Apple Stops Signing iOS 16.3.1 to Prevent Downgrading

[FeliApple]

My point about the battery pack was not clear and was not meant to make up for “supposed deficiencies” but to make sure one has battery power when they need it.

If your routine is such that you are within 15 feet of a charger all day…you don’t need a battery pack. But if you are like many commuters, ride public transit, varying signal quality, run out of juice your job stops…why risk it? Take along a battery pack. When I ride the rails 50 miles to the big city I would never assume my battery will last one commuters day.

Yeah, sure, I take battery packs when I need them. I just don’t think that this is an acceptable situation:
-Early iOS version: no battery pack
-Updated: battery pack inevitably required

The Xʀ gets 12 hours of full LTE use on iOS 12. Definitely enough for me.

If the situation is more:
-Early iOS version: battery pack required sometimes
-Updated: battery pack always required

Then yeah, with what I’ve seen of iOS 16’s battery impact on the iPhone X onwards... it wouldn’t matter much.

The only thing I can think of is that as battery health actually matters if updated, that will have an impact eventually.

So yeah, too many words to say that I agree: if battery packs are required anyway, well, that weakens the main reason to stay behind in iOS updates (as of the iPhone Xʀ onwards on iOS 16. Future versions may impact performance or battery life enough to shred this. And for the sake of a counter-example: the iPhone 6s. Slightly degraded iPhone 6s batteries are useless, and the device goes from being enough for light to moderate users on iOS 10 to being unusable with anything that’s not a new battery. Totally unsustainable).

I personally believe I shouldn’t go from not ever requiring them to constantly needing them just due to an abhorrent update. That said, the argument can be made that “if you need a battery pack anyway, why not update and - as long as you’re fine with performance - enjoy the benefits of app compatibility?”

Then again, I think this has always been clear: I’ve long stated that the current issue is primarily battery life. If the user is fine with mitigating the issue with battery packs, then updating has fewer harmful consequences with newer devices (for that user in particular).

This is what happened with my 9.7-inch iPad Pro: even though iOS 12 significantly degraded battery life, I use it at home, and I have access to power outlets. Battery life is decent enough anyway (it dropped from 14 hours to 10-11), so it’s not too bad.
Go extreme and it might: iPadOS 16 users report around 4-5 hours. That’s unacceptable to me, even with access to power outlets. But 10-11? I can deal with that. So the actual impact wasn’t catastrophic, it’s just that I don’t need iOS 12, and I gave away that battery life - and a little performance - for nothing.

 

[I7guy]

Here’s my take:

Yeah, sure, I take battery packs when I need them. I just don’t think that this is an acceptable situation:
-Early iOS version: no battery pack
-Updated: battery pack inevitably required

- Early version of iOS: battery pack required sometimes
- updated: battery pack required sometimes

The Xʀ gets 12 hours of full LTE use on iOS 12. Definitely enough for me.

Got or gets today with a 4 year old battery? What does that mean? You can today watch YouTube videos in a dark room next to a WiFi router fir 12 hours? Or you can watch YouTube videos on lte jn the sun for 12 hours? What is your use case for 12 hours of lte or is it just from the spec sheet?

If the situation is more:
-Early iOS version: battery pack required sometimes
-Updated: battery pack always required

It’s still “updated:” battery pack sometimes required.

Then yeah, with what I’ve seen of iOS 16’s battery impact on the iPhone X onwards... it wouldn’t matter much.

The only thing I can think of is that as battery health actually matters if updated, that will have an impact eventually.

So yeah, too many words to say that I agree: if battery packs are required anyway, well, that weakens the main reason to stay behind in iOS updates (as of the iPhone Xʀ onwards on iOS 16. Future versions may impact performance or battery life enough to shred this. And for the sake of a counter-example: the iPhone 6s. Slightly degraded iPhone 6s batteries are useless, and the device goes from being enough for light to moderate users on iOS 10 to being unusable with anything that’s not a new battery. Totally unsustainable).

The 6s, an 8 year old phone, falls outside the “not really affected by iOS from the iPhone X and up”.

I personally believe I shouldn’t go from not ever requiring them to constantly needing them just due to an abhorrent update. That said, the argument can be made that “if you need a battery pack anyway, why not update and - as long as you’re fine with performance - enjoy the benefits of app compatibility?”

That’s true. As I noted when I bought my Xs max I still carried a battery pack. The motto: “ be prepared” comes to mind.

