Apple Seemingly Unable to Recover Data From 2018 MacBook Pro With Touch Bar When Logic Board Fails

[TimmeyCook]

That's what happens when you solder everything. Everyone involved with the idea of the soldered donglebook, including those who bought it, deserve this. NO SYMPATHY when there's been so much backlash against the recent MacBooks.

You made your bed, now sleep in it

Yes, because full disk encryption via hardware = soldering.

It’s clearly not for you.

I’m happy with this, means that it’s working.

 

[DenisValcke]

Funny how many people here are pointing towards the customer not taking back-ups as being the problem. The problem here is that, in case your logic board fails, there is no way to recover data which isn't backed up (yet). If your computer has a removable hard drive there is no issue but if the manufacturer insists on soldering everything directly onto the logic board then they should also provide an option to recover data. Plain and simple. You simply cannot point the finger towards the customer for something like this.

Every time something like this comes by on this forum, I'm surprised at how much **** some people are willing to take from Apple. They are just a electronics manufacturer like all the others, the only thing they want is to make as much profit as fast as they can. Anyone saying different is delusional and should get a grip. Mac was the top-device for power-users and now it's slowly losing that position because Apple has shifted its focus, it is what it is but there's simply more money to be made elsewhere...

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edit: Everything I do is backed up to somewhere, be it on Google drive or in a git repository but if my computer has a defect logic board I see it as good customer service that my device gets repaired and is returned to me exactly as it was when it comes to my settings and files. I don't want to bother with having to set up everything again just because my hardware was faulty.
---

 

[sir1963nz]

Upgrading a Mac, any Mac, is very simple. Step one : Time Machine backup. Step two: Advertise it on eBay.

Only a bloody idiot would throw a Mac away. But you knew that, didn’t you?

My 2011 MBP, well I upgraded the RAM first, and then a couple of years later I installed an SSD, and I replaced the battery in it once too.

YOU may be able to waste money on each sale and then pay more for each upgrade , the rest of humanity can't.
Given Apples huge markups for RAM and SSD storage I would have been out of pocket the price of a new laptop.

Upgrade, Repair are the 2 best options. Both options effectively denied by Apple, the first because it is impossible, the 2nd because its too expensive.

I tell you what, if Apple were forced to give 10 year warranties, the price might rise a little, but what would happen first is that they would suddenly be engineered to be upgradeable and repairable. The circuit boards would be modular so you could replace the power supply, video, cpu, memory, keyboard, battery, wifi, bluetooth, SSD, etc all individually.

Apple has engineered their product to be wasteful , to be throw away, to be unrepairable. THAT is a deliberate engineered choice by Apple.

snapping and recycling is the LAST option, it should NEVER be the only option. We MUST be able to upgrade and repair.

 

[HacKage]

Lost data is fact of digital life. That's why we have Time Machine. This isn't much difference from a failed hard disk that can't be recovered from.

The issue here is multiple things. If the MLB dies, you now no longer have access to your data, but worse than that, if your SSD was working fine but the board dies, you need to pay for a replacement MLB with SSD attached. The storage pricing on the 2018 MBP has already been scoffed at and been the butt of jokes, but in the instance of an MLB failure, do you really want to have to fork out $$$$$ to replace the already expensive, non faulty SSD?

Also if the T2 controller or SSD fail, should you really have to pay for absolutely everything else just for one small component. This is just forcing people into buying AppleCare, but I'd rather buy the machine direct from Apple sans-AppleCare and go down the Consumer Law route in the UK in the event of any issues. If Apple want to go about make non consumer friendly decisions, then you bet I'll be exercising all the rights I have to hurt them in any way I can.

 

[Heineken]

So many philosophical theories...

 

[sir1963nz]

Yes, because full disk encryption via hardware = soldering.

It’s clearly no for you.

I’m happy with this, means that it’s working.

There was full disk encryption long before the SSDs were ever soldered onto the motherboard.

