Yes.
And they don't need to design/engineer one. They could have kept using the one they had.
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Apple Seemingly Unable to Recover Data From 2018 MacBook Pro With Touch Bar When Logic Board Fails
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Yes.
And they don't need to design/engineer one. They could have kept using the one they had.
Backup is now more important than ever. Now that there are 4TB MBPs a lot of tears will be shed by people that lose years worth of work at once. Anyone buying a system with one of these massive drives better have a multi layer backup strategy in place.
[doublepost=1532385882][/doublepost]Just receive my 2017 MacBook Pro back from service. It took 10 days for them to repair the keyboard issue. While at it, they also replaced the logic board. No data was saved. Then they installed a version of Mac OS Sierra, while the letter said that they did install a fresh copy of the latest operating system.
In 2016, when Apple introduced the first MacBook Pro with Touch Bar models, the repair experts at iFixit discovered the notebooks have non-removable SSDs, soldered to the logic board, prompting concerns that data recovery would not be possible if the logic board failed. Fortunately, that wasn't the case.
Apple has a special tool for 2016 and 2017 models of the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar that allows Genius Bars and Apple Authorized Service Providers to recover user data when the logic board fails, but the SSD is still intact.
The tool is essentially a little black box that is able to transfer data from a failed logic board to a functioning MacBook Pro. The box has a flex cable that connects to a data recovery port on the failed logic board, while the box and a functioning MacBook Pro are connected via USB-C to USB-C cable.
Apple's internal Customer Data Migration Tool
Once the logic board is placed into a special holder, and all cables are connected, technicians simply power on the functioning MacBook Pro, open Migration Assistant, and proceed with the standard steps for data transfer.
Customer Data Migration Tool connector on 2016 MacBook Pro logic board
An internal ATLAS training video for the Customer Data Migration Tool was recently leaked on YouTube:
While not fail-proof, the tool is a convenient, last-ditch option for data recovery when a MacBook Pro's logic board goes kaput. But, unfortunately, it appears the tool will not work with the latest models.
Last week, iFixit completed a teardown of the 2018 MacBook Pro, discovering that Apple has removed the data recovery connector from the logic board on both 13-inch and 15-inch models with the Touch Bar, suggesting that the Customer Data Migration Tool can no longer be connected.
MacRumors contacted multiple reliable sources at Apple Authorized Service Providers to learn more, and based on the information we obtained, it does appear that the tool is incompatible with 2018 MacBook Pro with Touch Bar models.
Multiple sources claim that data cannot be recovered if the logic board has failed on a 2018 MacBook Pro. If the notebook is still functioning, data can be transferred to another Mac by booting the system in Target Disk Mode, and using Migration Assistant, which is the standard process that relies on Thunderbolt 3 ports.
The data recovery port was likely removed because 2018 MacBook Pro models feature Apple's custom T2 chip, which provides hardware encryption for the SSD storage, like the iMac Pro, our sources said.
Apple's internal 2018 MacBook Pro Service Readiness Guide, obtained by MacRumors, advises technicians to encourage customers to back up to Time Machine frequently, and we highly recommend following this advice, as it now appears to be the only way to preserve your data in the rare event your MacBook Pro fails.
MacRumors also confirmed that Apple's internal document for its Customer Data Migration Tool has not been updated to reflect use with the 2018 MacBook Pro, and nothing else we've seen outlines any alternative solutions.
While it appears Apple itself is unable to recover data from failed 2018 MacBook Pros, the Service Readiness Guide does state that customers can consult with data recovery specialist companies, such as DriveSavers, Knoll, Seagate, and Payam, but it's unclear how they might be able to help.
We've reached out to Apple for clarification. If we receive any information, we'll update this article accordingly.
Article Link: Apple Seemingly Unable to Recover Data From 2018 MacBook Pro With Touch Bar When Logic Board Fails
Apple service is below zero. The machines are not well made. Bad combination. But at least, they look fancy. Probably the only thing the dudes at Apple care for these days.
Just put the option for hardware disk encryption in System Preferences -> Security -> File Vault where it already exists and a warning when you turn it on that the disk will be unrecoverable in the event of a logic board failure. That's really all it takes. A simple courtesy to to the user to decide for themselves what they want and how much they care. That said it should be off by default. And while they are at it give the user the option of backing up the encryption key to their iCloud account.
Which desktop environment have you come to prefer in your Linux explorations?
Most everyone is complaining about this, but I'm curious how many have had to take advantage of this capability? Anyone?
Not too long ago, someone gave me a dead MacBook Pro 8,1(13" early 2011).
The LoBo is dead, which is actually quite a rare failure mode for this module. In "exchange" for the dead computer, I pulled their HDD, put it in an external enclosure, and handed it to the owner. He has all of his stuff back-music, documents, pics of his daughter-and I have a good body I can build an MBP 9,2 out of. Those days, of course, are long gone.
Folks are saying that there are backup solutions, and that's true. When I was finishing up my master's degree, in addition to hourly time machine back-ups when I had my external HDD connected, I saved everything to Drop Box and even burned daily CDs that I stuck in my safety deposit box. Yes, the last one is overkill, but you can't be too safe-they laughed at the bank when I went into my box after graduation, pulled out a cake platter full of CDs, and dropped it in the trash
.