Then again, I think this has always been clear: I’ve long stated that the current issue is primarily battery life. If the user is fine with mitigating the issue with battery packs, then updating has fewer harmful consequences with newer devices (for that user in particular).

Yes to SOME there is a battery life issue. Others claim not. It falls under YMMV.

This is what happened with my 9.7-inch iPad Pro: even though iOS 12 significantly degraded battery life, I use it at home, and I have access to power outlets. Battery life is decent enough anyway (it dropped from 14 hours to 10-11), so it’s not too bad.
Go extreme and it might: iPadOS 16 users report around 4-5 hours. That’s unacceptable to me, even with access to power outlets. But 10-11? I can deal with that. So the actual impact wasn’t catastrophic, it’s just that I don’t need iOS 12, and I gave away that battery life - and a little performance - for nothing.

We’ll no. It wasn’t for nothing. More functionality, fixes for vulnerabilities. It wasn’t for nothing.

 

[FeliApple]

Here’s my take:

- Early version of iOS: battery pack required sometimes
- updated: battery pack required sometimes

Not for me, no. I’ve never needed a battery pack on iOS 12. With 16 hours of light use on Wi-Fi and 11-12 hours of moderate LTE use, I don’t need a battery pack.

Got or gets today with a 4 year old battery? What does that mean? You can today watch YouTube videos in a dark room next to a WiFi router fir 12 hours? Or you can watch YouTube videos on lte jn the sun for 12 hours? What is your use case for 12 hours of lte or is it just from the spec sheet?

My usage is web browsing, reading, texting mostly, with very occasional video and camera (emphasis on very occasional) but with LTE and higher brightness that drops to 12 hours, perhaps 11-12 to account for some logical variability.

Full brightness low-signal LTE video watching would not get 12 hours, I thought that was established. I mentioned that 12.9-inch iPad Pros get 4 hours of moderate to heavy full brightness use. Full brightness kills batteries, regardless of the iOS version. There’s no device that can get that.

Battery life has not dropped since the phone was new. Like I said: battery health is largely irrelevant if the device isn’t updated. Due to my usage, it will most likely not drop for a very long time.

It’s still “updated:” battery pack sometimes required.

For the iPhone Xʀ onwards? Sure, it is.

The 6s, an 8 year old phone, falls outside the “not really affected by iOS from the iPhone X and up”.

I wrote this so poorly, sorry. I meant:
The iPhone Xʀ isn’t done yet with iOS updates. The current degradation number isn’t high. But Apple isn’t done degrading it yet. Should the final number be anywhere near, say, 30%, that will be significant.

That’s true. As I noted when I bought my Xs max I still carried a battery pack. The motto: “ be prepared” comes to mind.

Sure, if you think it could be required.

Yes to SOME there is a battery life issue. Others claim not. It falls under YMMV.

The issue is there, undeniably. Not as awful as on the 6s through 8, sure. But it’s there. And like I said: Apple isn’t done degrading yet.

We’ll no. It wasn’t for nothing. More functionality, fixes for vulnerabilities. It wasn’t for nothing.

I do not want that. I just want my performance and battery life back. Apple forced my iPad out of iOS 9, I didn’t even choose to update.

 

[I7guy]

Not for me, no. I’ve never needed a battery pack on iOS 12. With 16 hours of light use on Wi-Fi and 11-12 hours of moderate LTE use, I don’t need a battery pack.

That’s my point I did back then in 2018. It’s really amazing that a four year old phone today can have the screen on for 12 hours straight. I know we all have our priorities but for me functionality is my priority not battery life.

My usage is web browsing, reading, texting mostly, with very occasional video and camera (emphasis on very occasional) but with LTE and higher brightness that drops to 12 hours, perhaps 11-12 to account for some logical variability.

As I just said it’s amazing a 5 year old
Phone can manage 12 hours of screen on one charge.

Full brightness low-signal LTE video watching would not get 12 hours, I thought that was established. I mentioned that 12.9-inch iPad Pros get 4 hours of moderate to heavy full brightness use. Full brightness kills batteries, regardless of the iOS version. There’s no device that can get that.

Yes I’m only referring to the xr.

Battery life has not dropped since the phone was new. Like I said: battery health is largely irrelevant if the device isn’t updated. Due to my usage, it will most likely not drop for a very long time.

