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The new iTunes is so plain looking.

Remember the question Bono asked Steve Jobs: "Why does iTunes look like a spreadsheet?"

Between music, movies, TV shows, books, podcasts ... there's just too much data to deliver. Perhaps it's time to split iTunes off into separate apps for the separate media, and another app just for syncing. That would certainly lighten up the current bloat.
 
You're missing the point. Nobody is complaining about people bringing up their issues with Apple products, nor is anybody suggesting that such behavior should stop.

Perhaps "The Barron" should clarify his point of post #31 then. I've re-read it again and I still interpret that as wanting those finding any fault with Apple anything to go away... as if this site would be much more what he/she wants it to be if it was all praise & rah-rah.

You on the other hand seem to be making a different point with...

Just today, I posted a thread about how Touch ID hasn't been working very well for me. But so many vocal complainers seem to have fundamental disagreements with the way Apple conducts business and the direction that the company is going, and never miss a single opportunity to turn thread after thread into another podium to proselytize whoever will listen. Which is certainly their right, but it boggles my mind why someone would continue to even consider buying products from a company that obviously chaps their hide raw. I sure know I wouldn't.

But even there, I doubt many come here solely to gripe about Apple. I think many of the complaints reflect care for Apple. Personally, I own a bunch of Apple stuff myself but I'll sometimes find great fault with Apple decisions. Why? Not to bash Apple for bashing sake (that would be a pointless waste of time). Because I wish Apple would deliver more, do better, delight me as their customer.

Apple tends to be a leader in one way or another. They've positioned themselves to deliver the "it just works", "magical", next big thing. So we expect it. And when they roll out iterative and/or buggy, we're disappointed. We doubt the competition can deliver the same kind of "wow" so we want it from Apple. But if they let us down, some of us are not so quick to look over it and/or spin it like we are paid Apple PR representatives.

If you posted a thread about TouchID not working well for you and it became a griping thread at Apple about TouchID, maybe there's some merit there to those gripes? How long has TouchID been out now? Still not working for you? Or maybe broken for you with recent updates? If either, that's not very "it just works" and "magical" Apple-like.

If a company sets high expectations and under-delivers, complaints will follow. If it's a small niche player, it won't have a big enough audience to have that many complainers. But if its a gigantic company with gigantic customer growth, it will have more complainers. Scale begets more happy and more unhappy customers. Apple is GIANT now.

In my business, I help my clients see constructive complainers as at least as valuable as "rah-rah cheerleaders". I often sling the phrase: if my house is on fire, I don't want to be told how nice my landscaping looks. Complaints are an opportunity to do better. Universal rah-rah is begging for complacency because everything is apparently perfect. Given the choice of the two, I'd rather have the former. But it's not the choice here. Instead, this site gets the mix of Apple can do no wrong in everything, Apple can do no right in everything and the middle moderates where I think the best discussion & debates are based.
 
I really hate the flat borderless bright colors the entire Tech industry has moved to. It looks awful, it's confusing, all sense of depth is removed. It also removes any sense of important information. I can't wait for this fad to die out.
As one of the people who was whining about iOS looking dated, you need to man up and accept your share of responsibility.

----------

Perhaps "The Barron" should clarify his point of post #31 then. I've re-read it again and I still interpret that as wanting those finding any fault with Apple anything to go away... as if this site would be much more what he/she wants it to be if it was all praise & rah-rah.

You on the other hand seem to be making a different point with...



But even there, I doubt many come here solely to gripe about Apple. I think many of the complaints reflect care for Apple. Personally, I own a bunch of Apple stuff myself but I'll sometimes find great fault with Apple decisions. Why? Not to bash Apple for bashing sake (that would be a pointless waste of time). Because I wish Apple would deliver more, do better, delight me as their customer.

Apple tends to be a leader in one way or another. They've positioned themselves to deliver the "it just works", "magical", next big thing. So we expect it. And when they roll out iterative and/or buggy, we're disappointed. We doubt the competition can deliver the same kind of "wow" so we want it from Apple. But if they let us down, some of us are not so quick to look over it and/or spin it like we are paid Apple PR representatives.

If you posted a thread about TouchID not working well for you and it became a griping thread at Apple about TouchID, maybe there's some merit there to those gripes? How long has TouchID been out now? Still not working for you? Or maybe broken for you with recent updates? If either, that's not very "it just works" and "magical" Apple-like.

If a company sets high expectations and under-delivers, complaints will follow. If it's a small niche player, it won't have a big enough audience to have that many complainers. But if its a gigantic company with gigantic customer growth, it will have more complainers. Scale begets more happy and more unhappy customers. Apple is GIANT now.

