Apple Sneaks Up on Motorola in Mobile Phone Sales, Android Surges Past iOS

[ToroidalZeus]

But what happens when iPhone leaves AT&T and is now on all carriers. AT&T is going to have no reason to give early upgrades and rather just let people stay on contract and force people to wait out the normal 18-20 months upgrade cycle.

Most people I know tend to hold hold on to the phone for the normal 18-20 months any how. It is only the iPhone fanboys and girls who upgrade every year.

Isn't that how it is already?

Only the primary line is eligible for the yearly upgrade, all other lines need to wait 20 months.

AT&Ts special 2010 upgrade policy for the iPhone 4 was announced as 6 months early but because the standard policy is 4 months early, it was really only 2 months early (assuming you signed up in Dec. 08). So it was a good policy from a PR standpoint but not much of a difference to most people.

 

[xIGmanIx]

Android doubled their market share in one year, i apple wants to maintain their position they have to offer this on other carriers, or get over themselves and offer other form factors.

 

[xIGmanIx]

An import utility isn't exactly what I had in mind when I said "sync."

You can sync your exchange or any pop 3 accounts and have multiples of each, swyped on my synced htc evo

 

[NebulaClash]

Android doubled their market share in one year, i apple wants to maintain their position they have to offer this on other carriers, or get over themselves and offer other form factors.

Apple is going to offer it on other carriers, as we see in many countries. Probably in the U.S. in a matter of months.

Other form factors? No, that's a weakness of the Android market and a strength of the iPhone market, though people frequently think the opposite. As a developer, it's nice to know exactly how to format your app and know that it will work on all tens of millions of iPhones exactly as you expect. An Android developer can not have that luxury.

In many ways the Android market is turning into the Windows market for phones, with the good aspects as well as the bad aspects built in. Windows could be on any box, so you couldn't be sure what your software would be running on. Choice is cool for the customer, trickier for the developer.

And the form factor of the iPhone is great as is. You know how I can tell? Everyone copied it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Apple is going to offer it on other carriers, as we see in many countries. Probably in the U.S. in a matter of months.

Other form factors? No, that's a weakness of the Android market and a strength of the iPhone market, though people frequently think the opposite. As a developer, it's nice to know exactly how to format your app and know that it will work on all tens of millions of iPhones exactly as you expect. An Android developer can not have that luxury.

In many ways the Android market is turning into the Windows market for phones, with the good aspects as well as the bad aspects built in. Windows could be on any box, so you couldn't be sure what your software would be running on. Choice is cool for the customer, trickier for the developer.

And the form factor of the iPhone is great as is. You know how I can tell? Everyone copied it.

The problem with that line of though even on windows for you just need to know what you can assume every phone will have and the OS should be able to handle everything else.

On Windows PC vs Mac computers. They both run off off the shelf stuff. Same CPUs, OMG same graphic card chip, same ram ect. Only difference is the chipsets in the mobo but those things are handled by the drivers. The Devs on those computers let the OS handle most things.
Same on the phones. There is a lot of things people here need to learn about developing software

 

[Redi]

Apple is going to offer it on other carriers, as we see in many countries. Probably in the U.S. in a matter of months.

Other form factors? No, that's a weakness of the Android market and a strength of the iPhone market, though people frequently think the opposite. As a developer, it's nice to know exactly how to format your app and know that it will work on all tens of millions of iPhones exactly as you expect. An Android developer can not have that luxury.

In many ways the Android market is turning into the Windows market for phones, with the good aspects as well as the bad aspects built in. Windows could be on any box, so you couldn't be sure what your software would be running on. Choice is cool for the customer, trickier for the developer.

And the form factor of the iPhone is great as is. You know how I can tell? Everyone copied it.

Ever heard of the LG Prada? It came out BEFORE the iPhone, and people were so convinced that the iPhone was copyright infringement that a lawsuit was generally expected. Luckily, there was no litigation filed, but I think you get my point. Apple wasn't the first, and the time in between Prada/iPhone and other releases shows that it didn't start the touchscreen wave. Rather, it happened to just have a front seat for the ride.

ANY consumer product will have good and bad aspects "built in". The iPhone isn't a perfect device. Every phone has it's pulls and faults. I have a good amount of friends that own Android devices, and they have had no problems when it comes to apps. As for the developers, the tweaks required for an Android to Android port can't be too much of a hassle. It's the same kernel and almost the exact same OS on every Android phone. It obviously hasn't been much of a problem, as there is still a good (and growing) amount of developers making apps for Android devices.

 

[archipellago]

1) Any hardware manufacture would love to have ~80% of it's customers upgrade to the latest model.

