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Maybe it would make more sense to design keyboards that people actually want to use? Or just go back to any keyboard model they've used in the last 15 years. They were all light years ahead of the current junk. E-ink won't make anyone hate them any less.
 
.....The touch bar seems like it's a bit of a gimmick. I can't see it increasing workflows.
Once its limitless functionality starts showing up in software and Apps, I believe it could be very useful, and a timesaver in access and shortcuts especially for pro users. Software developers will no doubt capitalize on its multitude of possibilities, after which we'll get used to it so quickly that we'll wonder how we got by without it before.
 
They are liars. Touchscreen is the future, and even Apple knows that. They will change their mind just as they did with the larger screen iPhones; when it makes them more money.

It will either be a touchscreen MacBook Pro, or a full featured version of iOS on the iPad pro as their main flagship computer.

Any device with iOS is a glorified calculator, not a computer. But I fear you're right, sooner or later in their courage they will probably decide iPad Pro is Pro enough for everyone and anything more is just overkill.
 
Once its limitless functionality starts showing up in software and Apps, I believe it could be very useful, and a timesaver in access and shortcuts especially for pro users. Software developers will no doubt capitalize on its multitude of possibilities, after which we'll get used to it so quickly that we'll wonder how we got by without it before.

Lol, that's exactly the way I feel about touch screen and having a hybrid device.
 
My guess is apple isn't doing touchscreen because:
a) it'll increase the price of already expense products

b) getting their version of retina to work with touch might be a big problem and

c) it'll make the z-height on their notebooks bigger (you need a counterweight down by the touchpad so people don't knock the computer over when using the touch panel), and apple is already compressing these notebooks as far as (currently) humanly possible.

Also, given Apple's track record of innovating by removing features ppl actually use, if we did get touch panels they'd be in black and white or something.

That said, the magic finger bar is one those where you go "meh, sure, why not?" but I don't think it's revolutionizing computing. It's certainly no substitute for touch panels.

A. The touch bar already increased the cost of already expensive products to such an expense; I don't think it would have made much difference if they had gone full touchscreen instead. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference for the myriad PC manufacturers that have them, now.

B. I don't follow. The iPad is retina. How is getting touch to work with retina a problem? It's just a screen resolution. The Razers have 4K touchscreens.

C. True, and they seem to be obsessed with thinness, which I appreciate. However, I think they have gone far enough and could sacrifice thinness for functionality. The MBP didn't need to be thinner than MBA. There's no more virtue in it.

Yes. It's curious to see how Apple is so misguided as to confuse removal of useful features with innovation (I'll refrain from using their mad hat frame of 'courage'). They would more likely remove touch panels in 10 years and make you use a dongle if you wanted to connect to your brain-machine interface via any other method than wireless, which is not fully baked at that time.

I agree regarding touch bar. Why not, but why not go full touch screen? It's unlikely that touch bar will be adopted industry-wide, even if developers support it on MacOS, which I think is also unlikely. This isn't like the invention of the iPhone or the iPad; it's not revolutionary.
 
Any device with iOS is a glorified calculator, not a computer. But I fear you're right, sooner or later in their courage they will probably decide iPad Pro is Pro enough for everyone and anything more is just overkill.

Weird. That means I managed to both record, edit and upload a 4K video on a calculator today. Pretty impressive, huh?
 
Ive: "what we won't do is just do something different that's no better".

No, but what you will do is "different but worse", which you have proven over and over and over again. You've put your personal sense of extreme-minimalist "aesthetics" (such as they are... Anyone else here get the idea that Ives is the kind of feeble-minded self-important twit that pays a million $ for a piece of white unpainted canvas in a frame and thinks it is "art"?) above usability in myriad ways over and over. You are moronic and egotistical enough to pretend that skeuomorphism isn't valuable because, let's face it, it doesn't fit your sense of aesthetics. (Ask anyone who isn't a "computer person" how important they think it is that their computer interface relate to things in the real-world...)

That's right Ive; I'm calling you a self-agrandizing idiot with questionable aesthetics. Think I'm wrong? I invite you to come and visit a school I support and watch staff and students try to use Macs, iPads, and iPhones running operating systems with UI designs largely based on your work. Watch their frustrating daily struggle just to find basic features they used to be able to use without issue (and many of which turn out to simply be gone). Watch them have to ask me over and over again to show them things they will *never remember* because they no-longer make any real-world sense.

Ive, you are either an deluded fool who should never touch UI design again, or you know damn well it's crap but you just don't care. Either way, the way to save Apple is for you to go. And probably Cook too.
 
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Isn't that what the larger trackpad is for? You can do things like pinch to zoom and other multitouch gestures that are also done on touchscreens. To be honest I prefer doing all that stuff on my trackpad than on my screen.

I agree, but there are times when it would useful. It would just improve workflow, more so than touch bar.
 
I've grown sick and tired of the incessant complaining and whining here. Apple's design team has spent thousands of hours designing and testing the Touch Bar. I think they have a little more insight on this than every single person here that has never used it or even seen it.

