Apple’s MacBook Pro: Rotting Core? What Apple Doesn't Want You To Realize.

[snberk103]

You're right. It's unfair of me to try and hold Apple to a different standard when every other corporate entity does the same thing.

No, I don't think it's unfair. However, Apple is a corporation and by law corporations must try to make a profit for their investors. And it is a law.

How corporations choose to conduct themselves within this structure is, however, up to them. Apple has decided that making customers happy, feel valued, and feel like Apple is a good corporate citizen is the way to make a good profit. So far, they have been proven right. And, when the top management is making their shareholders happy, then they can get away with doing some things that they feel is the "right thing to do" - because the top managers are still people too.

I suppose because I like Apple and their products, I want them to be a beacon of reason when most corps give priority to pieces of colored paper over people, but that's idealistic and not the reality of business in these times. Our zero-sum monetary system forces greed to stay in the black.

See above.... but we do have the power to change this, we just need to change the law through our elected officials.

Apple does seem to care at least a little as evidenced by a couple of AppleCare posts around here. I think as far as companies go, Apple comes the closest. They are the most admired corp, after all

Again, I think Apple has recognized that a customer who feels looked after, and that feels that Apple truly wants to make them happy is a profitable customer.

And as a previous poster to this thread said, Apple will most likely bring their product lines up to speed at some point, and the price of said systems will be justified.

A lot of the decision makers at Apple, I believe, are not bean-counters. I think they are people who truly want to make a good product and to make customers like their product. IMHO - - Apple has done things differently than other firms that also weren't bean-counter heavy in top management. Apple has not ignored their bean-counters. I think when the Apple bean-counters say doing something in a particular way is not sustainable, Apple spends a great deal of time figuring out how to do it in a profitable way. And still maintain the value.

Apple has hired some very good bean-counters, I think. Creative bean-counters who understand the Apple philosophy of adding value. Instead of trying to make a profit solely by cutting costs they have figured out how to make a profit by adding value. The bean-counters are required to make sure that the cost of adding value creates the most profit.

Just some idle rambles as I avoid work.

 

[alent1234]

This is the most ridiculous justification for all the complaining that's been happening. If this is the reason for feeling frustrated then seriously, seriously, please, just go and buy a PC and be happy with your blinged out, blue /red LED emblazoned monstrosity. Honestly, Apple machines aren't for you. I mean this sincerely.



It's not the same thing....At least read the last few pages of this thread.

And while we're on the car metaphor, where do people who buy vintage cars for huge sums of money fit in? Who and where are they in the computer marketplace?

yes it is

C2D and the nvidia hardware Apple is pushing now is old junk and the equivalent of a black friday wal mart door buster special. not a $2000 laptop that is supposed to have the latest technology.

Dell and HP have already transitioned their high end premium products to i Core CPU's and newer hardware

 

[linuxcooldude]

yes it is

C2D and the nvidia hardware Apple is pushing now is old junk and the equivalent of a black friday wal mart door buster special. not a $2000 laptop that is supposed to have the latest technology.

Dell and HP have already transitioned their high end premium products to i Core CPU's and newer hardware

When it first came out, core 2 duo was the latest thing, now it is junk...lol. Why was it not considered junk when it first came out? Thats because its not junk, its a quality product.

 

[dukebound85]

When it first came out, core 2 duo was the latest thing, now it is junk...lol. Why was it not considered junk when it first came out? Thats because its not junk, its a quality product.

so was the pentium ll

 

[Gomff]

yes it is

C2D and the nvidia hardware Apple is pushing now is old junk and the equivalent of a black friday wal mart door buster special. not a $2000 laptop that is supposed to have the latest technology.

Frankly, it's pointless to have a circular argument like this, and I'm not going to keep repeating my reasoning again and again.

Please, just buy a PC and make it a really tasteful one, with water-cooling, huge power draw, lots of LED's and don't forget to massively overclock the CPU. Then get yourself a 32 pack of Red Bull or some other high energy drink and have a 24 hour binge on Crysis to make it all worth while.

And don't forget a nice big box of tissues.

