Apple Seeds Mac OS X Leopard (9A527/9A528a)

[qrayg]

Column View lets you do that in a single window with one drag and zero clicks, with no delays or spring-loading needed.

"Cut" would be a fine option to have as well. Why not, since some people would like it? But OS X does have very good ways to handle the task already.

I'll say it again since you didn't read my entire post: I shouldn't have to change the Finder view mode. I don't have to change the view mode in any other OS to do the same task.

I'd even be happy with a move paste rather than a "Cut". I could easily get used to doing a Copy and then pressing CMD+ALT+V or something similar to move the files when pasting. Some people have a hard time understanding that a double "Cut" is not possible and therefore no data would be lost. So for those close-minded individuals, a "Move Paste" would solve everyone's problem.

 

[qrayg]

What? You must be using one of them lisas or somethin'.

Get your point but exaggerating ain't helpin' any...

If the sidebar does not have a shortcut to the drive that you want to move the files to then you will have to take the time to add the shortcut and then renavigate to the original location. That could easily take 20-60 seconds right there. Again, I said "depending on your sidebar setup".

Yeah, sometime it only takes a few seconds longer than using the "Cut" would. It doesn't change the fact that it does take longer and that productivity would definitely increase if "Cut" was there by default.

Even a "Move Paste" from a normal "Copy" would be beneficial.

 

[MrCrowbar]

If the sidebar does not have a shortcut to the drive that you want to move the files to then you will have to take the time to add the shortcut and then renavigate to the original location. That could easily take 20-60 seconds right there. Again, I said "depending on your sidebar setup".

Yeah, sometime it only takes a few seconds longer than using the "Cut" would. It doesn't change the fact that it does take longer and that productivity would definitely increase if "Cut" was there by default.

Even a "Move Paste" from a normal "Copy" would be beneficial.

Just navigate to the file to move in Finder, hit COMMAND+N to open a new finder window, navigate to the destination. Now drag and drop the file to the destination, use expose if your finder windows overlap. Even if the file (or selection of files or folders) has to be physically copied to another volume, you can trash the original file right after the copy process started. This way you won't forget it. Should you try to empty the trash, you will be told the file is busy until the copy is complete.

 

[MrCrowbar]

thanks...i'll need a very expensive flash drive to do my experiment...unless i can do something to cut the size down.

I once istalled Tiger on my 8GB iPod nano. I did reinstall OSX and the iPod showed up when you select the destination volume. I was iintrigued and selected the black iPod icon. Worked nicely. Booting from the iPod was kinda slow, but real life performance was very nice. Some flash Memory to put into the PCI express slots in the Macbook Pro would be ideal. Even 8G would be great for the swap space and the sleep image (which is as big as your amount of RAM).

 

[TBi]

Just navigate to the file to move in Finder, hit COMMAND+N to open a new finder window, navigate to the destination. Now drag and drop the file to the destination, use expose if your finder windows overlap. Even if the file (or selection of files or folders) has to be physically copied to another volume, you can trash the original file right after the copy process started. This way you won't forget it. Should you try to empty the trash, you will be told the file is busy until the copy is complete.

Or they could just add a simple cut command to the context menu.

By the way you can hold command and it will move the file to another volume. This way you don't have to worry about the recycle bin.

Then again, why should i do this when it would be vastly easier for them to put a cut item on the menu.

 

[netnothing]

Here's a problem with dragging a file to move it

As I've said before, dragging a file to move it in OS X is a pain because more times than I can count, I've clicked....started to drag the file....used the spring loaded folders.....and reached my destination....only to find the image attached below:

I can't let go of the mouse to change the view to list view....and I surely can't get to that folder that is buried in the middle.

Now....if Apple could just get the Finder preferences option to work so I can force all windows to open in List view....well that would help.

But c'mon....let's just add a cut feature and be done with it.

-Kevin

 

[MrCrowbar]

As I've said before, dragging a file to move it in OS X is a pain because more times than I can count, I've clicked....started to drag the file....used the spring loaded folders.....and reached my destination....only to find the image attached below:

I can't let go of the mouse to change the view to list view....and I surely can't get to that folder that is buried in the middle.

Now....if Apple could just get the Finder preferences option to work so I can force all windows to open in List view....well that would help.

But c'mon....let's just add a cut feature and be done with it.

-Kevin

Interesting toolbar config...

I guess the reason OSX has no cut feature is because it confuses people because it seemingly does the same thing as copy. Maybe a "move to" option would work, if a new finder opens up to let you choose the destination.

