Apple Says Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch'

[ChrisMoBro]

You're asking for a different form factor, whether you admit it or not. Sticking a touchscreen on a clamshell notebook is a gimmick, nothing more.

I don't dispute a touchscreen would be useful in your profession, but I can tell you that you won't be drawing for long on a clamshell Macbook Pro with a touchscreen.

It certainly wouldn't be a gimmick, it would speed up my workflow massively. Right now I'm using a insanely powerful PC for work and my MacBook Pro is sat next to me waiting to be used. If I want to draw on the screen I get my Cintiq out as I don't like storyboarding or designing characters on an Intuos Pro. That saves me a hell of a lot of time and I can use all the same apps I use on my PC, not crappy mobile versions. The ability to pick it up and draw instantly on it would be a game changer. That's why my next computer will be a Surfacebook.

 

[NT1440]

Correct. What I want is essentially an iMac Studio and a Surface MacBook Pro

Luckily, Apple has clearly been developing such a thing for several years now. Whether it gets released is another story, but given their patent activity in that field, I think it's a matter of when.

 

[tkatz]

Mine is the one that folds back for tablet mode, but I never notice any change to button sizes when folded back. Is it a separate setting?

The Tablet mode option is available in the Action Center and there's an option somewhere in settings that tells it to switch automatically (not sure where the setting is as it asked me if i wanted to have it auto the first time i folded the keyboard back). It doesn't necessarily change button sizes everywhere, thats application specific (ie if the app supports a touch ui). What it does for example in file explorer is add more space between items so that things are easier to touch. In tablet mode it also adds checkboxes for easier multi-select. Turn tablet mode off and everything tightens up, checkboxes go away and the option ribbon appears.

It's not perfect, but it shows that the system can adapt when being used as a tablet vs a laptop. Microsoft is showing it can be done, and Apple usually takes those ideas and perfects them (ie, innovates on them). If any company had a chance at making the perfect 2-in-1 I would expect Apple to be that company. It's a shame they don't want to (unless they are taking their usual time and in a few years introduces something saying they were just waiting to do it right).

 

[NT1440]

It certainly wouldn't be a gimmick, it would speed up my workflow massively. Right now I'm using a insanely powerful PC for work and my MacBook Pro is sat next to me waiting to be used. If I want to draw on the screen I get my Cintiq out as I don't like storyboarding or designing characters on an Intuos Pro. That saves me a hell of a lot of time and I can use all the same apps I use on my PC, not crappy mobile versions. The ability to pick it up and draw instantly on it would be a game changer. That's why my next computer will be a Surfacebook.

Please reread my post carefully. Please.

You're agreeing with what I posted. UNLESS APPLE RELEASES A TABLET/PC HYBRID YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET MUCH UTILITY OUT OF DRAWING ON A VERTICAL LAPTOP DISPLAY.

 

[mollyc]

There's a reason why Wacom tablets have been replaced by Cintiqs.

Well, yes, but my $99 Bamboo Fun is still kicking after 8 years or so and a far cry less expensive than a Cintiq! Especially since I use an iMac.

But I would totally buy an Apple version of the Studio if they would make one.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

I do, actually.

To me - what would make a concept like this work - is a keyboard in which each key on the keyboard is an OLED.

When you are in word processing, normal keyboard.

When you are in Pro-Tools, Photoshop, Premiere, Final Cut, etc.. the entire keyboard switches to hotkeys, keyboard shortcuts, etc. Not a strip at the top.

Like This:

Obviously executed better- but you get the idea.

Kinda reminds me of this actually
http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/
This keyboard does exactly that (tiny OLED in each key) and it costs 1500 bucks.

It's definitely doable but it costs a fortune and it requires way more space than a laptop has to spare for its keyboard mechanisms I'm afraid (at least by Apple's standards).

To be honest I personally like the touch bar a bit more because while you don't get as many keys or tactile feedback apps can do more than just custom key. The scrubber controls are a good example of this kind of advantage.

 

[NT1440]

Kinda reminds me of this actually
http://www.artlebedev.com/optimus/popularis/
This keyboard does exactly that (tiny OLED in each key) and it costs 1500 bucks.

It's definitely doable but it costs a fortune and it requires way more space than a laptop has to spare for its keyboard mechanisms I'm afraid (at least by Apple's standards).

To be honest I personally like the touch bar a bit more because while you don't get as many keys or tactile feedback apps can do more than just custom key. The scrubber controls are a good example of this kind of advantage.