 

[vant]

Exactly. My 2007 Lexus didn't stop working either, but I'm not going to pay full sticker to buy a 0 mile 2007 when 2010s are out.

That would apply, if the new MBPs were already released and the old ones were still selling for full price.

 

[DoFoT9]

When it first came out, core 2 duo was the latest thing, now it is junk...lol. Why was it not considered junk when it first came out? Thats because its not junk, its a quality product.

you seriously think that? compare a few "real world" benchies of the C2Ds and their i3 counterparts. the differences arent that major - just the usual 20% increases for most things (granted there are some significant improvements for encoding) that you would expect from a die shrink and architecture change.

nice catch vant

 

[CP123]

You've misunderstood my post. I'm not complaining about current hardware. In fact, I said it suits most users and that upgrades really only affect power users.

You are complaining about the hardware. You don't believe that Apple should be charging as much for the current hardware.

My complaint is about the pricing. Do you not agree that charging premium prices for the current Apple hardware is dubious at best? It takes advantage of people who don't keep up with technology because they have careers in other fields.

Once again, if you don't like Apple's practices, why bitch about it? Just buy something else. It's people like you, who complain all day about something being not worth it, then turn around and buy it, then come here and complain about how you got ripped off, that makes everyone here sick. If you and everyone like you thinks its a ripoff, go somewhere else.

Just switch to a PC?

Yeah, why not. I wouldn't want you to be ripped off.

Telling people to switch to Windows is a simple-minded answer. Being a Sys Admin, you of all people should know it's never that simple. Further, I think most people here consider Windows a distasteful alternative. Why else would they be *here*?

You've made it quite clear you believe yourself superior to the rest of us, a pretty huge leap considering you know nothing of the people around you. Your post was foolish and served no purpose other than to belittle others. Break the cycle of hate.

But hey, I'm glad a mac mini runs your little servers on your little network.

Why are you here? That's a damn good question. Why don't you tell me? Are you here to save the rest of us from Apple and their bad corporate practices? Spare me the lecture. Most people who buy computers, know what they want, and what they are willing to pay.

And by the way genius, I'm not the Sys Admin person. That's another poster. So save the sarcastic answer.

 

[linuxcooldude]

you seriously think that? compare a few "real world" benchies of the C2Ds and their i3 counterparts. the differences arent that major - just the usual 20% increases for most things (granted there are some significant improvements for encoding) that you would expect from a die shrink and architecture change.

nice catch vant

For most uses not even 20% more like 10%. Then you also need to factor in power consumption and heat.

 

[CP123]

Caveat emptor! As a law student, I must say, well played.

Let me guess? You're a law student right?

 

[CP123]

umm, is the general mindset on the forum that it's all good to charge ridiculous prices for incredibly outdated hardware? Also, I think you mean here, not hear.

I think everyone would agree that Apple should lower the price of their computers, regardless of the specs. However, if its too expensive for you, then don't buy it. That makes sense. Hell, a Mercedes Benz is too expensive for me, but I'm not going to go to a Mercedes' forum and complain that they are ripping us off. I will just admire from far, and drive my current car.

Incredibly outdated? That's a little emotional, isn't it?

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

 

[MacintoshMan]

Allot of us would have been on a PC since October when the i7 were first into laptops but sadly the drivers for OS X to run on a i7 laptop are not there yet =[ The day that, that happens ill be purchasing a nice acer for half the price.

 

[ae3265]

I think everyone would agree that Apple should lower the price of their computers, regardless of the specs. However, if its too expensive for you, then don't buy it. That makes sense. Hell, a Mercedes Benz is too expensive for me, but I'm not going to go to a Mercedes' forum and complain that they are ripping us off. I will just admire from far, and drive my current car.

Incredibly outdated? That's a little emotional, isn't it?

Anyway, thanks for the correction.

I'm all for Apple continuing to business as they are. They're making money, and a great product and as long as they continue to make money, one would hope they'll continue to make a great product.

OTOH, I think it's rather spiffy that you can knock 13%-21% off various models at the refurb store and get exactly the same warranty and Applecare. You don't want to pay "full" price for a brand new product, go refurb. I've been perfectly happy with my refurb MBP and Apple didn't bat an eyelash at replacing the one part that's had an issue.

