Apple Says Face ID Didn't Fail Onstage During iPhone X Keynote

[AsherN]

And because FaceID works at numerous angles according to Apple,

But it doesn't. They even made a point to show that when he presented a profile to the phone. From the demo, it seems pretty clear that you have to look at it dead on. Don't you think that if it worked at extreme angles, they would not have showed that? When Android face recognition requires looking straight at the phone?
[doublepost=1505422568][/doublepost]

I thought the unlock happens before you swipe

It does. One more step to get to the home screen

 

[teamgibbs]

Oh ok

First impressions sometimes can be the last tho?

Yup, and the media is not above rushing to conclusions and having fun with it at Apple's expense.

 

[ani4ani]

But it doesn't. They even made a point to show that when he presented a profile to the phone. From the demo, it seems pretty clear that you have to look at it dead on. Don't you think that if it worked at extreme angles, they would not have showed that? When Android face recognition requires looking straight at the phone?
[doublepost=1505422568][/doublepost]
It does. One more step to get to the home screen

So the whole rotating of your face during setup is for what reason if not to capture your face information at multiple angles?

 

[thadoggfather]

Yup, and the media is not above rushing to conclusions and having fun with it at Apple's expense.

Poor mums and pops apple. How will they ever survive and thrive as a company?

Fwiw I haven't been following what the medias been saying about iPhones period. I formulate my own opinion. I don't seek tech advice from the Wolf blizters and shephard smiths of the world

 

[carpleror]

Wow, as much as I hate the term sheep being applied to apple users (since I am one) - that seems to be the very definition of it.

Hahaha didn't mean for it to sound like that, but it does! Just meant that there are so many people who want this phone and supply will be limited. If you're going to complain about it, than let someone who really wants it have it.

 

[philoscoffee]

What really happened:

 

[AsherN]

So the whole rotating of your face during setup is for what reason if not to capture your face information at multiple angles?

To capture multiple depth data points. It may not have to be dead on, but we know that profile does not work.

 

[s1m]

Okay, so if I leave my phone somewhere and I get a text, and two friends see my phone got some notification, looks at the screen and tells me "hey! I think you got a text!" then I have to passcode unlock. This would not be a problem with Touch ID.

How often do two of your friends look at your phone before you when you get a text?

 

[Jussayin]

Bust that! I'll wait til the iron out all the kinks and bring back Touch ID!

 

[thirteen1031]

That **** failed. I don't care how their marketing team tries to spin it. The proof is right there on video. It failed. Reply all you want but I couldn't care less. #suspect

They're not "spinning" it, they're telling you, factually, what happened. If I say "there was an eclipse of the sun..." you wouldn't say, "Spin it all you like! The sun failed us!" (or maybe you would... #tinfoilhat).
[doublepost=1505431737][/doublepost]

People might look at my phone all the time I don’t want it to default to passcode after two people! That’s way too few and surely you could give almost unlimited attempts and keep the phone locked because the face recognition system is supposed to be SO ACCURATE RIGHT.

This calls the whole system into doubt more than it straight up failing.

Let's find out if it (1) Stays at 2 attempts and (2) if that's a given rather than something you can change, shall we? And I don't know about you, but most of the time, no one touches my phone, picks up my phone, or looks at my phone but me. When your phone is out on the table, do people pick it up randomly? REMEMBER face recognition requires that the person look at the phone, not just walk by it.

In this circumstance, with people setting the phones up, they probably *were* looking at it. So it tried to recognize them. But that's not usual in the day to day world where people ignore other people's locked phones lying next to them. And if the phone is unlocked, then anyone who wants to can look at it. It won't shut down and lock just because you're not looking at it. It simply won't "unlock" if someone else, like a child or your significant other or you mother picks it up.

I'm guessing that in the day-to-day world, the iPhone X's "passcode required" after two attempts will probably happen far less than the "passcode required" I now get when my 6s can't read my fingerprint.

 

[tjleonard]

I mean honestly out of any of
The top dogs at Apple, Craig is still my favorite.

I'm just giving him flack bc ho ho ho is an easy thing to make jokes about. It didn't at all offend me haha

And I can't say I would necessarily react any better. But still.
So much for the wow factor of this new feature

Yeah he did have some trouble recovering for a second.

