Apple Seemingly Unable to Recover Data From 2018 MacBook Pro With Touch Bar When Logic Board Fails

[Guy Clark]

Inability to retrieve data is a very serious problem indeed and Apple need to address this issue and fast.

But if a Logic Board failure were to occur and no Backups had been made it would be the consumer equally at fault. Time Machine Backups are essential on to reliable external Hard Drives such as the Western Digital Blue and available in up to 6TB capacity. Place it in an inexpensive enclosure which most likely will be USB 3.0 so a dongle will be required
https://www.wdc.com/products/internal-storage/wd-blue-pc-desktop-hard-drive.html#WD40EZRZ

I have two Time Machine Backup drives hooked up to my mid 2011 21.5" iMac so if one should fail the other would act as a fallback. Additionally I have a large amount of my data stored on iCloud but nothing beats a physical Backup drive as with cloud storage internet connection is essential.

All Drives are constantly monitored using DriveDX
https://binaryfruit.com/drivedx/

If you wanted to go one step further you can make a Bootable clone of your Hard Drive using Carbon Copy Cloner then set it to make periodical Backups to the cloned drive
https://bombich.com

 

[sir1963nz]

Actual professionals back up all data.

Actual professionals want their data under lock and key in the event something bad happens, especially theft, where we worry about our livelihoods and the value of our work, for some being worth millions.

It looks like Apple took a step in the right direction for the proper demographic.

Apple already had whole disk encryption , its called file vault. It was never reliant on the drive being soldered onto the motherboard.

So Apple did NOT give professionals what they wanted, they already had it. What Apple has done is take away all options for expansion and repair, something professional DO want.

 

[jaredm1]

Esp. with MBPs, logic board failures have been an issue over the years - normally due to excessive heat over time (yea another issue that particularly has affected MBPs).

Apple is beginning to treat its $6000 hardware like $1000 iPhones - expecting most people to replace them every 1-3 years.

 

[masteroflondon]

Apple already had whole disk encryption , its called file vault. It was never reliant on the drive being soldered onto the motherboard.

So Apple did NOT give professionals what they wanted, they already had it. What Apple has done is take away all options for expansion and repair, something professional DO want.

They already had whole disk encryption, which I use. And this new system is MUCH more robust, as detailed by someone else earlier in this thread, and I look forward to the improvement.

 

[danckwerts]

Why would anyone rely on Apple or anyone else to recover their data when they can just back it up every day?

 

[Frank Dalton]

Have any of you who are raving about the “robust” encryption this provides considered that whatever Jason Bourne types you think are after your data will just attack your backup drive instead, the one that isn’t protected by this brilliant T2-chip soldered-together-with-SSD “robust” hardware encryption?

 

[sir1963nz]

With all personal files and documents going to iCloud, Dropbox, etc, and all software downloadable, and all music streaming, and all photos in the cloud...there's really no reason to have hardcopy backups anymore.

Oh ?
And what do I do with all the confidential files I am not allowed to store in the cloud (thanks to the US government spying)
What do I do with the service manuals I have on my machine that I carry with me because I am typically not allowed to access the internet via my customers network ?
What do I do about the VMs I have so I can run Windows 95/XP/7 so I can run calibration software on machines (quite apart from the fact that Apple has removed all the ports I need)

Seems to me you should just settle for an iPad, the rest of us need REAL computers for real world needs.
[doublepost=1532342843][/doublepost]

They already had whole disk encryption, which I use. And this new system is MUCH more robust, as detailed by someone else earlier in this thread, and I look forward to the improvement.

So....
If the T2 chip also encrypts your backups, if your laptop dies, your backups die.
If the T2 chip does NOT encrypt your backups you have precisely the same level of protection as you did before.

Nice thing about unencrypted disks, turns out you can do file recovery on them.
I have seen encrypted backups with the password written on the drive "in case they forgot the password"

Encryption may increase security, but it also increases risk.

 

[afunix]

Actually this is great news, despite comments on the forum.
Now even Apple cannot get access to my private data stored having a physical access to a laptop.

 

[theluggage]

Do you see "Pro" in the name of the computer?

Yes. It is a marketing term that means “More expensive (and hopefully more powerful) than the computers without ‘pro’ in the name.”

If it meant “expert” then the range would offer choice to users over what balance they wanted between (say) data recoverability and data security. (Or power vs. thinness, or ‘legacy’ ports vs. orifice-of-the-month).

Experts can decide for themselves whether their work needs full disk encryption with the consequent danger of lockout. Yes, experts take backups - but there is such a thing as “belt and braces” plus we’re talking about laptops here, that may go for hours between backups. If the data is really sensitive then you take the drive, encrypted or not, out of the laptop before it goes for repair.

