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Well, it would make sense that Android will capture a larger market share given the sheer number of manufacturers making devices.

However, I have yet to meet a single person who uses an Android based handset. Not that *my* social circle counts for anything, but the smartphones that I personally see in people's hands are either RIM or Apple devices... so far.

I was just about to post the same thing. Maybe android is popular in Japan? Because I sure don't see it around the U.S.

Also, this talks about market share, but it just seems be converting the quarters sales number into 'shares'. I would like to know what the ACTUAL market share numbers are. You know, out of everyone using a smartphone today, what OS and device are they using.
 
Oh, I've seen plenty of Android phones out and about. And lots of Blackberries. And lots of iPhones. All three have a significant share of the market.

And so do old flip phones. It's a big market, the phone market :)
 
I was just about to post the same thing. Maybe android is popular in Japan? Because I sure don't see it around the U.S.

I think just concentrating on the US produces a skewed model if you're using that as the basis of popularity of Android or iPhone. It's just not that significant a market on its own to really indicate global trends.

Not sure about the Android smartphone take-up in the US, but certainly amongst my own circle it's been mushrooming this year. Still lots of iPhones and Blackberrys around too, but for those who have been renewing their smartphone this year Android seemed to be the most popular choice. This time last year I don't recall seeing anyone with one. All anecdotal of course, but that seems to be more significant than hard statistics in this thread :).
 
I was just about to post the same thing. Maybe android is popular in Japan? Because I sure don't see it around the U.S.

Also, this talks about market share, but it just seems be converting the quarters sales number into 'shares'. I would like to know what the ACTUAL market share numbers are. You know, out of everyone using a smartphone today, what OS and device are they using.

you mean if you took the _cumulative_ quarterly results for the last few years? I'm sure Symbian and RIM would be far ahead, with iOS & Winmo following a distant third/forth.

(in the business world I see RIMs everywhere)
P.
 
Well, it would make sense that Android will capture a larger market share given the sheer number of manufacturers making devices.

However, I have yet to meet a single person who uses an Android based handset. Not that *my* social circle counts for anything, but the smartphones that I personally see in people's hands are either RIM or Apple devices... so far.

Read my mind on both counts. All I see are RIM and Apple devices in the wild. I don't run in large circles either but I travel around quite a bit and that's what I see.
 
And how's Nokia doing these days? ;)



How are the PC makers (who "know exactly what they're doing") faring with PC sales' profitability these days? ;)

I'd much rather be in the position of RIM or Apple selling my own devices for my own platform than being a manufacturing schlub for someone else's (Google, Microsoft) platform. HP learned this lesson the hard way, pumping out cut-rate, razor-thin-profit-margin hardware for the sake of Microsoft's profit. Snatching up Palm seemed to be their way of saying they aren't going down that dead-end street in the mobile market (and the continued absence of Ballmer's HP Win 7 Slate seems to support that argument).

But let the increasing number of Android manufacturers continue busily commoditizing their products on behalf of Google's quest for world information domination (and Microsoft's desperate bid to become relevant in mobile again) and we'll see where everything ends up.

You miss the point completely.
 
Correct I agree ... I understand the money goes to Apple... my point being that if hardware and plans were sold separately... then the consumer can pay upfront prices for their smartphones and just get a regular plan.

That is I will have a choice to buy a $600 iPhone and get a $60/month plan
Or
a $400-$600 Android phone and get a $60/month plan.

the consumer can decide if they are getting more/less value for the premium priced iPhone.


P.


fair enough, but Android prices are dropping...

a better example would be

iPhone plan at £x pcm with an upfront cost of £100

Android plan at £x - 10 pcm with zero upfront cost.

The latest cheap HTC handset (Wildfire) has a TCO of 1/3 of the iPhone.
 
It's because of the ipad....every fanboy has 2 ios devices.

Apple's tablet "computer" is actually a large smart phone without calling capability


Picture+59.png
 
Uh huh. I'm sure that's the reason behind it. :rolleyes:



Ah, the old "accuse the opposition of bias rather than responding to facts with counter-facts" ploy. Someone already used that lame trick on me in this thread. You're too late. :p



Wait, Dell sells 287 million computers every year? Astounding!

And are Apple users happier because they pay too much (as you claimed above) or because there are too few of them? :confused:



Yes.



Wait, so now the survey data itself is bogus? I thought it was based on joy from overpaying or being a member of a minority. :confused:

You seem conflicted.