You're forgetting that the Optimus originated years and years ago (I think I first read about it's precursor in 08).

OLED keyboards are coming from Apple, it's just a matter of when.

 

[slimothy]

I don't really like full touch-screen laptops either but... idk.

 

[FreshBoy]

It doesn't matter if they spent a million hours designing the touchbar, if its not a good component or doesn't increase a person's efficiency, its not good. Personally, it seems very gimmicky and won't be something that will last

Have you used it? I think it looks class and can't wait to try it and if its gimmicky than fair enough but I'll wait till I can use it first before I decide if Apple should keep it or not. It wont stop the MacBook Pro from being a good solid laptop for my daily usage either way.

 

[timilner]

New Macbook Pros...Larger multi-touch trackpad, Contextual Touch Bar, lower profile/less travel on keyboard keys and "Touchscreen Macs 'Not a Particularly Useful or Appropriate Application of Multi-Touch"...I can see where Apple is going with this. It's just taking time. 5 years from now: Macbooks will have Clamshell design, Retina screen, horizontal part of the notebook will be one big, multi-touch, contextual trackpad/keyboard (that doubles as a graphics tab for Apple pencil) and has taptic feedback for every keystroke/action, making it 'feel' like a true typing experience. Too much too soon would scare customers away. I think we're in the middle of a very frustrating transitional stage with Apple. Remember, most folk on here adopt early and have an interest/emotion in Apple and their products.

 

[spiritlevel]

It sounds like your beef is less with Apple's laptop design decisions and more with how iOS on an iPad is crippled, walled-garden garbage. Can we all agree that if iPad ran a decent OS (basically something as powerful as MacOS but built for an iPad-like interface) it would be the solution to most people's issues here?

To a point. We then come to the size issue. If iOS ran say full Photoshop that would be a step in the right direction but it would still only be a max 12.9" drawing surface compared to the MS Studio's 28".

The answer is therefore not just beefing up iOS, but also bringing multi-touch capability and Apple Pencil support to OS X.
Microsoft's single OS approach for all devices is starting to look like a winner.

 

[Haiku_Oezu]

You're forgetting that the Optimus originated years and years ago (I think I first read about it's precursor in 08).

OLED keyboards are coming from Apple, it's just a matter of when.

No I know it's been around for a while! I remember seeing the first concept pictures around the early 2000's (the promo picture showed a key depicting the eMule icon lol, that's how old it was)

I just think the costs of putting tiny OLED's and and all the connections necessary to make the pictures show up in each key is a little too high for them to become a mass market product. I think we'll be typing on keyboards that are essentially one big multitouch screen showing a software keyboard and somehow giving tactile feedback before we get to the point where making each key a screen is economically viable.

But hey, I'd love to be wrong! Those keyboards look sweet.

 

[porkrind]

Laptops with touchscreens are extremely useful. Ask any Surface Book or any other touchscreen laptop owner. None of them would ever go back to a laptop without touchscreen. And a touchscreen is a hell of a lot more useful than a Touch Bar.

My main work machine is a touchscreen equipped Dell. After the first hour that I had it, the novelty wore off and I have never touched the screen again. The angle of the screen vs the keyboard is uncomfortable, most things on the screen are too tiny to touch or obscured by my hands, and my god! the fingerprints are terrible.

 

[fourthtunz]

I remember an interview not long ago (I think it was 60 Minutes) where Time Cook said that he used his iPad for everything. Like it was going to replace the conventional PC. At least now we know not everyone at Apple thinks this way (Thank God). Tablets are not PCs.

Right and that just shows how out of touch Cook is!
For many people a tablet will replace a Mac but for those of us who need a mac
why can't the biggest company in the world, that also happens to make the Mac,
why can't it make a laptop that kicks (at least at the high end) every other laptops ass?
Instead it has middling milquetoast Mac!

 

[mdriftmeyer]

You're forgetting that the Optimus originated years and years ago (I think I first read about it's precursor in 08).

OLED keyboards are coming from Apple, it's just a matter of when.

I want the keys to load uniquely for each application [showing the hot key layouts for modeling, photoshop, FCP X, etc] both on the keys and screen overlay with either a simple combination tap on the touchpad that activates the state or other combination which can be toggled on/off by the user.

The keys go from default layout to custom layout [each key having an embedded haptic touch feedback/partial mechanical force displacement capacity] seeing as LEDs are beyond dirt cheap and unlike that gawd awful Optimus design you wouldn't even know it has the capabilities without engaging the state activation. The lettering would be embedded into the keys like they are via an LED display, through OLED crystals.

