Apple Says Spotify Wants 'Limitless Access' to App Store Tools Without Paying

[inuragon]

Well, purchases of iPhones up until now certainly hasn't been a vote for the Android approach of multiple app stores and side loading.

Yes, they haven't been vote for anything.
iPhones are awesome devices with lots of cool features, they are not just android with walled garden added, that means people buy them for various reasons and you can't assume any purchase to mean support for any specific feature of iPhone.

 

[tehabe]

So when iPhone launched it had only apple apps.
Jobs wanted web apps for other things.
He was convinced to allow an app store and dev tools.

Android also started out with just OS embedded apps.

Would you prefer devices with just OS apps or a system where you can install millions of apps that meet 99% of your needs?

One or the other.

We have people on here arguing that Android doesnt go far enough and meet their needs...

DMA wont solve any of the issues these people want fixed.

That is a false dilemma.

 

[I7guy]

Yes, they haven't been vote for anything.
iPhones are awesome devices with lots of cool features, they are not just android with walled garden added, that means people buy them for various reasons and you can't assume any purchase to mean support for any specific feature of iPhone.

I think most people put the positives up against the negatives and if the positives win….

Sometimes though I do believe the price and value equation are flipped with a product having the least amount of negatives as opposed to the most positives.

 

[inuragon]

I think most people put the positives up against the negatives and if the positives win….

That is my point exactly, people can dislike the walled garden strongly but think iPhones have other positives that overweigh the negative of walled garden.

 

[tehabe]

Too many people misuse or plain don't understand the word "monopoly".

The fact that Android exists means iOS is not a monopoly. Period.

And that is why we are not talking about monopoly of iOS, not even the DMA says monopoly. But what the EU and the DMA claims is, that the App Store has a monopoly-like outcome for the market because it is a gatekeeper.

 

[truthsteve]

Yes, and that is the problem. Apple has too much control of what iOS users can and can't do. And one part is by controlling who can participate on the market and who can't.

Same way Microsoft keeps introducing features no one wants in Windows
Same way Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo doesn't allow porn games on their platforms
Same way Tesla doesn't allow Apple CarPlay and Android Auto in their cars
Same way Samsung includes ads in their Smart TVs for extra revenue


Not a problem.

 

[pastrychef]

Yes, they haven't been vote for anything.
iPhones are awesome devices with lots of cool features, they are not just android with walled garden added, that means people buy them for various reasons and you can't assume any purchase to mean support for any specific feature of iPhone.

I think most people put the positives up against the negatives and if the positives win….

Sometimes though I do believe the price and value equation are flipped with a product having the least amount of negatives as opposed to the most positives.

That is my point exactly, people can dislike the walled garden strongly but think iPhones have other positives that overweigh the negative of walled garden.

Fair enough. I can agree with that.

 

[truthsteve]

Unlucky for you Apple’s business practices are getting ripped apart by a certain government

Hence, what Apple is arguing...which is the whole point of the article. 🤦‍♂️

 

[tehabe]

Same way Microsoft keeps introducing features no one wants in Windows
Same way Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo doesn't allow porn games on their platforms
Same way Tesla doesn't allow Apple CarPlay and Android Auto in their cars
Same way Samsung includes ads in their Smart TVs for extra revenue


Not a problem.

We are actually not talking about any of those but about Apple's iOS.

 

[webkit]

Except that’s exactly what it is. Apple is a drop in the bucket compared to all that’s out there even though in an individual model basis it sells well.

Except that's not exactly what it is. The issue is about mobile app store/app access and Apple is FAR from a "drop in the bucket." Apple (with iOS) and Google (with Android) have significant control and share of the app store/app access market.

 

[Hails09]

No, the main purpose of a developer is not to play games but to make money. There is no difference between a game developer and an app developer. I would point out all of this nonsense started with a game company, Epic Games, the first company to go after Apple. Spotify sensed an opportunity and piled on. All it takes is one game company to make a stink on a console and they’ll get hit, too. US courts weren’t sympathetic at all, but the EU did because they are much more Big Brother than US regulators. The US has plenty of anti-trust laws. They just didn’t agree Apple was being anti-competitive.

Again app developers care enough to force games consoles to open up
Where as developers want Apple opened up

 

[GroovyCatticus]

I don’t live in an EU member state anymore (i’m from the UK)

Obviously they should drop the BS app rejections, Spotify (or whoever else) should be allowed to use their own payment processor, talk about promotional pricing and link out to their own site or any other site (assuming that does not compromise the privacy and security of the end user). This is an absolute minimum.

If the third party dev uses their own payment processor to facilitate an in app transaction Apple shouldn't get a cut of that. If I buy a kindle book in Amazons app I consider that transaction to be between me and Amazon. If I purchased a Kindle book in chrome on my Mac Apple would get nothing.

Apple should open their services up to real competition on their platform. So no locking down the NFC chip so nobody can compete with Apple Pay, No keeping Siri commands exclusive to Apple Music for years, No restriction on what browser engine can be used etc etc

if they did all that, I don't really care about sideloading or third party stores. I think most would be happy with that.

Also their 'core techology fees' and 'new business terms' are obviously devised to make any circumvention of the App Store and its associated fees and policies completely non viable and should be rejected out of hand.

So if Spotify uses their own payment processor with links to it directly in their app (circumventing App Store processing), how much do they pay Apple per year?