2) You have you remember in America almost all phones are sold subsidized. So new up take isn't going to be any better for an android phone vs an iphone. Each costs roughly $200 and carry a $15/25 (AT&T) $30 (Verizon, soon to be 15/25 most likely) a month data plan.
2a)So the only reason android is outselling iOS is because android is coming on every single new device.

1/ Depends why they are upgrading...doesn't help the devs though does it? If its 'all the same users'

2/ Nope, just looking at the verizon webpage itself there are handsets (android) on there for $50.... even at&t have android devices around the $100 mark.

 

[archipellago]

Yes, it's clear that the U.S. and European markets for cell phones are different. In the U.S. there isn't a price advantage to Android over iPhone, but it sounds as if there is a difference in the UK. You know where you see it in the U.S.? Blackberry usage among tens. No way they should be popular among teens, but they are practically given away and have cheap texting plans, and thus teens buy them.

Cheap always finds some buyers regardless of features.

the fact that its actually better for phone calls and text messaging is clearly incidental.

 

[archipellago]

Apple is going to offer it on other carriers, as we see in many countries. Probably in the U.S. in a matter of months.

Other form factors? No, that's a weakness of the Android market and a strength of the iPhone market, though people frequently think the opposite. As a developer, it's nice to know exactly how to format your app and know that it will work on all tens of millions of iPhones exactly as you expect. An Android developer can not have that luxury.

In many ways the Android market is turning into the Windows market for phones, with the good aspects as well as the bad aspects built in. Windows could be on any box, so you couldn't be sure what your software would be running on. Choice is cool for the customer, trickier for the developer.

And the form factor of the iPhone is great as is. You know how I can tell? Everyone copied it.

Fragmentation of the App store for iOS is already here.

the iOS4 debacle on 3G showed that.

An app cannot and will not run the same on all iPhones, and once iOS4 is a pre-requisite for all apps then 3G are out of there.

no ones fault, but not a virtue of any app store.

obsolete hardware is a fact of life in the tech world.

 

[DMann]

Fragmentation of the App store for iOS is already here.

the iOS4 debacle on 3G showed that.

An app cannot and will not run the same on all iPhones, and once iOS4 is a pre-requisite for all apps then 3G are out of there.

no ones fault, but not a virtue of any app store.

obsolete hardware is a fact of life in the tech world.

Are you really going to attempt to equate this to the immense level of fragmentation of OS, features, firmware, multiple ROMs, screen sizes and resolutions, functionality, graphics drivers, hardware variations, etc. of Android phones?

Here's a partial list for your perusal:

 

[ToroidalZeus]

2/ Nope, just looking at the verizon webpage itself there are handsets (android) on there for $50.... even at&t have android devices around the $100 mark.

Exactly my point, Android comes in so many drvices, including bottom tier phones, the ones that aren't even iPhone smartphone level (like the evo or droidx)

 

[KnightWRX]

Exactly my point, Android comes in so many drvices, including bottom tier phones, the ones that aren't even iPhone smartphone level (like the evo or droidx)

Yeah, choice. What a concept.

Seriously, fandroids should just shush. No one needs so many choices. There should only be 1 phone model on the market, every other manufacturer should close down and accept that consumers don't want different screen size, hardware keyboards, different form factors.

Everyone should just have an iPhone, made like Steve wants it. LG Prada ? Forget about that, they copied Apple. They probably had inside information on the iPhone and rushed some generic copy to the market.

 

[NebulaClash]

Ever heard of the LG Prada? It came out BEFORE the iPhone, and people were so convinced that the iPhone was copyright infringement that a lawsuit was generally expected. Luckily, there was no litigation filed, but I think you get my point. Apple wasn't the first, and the time in between Prada/iPhone and other releases shows that it didn't start the touchscreen wave. Rather, it happened to just have a front seat for the ride.

What on Earth... Wow, it's been a while since a good LG Prada troll. Look, I never said the iPhone was the first touch phone, so why are you implying I did? What I said is that the iPhone is so successful, everyone else started copying them. All smart phones look something like the iPhone now. That's a sign that what Apple did was accepted by the marketplace.

The LG Prada? Yeah, whatever happened to that...

 

[NebulaClash]

Yeah, choice. What a concept.

Seriously, fandroids should just shush. No one needs so many choices. There should only be 1 phone model on the market, every other manufacturer should close down and accept that consumers don't want different screen size, hardware keyboards, different form factors.

Everyone should just have an iPhone, made like Steve wants it. LG Prada ? Forget about that, they copied Apple. They probably had inside information on the iPhone and rushed some generic copy to the market.