Extend this capabilities to work with 3D mice and multibutton mice outside of Magic mouse, also to the iPad Pro as a companion tablet depending on the application. What I don't want is a strip bar grabbing all of my attention.

If I have the custom keyboard activated I want to hit command to show a very subtle overlay on-screen, on-demand to train my memory to know when activated what key combinations give me extended capabilties w/o digging through menus.

 

[spiritlevel]

Luckily, Apple has clearly been developing such a thing for several years now. Whether it gets released is another story, but given their patent activity in that field, I think it's a matter of when.

I hope you're right. Not sure how they could launch such a thing now without having to eat a large slice of humble pie whilst being harangued for copying Microsoft.

 

[amegicfox]

this is not an interview, it's a press release

the media will never ask him real questions and will never argue from the customer side

 

[Hyloba]

I honestly can't understand why someone would prefer to have a touch screen on their laptop. I used to be a big supporter of touch screen laptops. Then I got one, after a while I never wanted to use it, but I had to because track pad sucked even more.

So I got the surface pro 4, my dream device I thought. In short: bad keyboard, bad trackpad, bad stylus, touch was only useful in tablet mode but tablet mode was a PITA.

I never want to have a touch screen in a laptop ever again. No touch screen should compromise my device.

 

[kdarling]

I find the idea of a touchscreen on a laptop, not particularly useful...to be polite. I am sure there are people who like it. I am not one of them. I don't want to have fingerprints, dirt, etc on the screen. I want it to be as clear as possible without having to clean it 10 times a day. Also, fingers are just too fat to replace a mouse cursor and they block the view.

I agree with you that using only the touchscreen would be a pain on a laptop with its screen in its normal position. I even used to warn casual users away from touchscreen laptops for that reason.

Then my daughter's husband gave her a touchscreen Windows laptop a couple of years ago. After she had it for a while, I was surprised to see how she would often and naturally reach up to the screen in place of using the touchpad... for large selections, moving things, scrolling sometimes, etc... where it was quicker and easier.

So she did not use the touch screen for everything, which is the problem you and I were thinking of. Only when it was handier to use, and in situations where it excels for input.

 

[amegicfox]

if Jony and Tim say something, then it's true

they are in denial !!!!!


they are so arrogant. why don't they have a townhall with designers, developers, architects, sound professional that use macs

It would be wonderful to see them torn apart in a question and answer debate

freaking fouls running apple

 

[aaronhead14]

As far as using the UI goes, I agree with Apple. BUT, how is would multitouch be a bad thing for painting in Photoshop etc?! Of COURSE multitouch would be helpful in those scenarios.

 

[n2arkitektur]

The best way to annoy our users is to make them use dongles for everything.

The iDevice and Mac teams seem to be in sync on that point at least.

 

[tampageek]

Tim Cook's Apple is about limits & falling sales coincide with how aggressive they're getting. If you look at the graphs they show Mac sales decline getting worse in 2015. What else happened in 2015? El Capitan. The locking down and dumbing down of the OS with SIP/rootless caused a lot of things to break. SIP/rootless also made it harder for power users to 'fix.' Add that to outdated hardware and the trend continues.

In Sierra, we have an MS Windoze10-type OS that takes even more control out of the hands of the person who owns the machine. Auto storage 'optimizing' is on by DEFAULT so your files may be gone before you can stop it. El Cap updates are now bundled. The new MBP's power on by themselves, making one wonder if the thing is ever really disconnected from the cloud. Now Apple has taken the legacy ports off Mac's so it's even harder to store private data on off-line devices. Why does that combo sound like an indirect backdoor disguised as 'great new features' ?

It's no wonder why Apple has disabled comments in the App store for Sierra. Fewer would download their MS-like spyware if Apple didn't censor the reviews.

 

[Mathias Denichi]

They are liars. Touchscreen is the future, and even Apple knows that. They will change their mind just as they did with the larger screen iPhones; when it makes them more money.

It will either be a touchscreen MacBook Pro, or a full featured version of iOS on the iPad pro as their main flagship computer.

 

[niun]

Apart from all the Ive waffle, this:

'When we were exploring multitouch many, many years ago, we were trying to understand the appropriate application and opportunities for [it]. We just didn’t feel that [the Mac] was the right place for that…. It wasn’t particularly useful or an appropriate application of multitouch.'

Is all past tense.

Is Ive seeing the light?