Also, I'm perfectly happy to wait for Apple to deal with whatever engineering issues are involved in upgrading the CPU, MB and video, which it looks like they're going to have to address all three major components. I'd much rather let the engineers put together a well-crafted product than slap something together.

And, yeah, sure, we'd all love prices to be lower, but Apple isn't ripping anyone off.

 

[HLdan]

umm, is the general mindset on the forum that it's all good to charge ridiculous prices for incredibly outdated hardware? Also, I think you mean here, not hear.

Like you meant, "meant", not "mean? "

 

[CP123]

I'm all for Apple continuing to business as they are. They're making money, and a great product and as long as they continue to make money, one would hope they'll continue to make a great product.

OTOH, I think it's rather spiffy that you can knock 13%-21% off various models at the refurb store and get exactly the same warranty and Applecare. You don't want to pay "full" price for a brand new product, go refurb. I've been perfectly happy with my refurb MBP and Apple didn't bat an eyelash at replacing the one part that's had an issue.

Also, I'm perfectly happy to wait for Apple to deal with whatever engineering issues are involved in upgrading the CPU, MB and video, which it looks like they're going to have to address all three major components. I'd much rather let the engineers put together a well-crafted product than slap something together.

And, yeah, sure, we'd all love prices to be lower, but Apple isn't ripping anyone off.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[ae3265]

I don't know if I would go so far as to say it's misleading, but when I browsed to
http://www.apple.com/mac/
and clicked the "Why you'll love a Mac" link
http://www.apple.com/getamac/whymac/
it claims "High performance. With the latest Intel processors and other engineering leaps, a new Mac does all the things that only a Mac can do — at an astonishing speed."

I didn't look around much, but every page I saw was chock full of references to performance. Heck, the MBP's tagline was "It's all about performance".

I'm sure Apple will put performance front and center like they always do when they finally get around to updating. Anyone care to make a friendly wager that they won't?

I'll have to concede your point there. OTOH, I'll also point out that other features of the MBP series are also given lots of attention, the keyboard, the "green"-ness, etc. It's marketing and it hasn't changed much that I can see from the first time I looked at it. They certainly also use the words, "fast" and "advanced" quite a bit. Both of which seem okay. The MBP's are decently fast machines, and strictly speaking the components are "advanced". They are not the "fastest" nor "most advanced" nor advertised as such.

I certainly would not rank their marketing with, say, vitamin pills or colonics.

My dad was telling me as he's back in college that he's really gotten a kick out of seeing several people having various issues with their less expensive computer products. And in comparison his Mac experience has been very good. And other Mac users he's run into have expressed good experiences also.

Just to be fair, I do have to admit that I'm reasonably impressed with the Alienware rig the developer across from me just dropped $2k on. It's a nice machine, and nicely set up. Even if his battery is only good for 2 hours, while mine runs most of the day. ;-p

And I'll also submit that the last time I looked at the Viao's they seemed like a reasonably good product.

But, gee, the price for good products is right there about with Apple's. I will concede that Sony and Alienware probably both have more recently updated components and from a strictly hardware only perspective are probably a better value. OTOH, the usefulness of OS X and the software I run on it tips the scales back to Apple on the value side for me.

Oh, and even though I'm a Unix guy, I really can't stand Linux as a desktop OS these days. They've made great strides and all, and I have a high respect for that, but something about that makes teeth itch. I'd be just as happy to slap the OS X interface and ease of use on top of Solaris. So tech does not = Linux/BSD. We all have our little OS religions. Hell, some people even prefer AIX...ugh!

 

[JS82189]

Well this is really crappy news, so what we are seeing is refusing to lower their price point as they technology they package drops in price... I love OS X so I will probably just wait for the next laptop update since my last one died from user stupidity (alcohol wipe+dirty keyboard= melting screen)...

although I feel like this has been obvious for awhile... they don't lower prices, only upgrade equipment.. so it really is up to us to demand the ~20% price cuts.. I just dont see apple doing this because they have a streamlined pricing point, next people will complain that they price cuts are spaced out too far or too soon, and everyone will have a price cut timeline and have to cross reference the industry ... good luck with that

 

[Hls811]

would you pay the same price for a 2009 model car when the 2010's are available? even if it has no miles?

same thing. C2D and all the electronics in a MBP are old technology and aren't worth the price Apple is asking. Core i5 is the new consumer grade CPU.

