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Apple Seeds Lion 10.7.3 Beta to Developers

JordanNZ said:
Why do you keep posting this? As others have pointed out Lion has had OpenGL 3.2 support since launch! :confused:
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He keeps posting it because he is one of those people Macrumors should have banned long ago for failing to participate in a forum discussion after making a post. Nothing angers me more than some individual who posts in response to a story but does nothing in the way of follow up to check responses - to me a person who fails to do that is a troll and should be banned immediately.
 
Snowcat001 said:
To all people complaining about the dropping wifi in Lion, it's the same in Snow Leopard 10.6.8 for me on my unibody mbp. It started 3 months ago and I'm forced to use the ethernet cable instead.
:
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Welcome to Macintosh! This is not trolling in anyway, but when can anyone recall a version of OSX that wasn't plagued with some kind of Wi-Fi issue?

I think the worse part of the wi-fi demons in OSX is that they are so random. Not everyone has them. Some people have them every version, some miss them, but they're always there.

An update will take my wi-fi issues away, and then the next will say "wi-fi improvements" and they come back. Luckily, sine last update I've been good. (And I hope I didn't just invite the ghost back into the machine.)

MacAddict2000 said:
And yet the opposing team gets support all the way back to Windows Vista? (I've heard people have been able to get iCloud to work with XP SP3 even). How is that at all fair to us? Mac OS X Tiger was the latest Mac OS when Vista came out, and yet, Apple won't support their own users using an OS that's only been off the shelf for not even five months? Do they not realize most users (especially the "average Joe" type they're catering to these days) don't upgrade their OS like the fanatics do? I guarantee you there are still probably more users on Snow Leopard AND Leopard than Lion at this point in time. It's not about being left behind, it's about forcing people to upgrade. Apple seems to be too happy with all this power they have these days and they are abusing it.

From what I've observed by friends who have Macs, the "buyer's remorse" rating for OS X Lion seems to be pretty high. A few long-time Mac users I have come across lately seem to be really unhappy with Apple and are contemplating switching to other platforms. I guarantee they are not alone in their decision either.

In regards to the 10.6.9 comment, it is rare, but Apple has released updates for previous OS's before. One I can think of right now is 10.4.11, which came out a few weeks after 10.5 was released. I'm not saying 10.6.9 is likely, but it would totally be possible if Apple had enough common sense to do it.
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People keeping saying iCloud would be too hard to support...blah blah... uh, bull ****. iCloud only built on Mobile Me, which is already baked in to SL. It's a glorified syncing service. There is not 1 feature that wouldn't be simple to support.

iCloud is simply another Siri. A reason to make people want to upgrade. All your media is handled in iTunes, so don't even go there. The bulk of features they removed in the transition from MobileMe to iCloud would have been the ones that would have been the most difficult, oh but that's right... they were supported anyway.

The most simple utility could offer support.

Never mention that people aren't loving Lion on MacRumors. It's a guaranteed negative vote, despite the fact it's quite true. The bulk of people here buy new hardware when the wind blows, but Lion doesn't play well on a lot of systems it claims to support. It's laggy, slow, freezes, crashes, etc. Each update has made minor improvements, but I hate using my computer. It went from a multi-tasking machine to one I'm terrified to have more than 2 apps open at a time, and I have to choose those carefully or it's the spinning beach ball of death.

It feels like Lion doesn't manage resources well. Considering that Lion isn't a huge leap under the hood over SL, it's somewhat inexcusable for an update that's mostly lip gloss. It feels like Lion needs the treatment Leopard got with Snow Leopard. Sadly, I don't see most of the gripes people have with it's performance getting fixed. If you have a system that's 2 years old or newer, you might not even notice some of these things much.

They really shouldn't have supported Core2Duo machines. Yeah people would have cried how it was evil not to support machines under 5 years old (or 4 in some cases) but the performance is so bad, I'd rather not have upgraded.

I'd go backwards, but it's a royal pain in the _____. Next year is new Mac year for me, and I can't wait.

JordanNZ said:
Aha.

I'm sure I've seen him post this at least 3 or 4 times in other threads, and he's never once read any of the responses to it. It's incredibly frustrating.
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Guess what? He'll ask again about open gl because he's not reading it now either! LOL
 
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MacAddict1978 said:
Never mention that people aren't loving Lion on MacRumors. It's a guaranteed negative vote, despite the fact it's quite true. The bulk of people here buy new hardware when the wind blows, but Lion doesn't play well on a lot of systems it claims to support. It's laggy, slow, freezes, crashes, etc. Each update has made minor improvements, but I hate using my computer. It went from a multi-tasking machine to one I'm terrified to have more than 2 apps open at a time, and I have to choose those carefully or it's the spinning beach ball of death.

