Apple Says Notch is a 'Smart Way' to Give Users More Space for Content on New MacBook Pros

[tomtad]

You just know if Dell had these notches Apple would be taking the mick of out of them.

I'm tired of people trying to defend it, it's too big and just bad design. Period.

Literally no one before the keynote even contemplated a notch, never mind a bigger notch than an iPhone, on the new MacBook yet here we are and it doesn't even have Face ID!

 

[return2sendai]

Your 12.9" iPad is considerably thicker than the screen of an MBP

Yup. And my 12.9 iPad’s camera is still on the wrong axis.

 

[chetzar]

Honestly, based on the images, I don't think I'm going to mind the notch. Will wait to see it in-person before making the purchase thought (also want to see they keyboard and rest of the device in-person before ordering one, along with benchmarks).

 

[bsolar]

What no one seems to be realising here is that this is a laptop for 'Professionals' and pro Software have a LOT of menu bar items that almost always overlap existing menu bar shortcuts (reference Architecture software), Cinema 4D will survive this because they run their menu items below the menu bar, guess every other pro software will have to do this now, thanks for this innovation Apple! Also, professionals NEED several menu bar apps to speed up work, this was already made worse my Big sur increasing the space between menu bar app shortcuts. IMHO A bunch of pro wannabes are designing apple pro machines since the trash can. All this power is useless if I'm constantly reminded that I'm using a computer instead of focusing on my creation.

The notch will basically eat 1 menu entry, but will make the full 16:10 screen space beneath available for content. It's a good compromise for me.

If it's not a good compromise for you, Apple could make available a mode where the menu bar is below the notch (if not already available).

 

[jlc1978]

What no one seems to be realising here is that this is a laptop for 'Professionals' and pro Software have a LOT of menu bar items that almost always overlap existing menu bar shortcuts (reference Architecture software), Cinema 4D will survive this because they run their menu items below the menu bar, guess every other pro software will have to do this now, thanks for this innovation Apple! Also, professionals NEED several menu bar apps to speed up work, this was already made worse my Big sur increasing the space between menu bar app shortcuts. IMHO A bunch of pro wannabes are designing apple pro machines since the trash can. All this power is useless if I'm constantly reminded that I'm using a computer instead of focusing on my creation.

Try Bartender - it has a no space mode; and IMHO Apple should have built in all the options contained in Bartender right into the menu bar design.

Maybe.... only that those sensors would be very similar to the ones used for FaceID and removing the TouchID button would save a few $.

I would not want to trade Touch ID for Face ID. Both is fine but given a choice I prefer Touch ID.

Basically, Notchgate is an argument between two options:

1. No notch, but larger bezels and hence, a much smaller screen.
2. Notch, but tiny bezels and a much bigger screen.

It blows my mind that anyone would choose option 1.

You left out an option:

3: Whine incessantly about something because, well, it's an Apple fan board.

Yup. And my 12.9 iPad’s camera is still on the wrong axis.

Very True. The iPad really needs 2 cameras. Using it in landscape is very annoying.

 

[Martyimac]

I was going to unsubscribe from this thread. But just before I hit that button, I realized that the entertainment value of the notch haters overrode the desire to not hear children arguing about how "bad, unnecessary, useless, etc etc" the notch was.
Has  stumbled before? Yep. And yet were we are 425 posts as I write this griping about what will turn out to be a good thing. How do I know that? I'd bet over 95% of you have an iPhone with a notch and guess what? It didn't ruin the iPhone and it won't ruin the MBP.

 

[bobcomer]

Question for the notch haters: would you have preferred if Apple had bumped out the top edge of the lid to accommodate the camera?

Yes.

Trouble is it would then be called the WartBook Pro instead of NotchBook Pro

I don't really do nicknames...

 

[bobcomer]

Isn’t the nub a proprietary Lenovo patent, formerly IBM?

No. Some Dell's have it as well. It's called a Trackpoint btw. It's darn useful if you have to carry around your laptop a lot, and I prefer it over the trackpad as it needs way less hand movement.

 

[anthonymoody]

The truth is that the notch is an abomination. Here's how we know: when the leak came out a couple days before the announcement it was 100% mocked and ridiculed. Not a single person in the leak thread here or on reddit said "gee what a good idea" or "wow that's a really good and interesting design." Not one. It was panned. 100%. And not only because the design was bad, but because the design was so bad that the sentiment was that there was no way in hell Apple would release such a thing. People actually thought it was a joke. This idea was judged as 100% poor when it was a rumor. To say otherwise is revisionist history.

