Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.

[drech]

Then guess what? Buy a Windows-based PC. That's not so hard is it. Or do you and everyone hear just love to bitch and complain. If you don't like the outdated hardware, why come here and complain? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's mind on this forum?

You've misunderstood my post. I'm not complaining about current hardware. In fact, I said it suits most users and that upgrades really only affect power users.

My complaint is about the pricing. Do you not agree that charging premium prices for the current Apple hardware is dubious at best? It takes advantage of people who don't keep up with technology because they have careers in other fields.

Just switch to a PC?

Telling people to switch to Windows is a simple-minded answer. Being a Sys Admin, you of all people should know it's never that simple. Further, I think most people here consider Windows a distasteful alternative. Why else would they be *here*?

You've made it quite clear you believe yourself superior to the rest of us, a pretty huge leap considering you know nothing of the people around you. Your post was foolish and served no purpose other than to belittle others. Break the cycle of hate.

But hey, I'm glad a mac mini runs your little servers on your little network.

 

[drech]

Could you point me to where Apple is misleading folks on the innards of their systems?

Maybe you could point me to the text on the Apple Store web page where the claims of "latest and greatest" are?

The specifications of the systems are clearly displayed. If you don't like the price, go somewhere else. What's annoying as all get-out and why I'm (I can't speak for anyone else), prone to try to bash a little sense into some of these threads, is people claiming fraud, deceit, rip-off and so on.

If you feel the pricing isn't justified, go do something else, but for the love of Pete, stop whining about it. People will pay for what they perceive as value. Some people see value in Apple's offerings, others do not.

I didn't say Apple was misleading anyone. I guess it's more a case of caveat emptor, even if most Apple customers aren't going to have any idea how to compare what's in an Apple to what's in some clone PC.

So **** anyone that's not a geek, eh?

But you are correct. Perceived value is what rules the day.

 

[Dify]

A beginner photographer worries about his camera (and, in the 21st century, computer).

A good photographer worries about his lens.

A great photographer worries about the light.

I would have said that a great photographer worries about everything.


I have to say, I think that if you have a job in the art world like designer, photographer 3d artist ect...
You should know every thing there is to know about your computer/camera/software, because this is after all your tools, if you don´t master it, they will get in the way of your creativity. Also, some one said that artists don´t really care and that they just want to know what is gona work for them for the 3-4 years to comme, well maybe photographers, but a 3d artist, if he waits that long to change his computer, well that´s sad because he is slowing him self down.
the artists I know change computer each year...at least, and really is not hard to do.

 

[Law213]

I didn't say Apple was misleading anyone. I guess it's more a case of caveat emptor, even if most Apple customers aren't going to have any idea how to compare what's in an Apple to what's in some clone PC.

So **** anyone that's not a geek, eh?

But you are correct. Perceived value is what rules the day.

Caveat emptor! As a law student, I must say, well played.

 

[vant]

You've misunderstood my post. I'm not complaining about current hardware. In fact, I said it suits most users and that upgrades really only affect power users.

My complaint is about the pricing. Do you not agree that charging premium prices for the current Apple hardware is dubious at best? It takes advantage of people who don't keep up with technology because they have careers in other fields.

Just switch to a PC?

Telling people to switch to Windows is a simple-minded answer. Being a Sys Admin, you of all people should know it's never that simple. Further, I think most people here consider Windows a distasteful alternative. Why else would they be *here*?

You've made it quite clear you believe yourself superior to the rest of us, a pretty huge leap considering you know nothing of the people around you. Your post was foolish and served no purpose other than to belittle others. Break the cycle of hate.

But hey, I'm glad a mac mini runs your little servers on your little network.

KitchenAid Mixers haven't been changed for decades, yet they seem to be going up in price. Doesn't really matter because people still buy them in droves. People don't care that it has the same power as it did 10 years ago, they still buy it because it works (and arguably looks nice). The market dictates price, if you don't like it you can go live in North Korea.

If you guys forgot, premium companies maintain their premium image by charging a premium price.

It makes absolutely NO BUSINESS sense to charge less when you can still sell. The Nintendo Wii made it by maintaining the same price for two years, I'm sure the MBP can make it to a year (although I hope not).

 

[Gomff]

Because hardware is worth some percent of the total cost and software is worth some percent of the total cost. If one is diminished, the value of the whole drops.

By your logic, you could go buy a G4 for $2000 and install osx on it and be just as happy as buying the current macbook pro.

No. A G4 Cannot run the latest apps very well if at all, doesn't still have support, won't run snow Leopard and so on. Those are the deciding factors here....The most recent Macs still run all Apple's software perfectly well and hence are still "top of the line" relatively speaking.....In other words they are the fastest macs you can buy. Why should Apple discount them when they seem to be selling perfectly well? Doesn't that strike you as a strange business practice? What would the shareholders think?