It feels like Lion doesn't manage resources well. Considering that Lion isn't a huge leap under the hood over SL, it's somewhat inexcusable for an update that's mostly lip gloss. It feels like Lion needs the treatment Leopard got with Snow Leopard. Sadly, I don't see most of the gripes people have with it's performance getting fixed. If you have a system that's 2 years old or newer, you might not even notice some of these things much.

They really shouldn't have supported Core2Duo machines. Yeah people would have cried how it was evil not to support machines under 5 years old (or 4 in some cases) but the performance is so bad, I'd rather not have upgraded.
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It's refreshing to read someone as honest as I've been myself regarding Lion, and I've been on the receiving end of these negative votes also. I've posted two similar posts to your own in two other threads in the Lion section, one thread regarding performance on 2GB of RAM and another thread discussing if Lion is Apple's own version of Vista.

I voted up your post because the majority of it echos my own sentiments, however I wouldn't say Core 2 Duo machines should have been dropped. My biggest issue with Lion is RAM management. You can have the machine on for 45 minutes using Safari and iTunes, and if you suddenly experience a drop in the fluidity of animations going to/from full screen mode, opening Launchpad, or scrolling in Safari, check the RAM usage in Activity Monitor and you can be damn sure that Lion has changed all free memory to inactive memory.

Now, again, this argument rages that inactive RAM is free RAM, but it's simply not the case when the system is moving free to inactive without the RAM ever being physically used by the system in the first place. Inactive RAM, normally, is RAM that has been used by a process which has been quit, and the RAM remains "waiting" in state to be used by another process that may require it. However, Lion simply changes the free memory to inactive, without it ever being used, which is causing performance issues and it's something Snow Leopard, which flies on my machine compared to Lion (post 45/60 minute use mark) did not do.

I've spent most of today backing up and doing a clean install of Snow Leopard, and it's great to finally have my Mac back, the one I enjoyed using, the one I would tell friends was so great to use, and which got family and friends to switch upon using it.

Lion is NOT perfect, and as I also said in the other threads, I can't shake the hunch that the loss of Bertrand Serlet played a part in how Lion operates. It handles RAM completely the opposite way to Snow Leopard, and it really does show at times.
 
My MacBook Pro couldn't hold a wifi connection from 10.6.6 to 10.6.8 (it was fine between 10.6.3 and 10.6.5) - but it's worked perfectly in in every release of Lion so far.
 
MacAddict1978 said:
They really shouldn't have supported Core2Duo machines. Yeah people would have cried how it was evil not to support machines under 5 years old (or 4 in some cases) but the performance is so bad, I'd rather not have upgraded.
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I have a 2009 MacBook Pro, which is Core2Duo and Lion runs perfectly fine on it, no issues whatsoever, or at least no new issues over SL.
 
rainbowsofwhite said:
Get rid of the message (or at least give an option to hide/disable in system preferences)

"Reopen windows when logging back in".

I have to uncheck this every single time I shut down.......ggrrrr.
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Holy crap, yes! One of the main reasons I log out is to get rid of all the window clutter. And they want to bring it back for me, no extra charge!
 
This should hopefully be a no-brainer for anyone who consider updating to early developer / beta software releases, but make sure you take a complete system backup before you update!

TimeMachine, CarbonCopy, SuperDuper or whatever you like to use. Because when you have gone 10.7.3 11D16 there is no going back.



For me this update has worked worse than any prior update for Mac OS X Lion, this is feeling like one of the very first developer previews for Mac OS X Lion when it was in the early beta phase. I've been through all the 10.7.1 developer builds, I've been through all the 10.7.2 developer builds and I played around with most of the Mac OS X Lion 10.7.0 developer previews as well and this is the first build I simply can't put up with just for the shake of testing pre-released software for Apple.


Whereas I normally expect bugs and whatnot, I did not expect my entire system going down the drain. Luckily I have yet encounter any kernel panics or anything, but the entire system is so laggy that it's not even remotely funny. Even the simplest task, even though iStats Pro claims my system to barley utilise the CPU, RAM or anything is feeling so sluggish that it's hard to describe it.

Even upon using Safari only things start to feel sluggish, the scrolling is skipping, even writing text on forums is getting slow at times whereas things I write takes like a few seconds before it's shown on my screen etc.. Football Manager 2012 has become unplayable as there is a noticeable 2-3 second delay for every click and interaction within the game, HTML5 videos online will start playing and you can hear the sound but the video won't show until a few seconds later and it will have random hiccups during playback.




This is pre-released software, so I won't complain too much but this doesn't seems fairly tested at all and I would highly recommend all of you whom consider updating to really make sure you've got your backup in place as I believe many of you will be rolling back to 10.7.2 sooner rather than later.