Battery life hasn’t dropped? You mean after 5 years you are still at 100%? I know the max want as good with screen time as the xr however I found I needed a battery pack from the beginning when I commute.

For the iPhone Xʀ onwards? Sure, it is.

I wrote this so poorly, sorry. I meant:
The iPhone Xʀ isn’t done yet with iOS updates. The current degradation number isn’t high. But Apple isn’t done degrading it yet. Should the final number be anywhere near, say, 30%, that will be significant.

Sure, if you think it could be required.

The issue is there, undeniably. Not as awful as on the 6s through 8, sure. But it’s there. And like I said: Apple isn’t done degrading yet.

That word undeniably is the word I take issue with and label that subjective. It’s undeniable for you.

I do not want that. I just want my performance and battery life back. Apple forced my iPad out of iOS 9, I didn’t even choose to update.

Unexpected things happen with consumer electronics.

 

[FeliApple]

That’s my point I did back then in 2018. It’s really amazing that a four year old phone today can have the screen on for 12 hours straight. I know we all have our priorities but for me functionality is my priority not battery life.

It is! It’s even more amazing that a 63% health iPhone 6s has basically like-new battery life, seven years later on iOS 10.

As I just said it’s amazing a 5 year old
Phone can manage 12 hours of screen on one charge.

Everything I have experienced with every iOS device I’ve ever used leads me to believe that it will not drop. Never is too much of a word, so I’d use “it will not drop for a very, very long time”.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro had the battery life drop I mentioned immediately after being forcibly updated by Apple into iOS 12, but it has remained stable ever since. Seven years old, just like the iPhone.

This is a demonstration of why I believe so fervently that iOS updates are at fault: A9 devices have been obliterated by iOS 15 and iPadOS 16. My less-updated devices are fine, many years after I started using them. The only significant battery life degradation I’ve seen on that iPad has been immediately after updating, event after which battery life stabilised, never to decrease. It’s been almost four years, and almost seven since purchase date.

Yes I’m only referring to the xr.

That heavy of a use will probably obliterate my Xʀ on iOS 12 too! That part is iOS version-agnostic, I think.

Battery life hasn’t dropped? You mean after 5 years you are still at 100%? I know the max want as good with screen time as the xr however I found I needed a battery pack from the beginning when I commute.

Battery health has dropped, battery life (i.e., screen-on and standby time) hasn’t. Like I said, this is normal on non-updated devices.

That word undeniably is the word I take issue with and label that subjective. It’s undeniable for you.

This is our core disagreement: I am sure it isn’t. I am sure that no iOS 16 user can match my battery life, minute-by-minute.

The degradation as far as iOS 16 goes on the Xʀ isn’t severe, like I said, but it isn’t the same as it was on iOS 12. Maybe it’s 15% worse. We would both agree here I think: that number cannot be considered significant, and to the vast majority of users, it wouldn’t matter. But the degradation is there, as insignificant as it may be. I am sure that that degradation will only increase as major iOS versions go by.

The same may happen with the Xs Max: maybe it’s 15% worse than one on iOS 12. It isn’t as good.

You’ve repeatedly stated that “it’s a full day phone for me”, and it might as well be (a 15% drop in screen-on time isn’t awful even for someone as stringent as me), but it isn’t as good as it was. Even if only slightly worse (as of now).

Unexpected things happen with consumer electronics.

Agreed. It was the only time it happened, and it obliterated my favourite iOS combo ever (iPhone 6s and 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9). An indefensible situation, because of the same issue. You don’t allow downgrading? Don’t deactivate my device just because you don’t feel like fixing an abhorrent bug. You don’t let me downgrade. You force updates. A one-time bug? Sure. A one time bug which forced everything I had back then. Planned obsolescence by definition (of A9 devices).

 

[I7guy]

It is! It’s even more amazing that a 63% health iPhone 6s has basically like-new battery life, seven years later on iOS 10.

Not really. The 6s cannot perform as a modern phone. So it has a very limited use case, which makes a comparison not very useful.

Everything I have experienced with every iOS device I’ve ever used leads me to believe that it will not drop. Never is too much of a word, so I’d use “it will not drop for a very, very long time”.

My 9.7-inch iPad Pro had the battery life drop I mentioned immediately after being forcibly updated by Apple into iOS 12, but it has remained stable ever since. Seven years old, just like the iPhone.

