Apple Says Third-Generation Keyboards Exclusive to 2018 MacBook Pro

[Martius]

Or you could just get any issue repaired under their repair program. I suppose if your 2016 Ford Mustang had a problem with the engine... one they happily will repair under warranty... you scream outrage and demand an engine from the 2018 Ford Mustang.

On a serious note... Do we even know if the new ones would physically even fit properly in the old chassis? Seems to me that there could very well be a lot of chassis and internals changes that make it not possible to put it in.
[doublepost=1531718063][/doublepost]

I've dealt with Apple for many many years.. and have always, and I really mean always, found them to have one of the best warranty coverage programs of any company I've ever dealt with. I've never had any other product that I could so easily walk into their store and get it repaired in a couple hours, while I go shopping in the mall. This includes them having a pretty well known history of allowing their techs enough leeway to authorize repairs for problems that are either out of the warranty period, or for damage they know was caused by the user (such as water damage).
Since you suggest otherwise, I'd be curious to know what other company has a better program. And I'm not saying that to be snarky. I just wonder if people that complain on here either have a short history with Apple, or have not had occasion to need repairs done by them. Because I've never known anyone that had any problems.

I have never said there is something bad about Apple warranty / or repair program. I said I think there is problem in their behavior and communication. Right know people are not sure what to do... are those 2018 keyboards ok? What about the replacement parts for the 2016 / 2017? Are we going to have issues with them? You pay huge premium for Apple computer, so I expect premium support. No need to thank Apple...

And you are from the US, right? Try dealing with Apple in countries without Apple Store (we have just the online store). Not that good... not that good.

 

[travelsheep]

thin silicone layer let's see how long this is going to hold, or if it's going to break/start to dissolve after 3+ years, which will make it necessary to replace not only the keyboard, but the logic board and pretty much the whole MacBook Pro, the way it is built...

 

[hagar]

Can someone explain to me why it would be a good idea to glue the battery to the top case and keyboard?
Or why you need to replace the internals of the iPhone X when the backplate shatters?

I really dislike this part of Apple and it reflects poorly on them.

Imagine they’d put customers and the environment first and allow for maximum repairability.

 

[magbarn]

Can someone explain to me why it would be a good idea to glue the battery to the top case and keyboard?
Or why you need to replace the internals of the iPhone X when the backplate shatters?

I really dislike this part of Apple and it reflects poorly on them.

Imagine they’d put customers and the environment first and allow for maximum repairability.

C'mon get with the program. It's Ive's motto: Durability, Reliability, and Quality be damned for a few mm's...

 

[tripmusic]

I'm still using a 2011 MBP. Keyboard works fine.

 

[aevan]

C'mon get with the program. It's Ive's motto: Durability, Reliability, and Quality be damned for a few mm's...

You can make reliable and quality things that are thin, so don't confuse the two. Also, a lot of users WANT their devices more portable. I for one am glad the latest MBPs are smaller and lighter. That's not an excuse for reliability issues, though.

And no, they are not small enough, before you ask. The 15" is cumbersome, and when they shave off the bezels around the screen, and reduce the thickness even further, it will be the perfect size for portable work.

It better have a reliable keyboard, though.
[doublepost=1531723224][/doublepost]

I'm still using a 2011 MBP. Keyboard works fine.

Obviously, the challenge is to make a keyboard that works just as reliable (or better) as a 2011 MBP, but is significantly smaller and on a lighter notebook.

 

[Ribitsch]

That’s really disappointing. 1 week ago I just got the 2nd replacement in under 2 years and it seems now it’s still a faulty replacement of 2nd gen.
Thankfully the have a replacement program for the time to come, otherwise it would be many hundreds of € because they have to change the whole top case (bad design imho)

 

[narcolpetic-haze]

Honestly as much as I want to finally jump in with a mac, even with the "new" keyboard, I think it's just too much of a risk (the Macbook Pro 15" commands a $1000 premium over a similarly spec'd XPS 15 laptop), especially if the 2018 model doesn't get added to the extended warranty program. I think Apple needs to do more to address people's trepidations about the subject rather than just coming out with an updated keyboard which is merely described as "quieter".

 

[recoil80]

Not a good news for a 2016 owner like me. My only complain about the keyboard is noise, getting a quieter keyboard in case of repair would be great but apparently I'd get only a slightly improved version of mine, most likely the 2017 version of it

 

[Substance90]

No, it doesn't self destruct, and that would not be planned obsolescence.

Well, okay, let's play your game.