In my business, I help my clients see constructive complainers as at least as valuable as "rah-rah cheerleaders". I often sling the phrase: if my house is on fire, I don't want to be told how nice my landscaping looks. Complaints are an opportunity to do better. Universal rah-rah is begging for complacency because everything is apparently perfect. Given the choice of the two, I'd rather have the former. But it's not the choice here. Instead, this site gets the mix of Apple can do no wrong in everything, Apple can do no right in everything and the middle moderates where I think the best discussion & debates are based.
Apparently you can't differentiate between constructive criticism (typical Apple thread at Ars) vs. whining (any MR thread). The latter lacks any constructive suggestions and is filled with complaints about future products the whiner has yet to even try. "I can't wait to see what they messed up this time" is a direct quote from this thread. It is off topic and has no substance as the person knows zero about the product they have never used. It is not constructive criticism.
 
You're missing the point. Nobody is complaining about people bringing up their issues with Apple products, nor is anybody suggesting that such behavior should stop. Just today, I posted a thread about how Touch ID hasn't been working very well for me. But so many vocal complainers seem to have fundamental disagreements with the way Apple conducts business and the direction that the company is going, and never miss a single opportunity to turn thread after thread into another podium to proselytize whoever will listen. Which is certainly their right, but it boggles my mind why someone would continue to even consider buying products from a company that obviously chaps their hide raw. I sure know I wouldn't.

Perhaps because people invested in the Apple ecosystem at a time when Apple did not mess up as much as it does now.

Also, this forum works when things are focused around Apple. Whiners can whine about Apple and drones can sing about Apple. It gets screwed up when whiners talk about drones and drones talk about whiners. That is something that can be totally avoided. An example was your initial comment. Totally unnecessary and in retrospect, so is this :)
 
Remember the question Bono asked Steve Jobs: "Why does iTunes look like a spreadsheet?"

Between music, movies, TV shows, books, podcasts ... there's just too much data to deliver. Perhaps it's time to split iTunes off into separate apps for the separate media, and another app just for syncing. That would certainly lighten up the current bloat.

Agreed. Split iTunes up into a "suite." You can have the following;

iTunes Music
iTunes TV & Movies
iTunes Audiobooks
iTunes U
iTunes Podcasts
iTunes Apps
iBooks
iTunes Sync

EDIT:

Or if that's too convoluted, iTunes can be split up into just two "apps." (1) iTunes, which contains all the stores & content. (2) iTunes Sync, which allows you to sync content to and manage your iOS devices.

Apple can do this for OSX & Windows machines.
 
Good call, yet interesting still is the fact the first year Corvette and even the first generation Apple computer is worth much more than their brand new counterparts.

Because they are rare, not because of performance. Though some prefer the look of older cars.

That's like saying a 1880 penny is worth more than 1980 penny... Guess the 1880 one is "better" ;-).
 
Apparently you can't differentiate between constructive criticism (typical Apple thread at Ars) vs. whining (any MR thread). The latter lacks any constructive suggestions and is filled with complaints about future products the whiner has yet to even try. "I can't wait to see what they messed up this time" is a direct quote from this thread. It is off topic and has no substance as the person knows zero about the product they have never used. It is not constructive criticism.

Even an "I can't wait to see what they messed up this time" comment can be constructive. Instead of seeing it as whine for whining sake (which it very well might be), it might also be a comment reflecting too many "it just DOESN'T work" errors lately by Apple. So, it in and of itself may add little-to-nothing to the topic at hand but it popping up in many threads more than some "normal" amount of time could be quite good as a sentiment gauge for Apple quality control.

Over the long run, Apple has done a pretty good job of attaching "it just works" to their name. Apple followers expect the stuff they buy to "just work". We just had the 8.0.1 iOS issue. How could that have possibly made it out the door? Those were not inconsequential, small detail features that were broken. I might even call them very much core features of iPhones.

If I was advising Apple and I saw a rise in that kind of sentiment on a site like this one, I'd be telling Apple to step up the quality control. Resume and/or enhance the attention-to-detail that they have historically demonstrated so that 8.0.1-type events are minimized. If they did that, would there still be some who are truly whiners? Of course, there are always some whiners no matter what. But then again, there's always their opposites too (those guys who are overly pro Apple such that the more objective person can't find much value in their posts either)

That said, I agree that there is a pool of people that come here seeming to just stir the pot. But there's also a group that comes here that are so pro-Apple, their posts border on the ridiculous. I'd personally like to be able to ignore both groups and only see the posts of "the rest" (in the middle) as I think I personally learn the most from that middle group.