Now what people are doing is also having an unencrypted backup because no matter what goes wrong you data is lost. My HD is backed up, but it was also never encrypted , and even if it was, the encryption was based on a password I gave so the drive could STILL be removed, fitted into another machine and be used, with that password.

 

[Shirasaki]

At least the glass screen and case is recyclable even if the components aren't. Perhaps that's all they care about.

If so, Apple's stance on "environmental protection" is questionable.

 

[neuropsychguy]

If only Time Machine backups wouldn't fail so often or get corrupted requiring starting from scratch.

My experience hadn't been your experience. I've never had a failed or corrupted TM backup in more than 9 years of using TM on at least 6 different Macs.

 

[0095059]

Actual professionals back up all data.

Actual professionals want their data under lock and key in the event something bad happens, especially theft, where we worry about our livelihoods and the value of our work, for some being worth millions.

It looks like Apple took a step in the right direction for the proper demographic.

That is a correct statement. Professionals back up their work.

However, logic board failure is probably the only real argument for modular disk space by law.

Personally, I’m less interested in data recovery and more interested in all of the eWaste from 16 GB iPads and 128 GB SSDs / 8 GB RAM Macs.

Technically, those devices operate fine and allow you to utilize the OS. But it’s a planned obsolescence for components that are otherwise in working order.

Examples:

- Retina Screens
- Aliminum Shells
- Lightning Ports
- Home buttons
- Cameras

 

[adib]

Plus one for privacy. Now FBI can’t force Apple to unlock a laptop.

 

[TimmeyCook]

Funny how many people here are pointing towards the customer not taking back-ups as being the problem. The problem here is that, in case your logic board fails, there is no way to recover data which isn't backed up (yet). If your computer has a removable hard drive there is no issue but if the manufacturer insists on soldering everything directly onto the logic board then they should also provide an option to recover data. Plain and simple. You simply cannot point the finger towards the customer for something like this.

Another one that doesn't know what he is talking about.

Doesn't matter if you can take it or not.

That's the point of hardware full disk encryption.
[doublepost=1532338449][/doublepost]

Actual professionals back up all data.

Actual professionals want their data under lock and key in the event something bad happens, especially theft, where we worry about our livelihoods and the value of our work, for some being worth millions.

It looks like Apple took a step in the right direction for the proper demographic.

This.

But of course, the ones who use their computers as "facebook machines" will come to complain that "Apple is not doing what the pros want".

 

[haruhiko]

Another one that doesn't know what he is talking about.

Doesn't matter if you can take it or not.

That's the point of hardware full disk encryption.
[doublepost=1532338449][/doublepost]

This.

But of course, the ones who use their computers as "facebook machines" will come to complain that "Apple is not doing what the pros want".

The Pro moniker often makes some people feel special. Therefore if anything makes their computer sounds less Pro, they would be angry

 

[theluggage]

Apple doesn't have to engineer a special port. Just have the failsafe non soldered SSD. That way when the mac fails, we can have quick access to the data without having to do a full restore. For some of us, time is money.

You didn’t get the memo: they haven’t just soldered the SSD onto the main board, they’ve incorporated the SSD controller and “hardware” encryption into the T2 chip, along with a bunch of other functionality. The only way of decoding the data is to boot up and “unlock” the machine. If the T2 is dead, along with the encryption keys in its “Secure Enclave” then the data on the SSD is dead too.

Question is, did you ask for that level of security?

 

[TimmeyCook]

You didn’t get the memo: they haven’t just soldered the SSD onto the main board, they’ve incorporated the SSD controller and “hardware” encryption into the T2 chip, along with a bunch of other functionality. The only way of decoding the data is to boot up and “unlock” the machine. If the T2 is dead, along with the encryption keys in its “Secure Enclave” then the data on the SSD is dead too.

That's EXACTLY like how it works on the iPhone.

And on many Android devices (like Samsung or Pixel).

Question is, did you ask for that level of security?

Do you see "Pro" in the name of the computer?

That's not for grandmas who don't backup their data and don't even have a remote source (git, Adobe Cloud, Microsoft 365, iCloud, Google Drive, etc.)