This is a demonstration of why I believe so fervently that iOS updates are at fault: A9 devices have been obliterated by iOS 15 and iPadOS 16. My less-updated devices are fine, many years after I started using them. The only significant battery life degradation I’ve seen on that iPad has been immediately after updating, event after which battery life stabilised, never to decrease. It’s been almost four years, and almost seven since purchase date.

You’re within the right to your opinion, but you can’t project your opinion to my devices. You have no factual information and neither do I.

That heavy of a use will probably obliterate my Xʀ on iOS 12 too! That part is iOS version-agnostic, I think.

Battery health has dropped, battery life (i.e., screen-on and standby time) hasn’t. Like I said, this is normal on non-updated devices.

This is our core disagreement: I am sure it isn’t. I am sure that no iOS 16 user can match my battery life, minute-by-minute.

There is no way to prove or disprove anything related to this discussion. You can only speak for your experiences.

The degradation as far as iOS 16 goes on the Xʀ isn’t severe, like I said, but it isn’t the same as it was on iOS 12. Maybe it’s 15% worse. We would both agree here I think: that number cannot be considered significant, and to the vast majority of users, it wouldn’t matter. But the degradation is there, as insignificant as it may be. I am sure that that degradation will only increase as major iOS versions go by.

Are you discussing the xr or my Xs max? I’m maintaining there is the same performance and battery life, such as it was and is.

The same may happen with the Xs Max: maybe it’s 15% worse than one on iOS 12. It isn’t as good.

I understand this is your opinion, but I can’t vouch for it in my usage.

You’ve repeatedly stated that “it’s a full day phone for me”, and it might as well be (a 15% drop in screen-on time isn’t awful even for someone as stringent as me), but it isn’t as good as it was. Even if only slightly worse (as of now).

How could you know? You don’t and you can’t and you can’t generalize as there is no factual evidence.

Agreed. It was the only time it happened, and it obliterated my favourite iOS combo ever (iPhone 6s and 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 9). An indefensible situation, because of the same issue. You don’t allow downgrading? Don’t deactivate my device just because you don’t feel like fixing an abhorrent bug. You don’t let me downgrade. You force updates. A one-time bug? Sure. A one time bug which forced everything I had back then. Planned obsolescence by definition (of A9 devices).

Who is deactivating a device. Apple has never done that and never will. It’s not planned obsolescence, as in a sinister sense. Things do wear out over time. Making them indestructible would also make them unaffordable.

 

[FeliApple]

Not really. The 6s cannot perform as a modern phone. So it has a very limited use case, which makes a comparison not very useful.

You’re within the right to your opinion, but you can’t project your opinion to my devices. You have no factual information and neither do I.

There is no way to prove or disprove anything related to this discussion. You can only speak for your experiences.

Are you discussing the xr or my Xs max? I’m maintaining there is the same performance and battery life, such as it was and is.

Both!

I understand this is your opinion, but I can’t vouch for it in my usage.

How could you know? You don’t and you can’t and you can’t generalize as there is no factual evidence.

All of the above can be summarised as “you can deny it if you like”.

Who is deactivating a device. Apple has never done that and never will. It’s not planned obsolescence, as in a sinister sense. Things do wear out over time. Making them indestructible would also make them unaffordable.

Apple did! It is a specific issue that affects A9 iPhones and iPads on (only) iOS 9.
All A9 devices on iOS 9 are immediately (and forcibly) deactivated, and you cannot bypass it. The only way to bring the device back, is, of course, to update.

A forced deactivation which requires a forced update into a pathetically worse iOS version from which you cannot downgrade == forced obsolescence.

All other devices on every other iOS version are fine. It’s that specific combo.

 

[I7guy]

Both!

All of the above can be summarised as “you can deny it if you like”.

Yes, what’s good For the goose is good for the gander: “you can deny it if you like”… which is basically your opinion is wrong whilst my opinion is right. Daft dare I say.

Apple did! It is a specific issue that affects A9 iPhones and iPads on (only) iOS 9.
All A9 devices on iOS 9 are immediately (and forcibly) deactivated, and you cannot bypass it. The only way to bring the device back, is, of course, to update.

Was this malicious or a bug because intent matters.

A forced deactivation which requires a forced update into a pathetically worse iOS version from which you cannot downgrade == forced obsolescence.

All other devices on every other iOS version are fine. It’s that specific combo.