$99?

Sounds like a REALLY good deal for Spotify 😉

 

[Hails09]

Hence, what Apple is arguing...which is the whole point of the article. 🤦‍♂️

Maybe you should put the thing in context rather than just clipping one thing

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Again app developers care enough to force games consoles to open up
Where as developers want Apple opened up

Which developers exactly? The only ones I’ve heard from are Spotify and Epic.

How will “opening up” help consumers? Will apps get cheaper? Will the platform be more secure?

 

[Hails09]

Which developers exactly? The only ones I’ve heard from are Spotify and Epic.

How will “opening up” help consumers? Will apps get cheaper? Will the platform be more secure?

I meant to put don’t care enough to open it up

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

So if Spotify uses their own payment processor with links to it directly in their app (circumventing App Store processing), how much do they pay Apple per year?

$99?

Sounds like a REALLY good deal for Spotify 😉

Yeah. They don't owe Apple a cut of their business, the enormous profits Apple make on the hardware more than cover it.

If I sub to Apple Music for a month on my iPhone should Samsung get a cut of the subscription fee because they made the display for the device?

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Yeah. They don't owe Apple a cut of their business, the enormous profits Apple make on the hardware more than cover it.

If I sub to Apple Music for a month on my iPhone should Samsung get a cut of the subscription fee because they made the display for the device?

You are conveniently forgetting that Apple is constantly updating the APIs and XCode, not to mention hosting the app on the App Store.

Your argument could be made to Spotify — Artists shouldn’t owe Spotify a cut of their work. What has Spotify done to earn that?

At least Apple is providing updated software and APIs. What does Spotify provide to an Artist?

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

You are conveniently forgetting that Apple is constantly updating the APIs and XCode, not to mention hosting the app on the App Store.

Your argument could be made to Spotify — Artists shouldn’t owe Spotify a cut of their work. What has Spotify done to earn that?

At least Apple is providing updated software and APIs. What does Spotify provide to an Artist?

Artists don't pay Spotify a cut of their work?

 

[I7guy]

Except that's not exactly what it is. The issue is about mobile app store/app access and Apple is FAR from a "drop in the bucket." Apple (with iOS) and Google (with Android) have significant control and share of the app store/app access market.

It certainly is that. The market is all smart phones of which apple is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

It certainly is that. The market is all smart phones of which apple is a drop in the bucket.

Seems strange that this little drop in the bucket is attracting so much attention from regulators all over the world.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

Artists don't pay Spotify a cut of their work?

Money from ads and subscriptions doesn’t all go to the artists. Spotify keeps the vast majority and a tiny amount goes to the artist.

Using YOUR logic, Spotify shouldn’t be keeping that money. What does Spotify do for artists besides host the music?

That’s your argument about Apple and Spotify on the App Store in a nutshell.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Huh? Of course artists (via their labels) pay Spotify for hosting their work.

Using YOUR logic, Spotify shouldn’t be taking that cut. What does Spotify do for artists besides host it?

That’s your argument about Apple and Spotify on the App Store in a nutshell.

It really isn't.

You are completely ignoring the fact that Apple directly competes with Spotify. Spotify is not competing directly with musicians or record labels.

The scenario I proposed has existed for decades with the Mac, apparently it is outrageous to suggest it should be similar on iOS.

 

[GroovyCatticus]

It really isn't.

You are completely ignoring the fact that Apple directly competes with Spotify. Spotify is not competing directly with musicians or record labels.

The scenario I proposed has existed for decades with the Mac, apparently it is outrageous to suggest it should be similar on iOS.

Apple competes with many apps on the App Store. Those apps don’t get a free ride. They follow the rules about offering in app purchases if they want to be in the App Store.

They are free to offer purchases and subscriptions outside the store (just like Spotify) if they don’t want to use in app purchases. Just no direct links allowed!

Netflix manages this fine, and yet Apple TV+ exists!

With the new EU rules, they’ll be able to have links, but TANSTAAFL 😉

Let me know when Spotify offers up free ads on their platform with links to purchase and no cut back to Spotify 😂

You know the Mac has never required the App Store. It’s a general purpose computer, not a smartphone. Apple, the creator of the iPhone, doesn’t see it as a general purpose computer.

What YOU see it as (or wish it was) really doesn’t matter!

 

[I7guy]

Seems strange that this little drop in the bucket is attracting so much attention from regulators all over the world.

They are extraordinary influential.

 

[wbeasley]

Yes, but if we accept Apple's arguments about the iPhone, the Mac really should be like that also.

Obviously that would be ridiculous for the Mac. But I don't think it would be a disaster for the iPhone - we'll all soon find out when the changes go live in the EU.

Not really.

A phone is a consumer device.
A PC is general purpose tool.

Totally different things.
Sure they share a lot of hardware and software (as a company that is vertically integrated leverages it's strengths does). But all along, Apple has pitched their devices at different tasks. sure it stops cannibalizing sales but they have also said each product is designed for the best experience at it's main task.

We dont expect to use laptops for phone calls (we do expect to use them for group video calls though).
We dont cart a laptop around to pay for groceries.
Most dont take photos on their iPads.

If you want a pocket PC, but a pocket PC. They exist. 7" screens running Windows.
But few find value in it after the novelty of the min eeePCs in the early 2000s.