However, you have touched on a good point.....Which explains why the resale value of Macs is much better than their PC counterparts....Precisely because older machines (not G4s but maybe G5s) are still capable machines for apps like Logic, Final Cut and Photoshop. Not quite as quick but they will do a job. For someone with financial constraints who wishes to work in the OS X environment they are an option.

Please at least try to understand my argument that a Mac's value lies in more than just it's hardware specifications alone. Obviously it's a factor but the emphasis is different to PCs.

 

[yargk]

Then guess what? Buy a Windows-based PC. That's not so hard is it. Or do you and everyone hear just love to bitch and complain. If you don't like the outdated hardware, why come here and complain? Do you think that you are going to change anyone's mind on this forum?

umm, is the general mindset on the forum that it's all good to charge ridiculous prices for incredibly outdated hardware? Also, I think you mean here, not hear.

 

[Gomff]

And as for artists not having time to keep knowledgable on current tech: you're again an idiot for generalizing. I am a 3D artist and have been for about 15 years and I keep up with tech. The other artists I work with are also very, very in-tune with tech. Photographers that I've been working with are also very up-to-date with computer tech as well as camera technology.

I too am a 3D artist and am quite up to date about technical specifications. Up until 3 and a half years ago, I worked in Windows and built a new machine pretty much every year to get the most horsepower I could. But the thing I got from that was that there's always something better round the corner or in the next price bracket, where do you stop? Do you spend fortunes on a Quadro?

If you're a 3D artist and have been for 15 years, you'll remember the days of making do with a 200 Mhz Pentium and a FireGL GPU. You'll remember the limitations you had to work with and the techniques you used to get a job done within those constraints. Wouldn't you agree that there are still constraints now, they're just different? The conclusion I came to was to stop worrying about having the fastest or greatest whatever and put your energy into doing the best with what you have to work with. The hardware race is a huge distraction to artists, and should never be used as an excuse for poor work.

Moving on....I can still work on my over 3 year old laptop quite well if I have to, using some of the tricks I learned from the old days when systems were much, much less powerful. Compared to those machines, my Macbook Pro is a powerhouse. As for my over 2 year old Mac Pro, Its the best machine I ever had. It's not the fastest machine out there but I don't care....I can leave it rendering for 48 hours and know it's not going to freeze up or overheat. Heck, I can have it rendering using all 8 cores, have music playing and engage in deep meaningful debates on these forums

 

[ae3265]

I didn't say Apple was misleading anyone. I guess it's more a case of caveat emptor, even if most Apple customers aren't going to have any idea how to compare what's in an Apple to what's in some clone PC.

So **** anyone that's not a geek, eh?

But you are correct. Perceived value is what rules the day.

For years, PC manufacturers have blithely posted all kinds of specs, often with inferior sub components to help them keep prices down. Hell just before X-mas I was still finding systems being sold as 4GB RAM, when the actual system only will use 3...new!

How about not including OS install DVD's to save money and requiring customers to burn their own, with little instruction on how to to do the same?

How about giving customers "Restore" media that wiped their systems, and instructing tech support lines to use that if a problem couldn't be resolved in < 8 minutes (I know, I was working those lines when that one came out).

How about charging customers up front for any tech support, covered or not, and then refunding only if, in their opinion, it was a warranty issue? (I was working the lines with that one also)

How about bloating the customer's OS with all kinds of software that often didn't work....find someone who knows about Media Pilot on Compaq.

Apple sells a system that is well integrated, and has reasonable, if not the latest, components that work well together.

Apple includes install Media with every piece of hardware.

Apple provides up front tech support options. And doesn't hassle you about paying for covered services.

Apple's software works, out of the box, and isn't bloated up with crapware.

I would submit that PC manufacturers have done more to **** non-geeks. And while I'm not a big fan of Windows and some of it's attendant issues and architecture, I'm not prone to bash Microsoft, for the most part, it's a decent product. I'll give Alienware credit for making a nice system and not bloating up the OS.

But, having supported PC's (on the side mostly...gotta love being the family computer guy), for years...and seeing what PC vendors are doing, Apple is a refreshing breath of fresh air to deal with.

 

[BrerBear]

Could you point me to where Apple is misleading folks on the innards of their systems?

Maybe you could point me to the text on the Apple Store web page where the claims of "latest and greatest" are?

I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's misleading, but when I browsed to
http://www.apple.com/mac/
and clicked the "Why you'll love a Mac" link
http://www.apple.com/getamac/whymac/
it claims "High performance. With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do — at an astonishing speed."

I didn't look around much, but every page I saw was chock full of references to performance. Heck, the MBP's tagline was "It's all about performance".

I'm sure Apple will put performance front and center like they always do when they finally get around to updating. Anyone care to make a friendly wager that they won't?