I'll just go on with 2 finder windows and drag/drop across them.

 

[3282872]

You should probably answer some of your email.

Yeah, I saw that and commented to him before. 500 something unread lol, that's a busy guy.

 

[TBi]

As I've said before, dragging a file to move it in OS X is a pain because more times than I can count, I've clicked....started to drag the file....used the spring loaded folders.....and reached my destination....only to find the image attached below:

I can't let go of the mouse to change the view to list view....and I surely can't get to that folder that is buried in the middle.

Now....if Apple could just get the Finder preferences option to work so I can force all windows to open in List view....well that would help.

But c'mon....let's just add a cut feature and be done with it.

-Kevin

You can set finder to align all the icons by default so they won't always be on top of each other. It's in the preferences or view options somewhere

Interesting toolbar config...

I guess the reason OSX has no cut feature is because it confuses people because it seemingly does the same thing as copy. Maybe a "move to" option would work, if a new finder opens up to let you choose the destination.

I'll just go on with 2 finder windows and drag/drop across them.

Yes, yes true. I know some people who are confused by the cut/copy options.

They are also confused about which way up a CD/DVD goes and usually get distracted by blinking lights...

However, every non-mentally challenged person* i know usually understands the difference after using it once. Especially since almost everyone who uses a computer has used a word processor and knows that when you highlight a word and cut and paste it disapears, they also found that when using copy and paste it doesn't disapear.

Using "paste / move to" is very bad idea because cut/paste is widely used in various programs and OS's. Why confuse these people who can't understand the difference with cut and copy with a new command. If they can't understand one they sure as hell won't understand the other.

* I don't mean to insult most of the mentally challenged people out there who can actually understand this. However some people make mentally challenged people look like geniuses...

 

[Whiskerdreams]

No True Standard

You can set finder to align all the icons by default so they won't always be on top of each other. It's in the preferences or view options somewhere


Yes, yes true. I know some people who are confused by the cut/copy options.

They are also confused about which way up a CD/DVD goes and usually get distracted by blinking lights...

However, every non-mentally challenged person* i know usually understands the difference after using it once. Especially since almost everyone who uses a computer has used a word processor and knows that when you highlight a word and cut and paste it disapears, they also found that when using copy and paste it doesn't disapear.

Using "paste / move to" is very bad idea because cut/paste is widely used in various programs and OS's. Why confuse these people who can't understand the difference with cut and copy with a new command. If they can't understand one they sure as hell won't understand the other.

* I don't mean to insult most of the mentally challenged people out there who can actually understand this. However some people make mentally challenged people look like geniuses...

Yes... And then you get those that use Excel which when you cut simply puts up flashing lights around the cell without removing the information until you paste it somewhere... There is no "true" standard...

 

[simontarr]

Yes... And then you get those that use Excel which when you cut simply puts up flashing lights around the cell without removing the information until you paste it somewhere... There is no "true" standard...

<Peter Griffin> Touche Salesman </Peter Griffin>

 

[hohlecow]

the recycle bin.

use windows much?

try this: in explorer, "cut" a file. drag that file to another folder or move it to the recycle bin. paste the file. what should happen in this situation? (interestingly, if OS X did have a cut feature, this wouldn't happen because it probably wouldn't reference the file by path).

you have to have a destination folder for your cut operation, is it really that difficult to have that folder ready before you start your drag?

on the other hand, if you're unhappy because there are no keyboard shortcuts:
<command>+Space, term, down, enter
mv /original/path/file-to-move /new/parent/folder<enter>
<command>+Q
a little more complicated then <command>+X, find the folder, <command>+V, but no mouse involved, either

 

[3282872]

While I agree "cut and past" would be a great feature for Leopard, how did this thread get hijacked into a "cut and paste" discussion? lol

 

[jonkemerer]

I'm going to voice my opinion on the whole cut / paste thang and go out on a limb here and say that Windows at least trumps OS X in usability in this regard. I used to have a Mac Mini back in '05 and while I loved the OS the switch was just a bit overwhelming considering that I've used Windows since '95. I was one of those people posting "Ok I just switched, why is "cut" broken?". It would have made more sense if Cut was simply missing rather than greyed out all the tiume in finder. Even then....