Get a grip folks. Put on your big boy pants and stop whining. Let's make MacRumor's discussion forums a great place again instead of what it has become.

Oh yes! I think the Touch Bar is the coolest thing I have ever seen. Wow! It only took four years, and it will change the face of computing. It is one of the first ever glass surfaces you can touch and slide your finger along to do things. How clever! Who would have thought of that? It is virtually a miracle! All of Apple's innovative might is shown in the idea of part of a keyboard that adapts to the software you are using. Who would ever have thought of that before? I certainly hadn't! And it is in such a wonderfully accessible part of the keyboard too - it will be so easy to use. I have seen a lot of exciting things in the world of computing, but this strip of glass that we can touch is waaaaay cool. Whoooppppeeeee! I am SO SO happy. As you say, thousands of hours have been spent designing and testing this, so it must be good, surely, because Apple can't do anything badly. It simply must be good because of that alone! I am a person of no insight and have no right to pass an opinion because the great Apple folks have come up with this magic, so who am I to dare pass comment. My free speech is worth nothing if I write against anything the good folks at Apple have come up with. Wonderful, wonderful Apple and praise be to the almighty, visionary Tim Cook and his team of marketers and bean counters. I dream of the moment I can buy this laptop with a touch bar, but which in other ways is more limited than so many other computers on the market, yet far more expensive. Whooopppppe again! I am so happy to be alive. God bless Apple and their glorious innovation and vision. Down with Samsung and all the rest, for they could not start to make anything as advanced and cool as the latest Mac Pro. Hip hip hooray for Apple. All they do is inspired and wonderful.

Really? Is that what you want? MacRumours would be a great place again (whatever that means) because everyone says how wonderful everything is? If I think something is great, I will say so. And if I think something sucks, then I will say so. In the past, I thought Apple was pretty damned good. Now I think they are sorely losing their way, and their latest MacBook Pros look to be a fine example of that. In my opinion, Cook and co are looking to get out of the serious computer market as soon as they can find a way to do so and save some face. If you think the forum is becoming increasingly negative, perhaps that says something about what Apple is becoming. Cause and effect?

I love the fact that forums are alive with wildly opposing views. What I cannot abide are people who think that negative opinions expressed are some how trolling / worthless / wearing small boy pants / whining etc. What I suspect you need to do is start an Apple Fan Boys' Club or something, then you can impose your own rules that anyone who moans about anything Apple make or do is banned from your club. The golden rules of democracies and free economies are question, challenge and criticise. The sort of place that does not tolerate criticism is North Korea, and they are of course a powerhouse of inspirational technology.
 
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Ergonomics is not a problem. Just put it like this (left):

Surface-Book-image-4.png

Oh I totally agree with you that what Microsoft is doing right now is incredibly exciting. If industry professionals prefer using Microsoft's products I would encourage they do so.

Apple is simply not going to optimize macOS for touch input though. Never going to happen. That's what they think iOS is for.

Apple's solution to the Surface Pro thing is to sell you an iPad Pro with a bluetooth keyboard case. I'm not saying that's necessarily the right direction, but that's how Apple's handling it.
 
Some of y'all are wild. I am so happy apple doesn't have touch screen macs. macOS is simply not built for touch, it's built for point and click. Windows has turned into a cluster trying to combine elements of a touch OS without disturbing its usual GUI.
 
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I hope you're right. Not sure how they could launch such a thing now without having to eat a large slice of humble pie whilst being harangued for copying Microsoft.
IF it's introduced in January, it's only trolls and ******* tech "reporters" than can't figure out how a manufacturing pipeline works.
 
There are basically two arguments I'm seeing in this thread:

1. The Touch Bar sucks
2. The new MacBook Pro is nowhere near as impressive as Microsoft's offerings.

While I can get behind the second argument to an extent, I can't get behind the first. I see almost 0 disadvantage to replacing function keys with an adaptable touch screen.
 
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I cannot believe what's I'm hearing .....wait I actually can. Mac fans have been in the defense of apple since the beginning of its inception. The problem is that apple in 2016 is so arrogant and they have the power to do whatever they want regardless of what the market demands. If you take a sample of the current market it's losing money fast. No one needs a new computer but it's the allure of a brand new apple product that they are selling.

Those that are complaining about how stupid the idea is with a touchscreen laptop you forget about the real fact that the ipad pro's with a smart keyboard cover makes it a laptop-like device. You seem to be at home with this sort of set up. The biggest problem is that iOS is a smartphone OS and you can simulate alot of PC workflows but ultimately it's a hack effort and require apps to get things done. And these apps are also crippled by iOS api restrictions.

Apple didn't like smartphone displays to be larger than 4". They now think larger than 4" is PERFECT. Apple is a hypocritical company because they are so concerned about brand image they will not make what you want. A touchscreen laptop is perfect and you don't have to touch the screen to use it. But in apple's eyes because microsoft has their surface pro and book lineup they don't want everyone to think they are following...they want to lead but their leadership keeps pushing out garbage like a touchbar when you know without a doubt the touchbar solves no issues instead introduces more BS interface "enhancements" - when you can bet touchscreen solves it all.