 

[donlab]

Given the reliance on time machine, Apple should consider selling a router that allows you to do wireless backups. How convenient would that be!

/s ?

 

[sir1963nz]

Actually, you turn it in and they recycle the whole thing, and support the machine for many MANY years. I still have a 2008 iMac running on my mother's desk right now that works just fine. I don't get why people complain about this. You know what you're getting with Apple and this pattern is NOT new, and you also know that your machine doesn't magically stop working when a new processor hits the market.

The GPU in my 2011 MBP has gone, it is considered unrepairable.
Now I used daily, the ethernet, USB A, Audio out.
I used most months the Thunderbolt 2 and FW800 and the display port

No Apple product gives me this unless I buy a box full of dongles on top of Apples already high prices. I guess its worth pointing out how unreliable Dongles are (Yes Apples ones).

If I need more RAM the only solution... BUY a new laptop
If I need a bigger SSD the only solution... BUY a new laptop
Battery needs replacing... BUY a new laptop

Now I have my TRS-80 from the mid 1980's, it still works too, better yet I can repair it , I have the service manual for it, circuit diagrams, timing diagrams, functional descriptions , test points.

This pattern IS new. EVERY Mac I have owned since my Mac+ I have upgraded the RAM and upgraded the storage, I even upgraded the CPU in the LC475 to a full 68040 with the built in maths co-processor. I have replaced faulty DIMM modules, fitted ethernet cards, replaced batteries, even swapped boards from one Macbook with a dead display to one with a dead motherboard. And I am not alone, thousands of people did this.

These are the first Macs which can not be upgraded, can not be repaired and your only choice is to give Apple thousands more for a new machine.

Apple has made deliberate engineering choices that leave replacement the ONLY choice. These are not choices forced on Apple, these are choices Apple has forced onto its users and customers. The i9 MBP throttles so much because of its piss poor thermal design that its slower than a 3 year old machine in real world test even though it costs thousands of $$ more. Some ******* put the headphone socket at the rear on the RHS, headphones have the cable on the LHS.

I currently have 8 Macs at home. As they die they will be replaced with Linux boxes.
Sure a learning curve for me, but then again I have to anyway. Apple has/is deprecating so much functionality in OSX server I was needing to replace my 3 Mac minis running as servers with Linux boxes anyway.

I am hopping off the bus.

And it s not just Apple that looses, its Microsoft, Adobe, Barebones, Alsoft and the dozens of other companies I have bought software from. I already have more KODI boxes than ATVs, and my next phone is likely to be an Android phone. Because of Apples piss poor support in NZ for iTunes (Hell the ATV4 is still the only Apple product being sold that does not support Siri !) I don't really have any music/videos bought off the store, I have hundreds of CDs and DVDs all of which work fine without Apple.

And remember, there is no Tim this time to save the company.

So am I pissed at Apple, YES I AM, I am a scientific instrument service engineer, I deal with and see engineering choices and trade offs every day, so I KNOW all of the issues I have with Apple are deliberate choices, bad choices. I KNOW about repairability and how engineering choices can be made to make this cheaper and easier, I KNOW about thermal dissipation , and system upgrades.

 

[Timur]

I like that type of security.

Soldered SSDs mean that once the logic board fails you are unable to wipe the SSD of your data. You will then likely handover your precious data to Apple where they will try to fix the logic board for resale, including the data on your former SSD. They may erase it or they may not.

Of course this can also happen with a dedicated SSD once the controller fails, but that is at least somewhat easy to repair (get a replacement controller board).

 

[dantroline]

Actual professionals back up all data.

Actual professionals want their data under lock and key in the event something bad happens, especially theft, where we worry about our livelihoods and the value of our work, for some being worth millions.

It looks like Apple took a step in the right direction for the proper demographic.

That's a bit discriminatory. If a person parts with their money to buy the computer then that is Apple's market and they need to cope with that. I am pretty sure professionals would appreciate the gesture by Apple to provide a cloud backup solution equal to the hard drive space of the device, at least for the top tier models as a bonus.

