Apple Seeds Mac OS X Leopard (9A527/9A528a)

[main chochacho]

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

The cut command is essential for people who do not like to use the mouse for every task.

I use keyboard commands to perform ~50% of the tasks I use my computer for. Even more for certain applications. It is faster for me to work this way. Having to grab the mouse in order to simply move one file between folders is unnecessary, and interrupts my workflow.

In my personal life I have always used macs exclusively, but I do miss this most basic of features from my professional life where I must use Windows.

 

[exigentsky]

I'll have to jump in on this Cut/Paste topic with the following which is oh so very much my opinion....

This whole "Cut/Paste" in the Finder is done almost right as it is, they just need to remove the Copy ability to make it perfect. It makes me sad seeing someone cut/copy and paste a file in Windows Explorer (or any other graphical shell for that matter). That says to me that they don't understand what a graphical shell is all about. My personal opinion on graphical file managers allowing it is its a disgustingly dumb way to move things around in a graphical window system. Graphical systems are graphical! Open two windows! Drag and drop! its why you can open more than one folder on the screen at a time. Cut/Copy and Paste should only be used to move text/graphics either inter or intra application and thats all.

On a only slightly related side note, my personal preference is Apple should really drop "Icon" and "List" view from the Finder anyway. Column view is the only way to fly (I do wish we could get the NeXTStep shelf back tho).

It is "disgustingly dumb" to consider the way you do things to be the only way to do things. I guess by your logic we should just get rid of the keyboard.

Sometimes drag and drop is optimal and sometimes other methods are better. Cut/Copy/Paste is far faster for a large number of these tasks. In fact, I would say NOT using these features is "disgustingly dumb." Why open two windows to drag and drop when you can just cut/copy something and go to wherever you want in the SAME window and in the SAME view to paste. Not to mention, all without the sometimes tiring holding of a mouse button (which also limits your mobility in the interface).

It doesn't help your case that those most familiar and skilled with their software use shortcuts (like Cut/Copy/Paste) the most. Have you seen an advanced Photoshop user work? He rarely even goes into the menus because each function is already mapped in his brain as a shortcut. It's a matter of using the right tool for the job and shortcuts like Cut/Copy/Paste are often the best tools.

 

[Tsurisuto]

One thing I don't like about Leopard is that when you have icons on your desktop, their names are obscured by the dock. I know you can show and hide the dock, but I always prefer my dock to be visible all of the time.

 

[netnothing]

Hi Kevin, you might want to get your folders organized.

In finder, select icon view (Command-1), then select View Options (Command-J)

Select: All windows
Select: Snap to grid, Keep arranged by Name

This will put all your messy folders everywhere and organize in a grid.

Thanks Consultant.....this actually did work....forcing all Icon finder windows to at least keep all the icons arraigned by name and not stacking on top of one and another.

No if they could only fix it to where I could force all new windows to open in List view (unless I change it)...that would be great.

Still.....I want a cut feature!

-Kevin

 

[netnothing]

I'll have to jump in on this Cut/Paste topic with the following which is oh so very much my opinion....

This whole "Cut/Paste" in the Finder is done almost right as it is, they just need to remove the Copy ability to make it perfect. It makes me sad seeing someone cut/copy and paste a file in Windows Explorer (or any other graphical shell for that matter). That says to me that they don't understand what a graphical shell is all about. My personal opinion on graphical file managers allowing it is its a disgustingly dumb way to move things around in a graphical window system. Graphical systems are graphical! Open two windows! Drag and drop! its why you can open more than one folder on the screen at a time. Cut/Copy and Paste should only be used to move text/graphics either inter or intra application and thats all.

Well why then is Apple so big on Keyboard Shortcuts?

As a former Windows user.....the one thing I noticed right away on OS X is that Apple really knows what they are doing when it comes to keyboard shortcuts. After all.....instead of just putting a second button on the mouse...they historically have wanted people to Command+Click. Now, that's not very graphical is it?

-Kevin

 

[badcrumble]

I don't mind the look of the new folders, they aren't fantastic but I understand they need to be a straight-on view for CoverFlow to work. However, I really dislike the look of the Movies, Documents, etc. folder icons in the User directory. They are embossed with a slightly darker blue icon that (to me) doesn't stand out nearly as readily as the color-highlighted ones in Tiger. I can understand not wanting to deviate from the aesthetic they're setting up, but those folders need to be more quickly identifiable.

 

[maclover201]

"This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Apple, Inc."

