilarious that because a forum dedicated to a company and it's products obviously has some fanatic members that somehow every member who doesn't consistently say negative things about Apple is labeled a fanboy.
I also want to point out that having negative opinions about some things related to Apple doesn't make you a troll; having only negative things to say about Apple does. A good example of this is KnightWRX: he often criticizes Apple (sometimes wrongly, I feel) but the man is open to discussion and I've seen plenty of positive posts by him as well. He actually has an interest in Apple and just may not like every aspect of it but the people that most members complain about ONLY post negative things.
Excuse any errors, I typed it on my phone as quickly as I could!
And you are 100% right, no matter what forums you go to, you will have trolls blindly hating anything.
I won't say someone is a fanboy to someone who just doesn't consistently say negative things about Apple. But it does become fanboyism if you spend your time hating the biggest competitor when you are praising everything the one you prefer does. And lot of users here are like that, I am not going to name them because they come out pretty obvious.
And if you read my posts, you will see that I rarely/never bash Apple. I mostly criticize people that blindly hates Android/Blackberry/etc. I will bash people that are hypocritical in their arguments against something. I love the Apple products that I own, if I didn't like one, I just sold them because their value barely goes down. I don't hang around at MacRumors to bash fanboys but to read news/rumors about the next Macbook.
I just find fanboyism to be so shameful as it stops people from being open to new things
Let me give you just one small example: The reception on my iPhone 4 is substandard. I don't care what any person on this forum says, I don't care about Jobs' "All smartphones have problems" rant. There is/was a problem with the iPhone 4 antenna. My wife and I both have one and when we have no service, I simply pullout my old 3GS and make phone calls. In my opinion, this isn't even a theory - it's a fact... My 1st generation and my 3G would also make/get calls where these things can't... I'm not making this statement for any other reason than the "fact it's a fact"...
For bringing this up, I have been called a "Hater", a "Troll", and of course (my favorite) "On Google's payroll"..... Of course, Consumer Reports dared to point this out also. They were declared the enemy!!! An organization that should be boycotted.. For what??? Telling the truth!!!
Mobile Me sucked (I lost emails), The Palm Rest on my white MacBook is cracked. Windows 7 isn't "Crappy" and Android is not "Clunky"....
How about this intelligent post "Bye Bye Microsoft. I say they're toast in 2 years"......
Yep, everything without an Apple logo is "Crappy, Junky, and Clunky" and Microsoft is going out of business in 2 years. I'm lying when I say the case on my laptop cracked under normal usage, and I'm on Microsoft's payroll because I own a PC in addition to my many Macs... My iPhone 4 has the best reception of any phone I ever owned, and I am of course lying about it on an Internet Blog...
Read some of the Crap here by LTD, a person who obviously knows NOTHING (absolutely nothing about business or technology) other than the fact that everything Apple makes is the best and if you choose not to agree with him, then you are, of course, an idiot...
These are just a few examples of the daily nonsense fanboys spew on a daily basis. If people aren't seeing this crap then they are not only visiting different threads, but a different world than I am....
And yet, all that is totally irrelevant, because this is evidence presented by a party in a court of law and the opponent has every right to dispute it.
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Possibly the dumbest analogy I have ever read on this site. Apple fanboys=scary, bloodthirsty organ-harvesting cultists? Are you one of those people who write anonymous comments on right-wing blogs-- you certainly sound like one.
Ah, yes you are correct. The deal hasn't been approved by the DOJ/SEC or the European Commission, but it has been approved by shareholders. But really there's no reason the merger won't go through. One thing Apple can't claim anymore is being an underdog.
( I really hope you're not splitting hairs on Motorola versus Motorola Mobility. We're all talking about the latter here. )
But as far as the patent portfolio is concerned, it's Google's one way or another. After Apple's win against Samsung, Motorola knew Apple was coming after it. Their suit and injunction is to gain leverage in that case.
Did Google start courting Motorola beforehand? Not before Apple nailed HTC and won the injunction with Samsung.