It’ll be great.

 

[thirteen1031]

I do this with my wife's phone ALL THE TIME. She's blind as a bat. It's just easy for me to look at it quickly for her...

Fair enough. But I find it strange that people are acting as if Apple is forcing them to use facial recognition. There's still plenty of iPhones with touch id. All this means is you don't get the iPhone X *this* year. Maybe next year, the facial recognition will allow up to five faces recognized, and THEN people who have family members opening their phones for them will get the iPhone X1 or iPhone X2.

Right now, it's only one face per phone. But it's unlikely to stay that way. So, for now, you stick with touch-id. Disappointing, perhaps, but by X1 or X2 the price will likely go down as well. So...win-win.

 

[zeesix]

I still find it hard to believe that Apple didn't think about unintentionally scanning faces of people handling the phone. It makes no sense that a random person would set up these demos. Of course it's impossible to disprove without seeing the actual logs, and even then, logs can be manipulated.

Either way, it's a concern with FaceID. Even if FaceID works flawlessly, it could unintentionally scan people that are around you and quickly lock the phone, thereby having to resort to the pin code.

 

[rtrutter]

I do not believe a thing Apple says about the iPhone. They are very good at making excuses for the shortcomings of their products. Apple is not forcing people to use facial recognition currently but it will soon take over as the primary function of security on the iPhone, for example, Apple got rid of the headphone jack in favor of a lightning port version of headphones. No real reason to do it. They claim it was for more room but that is not true. The lightning port electronics was about twice as big as the headphone jack. Why didn't they just go to USB-C instead of lightning? It was for money, money, money. If you buy an iPhone you have to buy Apple's accessories because of the lightning port. Instead of standardize everything, you as the consumer are forced to buying Apple accessories. Now once the iPhone X has allowed Apple to push the price of these devices into the $999 range and above, do not be surprised if the next version of the iPhone will start at $1,200 or higher. Apple is just greedy and are great at marketing their inferior products because all the technology used in these products have been in the marketplace for some time now. Apple does not do anything new. The innovator, Steve Jobs, is no longer with us and Tim is no innovator just a snake oil salesman. I am disappointed with Apple.

 

[ErikGrim]

1. Someone sent you a funny text/pic and you want to quickly show it to your nearby friends from the lock screen?

• The issue here is that IF you look at your phone first, your device is now unlocked. So, if you choose to pass your device around, anyone can just flick up to get into your device.
• If it doesn't see your face first, then by the time you get your device back, you will have to enter a PIN because it will fail to read everyone's faced
  
  For those of you NOT single, then any time your spouse takes a look at notifications on the lock screen then by the time you get your device back, you will have to enter your PIN.

These are such common scenarios. Shame on Apple for not considering this which normal people do in the real world every day!

 

[s1m]

I still find it hard to believe that Apple didn't think about unintentionally scanning faces of people handling the phone. It makes no sense that a random person would set up these demos. Of course it's impossible to disprove without seeing the actual logs, and even then, logs can be manipulated.

Either way, it's a concern with FaceID. Even if FaceID works flawlessly, it could unintentionally scan people that are around you and quickly lock the phone, thereby having to resort to the pin code.

Only one face can be recorded in FaceID. It doesn't matter if it was a known person or a random setting up the phones the only face that wont lock the screen was Craig's.
[doublepost=1505443225][/doublepost]

I do not believe a thing Apple says about the iPhone. They are very good at making excuses for the shortcomings of their products. Apple is not forcing people to use facial recognition currently but it will soon take over as the primary function of security on the iPhone, for example, Apple got rid of the headphone jack in favor of a lightning port version of headphones. No real reason to do it. They claim it was for more room but that is not true. The lightning port electronics was about twice as big as the headphone jack. Why didn't they just go to USB-C instead of lightning? It was for money, money, money. If you buy an iPhone you have to buy Apple's accessories because of the lightning port. Instead of standardize everything, you as the consumer are forced to buying Apple accessories. Now once the iPhone X has allowed Apple to push the price of these devices into the $999 range and above, do not be surprised if the next version of the iPhone will start at $1,200 or higher. Apple is just greedy and are great at marketing their inferior products because all the technology used in these products have been in the marketplace for some time now. Apple does not do anything new. The innovator, Steve Jobs, is no longer with us and Tim is no innovator just a snake oil salesman. I am disappointed with Apple.