Still, accidents happen. I have a good friend who is in "crunch time" now and defending her dissertation in a week. She keeps a flash drive plugged in to it and saves her work both on the computer and on the flash drive pretty much every time she writes or changes a paragraph(or inserts a figure or whatever). Last week, she THOUGHT that her MBA had died, and unfortunately it was on a day when she hadn't brought her flash drive with her. Fortunately, it was fine but I got her signed up for Dropbox that day so now she has a local copy, flash drive copy, and cloud copy. Losing even ~8 hours of work would have been devastating.
The fact that there's no possibility of recovery really disturbs me. Let's face it-a laptop is NOT a phone, and there are times when it's "off the grid." I have a bus powered drive I use for Time Machine, but just like carrying a bag full of dongles having to cart it all the time kind of defeats the purposes of a "smaller and lighter" laptop...
The LoBo is dead, which is actually quite a rare failure mode for this module. In "exchange" for the dead computer, I pulled their HDD, put it in an external enclosure, and handed it to the owner. He has all of his stuff back-music, documents, pics of his daughter-and I have a good body I can build an MBP 9,2 out of. Those days, of course, are long gone.
Folks are saying that there are backup solutions, and that's true. When I was finishing up my master's degree, in addition to hourly time machine back-ups when I had my external HDD connected, I saved everything to Drop Box and even burned daily CDs that I stuck in my safety deposit box. Yes, the last one is overkill, but you can't be too safe-they laughed at the bank when I went into my box after graduation, pulled out a cake platter full of CDs, and dropped it in the trash
. Still, accidents happen. I have a good friend who is in "crunch time" now and defending her dissertation in a week. She keeps a flash drive plugged in to it and saves her work both on the computer and on the flash drive pretty much every time she writes or changes a paragraph(or inserts a figure or whatever). Last week, she THOUGHT that her MBA had died, and unfortunately it was on a day when she hadn't brought her flash drive with her. Fortunately, it was fine but I got her signed up for Dropbox that day so now she has a local copy, flash drive copy, and cloud copy. Losing even ~8 hours of work would have been devastating.
The fact that there's no possibility of recovery really disturbs me. Let's face it-a laptop is NOT a phone, and there are times when it's "off the grid." I have a bus powered drive I use for Time Machine, but just like carrying a bag full of dongles having to cart it all the time kind of defeats the purposes of a "smaller and lighter" laptop...
Two weeks ago. Used Time Machine to move from my older MBP (Mid 2010) to my MBP (Late 2013)
Totally understand what you’re saying and where youre coming from. My post was merely sarcastic hence the /s at the end of my stupid post.
There are plenty of times when phones are off the grid too.
So, you are really concerned about using you laptop off the grid when you might lose data due to a component failure on the logic board, but not worried about loss of data due to flash chip failure or flash controller failure or OS data corruption failure? Only component failure is so likely and important as to need constant backup for protection?
Remember, having the data port is worthless for the average user because the hardware encrypted data can’t be used even if copied, but having a copy of the data can be very useful for the determined attacker who finds it worthwhile to spend lots of time and hardware on cracking the encryption which is only possible if they can copy the data off.
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It certainly is, and we’ve had hard drives removed from desktop PCs at night and stolen away. Fortunately we use full disk encryption and they’re likely just after some quick cash and not data, but it would certainly be preferable in a portable device if there was more security.
Does this mean that a replaceable SSD using full disk encryption like FileVault would provide better data protection if the drive were stolen? So the 2016/2017 soldered SSD was actually a step backwards?
That's what happens when you solder everything. Everyone involved with the idea of the soldered donglebook, including those who bought it, deserve this. NO SYMPATHY when there's been so much backlash against the recent MacBooks.
You made your bed, now sleep in it
Soldering doesn't matter in this case, because the drives are encrypted with the T2 chip's Secure Enclave. I suspect there is just a different recovery process/hardware because of that, although I'll be surprised if its not identical to whatever process exists in the iMac Pro.
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If it's FileVault, it's FileVault. This hardware tool and target disk mode both expose an encrypted volume.
You do not need a Time Capsule to backup wirelessly with Time Machine. Many third-party routers support it and most consumer NASes do too.
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He never said it and he never wrote it.
Of course, it is no surprise that you are spreading wrong info around.
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Stop apologising for users.
It has never been the manufacturer of the machine's responsibility to provide recovery of data. It is your responsibility and has always been so.
Do you believe Apple as a legal requirement do to this?
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Backup and restore have always been the user's responsibility.
Yes, you can loose data, but have you considered that in many cases you can just create it?
Lets say it is two hours since your last backup. You have been working in a spreadsheet and then your logic board fails. What do you do?
1) Send it in to Apple, wait several days for them to recover and get the data to you. And maybe even have to pay them.
2) Restore from the last backup on a spare machine or a new machine, and just recreate the work.