Haven’t heard about if before. Did this only affect you?

 

[FeliApple]

Yes, what’s good For the goose is good for the gander: “you can deny it if you like”… which is basically your opinion is wrong whilst my opinion is right. Daft dare I say.

I’ve stated that this is one topic in which we have distinctly different views. And it’s okay, sometimes it’s not easy to find middle ground everywhere.

Was this malicious or a bug because intent matters.

Haven’t heard about if before. Did this only affect you?

The cause is rather unclear. Intent is unclear.

I fully admit I’m speculating, but I heard of this issue about a year before it happened. This issue has been present since 2018. I am sure Apple has heard about it. If it is a bug, Apple is at fault for not fixing it. I mean, bricking a whole iOS version deserves a little priority, I think.

If it is a bug, it’s forced obsolescence.

If it is on purpose, it’s both forced and planned obsolescence.

Here’s a little info on this specific issue:

Of course, Apple has always been silent on this issue, which only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[I7guy]

I’ve stated that this is one topic in which we have distinctly different views. And it’s okay, sometimes it’s not easy to find middle ground everywhere.

It’s okay to disagree but what is not okay is to say outright “you’re in denial”. Not only is that disingenuous but the only retort becomes “and so are you” —- not leading to any meaningful discussion.

The cause is rather unclear. Intent is unclear.

A bug is a bug. Apple presumably fixed what needed to be fixed. You can assign labels as you did below, play the obsolescence card suggest it’s conspiratorial in nature however it’s a bug. A bug is a bug is a bug.

I fully admit I’m speculating, but I heard of this issue about a year before it happened. This issue has been present since 2018. I am sure Apple has heard about it. If it is a bug, Apple is at fault for not fixing it. I mean, bricking a whole iOS version deserves a little priority, I think.

If it is a bug, it’s forced obsolescence.

If it is on purpose, it’s both forced and planned obsolescence.

Here’s a little info on this specific issue:

Of course, Apple has always been silent on this issue, which only adds fuel to the fire.

 

[FeliApple]

It’s okay to disagree but what is not okay is to say outright “you’re in denial”. Not only is that disingenuous but the only retort becomes “and so are you” —- not leading to any meaningful discussion.

It’s basically you saying that there is no degradation from the X onwards, and me saying there is. Difficult to state anything else.
But on that specific point, you are right.

A bug is a bug. Apple presumably fixed what needed to be fixed. You can assign labels as you did below, play the obsolescence card suggest it’s conspiratorial in nature however it’s a bug. A bug is a bug is a bug.

No. Apple did not fix anything. This is indefensible.

While I disagree with each and every argument that says Apple should prevent downgrades, there are arguments that are possible.

In this case, there aren’t.

We don’t even know whether it is a bug. Like I said, the root cause remains unknown and is irrelevant. Maybe there’s a reason for which Apple does not want A9 devices on iOS 9, and frankly I do not care about it at all. It is abhorrent regardless.

The options are obvious:
-An activation server issue. If this is the case, Apple has to fix it. If they don’t fix it, it’s forced obsolescence.

-A deliberate deactivation for an unknown reason. I don’t care what the reason is, they are wrong. If they deliberately deactivated it, it’s both forced and planned obsolescence.

With every other device, I can fight Apple’s utterly pathetic, nonsensical, planned obsolescence-inducing iOS update policy by staying on a device’s original iOS version. With A9 devices I can’t. That’s solely Apple’s fault.

 

[I7guy]

It’s basically you saying that there is no degradation from the X onwards, and me saying there is. Difficult to state anything else.
But on that specific point, you are right.

That is correct we disagree on that point. And there is no factual proof either way. Maybe only some fake YouTube videos or anecdotal evidence.

No. Apple did not fix anything. This is indefensible.

How do you know apple didn’t fix anything? Because it happened to you?

While I disagree with each and every argument that says Apple should prevent downgrades, there are arguments that are possible.

In this case, there aren’t.

We don’t even know whether it is a bug. Like I said, the root cause remains unknown and is irrelevant. Maybe there’s a reason for which Apple does not want A9 devices on iOS 9, and frankly I do not care about it at all. It is abhorrent regardless.

The options are obvious:
-An activation server issue. If this is the case, Apple has to fix it. If they don’t fix it, it’s forced obsolescence.