Wow what a streaming pile of drivel.

1 - You don't believe anything that Apple says about the iPhone. Can you provide some specific examples of where Apple have lied about the iPhone.

2 - Headphone jack removal - you state that the lightning port takes up more space than the headphone jack. That is true but surely the lightning port tales up less space than the lightning port AND the headphone jack. I haven't compared the size of lightning port to the USB C port and couldn't find anything easily referenceable online.

3 - Having to buy Apple accessories. My headphones aren't Apple or even MFi certified. My charging Hub isn't Apple. Apple advertised non-Apple charging mats at he keynote. There are plenty of Lightning enabled headphones.

4 - Apple doesn't do anything new. This is partly right. Apple takes what is in the market, makes it work and packages it together. Can you point out another phone that has FaceID (to a similar standard as Apples - i.e. not the Surface Pro which is not a phone and not the easy to fool Samsung), OLED, Dual rear cameras with optical image stabilisation equivalent, edge to edge screen and runs a secure operating system?

 

[DeepIn2U]

And because FaceID works at numerous angles according to Apple, you don't even have to pass around. With it lying flat on a table locked, with a group of friends having a coffee I bet the phone is unintentionally trying to validate faces....each time the owner legitimately wants to use FaceID he will have enter his pin....really convenient?

The irony of this whole setup is, despite the supposedly massive uptick in security with FaceID, the system defaults back to probably the weakest security in smartphones, the 4 digit PIN after only two authentication attempts. Always makes me wonder the logic of this approach even with TouchID, as soon as you can't defeat the top security, it gives you another chance at the weakest?

I think I'll wait for version 2.

 

[zeesix]

Only one face can be recorded in FaceID. It doesn't matter if it was a known person or a random setting up the phones the only face that wont lock the screen was Craig's.
[doublepost=1505443225][/doublepost]

My point is that they are meticulous with these demos. Read the stories about the first iphone presentation and how it was a patched together prototype. There is no way they didn't think of this.

It's really obvious that faceID wasn't working right. The keynote is on the website in HD. The lock code only came up after it didn't authenticate craig and he pressed the power button on/off. It's possible it scanned him a couple times when he picked up the phone originally but wasn't looking at it. If that's the case, that's also an issue.

 

[steveOooo]

My face would be red too if I just suffered a hardware glitch on my flagship product in front of an audience of millions.

Ultimately we'll know exactly how well it works, since the phone will shortly be sold in shops. It's not like Apple can possibly gain from a conspiracy to fake faceID.

Yeah guess it would look redder but I meant the makeup under his eyes / over cheek - before - skin colour, after - more reddish

At first I thought he was doing a natural reaction touching his face like a 'please someone kill me now' but actually does look like he's wiping what I assume is makeup hiding his reddish cheeks.

I guess u may have problems if u are a makeup addict or a clown

 

[Tech198]

I bet Craig would be been this color : red. As in I bet my face would have been red.

Makes sense, everyone probably wanted to test it out. Accidents do happen... That'll teach you to introduce something secure..

 

[Bacillus]

Only one face can be recorded in FaceID. It doesn't matter if it was a known person or a random setting up the phones the only face that wont lock the screen was Craig's.
[doublepost=1505443225][/doublepost]

Wow what a streaming pile of drivel.