Like someone else said.. in your comparison the 2010 model cars aren't out yet. Apple isn't selling C2D computers AND i5/7 Macs next to each other for the same price.

These car analogies are insane. Buying a $20,000+ car is not like buying a $2,000 computer. Would you buy a bagel at your local deli at 9AM knowing that at 5PM it'll be half price?? C'mon.. Stop making comparisons to completely irrelevant things.

Half the arguments on here are that you're paying full retail for "outdated" equipment.. Well, no one is requiring you to pay full retail! You don't HAVE to buy direct from Apple. I'm writing this on my BRAND NEW, just delivered today and take out of the sealed box 15" MBP (2.8/500/4GB) - final cost after shipping taxes, etc: $1756.19.

Had I bought the same exact unit directly from Apple: $2,459.93.
(to be fair, I am eligible for the EPP and/or EDU pricing so I would have paid approx $200 less than that anyway.)

I have what I feel is very solid technology which will last me for years to come - most likely as long as the i5 processor would, which is most likely the most I'd have gotten for the same money when Apple releases an update. And I saved $703.74 in the process (roughly 30%).

The best part? I'm also no longer waiting for Arrandale every Tuesday. I have a brand new laptop fully capable of handling anything I need to do on it right now. If the next generation comes out and blows my mind, I'm in a great position to sell what I have and upgrade (if its cost effective) or I'm more than willing to wait for whatever generation comes next or even after that. Although, the way some of the people on here talk about Arrandale its going to be the best CPU ever, so there'll never be anything to top that...

 

[drech]

You are complaining about the hardware. You don't believe that Apple should be charging as much for the current hardware.

Didn't I already concede your point a few posts back? But I understand your need to save face. Go ahead and stomp your feet and huff around some more.

And yes, I will be buying a new mac the instant a refresh drops. Never said I didn't like them. I just thought the price was a little much for the current tech inside.

And yes, as I said in a previous post, I do feel bad for the people that spend the cash to get dated tech. I also conceded that point, saying if those customers are happy with their purchase, more power to them.

If you still want to nerd rage on me, by all means, have a good time. I'm happy to help

 

[CP123]

Didn't I already concede your point a few posts back? But I understand your need to save face. Go ahead and stomp your feet and huff around some more.

And yes, I will be buying a new mac the instant a refresh drops. Never said I didn't like them. I just thought the price was a little much for the current tech inside.

And yes, as I said in a previous post, I do feel bad for the people that spend the cash to get dated tech. I also conceded that point, saying if those customers are happy with their purchase, more power to them.

If you still want to nerd rage on me, by all means, have a good time. I'm happy to help

I need to save face? How arrogant of you. You're new to this forum, and post that ridiculous post about how I think I'm superior because I'm an Sys Admin (you got the wrong person). Just because I disagreed with you and told you to buy a PC if you feel Apple is charging to much. Dude, I think you need to check yourself. If you don't want to be disagreed with, then don't post on these forums.

 

[drech]

I need to save face? How arrogant of you. You're new to this forum, and post that ridiculous post about how I think I'm superior because I'm an Sys Admin (you got the wrong person). Just because I disagreed with you and told you to buy a PC if you feel Apple is charging to much. Dude, I think you need to check yourself. If you don't want to be disagreed with, then don't post on these forums.

But, in the end, I agreed with you (and ae* at the same time).

So...what?

Just don't smack your wife and kids around because of this. It's just a forum and, as you said, I'm new here and that means...well, nothing really...

But dude, seriously, outside of this sparring, have a good night

 

[CP123]

But, in the end, I agreed with you (and ae* at the same time).

So...what?

Just don't smack your wife and kids around because of this. It's just a forum and, as you said, I'm new here and that means...well, nothing really...