However, I don't think the consistently negative group's numbers are as big as probably perceived. I do think the positive-to-fanboi-positive group is so sensitive-to-hyper-sensitive that the perception that the always-negative crowd's numbers seem larger than they are.

Personally, I think I sit in the middle somewhere. If so, I feel the bias of the crowd as a whole is much more "Apple can do no wrong" than "Apple can do no right" If you doubt that, pick a random thread and count up the counterpoint to each kind of very extreme post. For example, take note of a overly negative post and count how much rebuttal it gets. Then notice a similar overly positive post and count how much rebuttal it gets. My gut feel would be that the former would get more-to-much-more counterpoint than the latter. But I bet those with this perception would guess it the other way before they actually did the math.
 
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Perhaps "The Barron" should clarify his point of post #31 then. I've re-read it again and I still interpret that as wanting those finding any fault with Apple anything to go away... as if this site would be much more what he/she wants it to be if it was all praise & rah-rah.

You on the other hand seem to be making a different point with...



But even there, I doubt many come here solely to gripe about Apple. I think many of the complaints reflect care for Apple. Personally, I own a bunch of Apple stuff myself but I'll sometimes find great fault with Apple decisions. Why? Not to bash Apple for bashing sake (that would be a pointless waste of time). Because I wish Apple would deliver more, do better, delight me as their customer.

Apple tends to be a leader in one way or another. They've positioned themselves to deliver the "it just works", "magical", next big thing. So we expect it. And when they roll out iterative and/or buggy, we're disappointed. We doubt the competition can deliver the same kind of "wow" so we want it from Apple. But if they let us down, some of us are not so quick to look over it and/or spin it like we are paid Apple PR representatives.

If you posted a thread about TouchID not working well for you and it became a griping thread at Apple about TouchID, maybe there's some merit there to those gripes? How long has TouchID been out now? Still not working for you? Or maybe broken for you with recent updates? If either, that's not very "it just works" and "magical" Apple-like.

If a company sets high expectations and under-delivers, complaints will follow. If it's a small niche player, it won't have a big enough audience to have that many complainers. But if its a gigantic company with gigantic customer growth, it will have more complainers. Scale begets more happy and more unhappy customers. Apple is GIANT now.

In my business, I help my clients see constructive complainers as at least as valuable as "rah-rah cheerleaders". I often sling the phrase: if my house is on fire, I don't want to be told how nice my landscaping looks. Complaints are an opportunity to do better. Universal rah-rah is begging for complacency because everything is apparently perfect. Given the choice of the two, I'd rather have the former. But it's not the choice here. Instead, this site gets the mix of Apple can do no wrong in everything, Apple can do no right in everything and the middle moderates where I think the best discussion & debates are based.

I honestly don't have the time to respond to every one of your points, but that is an excellent and well-written post. I understand your viewpoint, and it makes complete sense- you're not going to praise something that you think is below Apple's standard, and you're not going to pretend to be okay with it. I guess where you and I differ is that my expectation of Apple isn't as high- I've come to terms with the fact that Apple is like any other company when it comes to the amount and severity of bugs in their software, or defects in their hardware. The reason I keep coming back is that far more often than not, it does indeed "just work" for me.

Regarding my issues with Touch ID, I don't place too much importance on that because it does "just work" for most people. I recognize that like all technology, it's not perfect, and I just might be one of the people that it's not going to work well for. I also don't know yet- maybe it will recognize my fingers better over time? It's hard for me to make a definitive judgment on it yet. In the meantime, the rest of my experience with iOS 8 and the iPhone 6 is excellent. 8.0.1 being the lone exception, of course. :D

By the way, I love that quote- "If my house is on fire, I don't want to be told how nice my landscaping looks". And for what it's worth, we do need people to tell Apple what isn't working for them. I just think the way so many people on this site go about doing that is crude and unproductive.

Perhaps because people invested in the Apple ecosystem at a time when Apple did not mess up as much as it does now.

Also, this forum works when things are focused around Apple. Whiners can whine about Apple and drones can sing about Apple. It gets screwed up when whiners talk about drones and drones talk about whiners. That is something that can be totally avoided. An example was your initial comment. Totally unnecessary and in retrospect, so is this :)

I don't think Apple is messing up considerably more now than any other time in their history- I think people just tend to view the past with a more nostalgic lens. The Nintendo 64 seems magical to me, for example, but that's because my mind tends to gloss over the times that I had a game crash because somebody so much as touched the console the wrong way and cause the cartridge to get dislodged, and the extremely high price of each game.