1 - You don't believe anything that Apple says about the iPhone. Can you provide some specific examples of where Apple have lied about the iPhone.
Pixel density 445ppi as Phil indicated is not the best available - it's outsmarted by Samsung (over 512ppi)

2 - Headphone jack removal - you state that the lightning port takes up more space than the headphone jack. That is true but surely the lightning port tales up less space than the lightning port AND the headphone jack. I haven't compared the size of lightning port to the USB C port and couldn't find anything easily referenceable online.
The space went into the crazy big taptic engine that grew by 150% over its 6/6S sibling for no reason. So net effect: just lost functionality

3 - Having to buy Apple accessories. My headphones aren't Apple or even MFi certified. My charging Hub isn't Apple. Apple advertised non-Apple charging mats at he keynote. There are plenty of Lightning enabled headphones.
They seem to become slightly more open, but 75% of the dongles available support so-called "superior" Apple-only standards (that over time become replaced by ISO-standards, so net effect: disfunctional investment)

4 - Apple doesn't do anything new. This is partly right. Apple takes what is in the market, makes it work and packages it together. Can you point out another phone that has FaceID (to a similar standard as Apples - i.e. not the Surface Pro which is not a phone and not the easy to fool Samsung), OLED, Dual rear cameras with optical image stabilisation equivalent, edge to edge screen and runs a secure operating system?
Apple has lamented phone design for 6 years and is now overdoing its overdue bezel eradication with all sorts of problems. FaceID is sophisticated but used for a problem that didn't exist, introducing issues by itself.
Inductive charging, OLED and camera design are (delayed) supplements for their own "superior" superior technology that turned out not to be superior at all.
OLED still has burn-in effects so the "maturity of the technology" is just pure opportunistic nonsense.
Failed screen development strategy made them overdependent on the competition.

Don't believe anything that the salesguy tells you - especially when he's dressed in khaki shirts and jeans

 

[Jimrod]

Hahaha didn't mean for it to sound like that, but it does! Just meant that there are so many people who want this phone and supply will be limited. If you're going to complain about it, than let someone who really wants it have it.

I agree, it's a lot of money to put on something you have reservations about! The 8 seems a fairly safe bet and early adoption always has issues so leave it for those who are most keen!

 

[Bacillus]

Hmm. Well it could be that you're just not explaining yourself very well.

Are you, for example, forming an opinion of what someone's cultural interests might be, based on their education?

Surely it is simply incorrect to say:

"Carpool Caraoke is for the slightly less educated masses"

I would posit that Carpool Karaoke is actually for anyone who finds it entertaining regardless of how educated they happen to be.

And Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner's rendition of Wrecking Ball was hilariously entertaining. In my uneducated opinion.

You may be puzzled why Apple chose their Carpool stuff over Mozart's Zauberfløte - and I am happy to be unable to explain that to you.

 

[johngordon]

You may be puzzled why Apple chose their Carpool stuff over Mozart's Zauberfløte - and I am happy to be unable to explain that to you.

I am not puzzled by anything, other than why it is that someone who clearly considers themselves to be well educated, seems to be struggling with a pretty simple concept.

Your view appears to be that well educated people prefer supposedly highbrow culture like classical music, and lesser educated masses prefer populist culture. But as some sort of assumption, that view is utter nonsense.

For example, we are very possibly equally well educated, yet we appear to be interested in different things.

I also have no idea why you seem to assume that liking popular culture and liking higher brow culture are somehow mutually exclusive. They clearly are not.

 

[curtvaughan]

Agree. It takes some mental effort to realize all the business and wealth created by Apple comes from former customers

Yes, as a "former" Apple customer and current one to some degree, I agree. That was my point in mentioning that my "eureka" moment was in being told not to buy an iPhone 7 if the lack of a phone jack was so bothersome - so, as I decided with the MacBook Pro a year and a half ago, I didn't buy one, updated my 6+ to a 6S+ (last model with a phone jack), and bought an LG V20 to use with my nice wired headphones. In any case, Apple lost me as a phone/laptop customer (still plan to get a new iMac and iPad in the next year or so). I didn't mean to "disrespect" anyone by suggesting that, if they don't like the new iPhones for heart felt reasons, just don't buy one - get another phone. Perhaps Apple won't care, at least for now, as they seem to have enough business without some of their former, at one time "loyal", customers. When Apple dropped the phone jack it was a calculated move suggesting that a thinner aesthetic would have a greater appeal than the practical retention of the 3.5mm sound jack. In my case, it did not work. If the 8/8+ models had sound jacks I'd be ordering one right now, as they are just attractive enough at less than $1000. The X, at least for me, is just too expensive for what it offers, so I won't buy one. If it had a phone jack I'd at least be borderline. Apologies if that offends people.