I'm sure its a big reason too...yay...we agree ! ;) If you pay £1k plus to, 'join a club' you aren't gonna say you are unhappy as you would look like a clown.


No not late, just the same point of view as the other guy. Anyone who has a view (and this is not personal to you or this topic) that is so rabid and based on personal not objective values should be ignored.

blind is blind...end of story.



no dell sell x amount. The personal computer market worldwide is 300 million units (approx) how many (%) do Apple sell...?

the majority of the other computers will be sold with Windows. So if the consumer has issues with Windows do they say unhappy with Dell, HP etc. or do they specify the OS?? Apple has none of these issues nor should they have seeing as they build it all.


Most surveys are bogus...
 
that reminds me of the DOS vs Mac vs. Atari vs. Commodore story from 25 years ago.

The system that was open and would run on any hardware was the one that succeded. iOS seems to have the same problem with Android now.

Andriod is open and runs on any platform. Hence it gets more sold devices and down the road more and better software and then better adoption in the business world.

I hope the iOS platform has enough of a headstart and a big enough user base to remain significant.
I hope Jobs wakes up and opens up the iOS platform a bit - at least allowing developers to use whatever development language they want - instead of closing the platform even further, which appears to be his current approach.
 
fair enough, but Android prices are dropping...

a better example would be

iPhone plan at £x pcm with an upfront cost of £100

Android plan at £x - 10 pcm with zero upfront cost.

The latest cheap HTC handset (Wildfire) has a TCO of 1/3 of the iPhone.

good point. Apple's challenge is to get widespread adoption and create a stickiness before hardware prices drop (like the PC market).

As long as mobile technology rapidly progresses, the new handsets will be pricey (assuming they use the new technology).

if you believe in Gartner, they predict Android will be #2 by 2012.

slightly off topic, I still wouldn't count MS or Nokia out. We still haven't seen consolidation in the handset market... HTC, Motorola, RIM can always be bought out.



P.
 
Well, it would make sense that Android will capture a larger market share given the sheer number of manufacturers making devices.

However, I have yet to meet a single person who uses an Android based handset. Not that *my* social circle counts for anything, but the smartphones that I personally see in people's hands are either RIM or Apple devices... so far.
Because this is first quarter where Android has surpassed Apple's sales for the quarter. Android's marketshare for the same quarter last year was 1.8%, now it's 17.2%. It would probably still take a year or two or even longer for Android to catch up on devices in the wild, depending on how often people upgrade their phones.
 
While that sounds reasonable, I haven't found it to be so... and that's coming from someone who used to spend real money on WinMo apps for years... not the 99 cent expenditures so popular today.

Leaving WinMo isn't so much a choice as a survival mechanism. ;)

As for platform churn, I suppose it's difficult to tell what's going to happen so early in the game as people are locked into 2-year contracts.

If you pay £1k plus to, 'join a club' you aren't gonna say you are unhappy as you would look like a clown.

Baloney. If I spend premium money on a premium product I'm going to be even more critical. And no one is more critical than an Apple customer. Which is evidenced right here on this forum.

New Mac buyer: "ZOMG, I just opened my new iMac and there's a 1/8" scratch on the back in the bottom right corner! Here's a photo I took with my macro lens! I'm taking this POS back to the Apple Store and the manager is going to hear about it! WHAT HAPPENED TO APPLE QUALITY???"

New Dell buyer: "Whew, it actually powered up! I'm happy!" ;)

No not late, just the same point of view as the other guy. Anyone who has a view (and this is not personal to you or this topic) that is so rabid and based on personal not objective values should be ignored.

Perhaps the best way to debate a point is to introduce your own rational counterpoint rather than just throw out the biased, rabid fanboy accusation?

blind is blind...end of story.

Blind is being unable to debate an issue without resorting to lame copouts.

no dell sell x amount. The personal computer market worldwide is 300 million units (approx) how many (%) do Apple sell...?

Computer satisfaction surveys are done by computer manufacturer. It's Apple vs. Dell vs. HP vs. Acer. It's not Apple vs. Everyone Else In A Single Lump.

You sound a lot like my uncle who spent a lifetime working at Ford. He argues the only reason people prefer their Toyotas and Hondas over their Fords is because of reviewer bias (sound familiar?), smaller customer base/product lineup (sound familiar?) and various conspiratorial paranoias (Honda pays Consumer Reports!!!).