Way to miss the point. Yes, choice is good, but it is good for the customer, while being complicated for the developer. That was the point, and by sarcastically acknowledging there is choice in the Android market, you confirm his point incidentally.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

That is all very nice but what about all those Android phone owners who have been hang out to dry by the handset vendors refusal to provide Android 2.2. updates? Flash is only available on 2.2, not all phones will get 2.2 - sounds like once again the clueless Android fanboys are getting the royal shafting by the very companies they worship.

 

[NebulaClash]

That is one of the key problems with the cell phone industry. It's not just under the control of the phone manufacturers. The cell companies themselves have lots of control.

Apple took the approach of taking it in house and negotiating tough terms with their partners. Those who didn't play ball at the time (Verizon) lost out.

Google is taking the approach, hey, we just provide the software, you pick whatever phone you want. That way provides choice, but it leaves everything under the control of the cell companies. You get updates from them, if they feel like it.

So both camps are beholden to a company to get the OS they need. iPhone owners look to Apple. Android owners look to cell companies. I'll take Apple.

 

[ChazUK]

That is all very nice but what about all those Android phone owners who have been hang out to dry by the handset vendors refusal to provide Android 2.2. updates? Flash is only available on 2.2, not all phones will get 2.2 - sounds like once again the clueless Android fanboys are getting the royal shafting by the very companies they worship.

Which handset manufacturers are you calling out here specifically?

Flash 10.1 on Android has a high minimum requirement meaning those older handsets stuck on Android 1.6 or 2.1 were never going to get Flash anyway.

Most of the high end handsets with 1GHz CPU's have Android 2.1 or 2.2 or a 2.2 update due. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Xperia X10 which is currently stuck on Android 1.6.

We could say about the iPhone that multitasking isn't available on all handsets. Desktop wallpapers aren't available on all handsets. iOS 4.0 isn't available on all handsets and for the low end 3g, iOS4 performs atrociously. Apple needlessly withheld MMS from the first gen iPhone back in the day for absolutely no reason (a feature that was enabled thanks to the Jailbreak community).

Holding back on updates/features to handsets to sell more newer models is nothing unusual and something that even Apple practices. At least Apple managed to squeeze iAds into the 3G tho.

 

[Redi]

What on Earth... Wow, it's been a while since a good LG Prada troll. Look, I never said the iPhone was the first touch phone, so why are you implying I did? What I said is that the iPhone is so successful, everyone else started copying them. All smart phones look something like the iPhone now. That's a sign that what Apple did was accepted by the marketplace.

The LG Prada? Yeah, whatever happened to that...

What? The fact that I may have sourced information you may not like doesn't make me a troll. Nothing in my post was remotely troll-like, and if you really think so then you need to learn the definition. I never implied what you said I did. However, what I did say was that the Prada and the iPhone were too similar in terms of design in order for the iPhone to be considered the say all when it comes to touh screen design. When you think about it, there's not really any other way a fully touchscreen phone CAN be designed... That's like saying everyone copied the first modern sedan because they all look alike, when it's actually because sometimes a design is pretty much set for the product you are making.

Of course the Prada wasn't wildly successful, but that's beside the entire point of what I was trying to discuss.

 

[Groovetube]

That is all very nice but what about all those Android phone owners who have been hang out to dry by the handset vendors refusal to provide Android 2.2. updates? Flash is only available on 2.2, not all phones will get 2.2 - sounds like once again the clueless Android fanboys are getting the royal shafting by the very companies they worship.

is this sort of like how my iPhone 3G suddenly became practically unusable after updating to iOS4?

It certainly provides a real incentive to buy a new iPhone though!

 

[macintoshtoffy]

is this sort of like how my iPhone 3G suddenly became practically unusable after updating to iOS4?

It certainly provides a real incentive to buy a new iPhone though!

How about instead of lying you stick to the topic - "practically unusable?" based on what benchmark? being one of those annoying individuals who make their phone the centre of their existence? if that is the case I wish your phone spontaneously exploded so then you might actually converse with real people for once.

Which handset manufacturers are you calling out here specifically?

Flash 10.1 on Android has a high minimum requirement meaning those older handsets stuck on Android 1.6 or 2.1 were never going to get Flash anyway.

Most of the high end handsets with 1GHz CPU's have Android 2.1 or 2.2 or a 2.2 update due. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Xperia X10 which is currently stuck on Android 1.6.

We could say about the iPhone that multitasking isn't available on all handsets. Desktop wallpapers aren't available on all handsets. iOS 4.0 isn't available on all handsets and for the low end 3g, iOS4 performs atrociously. Apple needlessly withheld MMS from the first gen iPhone back in the day for absolutely no reason (a feature that was enabled thanks to the Jailbreak community).