Now, did Apple sorta kinda make (very tart) lemonade out of lemons to address an engineering challenge? Maybe ish? But the idea that "we'll get used to it" and "it won't ruin the MBP" isn't the point when judging whether or not the design is "good." It's just not. And if you think it's good design then please show me in the leak thread where you said so.

 

[bobcomer]

Ultimately people are suggesting:

“I’m not super impressed with the notch, even though it runs 16:10. I’m going to leave the Apple ecosystem and get a Windows 11 machine running Android apps. Even though I can already do that on the M1.”

Well, I hate the notch, and I'm not going to leave the Apple ecosystem over it just yet, I just wont be buying a laptop or monitor that has a notch, everything else is fair game. (I expect their next monitor will have the notch as well)

As for running android on the desktop, I've done it on and off for years, Windows 11 Android is just the first time it was part of the OS.

 

[dannys1]

It still looks bloody awful no matter how they or anyone else tries to spin it. It’s an eyesore. Not everyone likes using dark mode to try and ‘hide’ it either.

When you have to resort to using workarounds via software to try and disguise a hardware design decision then that is bad design. End of story.

It's incredible how many people say it's fine to add ports, make it thicker, make it heavier, make it uglier because it's a "pro machine" and it doesn't matter how it looks - and then at the same time lose their mind over a notch that looks perfectly fine (on a pro machine where apparently it should be function over form anyway)

 

[bobcomer]

I'd bet over 95% of you have an iPhone with a notch and guess what? I didn't ruin the iPhone and it won't ruin the MBP.

Well, I replaced my iPhone with an android phone this year, way before the MBP notch rumor -- all because I got tired of the notch. (I started with iPhones with the 4 and bought almost every one since then until the 12, which I didn't buy, than I replaced my iPhone 11 PM with an android phone. I'd buy another iPhone in a second if it didn't have the notch.

You may think its whining, but so what, esthetics are important if you use something a lot and if it starts annoying you, it's hard to ignore.

 

[Saturn007]

A question for you all as a break from the notch-bashing. Others have pointed out that the menu bar is now higher than the notch — and bigger than it was before.

Does that mean that the menu titles will have a larger text size and, hence, be more readable? That would be helpful!

Oh, and does it mean that all programs will use the bigger menu bar? With more readable menus? Looking at you Microsoft and Word and Excel.

In any case, back to the notch-bashing! They didn't need a notch to increase the height of the menu bar and make the text more readable!

The camera engineering and laptop-display design teams must work in sync. However, it seems as if the camera engineers delivered a bigger camera module than expected and the display gurus had to introduce the notch near the end of development to accommodate the new camera. That would explain the late-breaking rumors and info — and the lame, post hoc Apple rationalizations.

“It's not a design failure, it's a design feature!”

 

[Devnul0]

What Apple needs to do now is logically resize the screen on iOS so that the "notch" doesn't obscure content and instead you get the two "rabbit ears" on either side into which to extend battery, cell, wifi, camera, and other indicators. They were smarter about this with the Macs, but on the phone having part of the display being obscured remains unacceptable.

 

[mateus]

OK, so this answers some of our questions: https://developer.apple.com/documen...ist/nsprefersdisplaysafeareacompatibilitymode

An app's menus will appear on either side of the notch if they reach the notch zone.

 

[bobcomer]

So then to summarize:

You can run a Dell running macOS running Windows 11 running Android on an iPad Pro using Sidecar.

If you're very patient, it wouldn't be fast on anything.

 

[Martyimac]

Well, I replaced my iPhone with an android phone this year, way before the MBP notch rumor -- all because I got tired of the notch. (I started with iPhones with the 4 and bought almost every one since then until the 12, which I didn't buy, than I replaced my iPhone 11 PM with an android phone. I'd buy another iPhone in a second if it didn't have the notch.

You may think its whining, but so what, esthetics are important if you use something a lot and if it starts annoying you, it's hard to ignore.

Sounds to me like you are well on your way out of the  ecosystem. Enjoy your Android phone and Windows/Linux computers. Stay safe.

 

[arekm]

Why is space on left and right of dock bar not counting as "more space for users"? On ultrawide monitor plenty of space there is wasted. *Much more* than around camera was. macos doesn't align windows there properly (if you want 1/4 of screen for example), provides no api to query about space there etc.

(case when dock bar is always displaying)

 

[satchmo]

Okay, sure I get the usability and Apple's rationale.
But could their solution have used a dot instead of a massive notch? IMO, a dot would at least not feel like a heavy stamp across the forehead.

Yes, it's a 1080 cam and other sensors. But once we get the tear down, I'd love to see if there was any 'wasted' space.
And frankly, future FaceID implementation should never be a reason to make it bigger than it has to be now.

