Apple Seemingly Unable to Recover Data From 2018 MacBook Pro With Touch Bar When Logic Board Fails

[faded_glory]

The very best (it is Apple after all) of Corporate double speak - the greener they get, the more likely you are to have to throw old products away. (How long, I wonder, before you are obliged to give old machines back to Apple when you buy a new one, making the purchase price a de facto rental fee?)

 

[Martius]

I 100% agree that everyone should know how to backup and create backups as much as you can. I use iCloud, Drobpox, Time Machine (and the code I have written is always stored at some git online service).

BUT!

The unabilty to do data recovery is an information that people should know before they buy this laptop, simply because almost every single computer that was sold until today has not this kind of "problem" and people should be aware of it in the first place. I teach my girlfriend to backup every single important file (she uses Windows), she knows how to do it, but she just doesn't have that weird pro user feeling that forces you to backup as much as you can. And a lot of casual users have not learned this backup routine. But a lot of casual users (I know) use MBP and someday they might buy this new laptop (and I expect that future MB will also have the T2 chip). The lack of communication from Apple is inexcusable. They are silent about everything that could put Apple into bad light and that is where I see the problem.

And of course – they discontinued their Time Capsule, which I still don't understand. Was it really that expensive to keep it fresh with larger hard drives or what?

 

[Trusteft]

The insanity has to stop. The as thin as possible and as user unfriendly as possible has to stop. I don't know if it will have to take court action or perhaps Tim will one day wake up and realize the stupidity of the thing, but it has to stop.

 

[citysnaps]

The insanity has to stop. The as thin as possible and as user unfriendly as possible has to stop. I don't know if it will have to take court action or perhaps Tim will one day wake up and realize the stupidity of the thing, but it has to stop.

No, none of that is necessary or effective.

The solution is super easy. Purchase a laptop that meets your needs from a different manufacturer and reward them with your currency. If enough people feel the same way and take the same action, Apple will get the message.

We all have to make choices in life. Purchasing a laptop that works best for you is just one of the many.

Will you stand up and take action?

 

[Steve.P.JobsFan]

People love to whine. How hard is it to make backups for ****s sake? Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you’re too lazy to make and maintain a backup when options like time machine exist and are so easy? Come on whiners.

Are you serious? Please tell me you're trolling right now.

Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you’re too lazy to make and maintain a backup when options like time machine exist and are so easy? Come on whiners.

No, Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you don't have a backup... because Apple are the ones who decided it would be a fan-freakin'-tastic idea to solder the SSD onto the logic board while giving a big, shiny iFinger to the consumer. Buy an XPS 15 or any other machine that competes with the MacBook, and it has a consumer-friendly, removable SATA, NVMe, or M.2 SSD. You can rip the drive out and slap it into another machine to get your data or put it into an external enclosure.

Oh, you have a MacBook? We decided to solder the drive to the board so you have to pay us or an AASP an exorbitant fee to retrieve your data. But at least it's thinner and lighter!

Oh, you have a 2018 MacBook? We decided to have the courage to make it incompatible with the only method of retrieving your data, so that new important file you created between your last backup and bringing it in for repair is gone for good. But at least the (defective) keyboard is quieter!

You should be ashamed of trying to defend Apple's viewpoint - one which is vehemently anti-consumer and anti-ease of repair.

 

[apolloa]

I don't. It's all about thinness and trying to appeal to customers with features like "Hey Siri" I'm pretty sure Tim Cook "envisions" everyone using iCloud to keep their data safe, so no need for SSD recovery since you would log into iCloud and restore. I don't agree or like the idea, but it seems most consumers use internet-based applications (Adobe Cloud, Spotify) Apple Music, Photos, Google services).. I prefer to have everything on my computer since I don't like relying on internet connections to access my stuff.

If you want to use iCloud that will cost you a monthly fee and the biggest size available is 2 terabytes, the only other sizes they offer are 50gb and 200gb. Or you can carry around an external drive and remember to plug it in every time you want to use your laptop, but then again if you have a recent MB Pro you’ll be used to carrying all those dongles anyway.

 

[gigatoaster]

So which HDD would you recommend for back-up? I opened this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/which-external-hdd-to-buy-for-time-machine.2128966/

Could someone have a look to help me, please?

 

[Dammit Cubs]

There's always a way and Apple knows the procedure. And they aren't going to tell anyone. That's just how it is unfortunately. A lot can change between logic board models through out the years.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I like that type of security.

I’m 50/50 on this move.

Course I did see Apple implementing something like this yet with iCloud + TP2 coming into the data encryption equation.