And your point about drones and whiners makes sense, but I think it's time we had a discussion about this. I, for one, enjoy the conversations I'm having with people that I usually would disagree with. Maybe this isn't the place to be doing it, I admit... :p
 
I just think the way so many people on this site go about doing that is crude and unproductive.

I agree but the other way too: ...the way so many people on this site go about praising Apple no matter what can also be unproductive.

I personally find little value or learn little from posts at either end of the range. The Apple can do no wrong and Apple can do no right crowds both lose all credibility when everything Apple is always positive/negative. I sometimes see the name of the poster and know what their take on the topic is going to be before I even read what they've posted. I love to see the IDs of those I know can go either way on any given topic. That will generally be the good stuff (IMO).

If you think about this kind of site as a place to share thoughts, ideas and debate them, then we need the more positive and more negative. All rah-rah would kill all debate. All bashing/whining would also kill all debate. You need some sides of an issue to have much of a discussion. Else the "I'm first" post could gush a bunch of praise or a bunch of bash/whine and then the subsequent 500 posts could all be "this" posts quoting post #2. Can you say BORING?
 
Im not a fan of this "flatness everywhere" design philosophy, but if it removes Coverflow from all of my devices, I'll concede.

Yes, yes ... and we need less pixels on that rectangles and fonts , 'cause , you know, they are to "realistic" .... for that matter, why not go full command line itunes ?

Did they implement a better way on that tab " edit your contacts " and " manage your photo folders" ? ..... oh, wait, there was none.
 
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Not loving the new design. The layout is pretty frustrating and its hard to navigate. I miss having the side bar. Now it's only available in the playlists tab.
 
Your post is an example of what I'm talking about. Why suggest something so extreme as disconnecting my internet? For that matter, somebody already tried hacking into my MacRumors account today, so maybe you're not the only one suggesting that I simply shut up.

What I don't understand is why so many people exaggerate every single negative facet of Apple and their products. Yes, I experience issues with Apple products just like the people I call whiners. I am not suggesting that Apple is perfect. But when I experience an issue, I either figure out a solution on my own, or ask the users here for help, making sure I remember to thank the users who give me advice- I don't always do a great job at that, but I try. What I don't do is turn my thread into an emotionally charged rant over how my single issue shows that Apple is going downhill, or flame those who haven't experienced my issue.

At the end of the day, I know that my money is mine to spend on whatever I want- if Apple products no longer meet my needs, I know that I have other options. I won't need to try to exaggerate the issues I have or convince people to side with me against Apple. I'll just buy something from another manufacturer like HTC or Motorola.

I think the ones that are most tied at the hip to Apple are the ones that can't seem to let go when it's obviously time.



Not sure how shutting off your internet is a form of hacking but that scares me that you think that way, makes me wonder if you understand why people are complaining or you just enjoy worrying about complainers.
 
Not loving the new design. The layout is pretty frustrating and its hard to navigate. I miss having the side bar. Now it's only available in the playlists tab.

Ugh, that really sucks...after they hid it by default I was afraid they'd come and take it away later...so here they've gone and done it...

Better download the last v11.x installer while I still can (for future reinstalls). Had to be in Snow Leopard this evening, absolutely beautiful and so darn responsive compared to Mavericks...
 
I hope this means that scrolling through the store won't be a stuttery mess? The mac app store scrolls fine so they really shouldn't have a problem fixing the itunes store. Even scrolling through my own library stutters... I mean, really?
 
Bunch of off-topic whining about 8.0.1
There are plenty of 8.0.1 threads, you can keep that crap out of this one. There are also plenty of Apple quality control has gone to **** threads, feel free to pile on one of those or start your own. (Guess you can't remember Mobile Me). All I'm asking is that you keep your criticisms to the topic at hand, which is the iTunes 12 app store, and refrain from whining if you haven't even tried the software. That's pretty reasonable.
 
I'm surprised the whole store isn't in grey scale and is colorless. The new iTunes is so plain looking.

What is the opposite of skeumorphism?

The new "Retina BW iMac", automatically downloads Pixar movies in full 240P spectacular black and white.
 

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Maybe because people have spent lots of time and money buying into the echo-system. Apple were about attention to detail. Every little pixel was important.

If you're invested in something so much, you've got a right a bitch and complain all you want when they ruin it.

Well said.
 
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