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The Pro market is dwindling anyway.

Really? You should tell that to Sony and Panasonic. Maybe they'll close down their pro divisions.

Apple's choice to focus on the general consumer market doesn't mean the "Pro market is dwindling" by any means. Just because Apple doesn't make a $100,000 dollar video camera, doesn't mean there isn't a demand for such a thing.
 
true. But one could argue that going from os 9 to os x is what apple is doing with fcp 7 to fcp x.

They took a huge revolutionary leap (os 9 to os x) and added features as they want along (look what was missing in mac os 10.0 compared to os 9...a lot of key features were gone but apple brought them back). I believe this is what is being done to final cut.

100%
 
Well, it seems we have reached a point in the FCPX conversation where we can barely even pretend to be polite. Some people dig the new direction and some people hate it but condescension is probably not the most persuasive route to take in expressing those reactions.
 
At work I still have to fire up DOS apps to work on some of the equipment there. The fact that I have to use these old apps doesn't mean that newer approaches with software running native on Windows or Mac OS are bad though.

It is only a mess if you want to believe it is.
It was a mess because it was a mess. The first releases of OS X were beta-like messes, nevertheless, in the end it turned out to be an amazing OS. People are complaining how many issues they had with Lion after SL, well these don't even compare how many issues we had back then over OS 9. But it was the correct move to do. Apple couldn't have waited several more years until they got everything right with OS X and it was time to force developers to start porting.

More importantly OS/X has never been static, it has improved steadily as has many of Apples other apps. If their is one thing I object to is the people that see a heavily refactored app like FCP X and think that the suite is and for ever will be static, unchanging and never suitable for their needs.

Yeah but that's just stupid of course. FCP X will plug all its holes in time and become one of the first of next gen NLE's if Apple keeps working at it, which it seems like they will.

Finally people have to realize that software is never really finished. As such you have to ship sometime. As a user though it is up to you to determine when to buy.

The biggest issue with FCP X wasn't FCP X itself, but the fact that Apple discontinued FCP 7 immediately, which they did not do with OS 9 to OS X transition. They offered classic layer for years and macs shipping as late as 2004 still booted OS 9 if the user preferred.
 
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I'm mid-stream on two long term projects with media all over the place- a doc and a feature, as well as my corporate and music paying gigs... so it's not necessarily about being successful enough to have the "funds"- its about switching editing platforms and workflow mid stream...

if I'd hired you for these projects, and I found out you were spending your time whining on a message board about not having the right equipment, I'd be pretty bummed. bro.

editors. they really need to get out more.
 
I spoke with my Avid rep last month, and the end of the discussion I asked him how the FCPX debacle has impacted them.

I saw a wonderful smile, and he said "It was the best present a competitor could have handed them without going bust". Without giving anything away, they are seeing some major post houses in LA, NY and London buying more copies of Media Composer and IO hardware, way more than expected, as well as a ton of copies on the "competitive upgrade deal" they had.

They be very happy!

Which is to be expected, but doesn't mean Apple dropped the ball on FCP X. They surely knew that they'd lose some high end business when they made this move. Let's see how it looks like in couple of years. Remember, before FCP 1.0, there were no FCP users at all. :)
 
Big Apple

The Ministry of Truth strikes again. Haven't heard anything from FC Pro users other than they wanted it to be tighter and faster--64-bit version of what they had was all they were looking for, right? Sometimes it makes sense to listen to your customers rather than eschew their opinions because "they don't really know what they want". I believe the consensus is pretty clear. I can understand why an Avid sales rep would be smiling--their bonus this year will be sweet.
 
At work I still have to fire up DOS apps to work on some of the equipment there.

If their is one thing I object to is the people that see a heavily refactored app like FCP X and think that the suite is and for ever will be static, unchanging and never suitable for their needs.
Almost 100% of software users whether consumer or business are in a "production environment". Said another way they need it to "just work".

Now I understand a new paradigm in software needs to get out there in the wild to get sufficient feedback to fix the meaningful problems. OSX was a BF at 1.0 and 2.0 and frankly I was not on board till 10.4.x and run 10.4.11 every day even now.

I comprehend your need for DOS and many with a need for OS 8.6 and OS 9.2. The needs are real.

This FCP issue arose because they threw out a working "production environment" title that did "just work" in favor of a clunky, buggy, feature crippled "future starchild" FCPX. Bunk!

Keep the baby and work on the bathwater till it is comfortable.

We can't live with the void filled with drama and pain.

