Apple Staff Complain About Plans for Return to Office Work in Letter to Tim Cook

[thatsmyfish]

So all of these hundreds of years of societal development came from the millions of people working at home and apart from all their fellow coworkers because "Workers do not work best in person" 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣 Let me get you a chair.......you need to have a seat.

I’ll try to break this down again for you. You didn’t grasp it the first time.

Children learn best in person because learning is best facilitated by in-person, socialized action.

Adults, being educated and socialized, are more than capable of working independently, via phone or by video chat. This is indisputable, which is one of the reasons Apple, focused on earning as much money as possible, has no issue with a three day, in person work week.

I wouldn’t think I’d need to say this, but apparently I do. They have not had phones and video chat for hundreds of years. 😎

 

[Ethosik]

Perhaps indeed related but on the macOS side Catalina must have been developed well before the epidemic began and is a pretty poor one too. They just have weak releases once in a while.

Anyway, that campus does not look like a pleasant place to be unless you like your open offices on a massive scale and somewhere far outside town. Obviously the people in favor of having everyone return to the office will be managers and others who's job is to be in your face all day. Usually same ones who think removing all partitions makes people 'connect' more. I guess setups like these at least boost the sales of noise cancelling headphones.

Its just the agile mentality in software development these days. Being in software development and being part of several companies in the past few years, all quality has dipped due to release stuff now. Windows 10 is no different than Apple, every big update I run into odd issues and it takes several patches to get fixed. And even some of the patches cause issues. This has been happening since the first big update to Windows 10. RTM Windows 10 was amazing, and I spent $1,000 buying up copies and telling everyone to upgrade for free from Windows 7. Then the big update hit and on several computers, I had a lot of problems. Then the next big update came out, same story. Windows 10 has been a mess of poor quality too.

Video Games, Adobe software, Visual Studio and more stuff I update/buy day one always has problems. There was one Adobe update earlier this year that caused issues with 5700XT graphics cards so I essentially could not use the latest version of Premiere Pro or After Effects.

I think all companies need to just slow down. Microsoft, Apple, Adobe included. Go back to releasing a product every couple of years instead of several releases a year or one big release a year.

 

[Ethosik]

Calling them spoiled bratz is pure ignorance. The pandemic is a once in a lifetime opportunity to learn new ways of living and working. With the internet we have new opportunities to create a better world, and the pandemic has learned most people a valuable lesson we simply can’t ignore. Working from home for more than a year has given me more quality time with my family, less stress and way more energy towards my work than ever before. I save 1.5 hours of transport every day which goes to the above. Think about the decrease in pollution, decrease in stress related illnesses, which costs society huge amounts of money. Its win win for everbody. Let people decide and trust each other. And stop the trolling stating people will use it as an excuse to slack at home (thief thinks everyone steals).

I do not know why people would disagree with a comment like this. I have actually been more healthy since working from home. My nerves are always highly elevated the second I get behind a wheel of a car. So my blood pressure was high while I was driving to and from work all the time.

 

[cmaier]

I bet a few workers thought they’d move out of the Bay Area and save some money. This was always shortsighted thinking.

I know one who moved to Sacramento.

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Hiring permanently remote people living in America very quickly turns into hiring remote people working in developing countries.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I do not know why people would disagree with a comment like this. I have actually been more healthy since working from home. My nerves are always highly elevated the second I get behind a wheel of a car. So my blood pressure was high while I was driving to and from work all the time.

I haven't seen anyone here equivocally state that one should never work from home or remotely. The focus has been on the letter employees who want a separate sets of guidelines applied to them. I think they got used to working from home and now they don't want to have any accountability in the office like the rest of the staff, including Cook.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

Hiring permanently remote people living in America very quickly turns into hiring remote people working in developing countries.

It’ll probably start with hiring people in cheaper areas since companies pay you based off of where you live but yea, people don’t realize this is the logical conclusion.