Holding back on updates/features to handsets to sell more newer models is nothing unusual and something that even Apple practices. At least Apple managed to squeeze iAds into the 3G tho.

HTC Hero won't get an official update to 2.2 - several hundred dollars down the drain; you might as well take the phone outside and smash it into little pieces since it is now worthless even though it is less than a year old - nice one HTC, way to screw over your customers. Whilst we're living in the real world - what is Apple doing? funny enough they're providing an upgrade to 4.0 free of charge, so if you're an owner of the 3G released in July 2008, your 2 year old phone is still supported.

So lets do a comparison, on one hand you have an HTC phone that is obsolete and useless in under a year then on the other hand you have an iPhone 2 years old still receiving updates and upgrades.

 

[KnightWRX]

Way to miss the point. Yes, choice is good, but it is good for the customer, while being complicated for the developer. That was the point, and by sarcastically acknowledging there is choice in the Android market, you confirm his point incidentally.

His point tries to paint choice as a negative. I was pointing out sarcastically that it is a positive.

And devs have serious fragmentation to deal with with iOS even though there's "1 model" too. It's disingenious to pretend it's an Android problem. Actually, Android devs might be better tooled to deal with it than the iOS devs.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

HTC Hero won't get an official update to 2.2 - several hundred dollars down the drain; you might as well take the phone outside and smash it into little pieces since it is now worthless even though it is less than a year old - nice one HTC, way to screw over your customers. Whilst we're living in the real world - what is Apple doing? funny enough they're providing an upgrade to 4.0 free of charge, so if you're an owner of the 3G released in July 2008, your 2 year old phone is still supported.

So lets do a comparison, on one hand you have an HTC phone that is obsolete and useless in under a year then on the other hand you have an iPhone 2 years old still receiving updates and upgrades.

That lack of an update is more sprint blocking it than HTC

If AT&T had its way none of the iPhones would get any update to the next OS.

 

[KnightWRX]

HTC Hero won't get an official update to 2.2 - several hundred dollars down the drain; you might as well take the phone outside and smash it into little pieces since it is now worthless even though it is less than a year old -

What are you on about ? Is Google pushing out a remote disable on the phone since it's running 2.1 ? Why would it suddenly be "worthless" ? It doesn't make calls anymore ? It doesn't do everything it did the day before ?

Or are you just overreacting a bit ?

BTW, the iPhone 3G was being sold actively 2 months ago. A 2 month old phone doesn't even get most of the important features of 4.0, all of which were provided 2 years ago by the jailbreak community.

And the worse part ? The JB community enabled all those features and the phone still worked fine, yet when Apple ships you a crippled update without them, the phone becomes slow as molasses.

At least HTC has enough sense to realise that there is no point to updating to FroYo for the HTC Hero, it's simply not up to spec. 2.1 is good enough, and it has plenty of features. It's far from useless and it still works fine. Apple should've left the 3G at 3.0 seeing the mess they did of the 4.0 upgrade for it.

 

[macintoshtoffy]

That lack of an update is more sprint blocking it than HTC

Bullcrap - there is nothing stopping HTC from offering upgrades directly themselves - you do realise that the HTC hero is actually shipped out side the US to countries where HTC does not have a carrier agreement?

If AT&T had its way none of the iPhones would get any update to the next OS.

Again, more bullcrap - Apple could issue the update themselves just like they issue updates for iPod via the internet using iTunes.

HTC has screwed up big time - I hope they curl up and die in the corner for telling a large chunk of customers to go f-ck themselves after finding that they're left high and dry running an obsolete operating system on a phone less than a year old.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Bullcrap - there is nothing stopping HTC from offering upgrades directly themselves - you do realise that the HTC hero is actually shipped out side the US to countries where HTC does not have a carrier agreement?



Again, more bullcrap - Apple could issue the update themselves just like they issue updates for iPod via the internet using iTunes.

HTC has screwed up big time - I hope they curl up and die in the corner for telling a large chunk of customers to go f-ck themselves after finding that they're left high and dry running an obsolete operating system on a phone less than a year old.

then you have a lot of learn. The carriers get final say on each of the updates. Threw that own Chat the hero is listed more than once. Some of them it gets 2.2 others (like sprint stop at 2.1)

Take for example the blackberries on AT&T. There is 5.0 OS release for 8900 and 9000 out there on other carriers but AT&T will not officially release it for those phones. Nothing RIM can do about it. Now people like me have download 5.0 from another carrier then messed with one of the required files and installed it.



Carriers get a say in everything but it seems like Apple. As I said if AT&T had its way they would not allow updates to the iPhone. Of the big 4 in the US AT&T is the worse at allowing updates to its phones.