Wow, can't win your argument by sticking to the facts, you need to redirect things I said instead?
I didn't say anything about the judges. Since Google isn't on trial here, it would be unlikely the judges would care too much about what they've done.
Which is of course more to my point... All these companies are fighting Apple but they're doing so for the ultimate benefit of Google. They're being used.
Google is directly influencing these companies by providing them money, resources, and other factors and indirectly through their role as the only public perceived viable alternative to iOS.
Whether HTC wins or loses, whether motorola wins or loses... who stands to gain the most? ( other than Apple ) Google.
Thus my "war by proxy" statement.
I hope Apple rips out Motorola's heart
If it wasn't for Motorola, you wouldn't have an iPhone.
In case you missed it, Apple is already decimating their competition in the market. The reason Apple is in the courtroom, is that the competition, which has proven itself unable to compete in the market, have resorted to playing these games, and Apple is not going to sit idly by when it now has a litany of its own patents that it can drag out and say, "ORLY?"
Jurl, you have to search better, you have the timeline totally confused.
Ps, a little secret, Motorola suit was BEFORE Apple won the injunction in Germany.
Ps, another secret, Google disclosed that they would buy MM BEFORE Apple won an injunction in Germany and BEFORE they "nailed" HTC.
And, what win against Samsung are you talking of?
No, you have said "but you're a fool if you don't think Steve Jobs was right about every aspect of Google ripping Apple off"
So, I repeat, what aspects?
And I repeat, do you think Dutch judges are fools because they didn't see any rip off?
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Really? If Apple is decimating competition how is that Samsung sell more smartphones than them?
And you know that has been Apple in some cases the one that has "resorted to play these games, don't you?
The odd thing is that your post has just mirrored precisely what was on my mind!
I may be wrong, but the general impression I am getting from the discussion herethus far, is that people are against these lawsuits not so much because they feel it is unwarranted, but because they believe they will be disadvantaged from in some way from the fallout, such fewer new products entering the market or higher prices overall.
So they don't really care who is in the right or wrong, because the consequences don't impact them one bit. I just want my apple products, stop all this finger-pointing at once! So what if Apple's creations were pirated and they really have a legitimate case on their hands? I still get my iphones at the end of the day. I don't own apple stock, to heck if they suffer any losses as a result of this.
But if Samsung were to get sued, that might mean no more galaxy phones. And apparently, people here prefer to be able to see galaxy tabs go on sale than seeing justice done.
But if Samsung were to get sued, that might mean no more galaxy phones. And apparently, people here prefer to be able to see galaxy tabs go on sale than seeing justice done.
And people here that own an iPad want to see the Tab off the shelf... How does it matter to you? At worse, it is Apple losing money, not you...
I never said it mattered, it was simply an observation on my part.
Besides, why would they want to see the tab off the shelf? They have their ipad, the existence of the tab won't really make their experience any better or worse.
I'm an iPad owner. Personally I don't give a rats petootie whether the Tab is on or off the shelves.
If you want to talk about LTD's knowledge of business, or lack thereof, then I'd say that those who think other companies charge less for their products in order to "pass on savings" to the consumer know even less about business than LTD does. People seem to think that Apple should say, "You know what, we're making too much money so we're going to cut our prices to pass on some savings to the consumer."
Apple critics are no stranger to spewing nonsense! Dozens of people have criticized Apple's move and not one of them has offered an iota of rational arguments to back up their criticism.
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Spot on. The anti apple hatred stifles legitimate discussions here. People who like apple products but have criticisms and issues never end up discussing them because threads are deluged with absurdist hatred. So instead of issues being discussed in depth by people with a vested interest you have people fighting not to be called offsides by people who apparently have no positive areas of interest in their lives.
The idea that people who only post apple bashing comments are benefiting the discussion is ludacris. The are horribly damaging the ability for higher quality conversations to take place.
And for people who legitimately think the hate Apple this is probably not the place for you. Blind hatred does not equate to quality discourse. Go somewhere and discuss something you enjoy or use, and if that is impossible go create a forum where you can share your hatred of apple with others.