My experience is biased on a MacBook Pro 17" Early 2011 model, running 8GiB RAM and OCZ Vertex 3 240GB SSD.
 
flowsy said:
It's so damn laggy! And iTunes behaves funny. Almost all the time up at 100%+ CPU load.

Hello Time Machine!
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yea, same situation here mate, Ive tried 10.7, and 2 days later I was back at SL, next time there was 10.7.1 so Ive tried that as well and I thought, its gonna be fine and I was wrong, ...and the same happend on 10.7.2, it just is not that snappy and stable as SL, and what I hate is Mission Control, Im really happy with Expose and I will be for a long time, until Lion will be stable enough and some clever head figure out Expose for Lion.
 
MacAddict1978 said:
Welcome to Macintosh! This is not trolling in anyway, but when can anyone recall a version of OSX that wasn't plagued with some kind of Wi-Fi issue?


{snip....}


They really shouldn't have supported Core2Duo machines. Yeah people would have cried how it was evil not to support machines under 5 years old (or 4 in some cases) but the performance is so bad, I'd rather not have upgraded.

I'd go backwards, but it's a royal pain in the _____. Next year is new Mac year for me, and I can't wait.

Guess what? He'll ask again about open gl because he's not reading it now either! LOL
Click to expand...


Agree with some of your concerns about Lion....doesn't feel as developed as compared to SL...but then L then SL have been out for some time, with time for updates and refinements...so, hopefully, in another update or two, Lion will start to feel and perform better...

My biggest beef with Lion is that Apple deleted the scrollbar arrows! For some of us that actually was very useful to have....know that's a separate topic, but really wish that Apple would provide a preference checkbox to allow us to have them again if we want......

Anyway, as I have C2D MacBook, please don't give Apple anymore ideas....as I don't want to buy another MacBook right now.... ;)
 
Lion's great

Wow.. I could quote really a lot of responses on this topic.
I am running Lion on a MacBook Pro 13 " mid 2009 and I haven't experienced
anything like slowing down performance or encountering the uselessness of new inventions like launchpad.. I have to admit, because I am running an iMac latest model with Lion right next to my macbook, that it runs incredibly fast and snappy on that machine and my macbook seems a bit pitiful compared to the i5's performance.
But still.. I find it the most intuitive operating system yet.
For example:
In Lion I use the dock mainly for file-browsing my favorite locations and managing open applications. I have my two most used applications still in the dock though. While as launchpad (on a macbook opening with just a swipe) serves just perfectly for fast access to all(!) your apps and the possibility of creating folders and arrange your apps over several pages is also given. So I find nothing wrong with that either. Full Screen apps is really great. So much space now on my actually pretty small screen. iCloud is just great. I so often forget about pictures I took, so they are automatically there on my macbook.. I like that. I use iCal and Contacts in iCloud which is (maybe just in my case) awesome. Also features for the iPhone, using iCloud. I could go on.. and my intelCore2Duo just runs it nice and easy (cool around the pool ;).

I am looking forward to all those updates to Lion, because usually they are improving the operating system's functions, performance and security.
 
Mr. Retrofire said:
The v10.7.3 delta update for 11C74 (official v10.7.2 in the MAS) is huge: 633 MB! So i think they changed more than just iCloud document storage, Address Book, iCal and Mail. Btw, the size of the v10.7.3 combo update is 1.08 GB (for v10.7.0-v10.7.2).

Edit:

Some updates/bug fixes in v10.7.3 beta 1:

Core OS:
- Kernel (OS)
- Sandbox (Security)
- EFI-related code (boot.efi, EFILogin.framework)
- diskutil & DiskManagement.framework/CoreStorage

IO components:
- Firewire/Thunderbolt drivers

Graphics:
- ATI/Intel/NVIDIA graphics card drivers
- QuickLook/QuickTime/Quartz/OpenGL/OpenCL

Network:
- Remote Management
- Firewall & mDNSResponder/webfilter
- WiFi/WLAN/Bluetooth drivers and frameworks

Misc:
- Java (probably only browser compatibility)
- CUPS (Printing)
Click to expand...

Hmm, I don't see any mention of SMB compatability there. Connecting to our 2003Server has been very slow and ropy since 10.7.2. Takes about 2 minutes just to make a connection with the server, if at all. I hope apple plan to fix this known bug.
 
There's more to this seed than meets the eye. That or Geekbench doesn't know how to handle 10.7.3.

Before this seed my 2010 Mac Pro single quad core 2.8 was benchmarked at around 9500. With the 10.7.3 seed Geekbench shows a benchmark of around 4800.

Take that with a handful of salt because I "think" this seed is passing off a lot of the cycles to the graphics card.

I transcoded a tv show that was H.264 60fps 1080i with a bitrate of around 10k.

Handbrake transcoded it and it didn't use the normally used QTkit. The memory never went down and the cpu usage was very low. It also took twice as long.