But dude, seriously, outside of this sparring, have a good night

That's cool. Just save the extra comments that aren't needed. You have a good night as well.

 

[Azmordean]

Computers aren't about performance anymore. They are 'good enough'. It's a dying thing. The fastest core whatever doesn't mean squat to the average computer user.

Apple realizes this, so they are moving into new and different ways to interact with computers, like the iPhone and iPad.

Cars are about getting from point A to point B these days. I don't need the speed of a Corvette, but that doesn't mean I'll be willing to pay Corvette prices for a Toyota Corolla.

And that is precisely what Apple is offering. They used to offer premium product at premium price. Now it's a mediocre product at a premium price. Even if most people don't need "Core Whatevers" they still understand value for money.

If you NEED the speed, Apple doesn't deliver, so you get a high end Windows laptop instead.

If you DON'T need the speed, you can get a Windows computer with the same specs as the current Apple lineup for half the price.

In either situation, you aren't buying an Apple.

The sole reason I see for anyone to stick with Apple is if their work/software is OS X dependent.

 

[fpnc]

Allot of us would have been on a PC since October when the i7 were first into laptops but sadly the drivers for OS X to run on a i7 laptop are not there yet =[ The day that, that happens ill be purchasing a nice acer for half the price.

Okay, everyone please stop with these suggestions that Apple should have already shipped MacBooks with the Core i7/i5 as evidenced by the "fact" that PC laptops with such processors have been shipping since last year.

The only MOBILE Core i7 that shipped last year was from the Clarksfield processor family (quad-core i7-720QM, i7-820QM, and i7-920XM) and those are in large, heavy, desktop-replacement units that have a battery life between two to three hours (at best). Furthermore, until Intel announced the new Core i7/i5/i3 Arrandale family just two months ago there were no Core i5/i3 processors that were in the mobile category (only desktop i5/i3s were available last year). So, any Core i3/i5 laptops that shipped last year were using desktop parts and the only MOBILE Core i7 that shipped last year had a battery life that would have been typical for a laptop computer from the last century (that's poor) and nothing like the 5 to 7 hours that is possible on the current generation MacBook Pros.

The Arrandale processors are the first mainstream Core i7/i5/i3 mobile CPUs from Intel and they are just now beginning to ship in quantity from the major manufacturers (witness that Dell shows a "Preliminary Ship Date: 3/16/2010" for their "NEW 2010" Core i3/i5 Dell Studio laptops).

Arrandale is the Core i3/i5/i7 processor family that will be needed for the MacBooks and these chips haven't been available until just recently (if at all).

If you don't want to believe me then take a look at the following quote from AnandTech in their Jan. 2010 preview of the Arrandale processor family:

From the balanced notebook perspective, Arrandale is awesome. Battery life doesn't improve (...from Core 2 Duo...), but performance goes up tremendously. The end result is better performance for hopefully the same power consumption. If you're stuck with an aging laptop it's worth the wait. If you can wait even longer we expect to see a second rev of Arrandale silicon towards the middle of the year with better power characteristics. Let's look at some other mobile markets, though.

If what you're after is raw, unadulterated performance, there are still faster options. We compared Arrandale with a Core 2 Duo P8700, and performance went up. If you already have something with a Core i7-720QM (or other i7 part) or a Core 2 Quad, the performance figures aren't nearly so rosy. The catch is that battery life on quad-core CPUs, frankly, stinks. Most of the time, you're lucky to get over 90 minutes of battery life in light loads. For those looking at mobile performance, Clarksfield is still the winner (or grab a desktop Core i7 notebook).

The full preview is here: http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3705&p=1

 

[CP123]

If you NEED the speed, Apple doesn't deliver, so you get a high end Windows laptop instead.

If you DON'T need the speed, you can get a Windows computer with the same specs as the current Apple lineup for half the price.

In either situation, you aren't buying an Apple.

The sole reason I see for anyone to stick with Apple is if their work/software is OS X dependent.

So I guess you bought, or you're going to buy a Windows based PC right?

And I don't know anybody who buys a Mac because their work/software is OS X dependent. That's not the only reason to buy a Mac.