-A deliberate deactivation for an unknown reason. I don’t care what the reason is, they are wrong. If they deliberately deactivated it, it’s both forced and planned obsolescence.

With every other device, I can fight Apple’s utterly pathetic, nonsensical, planned obsolescence-inducing iOS update policy by staying on a device’s original iOS version. With A9 devices I can’t. That’s solely Apple’s fault.

Yes lots of conspiratorial theories around this. In this case it may be Occam’s razor, a bug.

 

[FeliApple]

How do you know apple didn’t fix anything? Because it happened to you?

Because the issue is still ongoing. Nobody can activate a device on iOS 9 that has an A9 processor.

Yes lots of conspiratorial theories around this. In this case it may be Occam’s razor, a bug.

No conspiracy. Whatever the reason, Apple is at fault, making devices obsolete, by force. Forced and/or planned obsolescence.

The fact that you defend Apple on this indefensible issue begs the question: Do you think that Apple can do anything wrong? Or is anything justifiable?

 

[I7guy]

Because the issue is still ongoing. Nobody can activate a device on iOS 9 that has an A9 processor.

No conspiracy. Whatever the reason, Apple is at fault, making devices obsolete, by force. Forced and/or planned obsolescence.

Apple is not fixing this on iOS 9, apparently. Call it what you want you have to upgrade. Update to a new version of iOS or buy new phone. I dont care.

The fact that you defend Apple on this indefensible issue begs the question: Do you think that Apple can do anything wrong? Or is anything justifiable?

The way I see it, if someone can blame apple, another can defend apple. People blame apple all the time for the things which apple has been doing for years and interestingly enough —- keep buying their products.

 

[FeliApple]

Apple is not fixing this on iOS 9, apparently. Call it what you want you have to upgrade. Update to a new version of iOS or buy new phone. I dont care.

It’s sad that this is the case, by sheer force. The Walled Garden grew firearms and started shooting at some of its inhabitants. Cool, thanks Apple.

The way I see it, if someone can blame apple, another can defend apple. People blame apple all the time for the things which apple has been doing for years and interestingly enough —- keep buying their products.

I take it the answer to the first question is no, then.

Well, if you’ll indulge me, then. Allow me to ask about your thoughts on this:

Do you find Apple’s final updates on 32-bit devices acceptable in terms of performance? By this I mean, an iPhone 4 on iOS 7; an iPhone 4s on iOS 9; and an iPhone 5/5c on iOS 10.

 

[I7guy]

It’s sad that this is the case, by sheer force. The Walled Garden grew firearms and started shooting at some of its inhabitants. Cool, thanks Apple.

Yep. Apple shut off the spigot. Reset your device and you have to upgrade.

I take it the answer to the first question is no, then.

Well maybe it’s no and maybe it’s maybe. No hard and fast rule.

Well, if you’ll indulge me, then. Allow me ask about your thoughts on this:

Do you find Apple’s final updates on 32-bit devices acceptable in terms of performance? By this I mean, an iPhone 4 on iOS 7;

Back then I thought this was at the limit of acceptability. Today I say no. Those 32 hit devices had no headroom. 64 bit devices from the iPhone X and later seemingly have more headroom.

an iPhone 4s on iOS 9; and an iPhone 5/5c on iOS 10.

 

[FeliApple]

Yep. Apple shut off the spigot. Reset your device and you have to upgrade.

This aspect of the issue is the saddest, because I wish it required a reset. Note this: it didn’t even require a reboot. In fact, in requires nothing but Apple’s own malware-forcing process: I was reading an article in Safari, when the iPad rebooted by itself, right into the impossible-to-progress-through activation screen.

That is what I mean by forced obsolescence. It was literally forced.

Of course, an easy solution for Apple (solution for which I’d probably praise Apple forever, honestly) would be to acknowledge the issue, state that iOS 9 cannot work on A9 devices, apologise to those affected... and sign, only for A9-based iOS devices, some version of iOS 10, forever. Of course, this is assuming that there is some unfixable issue with iOS 9.

Otherwise, do the right thing: sign iOS 9 for A9 devices forever (but fix the issue first...)

Well maybe it’s no and maybe it’s maybe. No hard and fast rule.

I think that “Can Apple do anything wrong?” is a yes/no question, but it’s okay. You replied to this afterward anyway.

Back then I thought this was at the limit of acceptability. Today I say no. Those 32 hit devices had no headroom. 64 bit devices from the iPhone X and later seemingly have more headroom.