 

[Ethosik]

Sure and having that refirigerator with in arms reach every day while rolling out of bed onto your desk and walking 5 feet to the bathroom is great for your health. Have u seen the sizes of people now? Yikes

Stress can do more harm to a body than people realize. Driving makes me uber stressful, and a lot of people feel this way. I no longer have to drive 1.5 hours (both ways) for my job. I do not need to wake up 1=2 hours before I leave the house anymore too. So instead of having to get up at 5 AM to be awake and get to my job at 8 AM, now I can wake up at 7 AM and log in to my work at 8 AM.

 

[InuNacho]

I bet a few workers thought they’d move out of the Bay Area and save some money. This was always shortsighted thinking.

The more transplants going back home the better.

 

[thatsmyfish]

Absolute crybabies. Hire me Apple as an SWE, I’ll come in every day of the week.

This right here is exactly the problem. You’re moaning and whining that these employees are lazy and could be replaced in a second, and if they hired you, you’d work without complaint.

You could have applied to work at Apple all this time. You haven’t. Do you even live in the vicinity of Cupertino? Are you remotely qualified for the job, and if you applied and were hired, would you even accept the position?

Apple isn’t hiring fry cooks. They’re looking for talented, educated workers living in a specific geographic area who are easily poached by competitors offering strong compensation packages. Apple could lose these employees easily, and it’s actually in their best interest to widen the net a bit. They just spent a lot of money on a pre-Covid HQ and weren’t expecting telework to actually, you know, work so well.

 

[Ethosik]

I haven't seen anyone here equivocally state that one should never work from home or remotely. The focus has been on the letter employees who want a separate sets of guidelines applied to them. I think they got used to working from home and now they don't want to have any accountability in the office like the rest of the staff, including Cook.

Someone thumbs down the comment I replied to, that was my reply - why would someone thumbs down that comment? So yes, it seems people here are stating one should never work from home.

 

[4jasontv]

Hiring permanently remote people living in America very quickly turns into hiring remote people working in developing countries.

Yea. Remote working will make it a lot harder to exclude people based on the neighborhood they grew up in.

 

[Silverstring]

Welcome to corporate America and human nature.

Doesn’t make it better or correct.

 

[thermal]

As a nurse, I can only dream of 'Three days of in person work a week', with the rest being from home. This comes across as severe entitlement. You have to choose between family and work if you go in three days a week? What do you think the rest of the working world does every single day? Try working overnight shifts, double shifts, weekends etc on a regular basis. Bloody hell.

 

[jz0309]

a real double-edge sword ... there are certain jobs that simply cannot be done effectively remotely, and there are some that can ... an arbitrary call when to work where is not the best answer but what else can a company ask for?
I think Apple is offering some flexibility, other companies simply ask for people back in the office ... It really should be pushed down to the team level, but even though COVID lasted 18 months, people still have to learn a lot on how to work together remotely ...

 

[Ethosik]

No I don't think those emails would be any better in that building or at home. But I don't give a fart about people who think just because they picked a drone job they should be treated differently than others who have to actually check in to reality and put in some actual work. So our opinions will never align unfortunately, can't be screaming about "Inclusivity" and then exclude yourself because it's more convenient for YOU.

Speaking about the ACTUAL LETTER and not the topic of working from home. You think employees should NOT be allowed to express their desires to keep working from home? Why? What is the issue with this letter? By the time my work announces something similar, I will also voice my opinions on the matter. You are an employee of a business, you can definitely express concerns about something.

 

[4jasontv]

What the hell? As a nurse, I can only dream of 'Three days of in person work a week', with the rest being from home. This reads of severe entitlement.

I am sure flight attendants feel the same way. Maybe this doesn't apply to *your* job?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Someone thumbs down the comment I replied to, that was my reply - why would someone thumbs down that comment? So yes, it seems people here are stating one should never work from home.

I don't know the reasoning for the thumbs down on your post. If the reason was against any remote for any reason, I disagree. You could say it is raining where I live right now' and there will be people on the forum thumbs down the post. Crazy stuff on MR a lot of the time. lol

 

[ZipZap]

This cannot be unexpected. It cost a lot of money to build that Apple ring.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

Nobody wants to breath in recirculated artificial air 8 hours a day... .

That's great for those who are returning, considering Apple HQ is the world’s largest naturally ventilated building.

