OK, honest answer. How about every device? There's like 270.000 devices out there that a Harmony remote can control, so how about 270.000? Because it can be done. Currently Siri is unable to control my smart kettle, my radiators, my TV, my sound system, play music from Spotify, it's basically becoming less and less useful by the day. I know loads of people like to highlight the fact that the homePod is supposed to be a good speaker with some Siri bolted on. I say they're wrong. When I hear "homePod" I instantly think of a device that is able to control my home, acts as a room or home's control centre and happens to have a mighty good speaker. This is where Tim Cook in his usual style messed up royally. He created something that nobody really wants or needs, because frankly it offers nothing special. A huge opportunity missed at a time that smart homes are actually becoming a real thing.
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Apple Sold an Estimated 600,000 HomePod Speakers During the First Quarter of 2018
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OK, honest answer. How about every device? There's like 270.000 devices out there that a Harmony remote can control, so how about 270.000? Because it can be done. Currently Siri is unable to control my smart kettle, my radiators, my TV, my sound system, play music from Spotify, it's basically becoming less and less useful by the day. I know loads of people like to highlight the fact that the homePod is supposed to be a good speaker with some Siri bolted on. I say they're wrong. When I hear "homePod" I instantly think of a device that is able to control my home, acts as a room or home's control centre and happens to have a mighty good speaker. This is where Tim Cook in his usual style messed up royally. He created something that nobody really wants or needs, because frankly it offers nothing special. A huge opportunity missed at a time that smart homes are actually becoming a real thing.
This is a decent point to an extent regarding the markets.
if you include the homepod i the home automation market, it falls flat due to Siri. Comparing it to Google Home (or Mini) or Amazon's Echo (or Dot) products, and the HomePod seems overpriced nonsense that is limited and crippled.
if you're comparing the HomePod however to other wireless speakers. It makes more sense. I'd like to think that the HomePod is more a version of say, Bose Soundlink bluetooth speaker, which is near the same price as the HomePod. So the HomePod isn't so much a smart home appliance, as a fancy wireless speaker w/ limited home control functionality, that is tied exclusively to Apple only ecosytem.
The problem is, what are people buying more of? Hi Fi wireless speakers, or home automation tools right now? the big rapid growth is in the home automation category, and Wireless speaker are an already crowded market.
As the popular saying goes - one should not miss the forest for the trees.
The entire Apple ecosystem still provides a very compelling user experience for me, flaws and shortcomings and all. While Siri could be better, it's still good enough to do the basic stuff well for me. The Apple Pencil offers a sublime writing experience, and I teach with my iPad Pro in the classroom every day, with it mirrored to an Apple TV hooked up to the projector. I like the simplicity of iOS.
My photos are synced via iCloud. Files are tossed around effortlessly using airdrop. It's awesome being able to consume Apple Music on my Apple TV and Apple Watch. My AirPods switch readily amongst all my Apple devices. I am able to receive calls and SMSes on my iPad and iMac courtesy of continuity.
So no, I lose no sleep at night over this. Apple isn't perfect, but then again, what company is? Switching over to a competing brand doesn't necessarily mean I am better off - it just means I am trading one set of issues for another. And for me, the strengths of staying within the Apple ecosystem (still) more than outweigh the cons.
You are seeing it backwards. If Apple products were as problematic as you claimed they were, nobody would have bought their products, much less bought them in the quantities that made Apple as insanely successful as it is today. The oft-trotted narrative of a mindless Apple sheep who rushes out to buy whatever new product Apple announces is convenient but ultimately disingenuous because it simply attempts to explain away Apple's success rather than explain it.
That they do just goes to show that for all the criticism levelled at Apple and their product design decisions, they nevertheless remain very compelling choices. Yes, point out Apple's shortcomings as they surface, but don't forget to give Apple credit for the things that they excel in as well.
In a nutshell, my answer to your point is that all things are packages of features and compromises. Not all features matter, and not all features matter equally. There is a difference between functionality (ie: raw number of features) and usability (how those features are actually used). That Siri is inferior to Google Assistant may not mean much to the end user if he uses either one for very basic scenarios. Maps may not be able to match google maps in terms of features, but I use Maps because it's good enough and gets me to where I need to go and I don't really need the extra bells and whistles such as Street View (heck, I don't even have google maps installed on my iOS devices).