It is not normal to be hanging out in places to discuss whatever topic and only post vitriol and hate about it. It is not normal and it is not healthy.
DeathChill said:
Spot on. The anti apple hatred stifles legitimate discussions here. People who like apple products but have criticisms and issues never end up discussing them because threads are deluged with absurdist hatred. So instead of issues being discussed in depth by people with a vested interest you have people fighting not to be called offsides by people who apparently have no positive areas of interest in their lives.
The idea that people who only post apple bashing comments are benefiting the discussion is ludacris. The are horribly damaging the ability for higher quality conversations to take place.
And for people who legitimately think the hate Apple this is probably not the place for you. Blind hatred does not equate to quality discourse. Go somewhere and discuss something you enjoy or use, and if that is impossible go create a forum where you can share your hatred of apple with others.
It is not normal to be hanging out in places to discuss whatever topic and only post vitriol and hate about it. It is not normal and it is not healthy.
Please, this is not the proper place to make jokes.
Someone who insults everyone with a differing opinion by calling them mentally ill shouldn't be talking about quality discourse.
Marksman, YOU and quality discourse obviously don't go together.
My Friend, I am NOT an "Apple Hater" by any means. If I was, I would not have such a major investment in Apple for running my livelihood. And I agree about pricing - Any manufacture can put any price on any product they make. If people want it, they will buy it - if they don't, they won't. It's not complicated...
That said, Apple computers are absolutely overpriced for what you are getting. Unlike many Mac users (more so fanboys), I DO understand what makes a computer work.. I understand hardware and I understand software. I took the time to study both hardware and software in college many years ago, have always worked on my own systems, and have done repair (even at a logic board level).
Note, in contrast most Mac fanboys know absolutely nothing about computer systems nor do they wish to learn. Don't believe me????... Ask one how the processor and GPU compares to a similarly priced Dell. Your answer will be something like "Oh Golly gee, who cares - Apple doesn't cater to "tinkerers" My Mac just works. It's so gorgeous and elegant. It's better than any crappy Dell. Woooo Hooo Steve".
Take a browser trip to "Mac Daily News", a "News" site run by one little fanboy, Steve Jack. Or as he writes about himself "The Staff here at MDN would like to thank our own Steve Jack....." ...(Does nonsense like this make fanboys feel important?????) At MDN, You will learn than anyone who uses a Windows PC is a "Sufferer" or an "idiot" and any non-Apple Computer is manufactured by "Box Assemblers" ...
So I'm sorry, I don't buy into the Fanboy Clap Track. Everyone who chooses to use a PC isn't a "sufferer" or "looser (Yeah - Fanboys can't even spell it right"), Not all PC's are "crappy" or "clunky", and I could care less how "delicious" or "elegant" Mac is.
If I criticize something, I do it based on knowledge and education - - not some emotional rant or religious hero worship - and at any rate, equating criticism of an electronic product with the human emotion of Hatred is childish at best, and ignorant at worst....
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I don't normally agree with *LTD* because he used to live inside Steve Jobs pants and has never in his life ever criticized Apple nor is it in his DNA to do so, so I generally discount anything he says about Apple even when he is correct.
In this case he is correct in his comparison of Apple vs. Microsoft.
And it should be noted that the only reason Microsoft ever invested millions of dollars in Apple to keep it afloat in bad times was because ultimately Microsoft knew it had infringed on many of Steve Jobs patents and would ultimately lose, but Apple was not in a financial position at the time to fight the good fight. If Apple had had the resources at the time, there might not be a Windows operating system as we know it today.
However, with Apple now being the big dog, it's also important to note that Steve Jobs specifically stated that they patented the hell out of the iPhone (and hence the iPad technology as well) and warned competitors publicly that they would fiercely defend the design.
So you can't say Steve Jobs didn't give fair warning not to copy it.
However, unlike with Microsoft, where Apple really couldn't afford to fight MS for very long and Bill Gates knew it, this time Apple does have the resources to fight even Google if they want to.