Good post. However, backup now becomes a weak link of the entire information safety, because not many customer portable storage devices support said robust encryption. Even if they have, cross-platform compatibility is a headache to deal with. Attackers, instead of extracting data from internal SSD, will focus on attacking backup media. I would love to see options to keep backup media secure and easily accessible.
Not everybody can make a backup every second they use their computer.
Time machine works once an hour when you bother to plug the thing in. So by this poster's logic, you'd better have your MBP docked to your desk most of the time so it makes backups at least once a day. Don't forget that both disks are in the same location and running while you do this, and an electrical fault or a fire could kill them both.
I sincerely hope that losing 1/2 a day of precious data will offer you some broader perspective in this.
In your perspective, car manufacturers might as well stop offering brakes, as pedestrians are not supposed to be on motorways anyway.
Apple'd better axe the overambitious guy who wanted to save a few bucks on CPU sockets for a $4000+ Pro-device (and the other idiot that decided to save a few millions on TimeCapsule for a multibillion company...)
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And other people love to make excuses for Apple's incompetent and unnecessarily fragile engineering. There are a million different reasons why someone might create something incredibly valuable on a laptop in a few hours, and then have the computer die before they have a chance to make a complete backup of the data. Making full backups takes time, even with fast drives. Even a Time Machine backup can be an hour behind, and that's if you've been constantly connected to a network with a Time Machine NAS available.
Oh, and backups fail too. Including Time Machine backups. I've had several fail.
There is no defensible reason for soldering the storage and making it unrecoverable due to unrelated failures of the computer. It's not a valid way of keeping the data from being stolen, that's what encryption is for.
What makes all this so much worse is how Apple has tied so many different systems together in their recent laptops. Virtually any part of the logic board can make the entire system fail and lead to unrecoverable data. Including the Touch Bar circuitry. Watch a few dozen of Louis Rossmann's videos where he traces down the ridiculously common and simple problems that kill MacBooks.
The only way you can justify defending Apple's current portable design is by being completely ignorant of just how pointlessly fragile and single-point-of-failure they have become.
Ah. Like verifying usage data to conclude you actually don't need seatbelts on airflights ?
Running Mint and MX as my most reliable LTS distros (Ubuntu/Debian based); running Arcolinux rolling release (Arch based) for exploring.
Wow.
I'm not sure why anyone would trust their data to one of these machines. Your entire installation could literally evaporate at any moment. Apple's newer laptops are already notorious for encountering various failures, and now even a single one of those failures can take out your data too.
If they were smart, they would have designated one of the TB ports as a "diagnostics port" that could be used to inject power into the system and bootup the T2 chip in a recovery mode independently from the rest of the logic board. From there, it should be possible to recover the data from the SSD since you shouldn't need to fully boot the machine to access it when the T2 already has full access.
The fact Apple didn't design their machine to accommodate this only highlights their growing contempt towards their user base and overall arrogance when it comes to hardware maintainability and servicing.
-SC
I'm not sure why anyone would trust their data to one of these machines. Your entire installation could literally evaporate at any moment. Apple's newer laptops are already notorious for encountering various failures, and now even a single one of those failures can take out your data too.
If they were smart, they would have designated one of the TB ports as a "diagnostics port" that could be used to inject power into the system and bootup the T2 chip in a recovery mode independently from the rest of the logic board. From there, it should be possible to recover the data from the SSD since you shouldn't need to fully boot the machine to access it when the T2 already has full access.
The fact Apple didn't design their machine to accommodate this only highlights their growing contempt towards their user base and overall arrogance when it comes to hardware maintainability and servicing.
-SC
It really leads me to believe that Apple ultimately wants to merge the Mac line and MacOS with iOS mobile devices. They all become non-repairable/non-upgradable throw-away devices. The only cure for a broken or underpowered device is to buy a new one. Another article on this forum this morning concerns a new Apple store opening in Milan. In one of the photos of the store's interior, there is absolutely no product in sight other than Apple Watch bands. I get it that the photo was taken some days before the store is to open, but wouldn't even the Apple marketing folks think that long time Apple customers would notice the absence of anything but watch bands showing on the floor? No Macs, no iPhones, no iPads to be seen.
I love the MacOS, but whenever I use my MBPro 15 from 2016... the battery life is awful... I'll barely get 3 to 4 hours, and we're just talking web, emails, and maybe office applications. The butterfly keyboard is alright, but the shallow depth of travel means it gets tiring to type for an extended period of time. I have dongles hanging around. And it would be nice if a few basic things were upgradeable (RAM, storage).
... and yes, I back up regularly, but there have been instances where the backup was imperfect, or for some reason, it just failed.
I love the Apple aesthetic, but I think the goal of achieving thinness is now sacrificing basic functionality.
I'll might end up switching to Lenovo's ThinkPad line up. Windows 10 is good enough these days. Ah well...
... and yes, I back up regularly, but there have been instances where the backup was imperfect, or for some reason, it just failed.
I love the Apple aesthetic, but I think the goal of achieving thinness is now sacrificing basic functionality.
I'll might end up switching to Lenovo's ThinkPad line up. Windows 10 is good enough these days. Ah well...