 

[drech]

@ae3265 - There's no way around your last post. All true. I really dig the macs I've had, other than the lemon 2006 MBP, but even in that case, it did limp along until just a few days ago. I dig them for exactly the reasons you state.

I'm just feeling bad for the people who don't know the difference between the procs, etc., who are trusting that Apple is selling them a machine that matches the price.

But that was my own arrogant thought. Perhaps those folks really don't care, are still willing to spend the money, and are just as happy with their machine.

 

[kickFlip]

The hardware race is a huge distraction to artists, and should never be used as an excuse for poor work.

The hardware race is a huge distraction to anyone, I agree. And, yeah, back in the day we were trying to squeeze every last big of performance from our gear with any trick we could figure out. But my comments were based on people looking to buy brand-new gear right now. Why not wait for the better stuff or, if they're not on the horizon, why not demand them from your favorite company?

 

[Aadhil]

A beginner photographer worries about his camera (and, in the 21st century, computer).

A good photographer worries about his lens.

A great photographer worries about the light.

Actually All photographers who know anything about photography worry about the light. Great photographers worry about tripods

 

[snberk103]

...

My complaint is about the pricing. Do you not agree that charging premium prices for the current Apple hardware is dubious at best? It takes advantage of people who don't keep up with technology because they have careers in other fields.

...

This is an often used line in this oft-repeated debate. And I have never understood why Apple should be held to a different standard.

The price for everything you buy is not dictated by cold logic. And by "you", I do mean you, Drech - as well as everyone else who makes this complaint about Apple pricing. The price is set by what the market will bear. Period. Some products make a company huge profits, and some products sell at a loss. Ever buy a soft drink at fast food place? Your $1.49 drink costs the restaurant all of 5 or 7 cents. Most of the menu is barely profitable - but serves to get you to buy that drink. That "Supersize" thing? You pay 25 cents to get 33% more of a product that costs them a penny more to provide.

Milk is often sold at a loss in grocery store. It's called a loss-leader. In fact, most of the products you find at the back of a store are not making the store any money. Their sole purpose is to get you to the back of the store, so that you walk by all the other products that you might need, and that are profitable. Every pick anything up while waiting in the check-out line? Did you then go to the store's Rumours site and complain about the pricing? Everything you can reach while waiting in that line is overpriced. That's why it's there. Its also why stores manage their check-out lines. Just long enough for you to pick something up, not long enough to get unhappy.

Apple charges what people.... many many many people will pay. These people, for the most part, find that the product does what they need it to do and has value. Apple owns well over half the over $1000 notebook market in N. America. When you can get a $500 or $600 notebook, why do so many buy Apple notebooks. Because it offers a complete package, with value, to them. As said over and over.... Apple does not sell a hardware package - they sell a "solution" package. You get "solutions" with you Mac.

If you don't need Apple's solutions, don't buy a Mac. Its that simple. If you don't need a loaf of bread, don't go down a bakery aisle. If you don't like paying $4.99 for a loaf of artisan bread from your local bakery, buy generic white bread. It is all just bread, right?

 

[zipa]

Great photographers worry about tripods

That, and where they will be able to find 8'x10' film in the coming years...

 

[Gomff]

But my comments were based on people looking to buy brand-new gear right now. Why not wait for the better stuff or, if they're not on the horizon, why not demand them from your favorite company?

Sure, I agree with waiting. If I was about to buy a new system I would wait as well....I waited 6 months for my 2008 Mac Pro so I know what it's like. But I'd rather wait and have a stable, well thought out system than some toaster that's going to be in and out of the repair workshop and can't be more than an hour away from a power source.

Some folks on here want Apple to schedule hardware releases according to their own buying habits and then throw hissy fits when it doesn't happen.

 

[Hls811]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's misleading, but when I browsed to
http://www.apple.com/mac/
and clicked the "Why you'll love a Mac" link
http://www.apple.com/getamac/whymac/
it claims "High performance. With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do — at an astonishing speed."

I didn't look around much, but every page I saw was chock full of references to performance. Heck, the MBP's tagline was "It's all about performance".

I'm sure Apple will put performance front and center like they always do when they finally get around to updating. Anyone care to make a friendly wager that they won't?

The current versions are still high performance computers. They all of a sudden didn't stop working when arrandale was released, it works on Leopard and Snow Leopard as well today as it did the day these devices were first released. I'd even go as far as to say it works on 99% of all software that was available the day they went to the current models as they do today. The performance is still exactly the same.

(the only questionable statement is "latest Intel processors", because they aren't, but they are still current..)

 

[jamesryanbell]

It's the same reason you want 600+ horsepower in a street car when 400hp is plenty for driving on the street. ONE-UPPING people and/or knowing you have the best/most/strongest/most powerful. You can't use it right then and there, but conceptually - if you had to do so - you could take them and you know it. Even if it's not competition, there's something to be said for knowing you have the best. The BEST hardware for the job....no matter what that is.