 

[szw-mapple fan]

spoiled overpaid brats

Who are more than qualified for jobs for similar or more pay at other companies that can accommodate them.

 

[Ethosik]

People who work on site are significantly healthier is...an argument.

Apple should add a new workout type to the watch—walk 5 steps to car, walk 20 steps to desk, walk 15 steps to office bathroom, walk 5 steps to car, walk 5 steps to home door. What a fitness routine!

Also, I don't know many people who have toilets in their home office...do you? I'm confident there's not a huge fitness impact from desk-to-bathroom distance at work vs at home, but perhaps you work in a REALLY spread out office?

I have a few now-remote friends who get at-home workouts in during work breaks—like hopping on their Peloton, or yoga—something they didn't and couldn't do if they went in (no shower, no gym in office building, etc). Also, working remote means they can cook at home meals that are healthier, rather than quickly shoving down delivery in between meetings.

People who prioritize health will do so, people who don't, won't. To pin the difference on remote work is a TREMENDOUS stretch. Who's to say they didn't get fatter from every other environment change (not going on walks with friends, not playing in a rec softball league, not running errands, etc)?

Yes, I do not know how working in the office = healthier. Have some of these people that make this argument been to an office before? Group lunches are always "Lets go to McDonalds/Wendys/BurgerKing/whatever". I have severely limited my "bad for your health" lunches since working from home. Making my own sandwiches and things.

Not everyone is the same. Yes, some people have 5 kids, 4 dogs and 3 cats that impact their work. But not everyone is like this. I am single, have no pets, have a dedicated office to cut down on distractions. My productivity shot through the roof working from home. You think productivity will INCREASE when people get back to the office? It will take a nose dive especially at the start "Hey Tom, been a while since we saw each other huh, nice beard!" - then talking for 10+ minutes. Then someone else stops Tom for another 10 minutes. Working from home, if I am busy with something and someone sends me a Slack message, I can ignore it for a few minutes until I finish my thought. Instead of being "stopped in the hall" and lose my train of thought.

 

[1Peace]

On the other side of the bridge Microsoft let it’s employees work from home permanently.

 

[Phil77354]

Remote working is not only about whether or not workers can be equally productive when working from home vs working in the office.

It also has to recognize that not all workers are equally responsible in working effectively when at home. Some are, others will abuse it and not be putting in the same effort they would, if at the office.

Managing that is a new challenge that companies are still working out. Some workers may be more suited to remote working, others may be directed to return to working at the office simply because they did not demonstrate the discipline required when working remotely.

My own company is in the process of returning workers to office work, and anyone who is still working remotely is also expected to be available at the office on reasonable notice (1 hour, generally) if something comes up that requires their physical presence.

I began working in my office even before my company asked that I make that change (and they still have not, formally). And I have no objection in being required to return to the office full time if that is what the company decides is required. I expect that the telework option will continue to be available, for example during those occasional times when weather or other conditions make office work problematic.

There are pros and cons to office work and telework, neither is what I would call perfect.

 

[Silverstring]

I think they got used to working from home and now they don't want to have any accountability in the office like the rest of the staff, including Cook.

What kind of accountability are you talking about?

Accountability for their productivity work output? To their key performance indicators?

Or “accountability” in the sense of “if I don’t see my worker bees at their desks, how do I know they’re not sneaking a peek at Netflix for 22 minutes”?

Employees don’t need a surveillance state to produce. An insecure/distrusting/control freak manager only thinks they do


An long as an employee produces what they were hired to produce and fulfills their responsibilities, I don’t need to watch them do it.

A lot of the responses in this thread make me wonder what kinds of jobs certain commenters have.

If work productivity declines, you should have WAY more quantitive and qualitative indicators that that is happening other than “Jim wasn’t in his cube from 9 to 5 today…how do we know if he’s working?!?”

I don’t wish for anyone to lose their livelihoods, but if there are positions in any knowledge work-based company where you can’t assess the value and/or amount of someone’s output other than “I didn’t see them”, I question the need for those positions to even exist at all, on site OR remote.