On a side inquiry: can macOS High Sierra (natively or 3rd party sw) format and wipe an NMVE 3.0 PCIe SSD that was encrypted with Win10 Ent with bitlocker? Hoping to format this as NTFS or exfat so that a new win10 can detect, image and write to the SSD.

 

[Lone Deranger]

Simple thinking here, but if the data is irretrievable due to the nature of the T2-chip secure enclave design, wouldn't it be a desirable option for Apple to provide buyers of T2-enabled hardware with a copy of the T2 chip (think USB-key type format)? Kind of like an extra house-key should you lock yourself out. That way, should Apple need to retrieve data, the customer and only the customer could provide the key to have them do so.

 

[DeepIn2U]

Incorrect. Apple offers a flat rate out of warranty price of $330 for 15” laptops that covers any part failure that’s not due to accidental damage/liquid etc. good deal over all. So no matter what fails on your logic board you can get that rate.
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True my genii brethren.

“Hmmm. The genii, grrrerrrr, they bother me”

If only Time Machine backups wouldn't fail so often or get corrupted requiring starting from scratch. I guess you could always back up to the cloud. I'm sure that Apple will offer a half-assed solution that fails when you need it.

I’d suggest running Disk Utlity to check drive permissions; fix if any issues found. Use another drive to format and backup as a test. If 2nd drive works then for sure permissions or sectors bring bad is the primary 2 potential issues you’re facing.

FYI, chances are when the time comes, your Time Capsule backups won't be available either due to any number of little discrepancies between your old hardware #s and new either.

At this point, a 20 year rare music & film collection sits on a drive with no file system, reduced to listening to my last remaining stack of records on an old Technics turntable.

Initially with APFS being implemented to MacOS and iOS, Time Machine backups were not supported and restored from TM backups I’ll advised. This has been fixed for months now.

Technics MK1200’s

 

[gnasher729]

Guess everyone needs to carry a portable hard drive with TM backup in case logic board fail while traveling.
Sigh.

There are risks in life that I worry about. Logic board failing while travelling? Not one of them. Did you worry about it before you read this article, or are you just a moaner?

 

[mrr]

Have you ever checked out how much Drive Savers charges to recover data?!

$$$$$$$$$

 

[gnasher729]

Hey Tim... here is how being clean and green works
1. Upgrade, so instead of throwing away everything you upgrade the RAM and SSD, this is NOT possible with Apple
2. Repair , so instead of throwing away everything you replace just the faulty bits , this is NOT possible with Apple

Apples "green" credentials are now
Throw it away.

Upgrading a Mac, any Mac, is very simple. Step one : Time Machine backup. Step two: Advertise it on eBay.

Only a bloody idiot would throw a Mac away. But you knew that, didn’t you?

 

[nihil0]

1. Time Machine
2. External HDD for manual backups
3. iCloud backups

 

[m0dest]

If you're not familiar with cryptography, removing this port might be seen as an arbitrary decision. It's not. This is the first Mac to have robust disk encryption, on par with iOS devices. As a result of this design, data is now useless when moved to any other computer. If you extracted the data with the service port, the data you'd get would be garbage. Not even your password could decrypt it. A port is no longer useful.

The longer version:

Until now, Macs just used your login password to encrypt the hard drive. That's not robust encryption, for 2 reasons: (1) almost nobody uses a login password that is sufficient for encryption (128 bits of entropy), and (2) after the data gets extracted from your hard drive, a cluster of computers can try to decrypt the data in parallel.

On iOS devices and this 2018 MBP, the encryption is robust. Every device has a hardware module ("secure enclave") with a secret key, the UID, that is ~impossible to read. Instead of just encrypting your hard drive with your login password, it uses a combination of your login password and the device's secret UID. (Your hard drive's encryption key is "entangled with" the device's UID.) The only way to decrypt the data is to have both the hardware module and the login password. That's what (1) provides more than 128 bits of entropy and (2) prevents the data from being decrypted by multiple computers in parallel (since there's only one hardware module).

This is 2018; all portable devices should be encrypted with robust security by default. If anything, customers should be upset at Apple for taking so long to modernize the Mac's disk encryption. So, yeah, you need a fully functional device to decrypt its data, and no, you can't siphon the data out using a secret service port.

 

[gnasher729]

This is so dumb. Why release models with 4TBs of storage? Such a high amount of storage will only be used by professionals and not having this safety net just so they can never use Hey Siri is a sign of how dumb Apple are. I can't wait to see how they **** up the Mac Pro.

Professional user with a 4 TB drive and no backup is an idiot who deserves to go out of business.

 

[Sedulous]

That's right, make that thing ever-thinner so it runs so hot it melts down and takes your data with it. Bravo Apple! I wonder if the same working group of professionals they brought on to advise the new modular MacPro could maybe take a look at the next MacBook Pro design... because this trend has to be reversed. Who could possibly think this is good?