Rocketman
 
The problem with your "analysis" LTD is that you are ignoring the fact that as a professional and even as a consumer - it's about the features and benefits of the software. So while FCPX might be good for many people - it lost a lot of functionality that even basic editors want/need and have been accustomed to being able to do via previous tools.

I think people can get past a UI change and a different way of doing things. What professionals (and even consumers) don't care for is when the NEW version of software whether it's word processing, video editing, or whatever removes functions and features that have been germane to the software in previous versions.



The "Pro" market we remember fondly is not the same today. Today, it can't save anyone, and relying on it exclusively isn't a recipe for growth - at least not the kind that Apple wants. The money is in serving the consumer sector - all that insatiable desire for new and interesting devices, and the sort of software that empowers people and let's them do things that weren't even on the radar a few years ago.

The business you're in today can be reinvented tomorrow. Everyone must reinvent themselves. Tech is changing. Even specialized, niche markets. There is no niche market that is today immune from the sea-changes that take place in the wider consumer markets. It all filters and branches outward to niche segments.

And those niche segments are also changing, and are being integrated with the wider consumer segments. The average person a few years ago would be hard-pressed to do any advanced level of photo-editing, especially without purchasing ridiculously expensive software and having to put up with serious learning curves.

Now, in the span of only a few years, look at the kind of power that has been put into Joe Average's hands. It's incredible. You can even do, with some iOS apps (of all things!), things that were a few years ago only possible with much more complex and expensive software.

The line between "Pro" and "Consumer" has been blurred to an unprecedented degree. Hence, today we have what is known as the "Prosumer." And these Prosumers are growing in number and strength every day. One of the companies serving them is Apple.

The Pro market is dwindling. The Prosumer market is expanding rapidly. The skills that at one point were hard-earned and rare (Pro skills) are being steadily, slowly but surely, acquired by even average users with a little time and curiosity. As tech becomes much more accessible to Joe Average, those skills that were once prized in the industry will eventually become commonplace. What took a lot of skill yesterday can be easily accomplished and on a larger scale today, due to increased exposure and access that Joe Average, and for that matter you and I, are enjoying. It all filters down due to increased access.

The "Pro" market is not the same market that Apple allegedly turned their back on years ago. It has changed. And it is no longer a market that can sustain anyone exclusively. At all. Especially with the Rise of the Prosumer. The traditional "Pro" market is slowly dying, but also changing. It is becoming integrated with the consumer market, and Prosumers are making it happen.

In time there will be no specialized, niche markets at all in consumer tech, and that includes the "Pro" segment. We will all have access to them, with better tools that will be far easier to use.
 
I was moving along happily with FCP 5, 6, and 7...was so looking forward to 8. Too bad they didn't "revolutionize" in a way that the pro industry could embrace.

My thoughts on FCPX:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pliT0itT5rc&feature=feedu

Yet.

It took 4 years for FCP to get into a mainstream Hollywood movie, and even then it was a big stretch and a bold move by Munch.

Apple could have waited 4 years to release FCP X until it was all polished and ready and in the mean time release updated FCP Studio's though, but then again, that's something Apple never does. When they want to reboot, they do it quite abruptly.
 
Times change people, move on. Carbon is effectively dead, and most of FCP needed to be re-written for this reason regardless. FCP X is a new beginning, and there is no question that Apple has huge plans for it. If you can't see this, then you have absolutely no concept of where computers are headed in the next few years.

Let me pose a question... How well do you think the "classic" UI in older versions of FCP would translate to large-format multi-touch Mac displays? How well do you think Avid's and Adobe's existing software will adapt to this new interaction model?

I have no doubt that's where Apple is going with this. It's a big risk in terms of lost marketshare, but I think they were very wise to put out a shipping product based upon these UI conventions sooner than later. Complex software like this takes tons of development time, field use, and user feedback to become truly refined. You don't just slap a new UI on 15+ year old software and call it a day.
 
The problem with your "analysis" LTD is that you are ignoring the fact that as a professional and even as a consumer - it's about the features and benefits of the software. So while FCPX might be good for many people - it lost a lot of functionality that even basic editors want/need and have been accustomed to being able to do via previous tools.

I think people can get past a UI change and a different way of doing things. What professionals (and even consumers) don't care for is when the NEW version of software whether it's word processing, video editing, or whatever removes functions and features that have been germane to the software in previous versions.

The reason people used FCP was never the features, it was the price. The only reason it sold and became popular was that because AVID was much more pricy, which was and still is "the" best NLE out there.

So what Apple did back then, and what they did with FCP X is basically the same. Offer a package which sells for almost 1/10'th the price, but is missing many features.