I do not have OS X or a Mac right now, I sold my Mini ultimately after a year because I needed the money and my Windows machine was faster (more appropriately, my Mini was too slow). I loved OS X (despite its eccentricities) and I have my eye on that 24" iMac, come October or November I plan on getting one. I just hope Leopard will provide it's users, Mac and Windows switchers alike, with a Cut feature. This stupid little feature would make this likely Windows switcher a thousand times happier.

And while Apple is at it, the ability to rename files in the "save" dialogs. Whoops, am I opening a new can of worms

 

[LoganT]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem with copy and paste and moving files.

To copy a file you select the file(s) then hit Command+C or right click and hit "Copy items". Then you go into the place where you want to paste them and hit Command+V or right click and hit "Paste items". To move a file you select what you want to move and then hover it over a folder and then hover it over any more folders then let go when you are done.

EDIT: It's called Spring-loaded folders.

Here's a tutorial if you need one.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/26/mac-101-spring-loaded-folders/

 

[3282872]

I'm not sure I'm understanding the problem with copy and paste and moving files.

To copy a file you select the file(s) then hit Command+C or right click and hit "Copy items". Then you go into the place where you want to paste them and hit Command+V or right click and hit "Paste items". To move a file you select what you want to move and then hover it over a folder and then hover it over any more folders then let go when you are done.

EDIT: It's called Spring-loaded folders.

Here's a tutorial if you need one.

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/06/26/mac-101-spring-loaded-folders/

Ahhh, so THAT is what spring loaded means. I gotcha. Personally, I always wondered why cut and paste wasn't used. Could it be cause a cut and pasted (moved) app would screw up the system's known location of the file, thus causing the program to malfunction?

 

[rented mule]

Ahhh, so THAT is what spring loaded means. I gotcha. Personally, I always wondered why cut and paste wasn't used. Could it be cause a cut and pasted (moved) app would screw up the system's known location of the file, thus causing the program to malfunction?

No...as many have mentioned, Apple has made the decision not to implement the 'Cut' feature because the 'Cut' action has always deleted what is being cut and put that thing in memory until it was pasted. This behavior, while not so devastating in a word processor for example, could be very disastrous in a file manager environment like the Finder. If a user cuts a file and forgets to paste it elsewhere and even if the Finder could 'undo' the mistake if caught early, he could completely forget, restart his computer and lose the file forever.

This is not the way Windows' 'Cut' feature in Explorer works...Cut in Explorer will temporarily gray out the file to show that it's being cut...but if the user forgets to paste the file, the file isn't deleted. This solves the problem but makes the 'Cut' feature inconsistent with it's normal known behavior of deleting the selected object.

I, however, think Cut could be added to the Finder if there was a sufficiently powerful 'undo' history for the Finder and considering Time Machine is now available to anyone. I used to be very much against the idea of having a 'Cut' feature in the Finder but now I'm very much for the idea since it will be harder to completely lose a file.

As for the idea of allowing files to be renamed in the Open/Save dialog sheets? I'm still very much against it...an Open/Save dialog sheet is not meant to be a file manager...but simply a file browser. It makes perfect sense for a file manager like the Finder to allow such things but no sense for a file browser to allow this...*no non-file-managing apps* should allow a user to mess around with existing file names ever.

Besides...adding such things to the Open/Save dialog sheet only creates an unnecessary level of complexity that is already handled by the Finder. If the Open/Save dialog allowed you to create files (other than the file being saved), move files, or rename files, there would be very little need for the Finder. Same with Quick Look...if Quick Look allowed people to edit the document they are looking at...why have apps to edit them?

 

[3282872]

No...as many have mentioned, Apple has made the decision not to implement the 'Cut' feature because the 'Cut' action has always deleted what is being cut and put that thing in memory until it was pasted. This behavior, while not so devastating in a word processor for example, could be very disastrous in a file manager environment like the Finder. If a user cuts a file and forgets to paste it elsewhere and even if the Finder could 'undo' the mistake if caught early, he could completely forget, restart his computer and lose the file forever.

This is not the way Windows' 'Cut' feature in Explorer works...Cut in Explorer will temporarily gray out the file to show that it's being cut...but if the user forgets to paste the file, the file isn't deleted. This solves the problem but makes the 'Cut' feature inconsistent with it's normal known behavior of deleting the selected object.

I, however, think Cut could be added to the Finder if there was a sufficiently powerful 'undo' history for the Finder and considering Time Machine is now available to anyone. I used to be very much against the idea of having a 'Cut' feature in the Finder but now I'm very much for the idea since it will be harder to completely lose a file.

