Apple Says Notch is a 'Smart Way' to Give Users More Space for Content on New MacBook Pros

[Martyimac]

To a degree, yes, but I still have multiple Apple devices, especially iPads, and Intel Mac's. I can't see myself not buying new iPads, well at least as long as they don't have a notch.

I already have, I've never been a one OS, one type of hardware, guy. I use Windows at work almost exclusively and my fastest, best equipped, home machine is a Windows machine. That doesn't mean I haven't spent a lot of money on Apple products and don't have the right to complain.

The wife has a windows machine so I have to stay somewhat up to date on it.
I had to use Windows when I was working. The latest iteration has issues, as usual. There was a windows widget that showed up after the latest update. After 2 days it quit updating. So I deleted it intending to re-enable it in the hope it would work again. After 2 plus hours of google searching, I am unable to find a way to re-enable that simple widget. So now it's a strange looking black and white icon on the start menu just taking up space and no way to remove that.
Each OS has it's issues. Personally I find that, more and more, Windows is much more of a pain in the A than MacOS.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

What no one seems to be realising here is that this is a laptop for 'Professionals' and pro Software have a LOT of menu bar items that almost always overlap existing menu bar shortcuts (reference Architecture software), Cinema 4D will survive this because they run their menu items below the menu bar, guess every other pro software will have to do this now, thanks for this innovation Apple! Also, professionals NEED several menu bar apps to speed up work, this was already made worse my Big sur increasing the space between menu bar app shortcuts. IMHO A bunch of pro wannabes are designing apple pro machines since the trash can. All this power is useless if I'm constantly reminded that I'm using a computer instead of focusing on my creation.

I'm a power user, but I'd hardly consider myself a "professional" when it comes to the apps that I use - mostly I live in a xcode or web browsers, but I have a 15" Macbook Pro and 1/2 of my menubar is icons. Looking at MS Edge, I don't think I could run Edge without either some menu items or menubar icons disappearing because of the notch.

I'm curious how Apple or the community is going to end up working around the notch - and make no mistake, it's a work around for poor hardware design - and what changes, if any, Apple is going to make.

There's some interesting psychology around buying expensive things that you don't like. Given that the notch is disliked, but you spent thousands on it, most people will attempt to rationalize the notch, as the alternative is to admit that they purchased something that they don't like. And that's how you end up with sheep. It's really slick marketing from Apple. I hope they stop it.

 

[masteroflondon]

The truth is that the notch is an abomination. Here's how we know: when the leak came out a couple days before the announcement it was 100% mocked and ridiculed. Not a single person in the leak thread here or on reddit said "gee what a good idea" or "wow that's a really good and interesting design." Not one. It was panned. 100%. And not only because the design was bad, but because the design was so bad that the sentiment was that there was no way in hell Apple would release such a thing. People actually thought it was a joke. This idea was judged as 100% poor when it was a rumor. To say otherwise is revisionist history.

Now, did Apple sorta kinda make (very tart) lemonade out of lemons to address an engineering challenge? Maybe ish? But the idea that "we'll get used to it" and "it won't ruin the MBP" isn't the point when judging whether or not the design is "good." It's just not. And if you think it's good design then please show me in the leak thread where you said so.

I think probably people who don't mind a thing don't get worked up to post about a thing that may or may not be happening. Other people scream about it when it might happen and carry on when it does happen. Seems to me people who hate it say things like 'the truth is', 'end of story' and 'period', where people who don't mind say things like 'I don't mind it' and 'in my view'. Haters seem to have facts at their fingertips where likers have only opinions, they hold them more softly and feel less need to ram them down others throats as absolute truths.

Apple will be defending the notch. Apple will be making the notch smaller in the future.

And both things are entirely reasonable. I think it's a great compromise right now, but when technology makes it unnecessary of course they will abandon it. I'm sure Apple thought the built in optical drives were really good at the time, but you don't see them in many Macs now.

 

[bobcomer]

Im wondering if the notch is here to stay for a while if they are introducing this design to new products in 2021? I was thinking the notch was nearing the end of its lifecycle in Apple products based on iPhone implementation....

I would have said yes before, it's on its way out, but now that they put it in the MBP, I'm not so sure anymore. There's just no way I'd buy one, even though I really want that MiniLED screen and M1 Pro processor in a machine and was prepared to buy one until I saw it.

 

[kagharaht]

I'm not digging it, but what choice do I have? Go to windows and hardware? Not ready to start from scratch since Im locked in heavy to the eco system. Besides even though I don't like it, its not a deal breaker. Its a cosmetic thing. Nothing is perfect.