 

[jlc1978]

The truth is that the notch is an abomination. Here's how we know: when the leak came out a couple days before the announcement it was 100% mocked and ridiculed. Not a single person in the leak thread here or on reddit said "gee what a good idea" or "wow that's a really good and interesting design." Not one. It was panned. 100%. And not only because the design was bad, but because the design was so bad that the sentiment was that there was no way in hell Apple would release such a thing. People actually thought it was a joke. This idea was judged as 100% poor when it was a rumor. To say otherwise is revisionist history.

Here are some posts with various levels of support for the notch from the leak thread:

If it means 98% bezzeles and full screen immerse experience. I'd go for it. At least it'll be easy to buy since 99% of people will hate it.

IF true, good and bad news.

Bad: there would be a notch.

Good: bezel would be thin enough to require it.

Honestly, with the screen being 16:10, if they kept full screen videos in the bottom 16:9, and it just sat in the menu bar, honestly, it would be WAY less intrusive than on iPhone, where it is on the side for video and they don’t push the video over to compensate.

it’s only okay if it brings Face ID, though.

What’s the problem?? The Mac has a menu bar that’s always showing so it’ll just cover it up. Unless you’re full screen in some app but even still showing the menu bar is pretty common I would think

I would be ok with this, because I never use my Mac full screen, and there is nothing in the menubar there anyway. But I'm sure there are plenty of people that use there Mac full screen for movies, and a notch at the top would be much more noticeable than on the side on the iPhone(Landscape watching 16:9) But this isn't going to happen.

I think I’d marginally fall on the side of being pro a notch. The benefit seems to be that the overall machine can be smaller for a given display size. It would just occupy a bit of the menu bar which wouldn’t be a huge problem for 99% of apps.

Only concern would be some pro apps like Maya that have loads of menus.

A question for you all as a break from the notch-bashing. Others have pointed out that the menu bar is now higher than the notch — and bigger than it was before.

Does that mean that the menu titles will have a larger text size and, hence, be more readable? That would be helpful!

Oh, and does it mean that all programs will use the bigger menu bar? With more readable menus? Looking at you Microsoft and Word and Excel.

Those changes would be welcome.

In any case, back to the notch-bashing! They didn't need a notch to increase the height of the menu bar and make the text more readable!

The camera engineering and laptop-display design teams must work in sync. However, it seems as if the camera engineers delivered a bigger camera module than expected and the display gurus had to introduce the notch near the end of development to accommodate the new camera.

My guess is the design was the result of the two team's collaboration.

Why is space on left and right of dock bar not counting as "more space for users"? On ultrawide monitor plenty of space there is wasted. *Much more* than around camera was. macos doesn't align windows there properly (if you want 1/4 of screen for example), provides no api to query about space there etc.

(case when dock bar is always displaying)

Good points. Using the previously wasted space is a good design compromise.

 

[bobcomer]

Does that mean that the menu titles will have a larger text size and, hence, be more readable? That would be helpful!

I doubt it, it's taller, yes, but it's less space horizontally.

 

[svish]

Apple will be defending the notch. Apple will be making the notch smaller in the future.

 

[bobcomer]

Sounds to me like you are well on your way out of the  ecosystem.

To a degree, yes, but I still have multiple Apple devices, especially iPads, and Intel Mac's. I can't see myself not buying new iPads, well at least as long as they don't have a notch.

Enjoy your Android phone and Windows/Linux computers. Stay safe.

I already have, I've never been a one OS, one type of hardware, guy. I use Windows at work almost exclusively and my fastest, best equipped, home machine is a Windows machine. That doesn't mean I haven't spent a lot of money on Apple products and don't have the right to complain.

 

[Black Magic]

To a degree, yes, but I still have multiple Apple devices, especially iPads, and Intel Mac's. I can't see myself not buying new iPads, well at least as long as they don't have a notch.

I already have, I've never been a one OS, one type of hardware, guy. I use Windows at work almost exclusively and my fastest, best equipped, home machine is a Windows machine. That doesn't mean I haven't spent a lot of money on Apple products and don't have the right to complain.

Im wondering if the notch is here to stay for a while if they are introducing this design to new products in 2021? I was thinking the notch was nearing the end of its lifecycle in Apple products based on iPhone implementation....

 

[Tagbert]

Let’s not forget when Steve Jobs forced that horrible U2 album in all of our iPhones…I’ll never forgive him for that. This is the problem with Apple…they think they know what’s “best” for us professional users.

I know. I’m still in therapy dealing with that situation. ?