 

[rented mule]

I don't mind the look of the new folders, they aren't fantastic but I understand they need to be a straight-on view for CoverFlow to work. However, I really dislike the look of the Movies, Documents, etc. folder icons in the User directory. They are embossed with a slightly darker blue icon that (to me) doesn't stand out nearly as readily as the color-highlighted ones in Tiger. I can understand not wanting to deviate from the aesthetic they're setting up, but those folders need to be more quickly identifiable.

Haha, what kidder. The current Tiger ones are terrible at when viewed at anything below 48x48. The Leopard ones might not be perfect (perhaps, like you say, a bit too subtle) but they'll be much more recognizable at any size, in Cover Flow, and by people who have never used Mac OS X before. I don't think the folders are meant to stand out.

 

[macinfo]

Cut Contextual Menu Item

I'd also like to have a "Cut" contextual menu item readily available in the Finder, but as Apple didn't put it in, I just use FileCutter and be quite happy with it!

macinfo

 

[decksnap]

Haha, what kidder. The current Tiger ones are terrible at when viewed at anything below 48x48. The Leopard ones might not be perfect (perhaps, like you say, a bit too subtle) but they'll be much more recognizable at any size, in Cover Flow, and by people who have never used Mac OS X before. I don't think the folders are meant to stand out.

The whole point of an icon is to easily identify an item. I can't think of an icon system more difficult to delineate between than the new home folder set.

 

[kuribohbabylon]

I'm throwing in lots of smileys this time as I was mistaken not to make the previous post a little lighter.

I wasn't as clear in my last post as I had meant to be. I never intended to mean I was against Keyboard shortcuts or using the Clipboard to move data around (inter or intra applications, that is). My issue is with moving files in the finder via keyboard shortcuts (specifically cutting a file and pasting it somewhere else, after all, I use the heck out of command-delete all the time ). When I first sat down at a graphical system that allowed that behavior I dismissed it immediately and wondered why it was there. So the lack of it in the Finder has never been an issue for me. Heck for the bulk of the time I'm in Terminal doing stuff anyway because command line has always been the fastest way for me to get most things done.

I'll leave this particular topic alone with the following: for everyone that wants to cut/copy/paste files in the Finder (to quote Kirk) "go right on quoting regulations". Maybe Apple will add it to the Finder in 10.6. If they do, cool, personally I won't be taking advantage of the newly added "functionality".

 

[rented mule]

The whole point of an icon is to easily identify an item. I can't think of an icon system more difficult to delineate between than the new home folder set.

Now I know you're joking because the new set is *all* about being able to identify easily. Instead of a fuzzy color-loaded picture pasted on top of a folder on a 30 degree angle, you get the silhouette of a much more recognizable object on a flat folder.

The library folder has a silhouette of a library instead of unrecognizable books...take a close look at the books...they look terrible...not only that but the books are impossible to make out at 48x48 and under...they just look like colored bands...I do remember opening the Library folder to put e-books and PDFs when I first used Mac OS X because the icon made me think it was a place to store, well, books. Leopard 1 : Tiger 0

The picture folder has a silhouette of a camera...almost universally known to mean photos and instantly recognizable at almost any size. What do we get in Tiger? A frame, I guess. It looks so bad at 128x128 that I'm not even sure what I'm actually looking at the only clue that it could be a picture frame is the name of the folder. At 48x48 and under it just looks like the front of a filing cabinet drawer. Leopard 2 : Tiger 0

The movie folder has a silhouette of a reel. Again, a universal symbol for movies. I suppose the current one in Tiger is alright to symbolize movies but it's unrecognizable under 32x32 unless you squint and look at the folder name. Leopard 3 : Tiger 0

The sites icon has a silhouette of a globe. Nowadays a glove almost symbolizes the WWW. What the f do we get in Tiger? The picture of a fuzzy browser window at 128x128 which doesn't look like anything describable under 64x64. Look at it...it looks like...nothing. Leopard 4 : Tiger 0

The music folder has a silhouette of music notes. The treble clef on the current music folder is alright but not as universal as music notes. This one scales alright but looks like crap under 20x20 where as the music note will still easily be recognizable. Leopard 5 : Tiger 0

The rest is pretty much equal...the desktop icon in Tiger is better than the desktop icon in Leopard I suppose...but who cares, all the other icons win this hands down. Leopard 7 : Tiger 1

 

[TBi]

Now I know you're joking because the new set is *all* about being able to identify easily. Instead of a fuzzy color-loaded picture pasted on top of a folder on a 30 degree angle, you get the silhouette of a much more recognizable object on a flat folder.