 

[npmacuser5]

You mean like the touch bar, the butterfly keyboard, the design with only two ports and so on??

Not an apples to apples comparison. The notch increases productivity by adding features. The thin design decreased productivity by removing features. Design over function.

 

[jlc1978]

I'm curious how Apple or the community is going to end up working around the notch

Go full screen and activate menu bar = problem solved. You essentially have the same setup as on earlier MBPs.

- and make no mistake, it's a work around for poor hardware design - and what changes, if any, Apple is going to make.

I would say adding in screen space while still allowing the device to be used as before is not poor design.

There's some interesting psychology around buying expensive things that you don't like. Given that the notch is disliked, but you spent thousands on it, most people will attempt to rationalize the notch, as the alternative is to admit that they purchased something that they don't like. And that's how you end up with sheep. It's really slick marketing from Apple. I hope they stop it.

Another interesting psychology question is "Why do people assume their opinion is correct and have to denigrate those who have a differing opinion?" I would seem to me they are so insecure that they must rationalize why others are inferior.

It's also interesting how some assume a handful of posters on a fan site is representative of the broader customer or user base and so their opinions are shared by them..

 

[Black Magic]

I would have said yes before, it's on its way out, but now that they put it in the MBP, I'm not so sure anymore. There's just no way I'd buy one, even though I really want that MiniLED screen and M1 Pro processor in a machine and was prepared to buy one until I saw it.

I wouldn't let the notch hold me back. it's a cosmetic item and for me the MacBook is all about functionality and performance.

 

[hybrid_x]

What do you want to bet that they designed the notch to accommodate Face ID hardware, but supply chain constraints meant that wouldn’t be possible so they dropped in a regular camera?

I’m expecting a 2022 update with Face ID.

 

[bobcomer]

I wouldn't let the notch hold me back. it's a cosmetic item and for me the MacBook is all about functionality and performance.

It really, really, bothers me. It's hard to use something that is annoying you as much as fingernails on chalkboard. It had got to that point with my iPhone this year.

 

[_Spinn_]

I'm still not convinced that a notch is needed on a laptop. To me the notch was always a necessary compromised needed on a phone to maximize screen space.

I am pretty sure that the rumors of the notch going away in next year's iPhone aren't true anymore.

 

[Black Magic]

It really, really, bothers me. It's hard to use something that is annoying you as much as fingernails on chalkboard. It had got to that point with my iPhone this year.

If that is the case, I understand. I hear the latest i9 leaked benchmarks kill the M1 Max. I'm sure that is marketing at work for Intel doing damage control. Maybe that is worth waiting on or the AMD Ryzen 6x series?

 

[chetzar]

What no one seems to be realising here is that this is a laptop for 'Professionals' and pro Software have a LOT of menu bar items that almost always overlap existing menu bar shortcuts (reference Architecture software), Cinema 4D will survive this because they run their menu items below the menu bar, guess every other pro software will have to do this now, thanks for this innovation Apple! Also, professionals NEED several menu bar apps to speed up work, this was already made worse my Big sur increasing the space between menu bar app shortcuts. IMHO A bunch of pro wannabes are designing apple pro machines since the trash can. All this power is useless if I'm constantly reminded that I'm using a computer instead of focusing on my creation.

And most 'Professionals' are going to use an external monitor most of the time, so it negates the notch issue entirely. Most 'Professionals" are not working form a 14 or 16 inch laptop screen all day long. If anything they use the built in screen for a secondary display.

Just because we understand why it exists does not mean we like it. I don't like it, but given all of the other terrible decisions Apple has forced on the MacBook over the last 5ish years, this is (IMO) by far the least egregious of them.

 

[bobcomer]

If that is the case, I understand. I hear the latest i9 leaked benchmarks kill the M1 Max. I'm sure that is marketing at work for Intel doing damage control. Maybe that is worth waiting on or the AMD Ryzen 6x series?

Any fast machines will be enough for me, it really doesn't matter that much. While I like a laptop to be very responsive, I don't really use it for long running tasks that much. At work I need Windows and also have other types of machines for that. (mostly DB type work)

As long as I don't have to wait all that much, I'm good to go. A new Alder Lake CPU is the most interesting given the new architecture. Or a Ryzen 9 59XXX laptop would be great, but not a lot of RAM available in those for some reason. And who knows, Apple may announce an M1 Pro or Max Mac Mini soon, and I'd be interested in that too. In any case, I'm not in a hurry to buy, my fastest PC is still pretty fast. (An i9 desktop)

I was ready to buy a new MBP, but it is what it is. I probably would have ended up with a 14" M1 Pro with 64G of RAM, and maybe 1 or 2TB SSD. If it didn't have the notch, my only concern would have been that it's a little heavy for what I want. (and expensive, but I'd have traded in my M1 MBA to cover part of it)

 

[Starflyer]

I hope they do this in the 30" iMac.