 

[gnasher729]

the thing that worries me about backup to externals is they're all hd based too ... my lacie 6tb is wheezing like an asthmatic now...

In that case, you should think about buying a new external hard drive.
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You cannot claim a stolen computer on warranty that’s insurance.

They can repair the computer parts. Quite easily. They just aren’t modular anymore. There’s no connectors as yes more parts are integrated. This also cuts down on repair triage time. As somebody who has probably completed over 5000 modular repairs in his life time as much as I love that model from a hobbyist perspective I support the evolving integrated model for its ease and simplicity. 3 words: flat rate repair.

Like Apple out-of-warranty repair for iPhones: store employee takes your phone, drops it in a box marked “broken phones”, grabs a phone from a box marked “refurbished phones” and hands it to you.
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And what happens if that backup becomes corrupted?

What happens if a madman with an axe destroys your MacBook? And what happens if he goes after you instead of your Mac?

 

[George Dawes]

Backing up a backup disk .. this whole thing is getting very tedious

Are there any truly reliable backup methods ??

 

[MobiusStrip]

Apple has to engineer a port specifically so that your ass can be covered when you’re too lazy to make and maintain a backup when options like time machine exist and are so easy? Come on whiners.

No. They shouldn’t be peddling glued-together computers with soldered-in RAM and drives. Or such pathetically degraded keyboards that they cease to function... or just plain suck to begin with.

You ignore the opposite scenario: What happens when the soldered-in SSD goes bad in one of these POSes? Because it will... and then you just throw the computer away?

Deal with your cognitive dissonance and stop lashing out at those who stand up for better.

 

[Naraxus]

Add to this that Apple is making it harder to backup by eliminating time capsules, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Welcome to Timmy's Apple where penny-pinching is the name of the game. Forget about giving customers quality products. It's all about price gouging, evading taxes and social justicing with TimmyC

 

[Mescagnus]

Encrypted cloud backups, such as BackBlaze, are handy. Backups happen wherever you are, provided that there is internet.

I wonder why Apple does not provide ICloud backups for Mac the same way they do iOS devices?

 

[gnasher729]

So which HDD would you recommend for back-up? I opened this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/which-external-hdd-to-buy-for-time-machine.2128966/

Could someone have a look to help me, please?

Any hard drive will do just fine. Just stay away from drives with “backup” in the name because they tend to come with some software that interferes with normal use, and avoid drives where the maker specifically targets Mac users and doubles the price tag.

 

[pkouame]

Folks - while I've been extremely critical and disappointed with Apple on keyboard-gate and (lately) core i9 throttle-gate (bottom-line simply bad engineering design and choices) THIS issue is a little different and we need to wait until some of this smoke clears. “Apple can’t recover your data” may not be totally accurate…

My read of the (somewhat) vague article is that the port that enabled the black recovery box is now useless anyway since the T2 IS the SSD controller and inline encrypts all of your SSD automagically in real-time. Disconnect the two and it's (nearly) impossible to recover your data. As a result, a fried T2 means your data is toast. But that doesn't necessarily cover ALL of the possible logic board failures. An in depth read of the comments from industry experts @ the iFixt tear down suggests, and rightfully so, that access to the controller from other on-board busses may be possible, even after a board failure. Albeit with more sophisticated equipment of course.

It's just that this sort of operation may no longer be possible @ the genius bar. Apple's own documentation on the T2 states that it will automatically mount and decrypt data on your mac's SSD, once connected, just see here https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208344. So given a healthy T2 paired with a healthy SSD (plus the Filevault password if you chose to go that recommended route) another type of logic board failure may not necessarily spell unrecoverable data (hence why the article mentions some specialty services Apple recommends), it may just be more difficult and take longer.

So you may not agree with Apple's obsessive bent on privacy and security (I don't necessarily do also - I totally get that), you may even believe it is a ploy to fill up iCloud storage, but removing open access to your SSD is a consequence of deliberate design decisions driven by a corporate policy that is shutting down all the existing back doors to your data. It is consistent with the corporate and technical direction and some may even appreciate the vault they are trying to build.

Sure, it's no longer convenient for enthusiasts but then again, let's face it, Apple no longer develops those kinds of products for us (we still don't have a refreshed expandable macPro after 6 years - right). Cupertino just doesn’t have the guts to tell you to go elsewhere if you want open and upgradeable architectures, but they are trying really hard to drop some very obvious hints…

They make money hand over fist from phones, appliances and music - laptops and desktops, no matter how sleek and pretty, no longer drive the bottom line.

That said, backup your data folks - there are plenty of good cheap suggestions here. Enjoy your Macs or leave the eco-system.