• It doesn't self destruct but its design actively helps in getting it destroyed
• A laptop becoming unusable after 1 year of use is obsolescence
• If Apple engineers anticipated that the switch design might lead to these problems, it's not just obsolescence but also planned

 

[geromi912]

I don’t see why it isn’t fair to swap a defective one for the same thing you originally paid for instead of giving a free upgrade.

Because it’s a known design flaw and they’re replacing a flawed one with another flawed one that’s destined to fail again.

 

[Virinprew]

That's the downside of being an early adopter. It doesn't mean that Apple is losing its touch. It's just that no matter what you do to ensure the quality, you can't test it in all conditions that happen in real world uses.

 

[sammy2066]

I don’t see why it isn’t fair to swap a defective one for the same thing you originally paid for instead of giving a free upgrade.

It isn't fair because the part being swapped is inherently flawed, and not 'occasionally' defective. So if a new part fixes the inherent flaw, then it isn't a free upgrade to get it, it's the customer's right. Unbelievable how people here blindly side with Apple.
[doublepost=1531728073][/doublepost]

IMHO Jony Ive should have no further influence on Mac hardware design.

I absolutely agree. That joker values design at the expense of functionality and user experience. We all know what happened since they put him in charge of iOS design.
[doublepost=1531728312][/doublepost]

I have a 2017 with TB and I am of the same mind. I would be willing to pay a bit to get the new one, but I doubt that will be an option.

I would refrain from dropping money on the Mid-2018 MBPs - the 3rd generation keyboards simply alleviate issues with the design. It doesn't change the fact that it is an inherently flawed and unergonomic design.
[doublepost=1531728908][/doublepost]

On a serious note... Do we even know if the new ones would physically even fit properly in the old chassis? Seems to me that there could very well be a lot of chassis and internals changes that make it not possible to put it in.
[doublepost=1531718063][/doublepost]

Congratulations. You've just described planned obsolescence in great detail.

 

[manu chao]

Err, MacRumors you've been around for a few years - you know full well that's exactly the kind of thing Apple does. GPU failures with MacBooks for example - yep, replaced with exactly the same mainboard that suffered the exact same fault several years later.

Your sentence is utterly wrong and misleading.

Sure, replacing a part that failed after three or four years with another one that might also fail after three to four years is exactly the same as replacing a part that might fail after three to four months with another part that will again in three to four months. There have been many reports of people having their keyboards replaced multiple times with only months between. I don't recall similar reports for GPU failures.

 

[Onexy]

I'm looking forward to replacing my keyboard every few months for the next 2 years... until the repair program ends for my 2016 MacBook Pro.

What an ass-move by Apple to not retrofit this to previous machines.

 

[interessiert]

Another big scandal caused by Apple technicians:
They changed from a secure system in classical keyboards all over the globe (arms gliding outwards while cleaning bottom in touch area by itself) to a lousy advertising gag of inventive activity (Butterly arms just touch down to bottom - and if there is some dust particle then contact problem are inevitable).
Keyboard-gate - after bent-gate / touch disease / battery-gate (swollen batteries and replacement program)

Breaking news: Apple is strongly working of the thinnest cars ever ! Another fabulous idea of this Jony Ive

I know one mainly responsible for this chaos: Jony Ive
No, I know two: a weak chief Tim Cook who doesn't resist his designer's foolish ideas.

 

[markedlymac]

PEOPLE. If you bought a MacBook Pro with a defective design in the last 12 months (or even 24 months in many countries), Apple is legally required to issue you a full refund for your unit, right? (Which is easy, because the existence of the Keyboard Service Program itself means Apple already acknowledges the defect!) This refund can be either under Apple's own 'Apple Limited Warranty', or as a claim of statutory warranty consumer rights which Apple mention on their own website.

If I have to, I will exercise my consumer rights in exactly this way on Wednesday to get my atrocious POS 2017 MBP keyboard finally replaced with a design (2018) that doesn't have this problem! I've been WAITING for this patent and now Apple are delivering!

I am quite certain, however, that the Apple Store staff will be nice when I show them my awful, 50%-of-the-time-working Caps Lock key and other disasters which have been causing me daily grief for 4 months now, and just quickly arrange an Apple Store Gift Card return / exchange right there and then after an assessment of what I will show of my keyboard. Apple staff are legendarily great, and I'm a loyal MacBook hardware user.

So please, if you are within 12/24 months of your MacBook's purchase, exercise your rights. You don't have to be screwed if it's a unit older than 14 or 30 days.

 

[Bacillus]

Comparing anything inflammable (meaning risk to life) with a keyboard that can have sticky/ repetitive/ failing keys (meaning risk to productivity, not life) is not quite right.