I thought it was due to a bad install so I re-installed the O/S and had the same result.

I think Apple is toying with passing off more cpu cycles to the graphics card for some reason.
 
Peace said:
Before this seed my 2010 Mac Pro single quad core 2.8 was benchmarked at around 9500. With the 10.7.3 seed Geekbench shows a benchmark of around 4800.

Take that with a handful of salt because I "think" this seed is passing off a lot of the cycles to the graphics card.
Click to expand...

Probably just debugging code, which makes some parts of the OS slow. The will remove this code in the final version.
 
Peace said:
Don't think so. I've been doing this for 10 years and I've never seen this kind of drop before.
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Does 10.7.x now include dtrace ( tracing utility ).

If you try the handbrake on both systems with dtrace running it should show you exactly the calls that are being made and allow one to make some educated guesses to possibly backup your theory.
 
johnhurley said:
Does 10.7.x now include dtrace ( tracing utility ).

If you try the handbrake on both systems with dtrace running it should show you exactly the calls that are being made and allow one to make some educated guesses to possibly backup your theory.
Click to expand...

I think it's Geekbench.

However it's kind of weird because the QTKit framework lists the systems.plist file and the MacPro 5,1 ( mid 2010 model ) is missing.


<string>iMac4,1</string>
<string>iMac4,2</string>
<string>iMac5,1</string>
<string>iMac5,2</string>
<string>iMac6,1</string>
<string>iMac7,1</string>
<string>iMac8,1</string>
<string>iMac9,1</string>
<string>iMac10,1</string>
<string>iMac11,1</string>
<string>iMac11,2</string>
<string>iMac11,3</string>
<string>Macmini1,1</string>
<string>Macmini2,1</string>
<string>Macmini3,1</string>
<string>Macmini4,1</string>
<string>MacPro1,1</string>
<string>MacPro2,1</string>
<string>MacPro3,1</string>
<string>MacPro4,1</string>
<string>MacBook1,1</string>
<string>MacBook2,1</string>
<string>MacBook3,1</string>
<string>MacBook4,1</string>
<string>MacBook5,1</string>
<string>MacBook5,2</string>
<string>MacBook6,1</string>
<string>MacBook7,1</string>
<string>MacBookAir1,1</string>
<string>MacBookAir2,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro1,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro1,2</string>
<string>MacBookPro2,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro2,2</string>
<string>MacBookPro3,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro3,2</string>
<string>MacBookPro4,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro5,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro5,2</string>
<string>MacBookPro5,3</string>
<string>MacBookPro5,4</string>
<string>MacBookPro5,5</string>
<string>MacBookPro6,1</string>
<string>MacBookPro6,2</string>
<string>MacBookPro7,1</string>
 
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There seem to be new cursors in 10.7.3 :) Only just noticed them. Look pretty nice :p

NewCursor.jpg
 
Some 'improvements' which I'd like to see removed in Lion or at least I'd like to have a way to disable them:

1) "the reopen windows when logging back in" feature. Right now I'm using CleanShutdown to bypass this easily: http://www.gizmoblurb.com/2011/07/cleanshutdown-fighting-lions-dictatorship/

2) The save-versions feature. I don't want to keep several versions of most files (being kept in a single file). TimeMachine was already creating regular snapshots - that was sufficient. From Preview I now have to do an export to get rid of all those versions. This just sucks.

3) Lock feature on files to prevent auto-save. Get real. I'm used to work with files for over 30 years. I don't need this kind of patronizing / sillyness. If I'd like to have an OS which tries to keep me from making silly errors, I'd use Windows. OS-X should be fast, no-nonsense, just like X. At least, I'd like to have the option to turn of this feature completely as it hurting my productivity.

3) Get rid of launchpad. I just don't use it but it's taking valuable space on my dock.

Regarding the WLAN and sleep issues, I'm glad I still have my laptop running Snow Leopard although even SL does have some occasional WLAN issues. I won't upgrade until Lion is solid enough.
 
I'm a neophyte when it comes to computer tech, so I can't explain very well... BUT, I hope my issues w/ playing HD video in Lion can be fixed (I never had such problems when using Snow Leo). I am on an old machine--early 2007 MBP, 2.16GHz C2D w/ maxed-out 3 GB RAM). Pretty much every time I play HD video, (using either M Player X, VLC, QT (w/ Perian) or even iTunes), I get strange colored lines going across my screen horizontally). My fans start to scream, & eventually my MBP freezes, outputting audio, but it accepts no input commands via keyboard, touchpad nor external mouse. I always have to do a hard shut-down (holding down power button).

Again, I realize I have an old MBP, but I never had any issues in Snow Leopard...
 
Can't wait for this to be released, my favorite mac app DayOne is waiting for iCloud support with 10.7.3.
 
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