As for the idea of allowing files to be renamed in the Open/Save dialog sheets? I'm still very much against it...an Open/Save dialog sheet is not meant to be a file manager...but simply a file browser. It makes perfect sense for a file manager like the Finder to allow such things but no sense for a file browser to allow this...*no non-file-managing apps* should allow a user to mess around with existing file names ever.

Besides...adding such things to the Open/Save dialog sheet only creates an unnecessary level of complexity that is already handled by the Finder. If the Open/Save dialog allowed you to create files (other than the file being saved), move files, or rename files, there would be very little need for the Finder. Same with Quick Look...if Quick Look allowed people to edit the document they are looking at...why have apps to edit them?

Got it. Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense now. I never considered the aspect of someone "forgetting" to paste the cut file, and as such if the Finder is the same in Leopard as it is in Tiger, well, then it would not be such a good idea. Hmmmm. Perhaps things will change...

 

[Consultant]

As I've said before, dragging a file to move it in OS X is a pain because more times than I can count, I've clicked....started to drag the file....used the spring loaded folders.....and reached my destination....only to find the image attached below:

I can't let go of the mouse to change the view to list view....and I surely can't get to that folder that is buried in the middle.

Hi Kevin, you might want to get your folders organized.

In finder, select icon view (Command-1), then select View Options (Command-J)

Select: All windows
Select: Snap to grid, Keep arranged by Name

This will put all your messy folders everywhere and organize in a grid.

 

[Consultant]

Yes... And then you get those that use Excel which when you cut simply puts up flashing lights around the cell without removing the information until you paste it somewhere... There is no "true" standard...

Yeah, if you have to use windoze for work, you will see a lot more inconsistencies even when comparing only M$ programs.

 

[Patrician]

If you had ever used leopard or even read about it, you'd know that it can be set to opaque.

If you had ever used Leopard or even read about it, you'd know that it can't be set to opaque.

 

[decksnap]

Couldn't we just get a 'shelf' instead of the cut feature? I don't have a problem with that.

For those of you who find spring-loaded folders slow, you can hit the space bar at any time to instantly spring the folder you're hovering on. Cuts the time it takes to move a file in half.

Personally, I've usually got five or six finder windows open at any given point, so the cut feature is unnecessary. But I see the point for you one-window types.

 

[netnothing]

Hi Kevin, you might want to get your folders organized.

In finder, select icon view (Command-1), then select View Options (Command-J)

Select: All windows
Select: Snap to grid, Keep arranged by Name

This will put all your messy folders everywhere and organize in a grid.

I'll have to try this....although I'm not sure if this is broken or not.

For example....what I really want is to force ALL finder windows to be in List view all the time. If I go to a window.....put it in list view, go to view options, select All Windows......it doesn't do anything. If I navigate to a folder I haven't opened before....they are in Icon view.

My friend tried the same thing and got the same results. Looks like as bad as Windows Explorer is....atleast I can FORCE everything to open in List view.

This is one area that irks me. I see they have a dedicated option to force all windows into Column view....but I don't want that...I want list view.

Oh well...maybe Leopard will have fixed this.

-Kevin

 

[netnothing]

From the Thinksecret gallery
http://www.thinksecret.com/archives/leopard9a527/source/finder006.html

In Leopard, Finder windows remember what view mode you last selected, so removed is the "Open new windows in column view" option.

So anyone with Leopard.....does this mean that Finder simply remembers what each view is for EACH folder (like Tiger does now).....or.....if you switch to List View....will new windows continue displaying in list view?

-Kevin

 

[kuribohbabylon]

I'll have to jump in on this Cut/Paste topic with the following which is oh so very much my opinion....

This whole "Cut/Paste" in the Finder is done almost right as it is, they just need to remove the Copy ability to make it perfect. It makes me sad seeing someone cut/copy and paste a file in Windows Explorer (or any other graphical shell for that matter). That says to me that they don't understand what a graphical shell is all about. My personal opinion on graphical file managers allowing it is its a disgustingly dumb way to move things around in a graphical window system. Graphical systems are graphical! Open two windows! Drag and drop! its why you can open more than one folder on the screen at a time. Cut/Copy and Paste should only be used to move text/graphics either inter or intra application and thats all.

On a only slightly related side note, my personal preference is Apple should really drop "Icon" and "List" view from the Finder anyway. Column view is the only way to fly (I do wish we could get the NeXTStep shelf back tho).