 

[anthonymoody]

Here are some posts with various levels of support for the notch from the leak thread:



Those changes would be welcome.



My guess is the design was the result of the two team's collaboration.



Good points. Using the previously wasted space is a good design compromise.

I don't read a single thing amongst these quotes that is complimentary of the notch. Simply ways that it "might not be so bad" sort of thing. Compromises, which by their very nature explicitly mean that it isn't great. Oh, and one of the things stated as a hoped for downstream effect of the notch isn't even a thing.

I think probably people who don't mind a thing don't get worked up to post about a thing that may or may not be happening. Other people scream about it when it might happen and carry on when it does happen. Seems to me people who hate it say things like 'the truth is', 'end of story' and 'period', where people who don't mind say things like 'I don't mind it' and 'in my view'. Haters seem to have facts at their fingertips where likers have only opinions, they hold them more softly and feel less need to ram them down others throats as absolute truths.

And both things are entirely reasonable. I think it's a great compromise right now, but when technology makes it unnecessary of course they will abandon it. I'm sure Apple thought the built in optical drives were really good at the time, but you don't see them in many Macs now.

Not piping up to say that you don't particularly mind something ≠ I like this thing. Come on.

 

[MVMNT]

There’s a lot of people that hide the menu bar. Now if you hide it and use a full screen anything you’ll see a notch.

But... you're still getting more screen at the top. If you use full screen anything that top section goes dark to hide it.

 

[ElectricPotato]

...if they reach the notch zone.

You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into… the Notch Zone.

 

[photoj2754]

Light Dims-problem solved!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Why are we defending the notch in "hopes of future FaceID"?

Defend things on the merits of what they are at present.

If something needs to change for FaceID down the line -- do it then

 

[bsolar]

Compromises, which by their very nature explicitly mean that it isn't great.

A compromise can definitely be great if it allows to accomplish two inherently conflicting goals in a good way.

What I think some are missing here is that the alternative to the notch is not "having no notch but the same screen size": it would be "no notch and less screen size". The notch gives an option otherwise not possible.

To those who dislike the notch, Apple likely will allow to simply move the menu bar below it and set the screen area beside the notch black just like full-screen mode does and you effectively have the same result as with no notch.

 

[Baretta]

The notch is not for a future Face ID. That may not ever come to a MacBook because it’s not as useful in a laptop.

The notch is for a similar tech tho, one that will detect hand gestures and other controls. Apple already has tons of patents for this, all related to AR ambitions.

Leap Motion control is there for the one lunatic that wants to use it for more than a few hours.
Which is in line with Apple’s AR accomplishments

 

[Iconoclysm]

I'm a power user, but I'd hardly consider myself a "professional" when it comes to the apps that I use - mostly I live in a xcode or web browsers, but I have a 15" Macbook Pro and 1/2 of my menubar is icons. Looking at MS Edge, I don't think I could run Edge without either some menu items or menubar icons disappearing because of the notch.

I'm curious how Apple or the community is going to end up working around the notch - and make no mistake, it's a work around for poor hardware design - and what changes, if any, Apple is going to make.

There's some interesting psychology around buying expensive things that you don't like. Given that the notch is disliked, but you spent thousands on it, most people will attempt to rationalize the notch, as the alternative is to admit that they purchased something that they don't like. And that's how you end up with sheep. It's really slick marketing from Apple. I hope they stop it.

You know, it doesn't take much thought to figure out how simply this works. None of your apps will go full screen into that area unless they've been designed to. The screen is 16:10 WITHOUT the notch space. Think of it this way: Apple made the screen larger, giving you an extra row - and then they took a piece of that row away. There's no rationalization to be had, at least so long as you start with the correct information.

 

[nutjob]

We'll know for sure what we see iFixit's teardown and how large the components actually are.

We won't. If they were targeting a smaller notch they would have selected a smaller (more expensive) camera unit.

The teardown will be very interesting anyway though.

 

[nutjob]

Do you really think if there are smaller cameras out there that Apple wouldn't have used them?

Absolutely. You can order anything you're willing to pay for, especially if you're ordering millions like Apple. Apple routinely buys advanced components for its high end iPhone.