You will see a touchscreen mbp - either in the form of a tablet (iPad Pro 2) or whenever they will make big bucks from it. They are always testing out products and the suckers are the one who buys up these prototypes. Just wait and see there WILL BE A TOUCHSCREEN MBP in the form of a tablet.

I searched the threads before and years ago people asked for touchID on the MBP but the same blind pillow biting apple loyalists are saying how stupid the idea of a touchID on a laptop was. Now they are saying how great it is. Too much money and too little brain matter.
 
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There are basically two arguments I'm seeing in this thread:

1. The Touch Bar sucks
2. The new MacBook Pro is nowhere near as impressive as Microsoft's offerings.

While I can get behind the second argument to an extent, I can't get behind the first. I see almost 0 disadvantage to replacing function keys with an adaptable touch screen.

I've been playing around all day on the ol' macbook..

Still can't help feel it'd have been better where the space bar currently is - and the same size, moving the entire keyboard up a bit.
USE THE THUMB!
 
They are liars. Touchscreen is the future, and even Apple knows that. They will change their mind just as they did with the larger screen iPhones; when it makes them more money.

It will either be a touchscreen MacBook Pro, or a full featured version of iOS on the iPad pro as their main flagship computer.

There is no way, zero, that a touch screen MacBook Pro is going to happen - at least not with the vertical screen being touch enabled. The keyboard is likely going to become a screen, where it can be used naturally and efficiently vs the vertical screen that is physically difficult and inefficient to use.
 
why don't they have a townhall with designers, developers, architects, sound professional that use macs

It would be wonderful to see them torn apart in a question and answer debate

You want them to DEBATE and/or JUSTIFY their product choices?

They're a company. If you don't like their product don't buy it.

Side note: touchscreen laptops are silly. That layout is not designed for touch, it's designed for a mouse cursor.

If you want a touchscreen from Apple, get an iPad.
 
There are basically two arguments I'm seeing in this thread:

1. The Touch Bar sucks
2. The new MacBook Pro is nowhere near as impressive as Microsoft's offerings.

While I can get behind the second argument to an extent, I can't get behind the first. I see almost 0 disadvantage to replacing function keys with an adaptable touch screen.

Replacing a set of physical keys that have been there for decades and various software applications use, and can be used via muscle memory has no disadvantages?

Ok. If you say so. I'll disagree with you, especially when I'm trying to step through my code without having to look down at the keyboard and make sure i'm still on the right buttons.

If the adaptable touch screen was able to adapt in a 3d way and add dynamic depth, then that would be pretty amazing and useful. It would also be nice if the screen extended all the way to the left so the escape button wasn't offset a bit to the right from where it should be.
 
I really don't care for touchscreen laptops at all and I think they are significantly more niche than people think. In my own experience, people who love touchscreen laptops fall into two categories:

1. A person that would be better suited by a tablet in the first place. (i.e. Not really doing any real work.)

2. Someone who actually makes use of it properly.

Admittedly, group 2 is pretty small. Even the guys I know rocking Surfaces use it as a laptop/desktop like 90% of the time. Mind you, I have an admittedly small sample size, but... I haven't read or seen anything really compelling about a touchscreen laptop. People scream about this feature like it's a no-brainer but I gotta say, I respectfully disagree. The Surface Studio has been quite the talk around here and I THINK it's a neat product for a niche market. I imagine if you're an Apple user and you fit that market, it's appealing to you. How big is that market though?

Apple isn't the most valuable company on the planet because it has a design team listening to trolls on internet forums. It just isn't.

I think huge touchpad + touch bar is an interesting way to tackle the issue. I don't need to even mess with the larger touchpad to know that's a good idea. (I actually saw complaints about the larger trackpad. Really?) The touch bar? No idea. I haven't used it yet. I'm curious to see it in action.

Phone, tablets, and laptops are not the same devices. How many of you that say Apple should go that direction actually use a touchscreen laptop? I'm relatively curious. To me this just sounds like people wanting to cram a feature in because... hey, feature. How you interact with your phone is different than a laptop.

Apply the reverse logic: "Laptops have a physical keyboard, why shouldn't my phone?" And the answer is pretty obvious.

We'll see what happens over time, but I really haven't seen a better argument than: "OTHER PRODUCTS HAVE IT!"
 
There are basically two arguments I'm seeing in this thread:

1. The Touch Bar sucks
2. The new MacBook Pro is nowhere near as impressive as Microsoft's offerings.

While I can get behind the second argument to an extent, I can't get behind the first. I see almost 0 disadvantage to replacing function keys with an adaptable touch screen.

$300 bucks for a gimmick to control volumen and screen light.

FaceTime call comes in, you can see from who in the upper right.

Flick with finger and click vs "look down on bar to locate accept button, move hand from track pad and click it".
 
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