(That said, Ford has turned things around substantially, but my uncle has been making these same arguments for decades, when Ford clearly made the far-inferior product.)

the majority of the other computers will be sold with Windows. So if the consumer has issues with Windows do they say unhappy with Dell, HP etc. or do they specify the OS?? Apple has none of these issues nor should they have seeing as they build it all.

Irrelevant. Satisfaction is satisfaction. It's not Apple's fault the Dells and Microsofts of the world rely on finger pointing to resolve their issues.

And you just proved my point regarding the benefit of making the whole widget (Macs or iPhones).

Most surveys are bogus...

Unless they agree with your point of view. But you're not biased.
 
Leaving WinMo isn't so much a choice as a survival mechanism. ;)

As for platform churn, I suppose it's difficult to tell what's going to happen so early in the game as people are locked into 2-year contracts.



Baloney. If I spend premium money on a premium product I'm going to be even more critical. And no one is more critical than an Apple customer. Which is evidenced right here on this forum.

New Mac buyer: "ZOMG, I just opened my new iMac and there's a 1/8" scratch on the back in the bottom right corner! Here's a photo I took with my macro lens! I'm taking this POS back to the Apple Store and the manager is going to hear about it! WHAT HAPPENED TO APPLE QUALITY???"

New Dell buyer: "Whew, it actually powered up! I'm happy!" ;)



Perhaps the best way to debate a point is to introduce your own rational counterpoint rather than just throw out the biased, rabid fanboy accusation?



Blind is being unable to debate an issue without resorting to lame copouts.



Computer satisfaction surveys are done by computer manufacturer. It's Apple vs. Dell vs. HP vs. Acer. It's not Apple vs. Everyone Else In A Single Lump.

You sound a lot like my uncle who spent a lifetime working at Ford. He argues the only reason people prefer their Toyotas and Hondas over their Fords is because of reviewer bias (sound familiar?), smaller customer base/product lineup (sound familiar?) and various conspiratorial paranoias (Honda pays Consumer Reports!!!).

(That said, Ford has turned things around substantially, but my uncle has been making these same arguments for decades, when Ford clearly made the far-inferior product.)



Irrelevant. Satisfaction is satisfaction. It's not Apple's fault the Dells and Microsofts of the world rely on finger pointing to resolve their issues.

And you just proved my point regarding the benefit of making the whole widget (Macs or iPhones).



Unless they agree with your point of view. But you're not biased.


1/ Critical yes.... willing to say the same to a survey? not so much. In fact there was a guy on the hardware forum who'd had the logic board in his MBA replaced 5 times in 9 months and STILL said he was happy with the product/service. Mac heads really are a weird bunch.

2/ I'd debate the point if you had one....but I don't see it, sorry, probably my fault.

In fact you mentioned cost to consumer was the same for Android or i(p)OS, I explained in 2 separate post that it really wasn't and you seemed to ignore it (you replied to part of the post), again thats probably my fault.

3/ See point 2.

4/ No, you see I don't think an average consumer is smart enough to differentiate between a software issue and a hardware issue.

"How happy are you with your dell laptop Sir?"

"I hate it (insert random software issue here) 3 out of 10.."

Is that fair on Dell or a reflection on windows or on the consumer...?

As I said, surveys are tricky...

5/ I think Honda's and Toyota's are better products (we agree!) and its a good example because the iPhone is (like the Ford) a lousy product, expensive with restrictive policies...but it sells because its cool and some people believe that the garbage iCon speaks, regurgitated on here by people like you is true...

'We' know it isn't and the rest of the world is waking up to that fact too.


6/ All surveys are biased (product irrelevant) I never claimed they were gospel and neither should you. I could line you up 20 iPhone users now who would all rate it 5 out of 10 overall or lower. But they don't get asked at survey time....
 
What

It's comparing iOS. does that only mean v4+? does it include phones on 3.x or lower
 
As a developer I view Android with a wary eye and feel more comfortable developing for iOS devices. For me Android's "Open" means that you're open to piracy, ID theft, malware and viruses.
 
This jailbreak browser hole has nothing to do with the merits of a regulated app store vs. an unregulated one.

It HAS everything to do with it - it's like saying having a lock on the front door is better than not having it while ignoring the fact that back door is left open many times. The front door lock is no use if backdoors are left open release after release. Never mind the fact that the front door lock is in reality just a illusion in the case of regulated app store - Apple has no way of knowing with reasonable efforts if people already have malicious apps that silently steal data. There have been instances of apps doing things that they were not supposed to do - Apple realized after the fact, when the damage was already done. No different than Android.