On the flip side, what Apple does do well, I happen to value enough to be willing to vote with my wallet. In 2016, I bought an iPad Pro, Apple Pencil, Apple Watch and AirPods, and am enjoying them very much. Last year, I got a 5k iMac and upgraded to an iPhone 8+. This year, I am looking at replacing my 9.7" iPad Pro with a 12.9" iPad Pro if / when it gets refreshed. They aren't perfect, but the user experience afforded has been great enough for me to not lose sleep over what they don't do very well, and truth be told, the competition simply isn't able to offer the same tightly-integrated ecosystem that Apple is renowned for.
And that's why Apple is as successful as it is. Because Apple is a design-led company who is able to monetise the end user experience more effectively than any other company out there, and it does this not by focusing on technology in a vacuum, but by being able to package different bits of technology together to afford me an integrated computing experience which just works right out of the box, even if the tech on their own are inferior to other options out there in the market.
I think a lot of people (not meaning you) don't understand the difference between home automation and home control.
For home automation I use Indigo Domotics running on a Mac mini. For my needs, there's little that comes close, having loads of flexibility. For someone just wanting to control lights with a minimal amount of automation/intelligence there's a lot to choose from out there.
I said that since the price was first released. $249 is "high" for this, but a sweet spot. $350 is simply ridiculous.
I have two Sonos Play 1 speakers and a Sonos Sub. The sub makes a huge difference. I love the Sonos. Been thinking of upgrading to Sonos Play 5.
The 1/8" jack is a nice feature, but it is limited because it is a hardware level speaker override. My living room has my home theater system, so I didn't put my HomePod there. I also don't connect Alexa to my stereo because it routes ALL audio to the 1/8" jack, meaning the stereo has to be on 100% of the time and on the channel dedicated to Alexa, if you want to actually use Alexa as a smart speaker. Otherwise she will listen, but never respond if your stereo is off.
I have a bunch of dots around my house that I use for smart home stuff, although now after swapping to Home Assistant I have HomeKit working as well. For the foreseeable future I'll keep both around until Apple has both a cheaper/smaller HomePod and actually starts working on improving Siri.
I'd be really surprised if Apple doesn't come out with a HomePod development kit during WWDC this year, along with expanded Siri capabilities. Maybe too little, too late, but I wouldn't count Apple out of the home assistant market just yet.
Your usage of a hyphen in the place of an em dash is deeply bothersome to me and I feel that it’s important to share that with you.
I agree. Comparing the HomePod to the Sonos One makes way more sense. So the question I present, “In terms of price is it Apple vs Sonos or Apple HomePod vs Sonos One?”
If it’s Apple vs Sonos I get the higher price for the HomePod. The Apple name is stronger than most brands point, blank, and period. But the Sonos brand is no slouch in home audio. So if it’s Apple HomePod vs Sonos One, Apple is off base with their price being $100 more than the Sonos One. We are talking about a speaker company who outshines Most non-hifi speaker competition and who has included one of the two best AI’s into those speakers. Apple can’t just walk into this space with a nice speaker but a less than half baked AI and expect folks to salivate over it like we did iPhones and iPads.
The HomePod doesn’t offer up any real advantages and benefits as it stands today. The first gen iPhone may have been lacking in the feature category but it offered a design years ahead of anything being offered by everyone else, intuitive and easy to use interface, a real web browser, etc. The iPad offered simplicity in how we accessed the web. There were no chords, it was lite weight, and was great when you just wanted to consume and not create.
This HomePod does nothing new for us at all. Literally.....nothing. Yet it costs 100 bucks more than arguably the best smart speaker on the market in the Sonos One.
I love my Homepod — we listen to so much music now and have discovered a lot of great new artists. We also use it to turn on some lamps in the living room and bedroom, which is helpful. My only request is that I can tell it to turn on my Apple TV in the living room, fire up Netflix, etc. Hopefully coming with a software update soon.
Apple sold an estimated 600,000 HomePod speakers during the first quarter of 2018, according to new estimates shared this morning by Strategy Analytics. Apple's sales allowed it to capture just 6 percent of the global smart speaker market, coming in well behind Amazon and Google.