But as it happened with FCP 1.0, those missing features were somewhat fixed in upcoming iterations, and it took many years for it to become "passable" for broadcast work.
 
The reason people used FCP was never the features, it was the price. The only reason it sold and became popular was that because AVID was much more pricy, which was and still is "the" best NLE out there.

So what Apple did back then, and what they did with FCP X is basically the same. Offer a package which sells for almost 1/10'th the price, but is missing many features.

But as it happened with FCP 1.0, those missing features were somewhat fixed in upcoming iterations, and it took many years for it to become "passable" for broadcast work.

Ok. So what you're saying is Apple took forever to make their software usable and then immediately regressed back to crippling it? Gotcha. Smaaaaaart business.
 
I'm not Jobs' bio book yet, but I'm wondering if he mentions anything about the change to FCX. It would be interesting as I'm about half way through and he's reiterated a few times about selling to the masses, but also the creative ppl.

makes me wonder.

i'm still using FCP7. It works for me. Tried FCX and I can see the benefits, but I'm not switching at this point in time. Maybe later.
 
I'm not Jobs' bio book yet, but I'm wondering if he mentions anything about the change to FCX. It would be interesting as I'm about half way through and he's reiterated a few times about selling to the masses, but also the creative ppl.

makes me wonder.

i'm still using FCP7. It works for me. Tried FCX and I can see the benefits, but I'm not switching at this point in time. Maybe later.

No mention of FCPX
 
Ok. So what you're saying is Apple took forever to make their software usable and then immediately regressed back to crippling it? Gotcha. Smaaaaaart business.

FCP started selling in late 1999 and became usable in high end work around 2004. And Apple regressed back after 7 years.

That's not immediate.
Whether that's smart business or not I don't know. Only time will show that.

The point is, Apple didn't need to put out the best NLE out there to make it almost the most popular NLE. Lower price point in the end did win over missing features and FCP became a success in the NLE world.

So it's a useless argument when people say "this will fail because it's missing so many features". The only example in hand points to the opposite direction.

I'm not saying it'll be a success either, again, only time will show.
 
Times change people, move on. Carbon is effectively dead, and most of FCP needed to be re-written for this reason regardless. FCP X is a new beginning, and there is no question that Apple has huge plans for it. If you can't see this, then you have absolutely no concept of where computers are headed in the next few years.
Not one bit of that involves today. Users buy software today.

May I have your permission for software to be developed either in-house or with willing beta communities, and have consumers and producers use software that is "post-bug" that has already been developed and "just works"? Please?

Thank you.

Rocketman, happy modal or trailing edge adopter
 
I'm not Jobs' bio book yet, but I'm wondering if he mentions anything about the change to FCX. It would be interesting as I'm about half way through and he's reiterated a few times about selling to the masses, but also the creative ppl.

makes me wonder.

i'm still using FCP7. It works for me. Tried FCX and I can see the benefits, but I'm not switching at this point in time. Maybe later.

He doesn't talk about it but his overall philosophy comes through. He was never afraid of killing something to move onto something bigger, even if it caused problems in the short run.

People thought the iMac would flop because it didn't have a 1.44MB floppy drive.

Avid execs can enjoy their bonuses this year, but it is a temporary bump.
 
Change stinks

Hahahah... I have yet to meet a person who hates change and isn't constantly upset and irritated by life in general. Damn that fourth dimension!!!


Sucks losing essential functionality though. I guess a bunch of you will have to stick with 7 til X shapes up. Lucky for you guys who were so happy with 7 and didn't want it to change, there won't be any further updates! You can enjoy 7 forever. ...and ever. ...and ever...
 
I spoke with my Avid rep last month, and the end of the discussion I asked him how the FCPX debacle has impacted them.

I saw a wonderful smile, and he said "It was the best present a competitor could have handed them without going bust". Without giving anything away, they are seeing some major post houses in LA, NY and London buying more copies of Media Composer and IO hardware, way more than expected, as well as a ton of copies on the "competitive upgrade deal" they had.

They be very happy!
Yes and they would never lie to you ;)
 
If they completed the 64-bit Final Cut Pro 8, they should at least release it as an update to existing Final Cut Pro 8 users so they can make better use of the product on current machines, especially given how Final Cut Pro X is not suitable for REAL professionals.

Talk about a waste of resources...finishing something and then just shelving it. It seems hard to believe, but then Apple was and is run by near-sighted people who can only see their narrow little view of the world and what anyone else needs/wants doesn't matter one iota. Trash the whole professional market for Apple products. They're making a ton of money on iPads so it makes logical sense.... :rolleyes:
 
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