In actuality though - you continue to ignore to state the reasons as to why you think regulated App Store is secure than non-regulated one. Oh - obscurity and artificial illusion of security and control, or just because YOU feel so? Is that why?

You must tell the rest of the world about this in a convincing manner. The idiots are fighting the security battle the wrong way - they are wanting to make systems secure UNCONDITIONALLY! So they are busy inventing more secure programming languages, enforcing better security policies, designing better OSes, building threat models and stuff. That's all unnecessary right, right right? They can just limit their market share, follow effortless obscurity and be on the top of a secure world, right?
 
As a developer I view Android with a wary eye and feel more comfortable developing for iOS devices. For me Android's "Open" means that you're open to piracy, ID theft, malware and viruses.

you think there's no piracy on the iphone , come on go to any torrent site and you can dl every app avalible to the iphone.

same goes for android also i say its equal in that department.
 
It HAS everything to do with it - it's like saying having a lock on the front door is better than not having it while ignoring the fact that back door is left open many times. The front door lock is no use if backdoors are left open release after release. Never mind the fact that the front door lock is in reality just a illusion in the case of regulated app store - Apple has no way of knowing with reasonable efforts if people already have malicious apps that silently steal data. There have been instances of apps doing things that they were not supposed to do - Apple realized after the fact, when the damage was already done. No different than Android.

In actuality though - you continue to ignore to state the reasons as to why you think regulated App Store is secure than non-regulated one. Oh - obscurity and artificial illusion of security and control, or just because YOU feel so? Is that why?

You must tell the rest of the world about this in a convincing manner. The idiots are fighting the security battle the wrong way - they are wanting to make systems secure UNCONDITIONALLY! So they are busy inventing more secure programming languages, enforcing better security policies, designing better OSes, building threat models and stuff. That's all unnecessary right, right right? They can just limit their market share, follow effortless obscurity and be on the top of a secure world, right?

Wow. You are really trying hard to not understand what he is saying.

I'll try and simplify.

1. Everything else being equal, an OS used by more people is more likely to be attacked than an OS used by less people.

2. Everything else being equal, an app store where someone reviews each app is less likely to allow in a malicious app than an app store that does not review each app.

That's it. Anything else is just you making stuff up to argue with. No claims about which OS is more secure.
 
Wow. You are really trying hard to not understand what he is saying.

I'll try and simplify.

1. Everything else being equal, an OS used by more people is more likely to be attacked than an OS used by less people.

2. Everything else being equal, an app store where someone reviews each app is less likely to allow in a malicious app than an app store that does not review each app.

That's it. Anything else is just you making stuff up to argue with. No claims about which OS is more secure.

Welcome to the discussion. Thanks for repeating your and his opinions in the hope of making them universally accepted factoids.

Suggestion - come back to the party when you are ready to advance to next step.
 
it sells because its cool and some people believe that the garbage iCon speaks, regurgitated on here by people like you is true...

LOL! And you call me biased? i(p)OS? iCon? Mac heads are weird?

Your motivations here are exposed.

As for your mastery of the science of surveys, I remain dubious.

Wow. You are really trying hard to not understand what he is saying.

Thanks for trying. I've given up on him. I'm not sure who he's arguing with because it certainly isn't me - he completely ignores every point I make and spins off in another direction.

I'm sure he'll find a way to misunderstand your simple explanation as well.

*shrug*
 
iOS vs Android .. sounds like the same arguments being had 10 years ago on Mac vs PC ... closed vs open ... i think history has proved there is plenty of room for both to co-exist ...
 
As a developer I view Android with a wary eye and feel more comfortable developing for iOS devices. For me Android's "Open" means that you're open to piracy, ID theft, malware and viruses.

I'm not sure you should make which platform has the most viruses as your main criteria for choosing whom to develop for. Windows has huge problems with malware and warez yet has by far the largest developer base for consumer products. This is because the market is equally huge, so developers can still make a living despite the "seepage".

Funnily enough, I see many more iPhone apps on torrent sites and usenet than I do Android, so I'm not sure I'd see it quite as secure as you do as a developer. The recent PDF snafu also doesn't make me think that iOS is less prone to malware and viruses. Google are also introducing a verification service for developers which will help cut down on low-level piracy. Personally, I'd go for the bigger market if that was my only criteria as a developer, but I'm sure iOS is still potentially very lucrative if you get the right app accepted in the store. Best of luck!
 
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