Same thing a lot of these guys in the thread are saying (essentially) about why Core2Duo isn't appealing anymore. The REAL reason is that they want the peace-of-mind (for techie people) that they have as good or better hardware than anything out there, the Apple name, AND are running OSX and Windows. They want it ALL. For people into cars, part of the fun is knowing you have something at the top of the game. Same thing in computers. Knowing that there's a Sony Vaio out there for less money with WAY better specs - REGARDLESS OF WHAT OS IT RUNS - just doesn't sit well with people shelling out big money for a laptop. They want it all. Huge hardware specs, top quality build, an exclusive OS (nevermind the 1% of people that run Hackintoshes), AND the Apple name. No excuses. They know they have something that's the best, any way you look at it. There's not caveat for people to say Macs don't have the latest video cards, etc. They want the specs to be pegged at the top....for their top dollar.

Call BS all you want, but in the back of people's heads - even if they don't admit it - that's what they want if they're going to drop $2000+ on a laptop (a higher spec'd 15" or 17").

 

[drech]

This is an often used line in this oft-repeated debate. And I have never understood why Apple should be held to a different standard.

You're right. It's unfair of me to try and hold Apple to a different standard when every other corporate entity does the same thing.

I suppose because I like Apple and their products, I want them to be a beacon of reason when most corps give priority to pieces of colored paper over people, but that's idealistic and not the reality of business in these times. Our zero-sum monetary system forces greed to stay in the black.

Apple does seem to care at least a little as evidenced by a couple of AppleCare posts around here. I think as far as companies go, Apple comes the closest. They are the most admired corp, after all

And as a previous poster to this thread said, Apple will most likely bring their product lines up to speed at some point, and the price of said systems will be justified.

 

[alent1234]

The current versions are still high performance computers. They all of a sudden didn't stop working when arrandale was released, it works on Leopard and Snow Leopard as well today as it did the day these devices were first released. I'd even go as far as to say it works on 99% of all software that was available the day they went to the current models as they do today. The performance is still exactly the same.

(the only questionable statement is "latest Intel processors", because they aren't, but they are still current..)

would you pay the same price for a 2009 model car when the 2010's are available? even if it has no miles?

same thing. C2D and all the electronics in a MBP are old technology and aren't worth the price Apple is asking. Core i5 is the new consumer grade CPU.

 

[jamesryanbell]

would you pay the same price for a 2009 model car when the 2010's are available? even if it has no miles?

same thing. C2D and all the electronics in a MBP are old technology and aren't worth the price Apple is asking. Core i5 is the new consumer grade CPU.

Exactly. My 2007 Lexus didn't stop working either, but I'm not going to pay full sticker to buy a 0 mile 2007 when 2010s are out.

 

[LastZion]

great article.
come on apple, surprise us, if this is why you are making us wait

 

[FnuGk]

apple must construct additional pylons!

 

[snberk103]

It's the same reason you want 600+ horsepower in a street car when 400hp is plenty for driving on the street....

Oh my, that got me laughing so hard.... Last year I sold a car that had 68 hp, and that was when it was new. It drove fine on the street. In fact it drove fine all the way from the west coast to Ontario and back again. Of course there was that day in Alberta, on the way back, when a stiff head-wind kicked up and I had the pedal floored to keep it at, oh 60 to 70 kph (~35 to 45 mph). On the highway.

And then there was that long long hill up from Trail to Rossland. Oh boy. I really wished I had a bit more power then. LIKE MAYBE 120 OR EVEN 140 hp!!! But, 400 hp??? Good Lord - who needs 400 hp for street driving. Contractor owned pick-ups, farm trucks, delivery vans - Ok... but for street driving?

Oh, I've got new car now, and it has... let me look it up.... 67 hp, again. sigh.

 

[Gomff]

It's the same reason you want 600+ horsepower in a street car when 400hp is plenty for driving on the street. ONE-UPPING people and/or knowing you have the best/most/strongest/most powerful.

This is the most ridiculous justification for all the complaining that's been happening. If this is the reason for feeling frustrated then seriously, seriously, please, just go and buy a PC and be happy with your blinged out, blue /red LED emblazoned monstrosity. Honestly, Apple machines aren't for you. I mean this sincerely.

would you pay the same price for a 2009 model car when the 2010's are available? even if it has no miles?

same thing. C2D and all the electronics in a MBP are old technology and aren't worth the price Apple is asking. Core i5 is the new consumer grade CPU.

It's not the same thing....At least read the last few pages of this thread.

And while we're on the car metaphor, where do people who buy vintage cars for huge sums of money fit in? Who and where are they in the computer marketplace?