The patents that Samsung and Motorola are fighting over are basically more under the hood technology that Apple has licensed from suppliers and utilized. While Apple probably owes them money, it's arguable that the suppliers of said technology that already have licensed said technology insulate Apple to some degree.
Do I think Apple owes Samsung and Motorola some money? YES.
But comparatively, it's chump change compared to copying an entire design like the iPhone. Sure, there were touch screen phones that pre-date the iPhone, but none really like it. And it's clear, these manufacturers have copied Apple's look and feel design.
Some people might debate whether you should be able to patent such things, but look at it this way... If Toyota designed a car body that looked exactly like a Ford or Chevy, would there not be a lawsuit?
Steve Jobs threw out the warning flag to these companies and they called his bluff, but he wasn't bluffing. The intellectual property they've stolen is an entire concept for a product, far more theft than the use of syncing and various chips that everyone uses in cell phones. That's peanuts.
So, at the risk of being accused of being a fanboy, I applaud Apple in defending their patents.
It's not a coincidence that Steve Jobs has more patents under his belt than Bill Gates or probably either of these 2 companies.
In this case he is correct in his comparison of Apple vs. Microsoft.
And it should be noted that the only reason Microsoft ever invested millions of dollars in Apple to keep it afloat in bad times was because ultimately Microsoft knew it had infringed on many of Steve Jobs patents and would ultimately lose, but Apple was not in a financial position at the time to fight the good fight. If Apple had had the resources at the time, there might not be a Windows operating system as we know it today.
However, with Apple now being the big dog, it's also important to note that Steve Jobs specifically stated that they patented the hell out of the iPhone (and hence the iPad technology as well) and warned competitors publicly that they would fiercely defend the design.
So you can't say Steve Jobs didn't give fair warning not to copy it.
However, unlike with Microsoft, where Apple really couldn't afford to fight MS for very long and Bill Gates knew it, this time Apple does have the resources to fight even Google if they want to.
The patents that Samsung and Motorola are fighting over are basically more under the hood technology that Apple has licensed from suppliers and utilized. While Apple probably owes them money, it's arguable that the suppliers of said technology that already have licensed said technology insulate Apple to some degree.
Do I think Apple owes Samsung and Motorola some money? YES.
But comparatively, it's chump change compared to copying an entire design like the iPhone. Sure, there were touch screen phones that pre-date the iPhone, but none really like it. And it's clear, these manufacturers have copied Apple's look and feel design.
Some people might debate whether you should be able to patent such things, but look at it this way... If Toyota designed a car body that looked exactly like a Ford or Chevy, would there not be a lawsuit?
Steve Jobs threw out the warning flag to these companies and they called his bluff, but he wasn't bluffing. The intellectual property they've stolen is an entire concept for a product, far more theft than the use of syncing and various chips that everyone uses in cell phones. That's peanuts.
So, at the risk of being accused of being a fanboy, I applaud Apple in defending their patents.
It's not a coincidence that Steve Jobs has more patents under his belt than Bill Gates or probably either of these 2 companies.
I'm really starting to feel that the whole software-writing community just needs to go away. Let's go back to 1980 and just screw up software and personal computing somehow. I realize that would put us back a couple decades as of now, and we wouldn't have cool things like smartphones, yet....but, **** you people need to get over yourselves and turn into useful members of the planet. Oh, and you can bring everyone involved with the NBA with you.
Pathetic.
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It's funny you should end that rant with this drivel. Because you obviously know NOTHING about the people you are berating. Not a ****ing thing. Your HATRED of those PEOPLE is disgusting, and makes childish look wonderful.
Don't give a damn about what you think you know about the hardware. Means nothing.
I never said it mattered, it was simply an observation on my part.
Besides, why would they want to see the tab off the shelf? They have their ipad, the existence of the tab won't really make their experience any better or worse.
That's the point, they find it so important for no absolute reason, they feel like they have to defend the iPad at any cost...