Amazon shipped an estimated 4 million Echo smart speakers during the quarter, for a 43.6 percent share of the market, while Google shipped an estimated 2.4 million Google Home speakers for 26.5 percent market share. Alibaba also came in ahead of Apple with 700,000 shipments, while Xiaomi trailed behind with 200,000.
Apple has a long way to go to catch up to Google and Amazon, both of whom have seen an enormous growth in shipments over the course of the past year. Amazon's shipments increased by two million compared to Q1 2017, while Google's increased by 2.1 million.
Amazon's market share has fallen year over year due to strong sales of Google speakers and new entrants to the market like Apple, Alibaba, and Xiaomi, but Amazon continues to be the number one smart speaker vendor in the world by far.
In total, across all vendors, there were an estimated 9.2 million smart speaker units shipped during the first quarter of 2018. Apple is, at the current time, the fourth largest smart speaker brand worldwide with the HomePod, but its meager sales are not yet impacting major players Google and Amazon.
Both Google and Amazon have been in the smart speaker business for a longer period of time and the two companies also offer speakers at a range of price points. A Google Home speaker, for example, can be purchased for as little as $129 (or $49 for the mini version), while an Amazon Echo costs just $99.99. The Echo Dot is even more affordable at $49.
Apple's sole speaker, the HomePod, is priced at $349. Apple focused heavily on audio quality with the hopes that consumers would be willing to pay more for a device that had superior sound, but the higher price tag, a delayed feature set, and the lack of native support for music services like Spotify have likely stymied Apple's sales.
The HomePod is still new and Apple has just entered the smart speaker market, so improvements and changes to future products could drastically change its position and present some real competition for Amazon and Google. Apple is rumored to be considering a lower-priced HomePod that would perhaps sell for $150 to $200.
Article Link: Apple Sold an Estimated 600,000 HomePod Speakers During the First Quarter of 2018
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I have found this also. I spend a lot more time just listening to music instead of watching TV. It's been nice. I have really liked my HomePod and although some Siri functionality needs to improve, Siri hearing me and understanding me has been really incredible. I can ask Siri to turn off the lights from my bedroom at a normal volume and it is able to hear me and update from down in the living room. I totally agree though, it needs to be integrated with the Apple TV. I would love that.
I think this one will be different. The expectations for speakers is different. The speaker should actually last decades if it is well made. And support should be minimal as a cost since it is all iOS. I'm also thinking this is hardware that doesn't get updated very often (maybe every two years). And the form factor stays the same for many years and even a few generations because you want it to all match as you add these through your smart connected house.
But yeah there is no track record of Apple supporting something with software updates that long. So I may be dreaming here.
Just wanted to leave this here for those that look at that number without doing the math:
600,000 == $209,400,000
factor what you want as Apple's cost.
Personally, I don't think that is bad at all, and possibly rivals the others' numbers in actual sale value rather than sale quantity.
600,000 == $209,400,000
factor what you want as Apple's cost.
Personally, I don't think that is bad at all, and possibly rivals the others' numbers in actual sale value rather than sale quantity.
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Amazon is now added to the list. Every company in the market space of Apple should go away, so that Apple can have monopoly and charge 10k for an iPhone. But then, the fans will line up to buy it. I hope fans realize that it's no more Steve's company. Apple has become like many of those companies whose first priority is it's own bottom line!
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Again I'm right with you on speaker longevity. Speakers can sound great 10+ years later. There's no reason these can't sound pretty much as good as they sound in 2018 in 2028. I just don't envision Apple viewing this- or any product- like that. It's just not the (beancounter dominated incarnation of) Apple way.
There's no major technological reason that it can't be done. It's just a money thing. If it was just a speaker- much more like the iPod HiFi product from about 10+ years ago, I'd foresee 10+ years of life out of it without any question. But the marriage of its "smarts" and its thorough lockdown within its "smarts" does- IMO- doom it to pretty much begging for a replacement model transaction in just a few years.
Something very important to its use will "require" a new model purchase. Think about how often some software-updatable feature is spun as requiring new Apple hardware to work. Then the hackers get a crack at it and find they can turn it on and make it work with existing Apple hardware just fine. I just can't see this as being any different. Much like with that hacker-enabled example, there's probably already something in the pipeline that will be spun out as some crucial new feature of HP2 that has pretty much no reason not to be able to work with HP1... except Apple will choose to NOT "turn it on" for HP1.
