Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[wigby]

I agree, the Touch Bar gives all the contextually appropriate benefits of multitouch without having to place your hands in an un-ergonomic angle, and mark up the screen. It seems to make a lot of sense to me, however in addition to the touch bar, including a full multitouch monitor would be nice for those who insist on poking at the screen. And seriously, now that we have a giant trackpad why no support for the Pencil??

You want support for the Pencil on a screen with no display? That request made sense 20 years ago but not today.

 

[MacAlex2016]

Why then Apple did you develop the iPad. Touch screens aren't part of computing?? Then I guess the iPad Pro isn't a computer like your ads say.

Exactly. All the parents that kids will take their kids shopping and the young kids will try and type on the Mac Laptops and the kids will go try the Surface Pro 3/4 and will say "mommy/daddy". I want the one with a touch screen that has a removable keyboard.
You put a room full of kids in a place that has all types of computers and I guarantee the kids will choose
the the touch screen devices.

Dear Apple CEO - young kids today do not have allegiance to a technology company as you did when you grew up. The young kids want what works easiest.
For that piece of advice send me $1000.
Read the older peoples post here - old allegiance to a tech company. Young people - who cares who makes the technology.

 

[niun]

Agreed, its too early, but some of the concerns I have may not be resolved with more apps being supported, but to be fair, giving it some time is a sound move.

I like the idea of it.
I don't like the placement of it. Seems wrong. That info should be closer to the trackpad to make it more easily accessible.
It should be a natural move from trackpad to touchbar to perform certain actions. It should be as natural as a right click..

But I'm pretty sure they didn't want to fugly the clean look.

 

[Dave245]

So, in your opinion, what did Microsoft copied from the iMac to make the Surface Studio?

And remember that all-in-one PCs have existed long before the iMac.

I think they copied the look of the iMac or at the very least took inspiration from it, even the video/promo for it felt very Apple like, at least to me anyway. Personally i'm not a fan of Windows, i use to use them before i brought my very first MacBook Pro in 2011. BUT i can't comment on the usage of this Windows Studio because i've not used it or had any sort of hands on, for all i know it could be a great machine. My opinion is that Touchscreen should be reserved for tablets and NOT computers, i would be saying the same thing if Apple were to produce a touchscreen Mac.

 

[Pilgrim1099]

Exactly. My pops was an advertising layout artist in the 70s - and he did them on mechanicals on his drafting table. He would render the FPOs with markers and set them on. When i saw the surface studio I thought of him. It is basically an all in one Cintiq.

It is some crazy idiotic denial. I had a drawing pencil in my hand at 6 and been using A wacom tablet since my early days as a junior designer out of college. But apple is trying to tell me that something that incorporates everything in one (plus multi touch) is useless.

I have a 2.6LB vaio canvas now, and can say as a fact that they are dead wrong.

I took Commercial Art back in the late 1980s and then did art school a few years later. Mechanical pencil ( lead holders ) were the business, and still are. I used the Ames lettering guide for copy and text. Even the markers I used on transparent paper or such for gradients were the norm at the time. I know some artists still do that by hand but lately it's been used digitally with Copic markers on Sketchbook Pro which I have and a godsend. Even the smell of markers at the Industral Design department brings back memories seeing conceptual designs of cars ( one reason why this school is one of the best in the country ).

Then when the iPad came out several years ago, the art school created a new program called the iPad Foundation where students were provided the devices and required to use them. Amazing. But of course, I'm sure by now they use Cintiqs in their computer lab after a major renovation that was finished last year. They did have the older Wacoms back in the 1990s which I remember well and I had one at home which died out. I had to get a new replacement and then an Intuos4 five years ago which still works to this day, along with my brand new iPad Pro ( an agency paid for it in full..lucky me ) so I can do some illustration and conceptual work on it.

As for mechanical drafting tables, they're classic. I have one drafting table which my parents bought me back in 88 which still stands here with me at home and a new one I got just for my iMac providing enough elbow room to use my Wacom. It got the job done.

Apple is way out of touch on that and I think Jony needs to go on his own and get out of the company. It's the 'head in the sand' thinking that's hurting the company and they need to stop making BS excuses and see what's really out there and not using their Cupertino home as a 'demographic gospel'.

 

[sledgehammer89]

Apple is right, macOS isn't a touch system. But Apple is also wrong. When I take the display from my MacBook, all my macOS apps use iOS App design:

macOS Safari -> iOS Safari
macOS Mail -> iOS Mail
...
macOS Pixelmator -> iOS Pixelmator

Display back to my MacBook, all GUI layout switches back:

iOS Safari -> macOS Safari
iOS Mail -> macOS Mail
...
iOS Pixelmator -> macOS Pixelmator

I have the best experience for every situation on a single device. At school or in a training making notes with Pencil, at home writing long documents. No cloud or network connection needed.

 

[spiritlevel]

Question for you guys. When the massive new trackpads do get pencil/stylus support (and they clearly will given apple's patent activity in the last couple of years), are we still going going to insist on the screen being touch sensitive?