I remember reading before about one of the guidelines apple used for icons was shapes. Every icon had a unique shape because your brain is tweaked to identify shapes. So even though they lack colour, they will probably be easier to find and identify in future.

 

[72930]

I remember reading before about one of the guidelines apple used for icons was shapes. Every icon had a unique shape because your brain is tweaked to identify shapes. So even though they lack colour, they will probably be easier to find and identify in future.

I've never used many Adobe apps, but how do people find working with a lot of CS3 in their docks?

 

[Markus1982]

I've never used many Adobe apps, but how do people find working with a lot of CS3 in their docks?

Adobe got a lot of heat for their new icons. They are plain ugly and break almost any advantage a gui has over a cli.

In smaller docks, the only way to distinguish these icon-cirpples is color or the label that appears while hovering with the mousepointer. What did these stupidos think?

 

[vohdoun]

Adobe got a lot of heat for their new icons. They are plain ugly and break almost any advantage a gui has over a cli.

In smaller docks, the only way to distinguish these icon-cirpples is color or the label that appears while hovering with the mousepointer. What did these stupidos think?

and what did Adobe say to all the complaints? or did they just ignore the people like every big company's business practice is these days.

Everyone else is wrong they are right so to speak.

Going off topic: Adobe should have went this route for their icons. Though I doubt they could be that creative, which they should be. Not crummy squares with text that someone with no skill/imagination would make.
Adobe seems to have done what MS does. A new OS, a brand new UI. Rather than make something good and then refine it upon every new release. Not go from one extreme to another and make people become unfamiliar. It's all about sticking to standards.

 

[skinnylegs]

I remember reading before about one of the guidelines apple used for icons was shapes. Every icon had a unique shape because your brain is tweaked to identify shapes. So even though they lack colour, they will probably be easier to find and identify in future.

I'm down with the new folders but I think you're confusing folders and icons.

 

[Schtumple]

One thing I don't like about Leopard is that when you have icons on your desktop, their names are obscured by the dock. I know you can show and hide the dock, but I always prefer my dock to be visible all of the time.

If the text was in front it would look disgusting.

If the dock was semi transparent it would look overly busy, you'd have the docks graphic, the reflection from the icons in the dock, reflections from the desktop, reflections from any windows (if their close by) and text underneath that, it would be over kill.

 

[skinnylegs]

One thing I don't like about Leopard is that when you have icons on your desktop, their names are obscured by the dock. I know you can show and hide the dock, but I always prefer my dock to be visible all of the time.

I may be wrong but.....

In order for files to end up where they are in your picture, I'm pretty sure you have to manually put them there. When you save a file to the desktop it would normally align itself in such a manner that it would not overlap with the dock. So.....the obvious question is why would you put them there?

 

[Taylor C]

That Photoshop CS3 icon is amazingly cool. You should consider making a complete set, I'd definitely use them.

 

[vohdoun]

That Photoshop CS3 icon is amazingly cool. You should consider making a complete set, I'd definitely use them.

I actually first seen the icon from digitaljames desktop, but he never shares stuff out normally. http://www.velvetmac.com/images/screens/Aug20.jpg

I have the leaf stored in Pixadex but no idea where I got it from, as you can imagine theres been so many Adobe icons been created by people. So I just made the ring base for personal use with the nice blue leaf sitting on top.

Kind of similar to the CS2 icons but a ring angled. I still love that look to this day rather than the pathetic text squares.

The base is slightly transparent similar to the new Apple dock that I like the look of.

 

[Taylor C]

Yeah, I've got the leaf too. I think the base compliments the new dock well.

 

[thewhitehart]

I have a question, after viewing ThinkSecret's new screenshots of the Sharing pane.

Can you now share more than just public folders? Not that I'd want to, but can you share folders outside of the userspace? It seems that the plus button on the file sharing option of the Sharing pane lets you add as many folders as you want.

 

[King Crimson]

Yep!

Fast user switching into Windows on Boot Camp would be nice. That way it doesn't require a reboot, but simply a wake from sleep/hibernation.

That would be

 

[Cromulent]

This is such a ridiculous discussion.

The cut command is essential for people who do not like to use the mouse for every task.

I use keyboard commands to perform ~50% of the tasks I use my computer for. Even more for certain applications. It is faster for me to work this way. Having to grab the mouse in order to simply move one file between folders is unnecessary, and interrupts my workflow.

In my personal life I have always used macs exclusively, but I do miss this most basic of features from my professional life where I must use Windows.

Use Terminal then. It is exactly what it is there for. mv and cp are the commands that will help you most.