Its the “grandmas” (your stereotype) who need Apple to second guess their security needs and enforce them (although they can’t do anything about the e-banking password in 48pt type on a bit of paper pinned to the cork board above the desk).

 

[pppx3]

I kinda miss the days when you could pull the P.O.S slow and clunking $400 hard drive out of it's external case (yes, external) and then chuck it into an anti-static bag, shove it in the freezer for about 15 min. Take it out then it would be good to go, long enough to daisy chain it to another drive... grab the data off and spend many hours waiting for the data to transfer to another drive...

 

[tino1970]

Except that Apple has also end-of-lifed time capsule, so things are going to be quite interesting going forward...

Apple's got a plan for that, and how to extract even more money out of your pocket. Fanboys will love it. It will be called iCloud TimeMachine Backups. You will have to buy storage from Apple for a monthly fee.

 

[naturalstar]

Oh goodness, Apple.

Well, it took me one experience years ago with a PC desktop dying with no warning whatsoever to know to backup regularly. I freaked when it happened, thinking all of my work was lost. I was fortunate to learn my data could be recovered, for an additional fee, of course, but it was an option at least. From then on, I didn’t ignore backing up data.

That said, I’m going to ease back and wait before deciding to purchase this year’s MacBook Pro. I have really enjoyed my experience with first MBP, a 2013 15” rMBP. Simply wonderful, not a single issue, and got it for a great deal to boot. I don’t want to invest in another and then find myself going WTF happened? At premium pricing, my expectations are for a premium experience. Fortunately, I’m not in a rush, although I did want it sooner rather than later.

 

[bluecoast]

I really think that this is ok.

It’s good from a security POV.

And if you’re a ‘pro’ you should either be working off files on a cloud service or working off/backing up to an external drive every hour or so. It’s easy to set things up nowadays whatever you decide to do.

 

[maflynn]

I'm late to the party, so we have information that apple removed a way that they used to recover customer's data in the 2016 and 2017 MBPs but that solution has been removed and since apple is not commenting on either people are jumping to conclusions they have no way of doing it?

I'm not sure what's going on, but I think we only have one side of the story and its premature to start yelling the sky is falling ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[mingravity]

People love to whine. How hard is it to make backups for ****s sake? Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you’re too lazy to make and maintain a backup when options like time machine exist and are so easy?

easy there. unless you are doing realtime backups, which is not always possible, anybody can end up in this situation. So please don't write off concerns.
Having said that, we don't know YET if apple has some other way to recover data. Article only says the existing port has been removed.

 

[Shirasaki]

With all personal files and documents going to iCloud, Dropbox, etc, and all software downloadable, and all music streaming, and all photos in the cloud...there's really no reason to have hardcopy backups anymore.

Then if someone just cuts out your Internet connection for a month. Good luck with all your "files".

 

[Val-kyrie]

I like that type of security.

How is this security? How does this protect the user when the logic board is functioning?

Well best factor in a decent sized back up system to your MacBook Pro purchase seeing as they killed of Time Capsules... usual Apple stupidity considering they used to make everything, now they expect the consumer to go elsewhere!
IMO if they pull a stunt like this they should bring back the Time Capsules, because they worked over wireless and were relatively easy to setup.

And restore macOS Server functionality! (one can dream *sigh*)

Except that Apple has also end-of-lifed time capsule, so things are going to be quite interesting going forward...

And deprecated Server.

I'm not surprised. Previously, Apple SSDs were basically just PCIe/NVMe SSDs with a different connector (for example, my cylinder Mac Pro is running a 1tb Samsung 960 Evo using an adapter card meant for Apple laptops that merely remaps the physical pins). Like most other NVMe SSDs, all the SSD controller logic to talk to the NAND chips was on the SSD itself, so all you had to do was connect to the SSD to access it.

Now instead, and like in the iMac Pro, all the SSD controller logic is in the T2 chip, which talks directly to and manages the raw NAND chips themselves instead of through a third-party controller. So unless the T2 is powered up and functional, you can't access the SSDs, because the T2 is the controller.

Apple has the fastest SSD speeds in the industry, so has Apple traded stability/recovery for speed?

Apple introduces a feature on Macs which is very similar to iOS, and MacRumors forum users still manage to scream and cry.

Just like you don’t have to physically back up iOS devices (you can use iCloud Backup), you don’t have to physically back up Macs (you can use third-party solutions like Backblaze). Better yet would be if Apple had a first-party solution for proper cloud backups on macOS. Of course, they already have Desktop & Documents in iCloud Drive, but that’s obviously just part of the story.

It’d be nice if they would expand the iCloud storage tiers and bring iCloud Backup to macOS. It’d be even nicer if they brought automated Time Machine backups to iCloud. (With, of course, the option to create physical Time Machine backups whenever possible in addition to iCloud backups.)