Is there something, aside from stylus support, in anyone's workflow that requires the ability to poke at your vertical screen?

I think you are missing something here. I don't want to draw on the touchpad. I want to draw on the screen. I want to see the line i draw appear under the tip of my pencil. I don't want the place I draw and the place the line appears to be separate.

Being able to draw on the touchpad is like an old Wacom tablet.

Being able to draw on the screen is like a Cintiq.

 

[Feenician]

Exactly. All the parents that kids will take their kids shopping and the young kids will try and type on the Mac Laptops and the kids will go try the Surface Pro 3/4 and will say "mommy/daddy". I want the one with a touch screen that has a removable keyboard.
You put a room full of kids in a place that has all types of computers and I guarantee the kids will choose
the the touch screen devices.

Dear Apple CEO - young kids today do not have allegiance to a technology company as you did when you grew up. The young kids want what works easiest.
For that piece of advice send me $1000.
Read the older peoples post here - old allegiance to a tech company. Young people - who cares who makes the technology.

I'm not sure what you're trying to demonstrate here. Kids also like to fingerpaint on walls. They're not noted for their taste, sound judgement or holding their opinions long term

 

[2457248]

But special tasks, being special, do not occur often.

When writing a document, how many times do you reach for the sound level or brightness level keys. Once per sentence, paragraph, or page?

You would still have cmd+, cmd+alt+, etc as physical keys, like you do now.

so you say, since these commands aren't invoked often, it's good to bury them and make them less accessible?
changing volume while watching a movie, 2015: rest your fingers on the keyboard on top right, press the correct buttons.
2016: look down, tap on the volume icon, tap again and slide your finger on the volume bar that appears.
that looks like a downgrade to me.

if the gains are minimal, since all the tasks i can perform were already there (with keyboard shortcuts), then overall it's a downgrade. also, if you're using windows, the loss of physical f-keys is another downside.

 

[NT1440]

I think you are missing something here. I don't want to draw on the touchpad. I want to draw on the screen. I want to see the line i draw appear under the tip of my pencil. I don't want the place I draw and the place the line appears to be separate.

Being able to draw on the touchpad is like an old Wacom tablet.

Being able to draw on the screen is like a Cintiq.

What you want is a tablet MacOS, yes?

When you people say you want to draw on the screen lets get one thing straight, you're asking for an entirely different device from Apple than a touchscreen Macbook. You're looking for a 2 in 1, or a convertible, neither of which Apple currently offers.

So again, just to clear up, you're NOT looking for a touchscreen MacBook (unless you want to draw vertically, which god help your writs at that point).

 

[mozumder]

I have a high end HP Spectre with touch screen as well as a MacBook Pro.

The touch screen is useless.

The worst part is that Windows has all these touch buttons that are oversized, and it ruins the mouse experience because of that.

 

[mollyc]

What you want is a tablet MacOS, yes?

When you people say you want to draw on the screen lets get one thing straight, you're asking for an entirely different device from Apple than a touchscreen Macbook. You're looking for a 2 in 1, or a convertible, neither of which Apple currently offers.

So again, just to clear up, you're NOT looking for a touchscreen MacBook (unless you want to draw vertically, which god help your writs at that point).

Personally I want a Mac version of the Surface Studio, which I think is what spiritlevel is saying.

I think Apple underestimates the number of people who either need to (at least partially) or vastly prefer working on a desktop. There are lots of us who prefer large screens, and who actually *need* large screens. I completely understand the need for portability in a laptop, but that is not where *all* of the work is done. Give us desktops, and ones that double with pen input and creatives would go bonkers.

 

[tubeexperience]

I think they copied the look of the iMac or at the very least took inspiration from it, even the video/promo for it felt very Apple like, at least to me anyway. Personally i'm not a fan of Windows, i use to use them before i brought my very first MacBook Pro in 2011. BUT i can't comment on the usage of this Windows Studio because i've not used it or had any sort of hands on, for all i know it could be a great machine. My opinion is that Touchscreen should be reserved for tablets and NOT computers, i would be saying the same thing if Apple were to produce a touchscreen Mac.

What do you mean by "looks"?

I am not seeing it.

Surface Studio:

iMac:

 

[pat500000]

I don't know, Ive. I find dial device from Studio to be more fascinating then your narrative videos.

 

[NT1440]

Personally I want a Mac version of the Surface Studio, which I think is what spiritlevel is saying.

I understand this, and I'm not trying to be rude. Instead I'm trying to clarify that people here would still have the exact same complaint with the new MBP's if they had a touchscreen, because that's not what they are explicitly asking for.

They're asking for an entirely different product from a notebook.

 

[a.gomez]

Then you've never used a Wacom. I do this every day on my iMac.

I absolutely agree with Jony Ive that a touchscreen laptop or desktop is not a great or particularly useful idea when you have a big, beautiful trackpad like you do on MacBooks and MacBook Pros. This is simply a question of ergonomics. Do I want to be using a touchscreen with my arm extended in front of me? Not really. Touch input is much more comfortable and useful when the positioning of the input device is more-or-less parallel with the floor.