Aside differences, there is the blatant indifference of manufacturers towards flawed design.

 

[Resnais371]

I just remembered Steve Jobs iphone antenna solution- "youre holding it wrong" In the parallel universe of keyboard-gate, there is staingate, where apple replaces macbook pro screens for free, with same-timebomb displays. I believe this low-profile keyboard was needed to tackle the staingate problem. And now the low profile keyboard is a problem- same thing: replacing with same-timebomb keyboards

 

[macintoshmac]

Aside differences, there is the blatant indifference of manufacturers towards flawed design.

Completely agree with you.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

A textbook example of wishful thinking

"Hopefully, in that case, it means that Apple has quietly tweaked the second-generation keyboard to be more reliable. It wouldn't really make sense for Apple to replace keyboards with ones that are just as prone to break again, especially if the third-generation keyboards offer a fix."​

.. and, delusion.

[de·lu·sion

an idiosyncratic belief or impression that is firmly maintained despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality or rational argument, typically a symptom of mental disorder.]
​

iMessage to MacRumors' Editor: This is Tim Cook's Apple.

 

[lec0rsaire]

Ok here’s how I understand the situation:
They have increased the battery capacity slightly to help mitigate the extra consumption used by standard DDR4. Depending on how the battery is laid out it might not be physically possible to retrofit a 2018 top case on a 2016-2017 machine.

I expect the logic board to still be very much the same design. Same fans, same layout. It is the same gen after all. We will have to wait for a tear down to find out.

As for the keyboard. This “3rd” gen doesn’t seem much like a new gen at all. The silicone on the switches is what is dampening the sound as well as keeping debris out. The design is identical aside this change which leads one to wonder why don’t they just manufacture direct 2016-2017 replacements with this silicone? This is not getting a “free upgrade.” It is getting a repair. No one is demanding a new logic board with 2 extra cores. That is a free upgrade.

 

[macintoshmac]

I just remembered Steve Jobs iphone antenna solution- "youre holding it wrong" In the parallel universe of keyboard-gate, there is staingate, where apple replaces macbook pro screens for free, with same-timebomb displays. I believe this low-profile keyboard was needed to tackle the staingate problem. And now the low profile keyboard is a problem- same thing: replacing with same-timebomb keyboards

Suppose you create a product and sell millions of it (MBP 2011 with AMD graphics). There comes out a defect in it (while your factories are still producing parts with the same defect that was so far unknown). Meanwhile, you release a product with updated specs (MBP 2012 not rMBP).

1. Are you going to replace each and every MBP 2011 that comes to you claiming the defect, with a 2012 MBP without that defect?
2. Or, are you going to produce millions of new parts that fix the problem?
3. Or, are you going to offer free replacement of defective product with the same defective product (but working) to extend the lifespan for as long as it works?

Do answer without retorting or anything, just clear yes and nos.

 

[TheShadowKnows!]

1. Are you going to replace each and every MBP 2011 that comes to you claiming the defect, with a 2012 MBP without that defect?
2. Or, are you going to produce millions of new parts that fix the problem?
3. Or, are you going to offer free replacement of defective product with the same defective product (but working) to extend the lifespan for as long as it works?

Do answer without retorting or anything, just clear yes and nos.

Dude, you have just underscored the differences among:

1. a replacement (a swap) versus
2. a recall (a fix)

Will we have, eventually, a recall? That is for the civil courts to (eventually) decide.

 

[DVD Plaza]

Sure, replacing a part that failed after three or four years with another one that might also fail after three to four years is exactly the same as replacing a part that might fail after three to four months with another part that will again in three to four months. There have been many reports of people having their keyboards replaced multiple times with only months between. I don't recall similar reports for GPU failures.

Firstly, when comparing behaviour time is irrelevant - whether you only rob a bank every few years, whether you fit replacement parts you know will fail again in a few years, etc doesn't change the fact that you are guilty of such behaviour.

Secondly, do you actually know first-hand what you're talking about? My first failed after three years, but in hindsight I wasn't working the GPU at all until the final few months - machine was roasting hot while I was trying to edit my wedding footage in Final Cut Pro and then died. Once fixed I lasted a few more months of heavy Final Cut Pro editing and rendering and then it fried again with the exact same fault.

So yes, had I used a $6000 computer for simply browsing the web I'm sure she would have lasted 4 years before frying again - but if that's all such a "Pro" computer is capable of then that's another level of stupidity again. But no, when I continued the same work that caused the GPU to fry it happened again in a matter of months... because, regardless of you condoning what Apple did because of "time", they replaced known defective with known defective.