Please forgive the nuance.

iCloud is nice.... when it works. I have had too many errors accessing files from my iCloud account to rely on it for any files I need to reliably access.

 

[decsramble]

Customer: Battery life is worse
Apple: But it's thinner.
Customer: All the useful ports are gone.
Apple: But it's thinner.
Customer: The Keyboard doesnt work.
Apple: But it's thinner.
Customer: It overheats.
Apple: But it's thinner.
Customer: My data is gone
Apple: But it's thinner.
Customer: Your profits are going to take a hit.
Apple: But they're bigger.

 

[0095059]

Esp. with MBPs, logic board failures have been an issue over the years - normally due to excessive heat over time (yea another issue that particularly has affected MBPs).

Apple is beginning to treat its $6000 hardware like $1000 iPhones - expecting most people to replace them every 1-3 years.

I think our hyper-dependence on hardware being upgradable is because software developers are lazy. We want the fastest CPU because the OS breaks everything, every year. This includes every OS ever made. I’ve never installed an OS that made my old hardware faster.

The Sony PS2 had 32 MB of memory and a 300 MHz processor.

I don’t see many games on iOS that look like Kingdom Hearts or GTA III.

Maybe the consequence of disposable $6,000 machines is forcing better quality software.

 

[seadragon]

A port to pull data from a failed logic board. Hmmm... I guess I can't miss what I had no idea existed in the first place!

I would never have thought to rely on Apple to recover data from a machine. But I suppose that I'm old school in my thinking that data and data backups are solely the user's responsibility.

 

[Sam_S]

People love to whine. How hard is it to make backups for ****s sake? Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you’re too lazy to make and maintain a backup when options like time machine exist and are so easy?

Or they could just have removable storage instead of over complicating everything...

 

[ocnitsa]

Redundancy is a good thing. Yes, you should back up your data. Different users are better or worse at that. For some, data loss means job loss. For others, it means rewriting a 10 page paper. Just because you back up your data via 50 methods and in different locations (doing hourly encrypted backups on thumbdrives you mail via secure courier to safety deposit boxes at Fort Knox) doesn't mean that everyone else is stupid because they don't do the same thing. I pretty much use the iCloud desktop to save my stuff (because it's convenient to move from device to device and still have access to it). For the majority of users, it's important that Apple products "just work." The vast majority of my students at the university don't effectively backup in each and every situation...and for them data loss can happen at just about any moment. Usually, it's of the variety "I've lost (X number) of assignments I've been working on for (X number) of classes." While recovering data from a hard drive isn't a solution we should count on, for many users it's one that they are left with. Traditionally, this has always been an option (not to actually recover it, but to have the opportunity to try, if you needed). If Apple is moving away from this, the tradeoff better be better than security OR a solution should be in place that protects the majority of users from themselves. Those who've mentioned that it would be a nice thing if Apple had encrypted iCloud backup plans (ala Time Machine) built into Mac ownership are right...for the majority of users, this "just works."

Honestly, though...while I can see the value of security, I think what is likely to happen is that there will be many used devices permalocked and ready for landfills due to these moves.

 

[theluggage]

But if a Logic Board failure were to occur and no Backups had been made it would be the consumer equally at fault.

This isn't about "fault". Mistakes happen. Backups fail. Laptops get used "on the road" without backing up.

This is about losing a whole layer of redundancy. This is about unnecessarily having to re-build from a backup after a mainboard replacement when you could have just swapped the drive. Its about losing one hour/one day/whatever work when you could have saved everything. Its about not being able to physically remove your data from the machine before sending it off for repair (which you may be legally/contractually obliged to do even if it doesn't make sense).

 

[Shirasaki]

Calm down. This was clearly done to PROTECT the data. The old way sounds too easy for someone to use that connector as a method of stealing data more easily.

If you don’t back up your data, it’s your fault.

You will only find you lose all your data after precisely three years because Apple's computer will likely fail at that time. Just kidding. But a poorly designed logic board with poor cooling system also poses great threat to your personal data.

 

[0095059]

An example of lazy programming is ignoring the Big O notation.

for b in a {
for c in b {
for d in c {
if d == y {

Each for statement multiplies the calculation by n where n is the number of times it has to loop.

It might run fast on a 6-Core 3.2 GHz processor, but crawls on a 2-Core 1.5 GHz processor.

That code works, but it’s lazy and there’s probably a better way to do it.

Because the PS2 had one CPU variation, you were forced to write better code to make it run smoothly.

The easiest way to do that for Macs is to target the worst computer supported by macOS Mojave. But that is a pain to QA, so developers wind up optimizing for 2018 Macs.