I don't even want that to come off as a bash- just offering a personal opinion based upon historical corporate choices with other Apple software advances that didn't actually require new hardware being spun as only available on new hardware... even after the hackers crack it and prove that it works just fine with the existing. The money- not consumer utility- rules. Since consumers as a group keep rewarding such decisions by pushing results to new records, I doubt Apple can even see any such thinking as wrong: records are broken, everybody gets their (bigger) bonuses, the press lauds amazing results, the fans work overtime spinning even bad-for-consumers decisions as good (or blaming the consumers pointing out the issues), etc.
I’ve seen a lot of posts talking about if the HomePod is profitable or not. With one small caveat, I don’t really care very much if it is. The ONLY reason that I care at all is because products that don’t make enough money get dropped. This is why there aren’t any Apple monitors or routers anymore.
I don’t know what product the HomePod is really trying to compete with. Apple itself has said its more like Sonos than an Amazon or Google competitor. But it’s not music service agnostic like Sonos is, and it can’t be set up as a surround sound system like Sonos can, and there isn’t a way to play records or cd’s or tapes or OTA radio stations, or music stored in the format of my choice on my personal computer, all of which you can do with Sonos. Sound quality is very subjective, what one person thinks is great another may think is only ok or even terrible. And that is the ONLY area that Apple is claiming to be better than its self proclaimed rival: Sound Quality. And I know sometime this year it will probably be fixed but right now you can’t hook 2 HomePods together to get stereo.
I personally think Apple is either blind or in denial when they say that they are not competing in the personal assistant category but since that’s the official Apple position I won’t compare Apple to Google to Amazon. I don’t trust any of these companies to really respect their customers privacy and I have no way of using their product while preventing data collection so I have no intention of using anyone’s device in that category anyway.
I don’t know what product the HomePod is really trying to compete with. Apple itself has said its more like Sonos than an Amazon or Google competitor. But it’s not music service agnostic like Sonos is, and it can’t be set up as a surround sound system like Sonos can, and there isn’t a way to play records or cd’s or tapes or OTA radio stations, or music stored in the format of my choice on my personal computer, all of which you can do with Sonos. Sound quality is very subjective, what one person thinks is great another may think is only ok or even terrible. And that is the ONLY area that Apple is claiming to be better than its self proclaimed rival: Sound Quality. And I know sometime this year it will probably be fixed but right now you can’t hook 2 HomePods together to get stereo.
I personally think Apple is either blind or in denial when they say that they are not competing in the personal assistant category but since that’s the official Apple position I won’t compare Apple to Google to Amazon. I don’t trust any of these companies to really respect their customers privacy and I have no way of using their product while preventing data collection so I have no intention of using anyone’s device in that category anyway.
I think the speaker might work for a long while as most speakers do,but if Apple felt confident in its long lasting abilities they would have adjusted the manufacturer warranty accordingly and used that in marketing too.
Exactly. Apple made $13.8 billion in net income during the March 2018 QUARTER, while Amazon's total net income since the company started is $9.6B.
Amazon is a great company, but they lose money on everything except AWS.
The strategy has worked for Amazon, but what happens when competition creeps in and starts eroding AWS margin?
yup. thats why I was talking about Home AUtomation Tools and not just Smart speakers as the category thats blowing up. I think the Google and Alexa products are doing so well because currently they integrate far better into automation than HomeKit does. There are tools in place to provide parity on the software side. But the one thing in common for most of these home automation implementaitons is some form of voice control interface. If this is the primary purchasing reason for these smart speakers, than a $50 smart speaker is just as useful as a $350 smart speaker. it's just the interface device for the automation.
if Apple is focusing on being a speaker first and foremost (again, nothing wrong with this, it's a business decision), it would explain though why it's having a harder time breaking into the home automation segment. for primary use as a interface device, it's too costly.
however, it's priced right in line with other mid/high range wireless speakers. So this makes me believe that Apple focused its attention on competing in the speaker realm, not the automation realm. the automation it supports is secondary.
I've been building myself some automation / controls. I picked up a Google Mini BECAUSE it was $50. I'm not looking for a speaker for music aand audio quality. I was looking for a speaker / mike to control my home automation. I don't need a $350 device to do that