Honestly I am very impressed by Ive's sentiment with respect to finding a balance between the mechanical and the adaptable and think it is a highly reasonable approach.

Yes, They are called 2 in 1s - and paired with an active Digital Stylus they are amazing to draw/photoshop with. Go do a lasso mask and a retouch in Photoshop with your big beautiful trackpad and one with an Active pen right on the screen and come back to me.

You do understand that we been buying Wacom Cintiq and tablets for over 10 years. Now you can get a 28 inch desktop or a 3lb laptop that has it all built in.

We are not using the touch screen to tap on Facebook post or check the weather.

 

[pally]

Apple is right. These are not the droids you are looking for. Why would people buy ipads if they had the functionality of an ipad in a fully operational computer? This is where Apple departs the path of wisdom; They forgo better products and innovation for the sake of shareholders. They are not Willy Wonka. I used to get Willy Wonka. Now all I get is Snidely Whiplash.

 

[rjohnstone]

Having used a touchscreen laptop for the past two years, Apple is missing the point.
I can see it being a pain on a traditional laptop, but on a convertible (Yoga Pro) style laptop, it's excellent.
Windows 10 automatically switches from desktop mode to tablet mode when you fold the screen back, which I think is brilliant.

 

[needfx]

Say that to my mom who's so used to iPad she keeps touching the MacBook Pro screen when dad shows her a picture and she tries to pinch to zoom and swipe to check more pictures.

#samegrandmaissuehere

 

[johnimperio]

I agree, the Touch Bar gives all the contextually appropriate benefits of multitouch without having to place your hands in an un-ergonomic angle, and mark up the screen. It seems to make a lot of sense to me, however in addition to the touch bar, including a full multitouch monitor would be nice for those who insist on poking at the screen. And seriously, now that we have a giant trackpad why no support for the Pencil??

Pencil support? It will come! It seems like Apple is just maximizing profits.. if they really cared about content makers (which is a good percentage of their users) they could've easily added it as a new feature..

 

[NT1440]

I don't know, Ive. I find dial device from Studio to be more fascinating then your narrative videos.

Then buy the Griffin puck that was clearly the inspiration for MS's dial.

It's a nice idea for MS, but in the same way the new Touch Bar is, totally reliant on Devs to actually implement it. I forsee the Touch Bar (being standard on all the new MBP's, minus the "budget version" for now) actually getting much more support from Devs than the Studio just because the install base for the Studio will be a fragment of the MBP's install base in a few years from now.

 

[tkatz]

I have a high end HP Spectre with touch screen as well as a MacBook Pro.

The touch screen is useless.

The worst part is that Windows has all these touch buttons that are oversized, and it ruins the mouse experience because of that.

Does the Spectre keyboard fold back, or is it just a regular laptop with a touch screen? On my surface pro 3, when I fold back the keyboard (or remove it) it switches to tablet mode which has larger sized buttons for touch. With the keyboard attached and positioned normally, Windows switches off tablet mode and everything switches to normal size. That was the big "wow" moment for me. Some of the adobe apps support that as well. When you run Photoshop with the keyboard set normally it behaves like normal Photoshop. When you switch to tablet mode it switches to a "touch ui" which optimizes itself for touch. All of this happens automatically (though you can do it manually as well).

 

[citysnaps]

so you say, since these commands aren't invoked often, it's good to bury them and make them less accessible?
changing volume while watching a movie, 2015: rest your fingers on the keyboard on top right, press the correct buttons.
2016: look down, tap on the volume icon, tap again and slide your finger on the volume bar that appears.
that looks like a downgrade to me.

if the gains are minimal, since all the tasks i can perform were already there (with keyboard shortcuts), then overall it's a downgrade. also, if you're using windows, the loss of physical f-keys is another downside.

They're not buried. They're on the touch bar. You might have to look down to change the volume.

I'd much rather have a dynamic set of keys, that are tailored to applications, and with the ability to do special operations, such as scrubbing video in FCPX.

 

[niun]

Then buy the Griffin puck that was clearly the inspiration for MS's dial.

It's a nice idea for MS, but in the same way the new Touch Bar is, totally reliant on Devs to actually implement it. I forsee the Touch Bar (being standard on all the new MBP's, minus the "budget version" for now) actually getting much more support from Devs than the Studio just because the install base for the Studio will be a fragment of the MBP's install base in a few years from now.

Maybe then it would have been better to have released it on the macbook a year ago. Start with the emoji functionality and fun stuff. Get it out there at more of a budget price..
Then PRO it up for the MacBook Pro's.

This is what peeve's me off about Apple these days. They are really doing things in the wrong order.

 

[Gasu E.]

Laptops with touchscreens are extremely useful. Ask any Surface Book or any other touchscreen laptop owner. None of them would ever go back to a laptop without touchscreen. And a touchscreen is a hell of a lot more useful than a Touch Bar.

Surface Book has a detachable screen though. Sure, for a laptop that is dual mode, touchscreen is a necessity.