 

[Trusteft]

No, none of that is necessary or effective.

The solution is super easy. Purchase a laptop that meets your needs from a different manufacturer and reward them with your currency. If enough people feel the same way and take the same action, Apple will get the message.

We all have to make choices in life. Purchasing a laptop that works best for you is just one of the many.

Will you stand up and take action?

All other laptops are only compatible with Windows 10. I am not installing that big brother crap.
Linux is not useful for what I want.
macOS is the only option.
Not getting a laptop and getting a different mac is a solution.

 

[masteroflondon]

The Pro moniker often makes some people feel special. Therefore if anything makes their computer sounds less Pro, they would be angry

Another one that doesn't know what he is talking about.

Doesn't matter if you can take it or not.

That's the point of hardware full disk encryption.
[doublepost=1532338449][/doublepost]

This.

But of course, the ones who use their computers as "facebook machines" will come to complain that "Apple is not doing what the pros want".

This thread, more than any other, shows that the majority of people complaining here about what they need from a pro machine are not pro's.
The idea that a Pro wants a solution for the very specific problem of logic board failure but utterly fails to cover theft, loss or SSD failure, is nonsense.
You must weigh the cost of data loss against the likelihood of such loss and provide a solution to fit. If you CANNOT afford to lost data to logic board failures then you CANNOT afford to lost it to SSD failure or theft. You must find a solution to BOTH. Your solution may even have to include not being somewhere where backups are not viable. It might be nice to do work in the jungle or under the ocean, but technology might not yet allow it with all the safety we normally enjoy, and your choice to work away from backup is a decision with risks.

 

[donlab]

Soldered on SSDs mean that once the logic board fails you are unable to wipe the SSD of your data. You will then likely handover your precious data to Apple where they will try to fix the logic board for resale, including the data on your former SSD. They may erase it or they may not.

Of course this can also happen with a dedicated SSD once the controller fails, but that is at least somewhat easy to repair (get a replacement controller board).

Enable file vault then no issue.

 

[Timur]

The GPU in my 2011 MBP has gone, it is considered unrepairable.

I few years ago I had the GPU of my 2011 MBP replaced by a third party repair center that was not affiliated with or certified by Apple in any way. Seemingly those GPU chips can be bought separately and then be soldered to the board. Apple's bad application of thermal paste lead to the old chip getting too hot which also caused some minor damage to the logic board. After the repair new thermal paste was applied properly and I am still using the 2011 MBP.

 

[jeremiah256]

Bless me, MacRumors, for I have sinned. It’s been four weeks since my last Time Machine backup. I know my important files are already stored in the cloud, but that’s no excuse for not having a local backup.

And thank you for finally providing a definition of ‘Pro’ that both macOS and iOS users can agree on: someone who backs up their work. Jobs be his name, amen.

 

[iGobbleoff]

They’re a sales company. They’ll do what they can to continue ongoing sales and then some. They don’t want people to keep using almost 10 year old Mac’s, they want them to replace them every year or two or three.

With this, it’s leaning more towards the hardware becoming a device like the iPhone. Locked into a case, non upgradeable, with a need to be fully replaced if you want something more like a bigger hard drive or ram.

I personally think it’s not right. It’s a computer. Let people at least upgrade the things that can be upgraded. I’ve been an Apple fan for years, but this makes me question the direction they’re heading.

 

[alexgowers]

Why Apple can’t just use m.2 drive slots is beyond me. The drive speed might be slower but it’s not too big and allows for upgrades.

It’s not up to Apple to backup data so I don’t blame them for soldering chips but soldering a chip to a board that is removeable isn’t ANY different and gives consumers choice. We know Apple doesn’t like that, they even lock down the choice of who can repair your laptop too.

I’ve grown very tired of Apple despite being a champion for them in the past I find it impossible to recommend anything they currently make. The anti consumer tactics really grind on me and they should annoy you too.