Well, here’s something else we agree on.

Also: “64 bit devices from the iPhone X and later seemingly have more headroom.” this is true.

 

[I7guy]

This aspect of the issue is the saddest, because I wish it required a reset. Note this: it didn’t even require a reboot. In fact, in requires nothing but Apple’s own malware-forcing process: I was reading an article in Safari, when the iPad rebooted by itself, right into the impossible-to-progress-through activation screen.

Seems like a hardware problem. Ive never had a device reboot and require activation. If it does seems like bug, but you call it by differing names. Still occams razor applies.

That is what I mean by forced obsolescence. It was literally forced.

Yes a bug forced it.

Of course, an easy solution for Apple (solution for which I’d probably praise Apple forever, honestly) would be to acknowledge the issue, state that iOS 9 cannot work on A9 devices, apologise to those affected... and sign, only for A9-based iOS devices, some version of iOS 10, forever. Of course, this is assuming that there is some unfixable issue with iOS 9.

Has that yet happened? Has anyone sued apple? Then you have heard all that apple has had to say on this matter.

Otherwise, do the right thing: sign iOS 9 for A9 devices forever (but fix the issue first...)

I can guess apple ain’t doing this.

I think that “Can Apple do anything wrong?” is a yes/no question, but it’s okay. You replied to this afterward anyway.

Can apple do things right? Yes can apple do things wrong? Yes. Can apple do no wrong? Mostly.

Well, here’s something else we agree on.

Also: “64 bit devices from the iPhone X and later seemingly have more headroom.” this is true.

 

[FeliApple]

Seems like a hardware problem. Ive never had a device reboot and require activation. If it does seems like bug, but you call it by differing names. Still occams razor applies.

Again, it isn’t a hardware issue. It happens to that combo. Why exactly? Nobody knows. All possible options are Apple’s fault and are abhorrent, and all are forced obsolescence.

Yes a bug forced it.

This isn’t clear. Again, if it were a bug (which I honestly doubt), it’s Apple’s fault regardless.

Has that yet happened? Has anyone sued apple? Then you have heard all that apple has had to say on this matter.

I know Apple is happy to obliterate as many iOS devices as possible through their malware called iOS updates, but it won’t stop me from criticising them.

I can guess apple ain’t doing this.

Agreed, unfortunately.

Can apple do things right? Yes can apple do things wrong? Yes. Can apple do no wrong? Mostly.

Interesting perspective. For the record, I think Apple can do great things. Their progress on both performance and battery life (which we both mentioned), how their devices work on their original iOS version (which is always amazing). That deserves praise, and I’ll praise it.

It’s sad that it’s in their power to (very easily) fix my main criticism, yet they choose not to, for no valid reason.

 

[I7guy]

Again, it isn’t a hardware issue. It happens to that combo. Why exactly? Nobody knows. All possible options are Apple’s fault and are abhorrent, and all are forced obsolescence.

This isn’t clear. Again, if it were a bug (which I honestly doubt), it’s Apple’s fault regardless.

So it’s a bug. Bugs happen. Yes there is some low level chatter on the internet, but doesn’t seem to the all that much. Again Occam’s razor applies instead of elaborate conspiracist theories.

I know Apple is happy to obliterate as many iOS devices as possible through their malware called iOS updates, but it won’t stop me from criticising them.

Sure, the universe imo doesn’t care. If the universe cared there would be different options.

Agreed, unfortunately.

Interesting perspective. For the record, I think Apple can do great things. Their progress on both performance and battery life (which we both mentioned), how their devices work on their original iOS version (which is always amazing). That deserves praise, and I’ll praise it.

It’s sad that it’s in their power to (very easily) fix my main criticism, yet they choose not to, for no valid reason.

That’s the issue, maybe apple is listening to my feedback and not yours. My feedback is there is nothing to fix. Hard to tell who apple listens to. And they did that without running their decision through me.

 

[FeliApple]

So it’s a bug. Bugs happen. Yes there is some low level chatter on the internet, but doesn’t seem to the all that much. Again Occam’s razor applies instead of elaborate conspiracist theories.

If people who stay behind on iOS updates are rare, people who stay behind with A9 devices on iOS 9 are even more rare. It’s not clear whether it’s a bug. They could’ve done it on purpose, and I’m not repeating this again.

Sure, the universe imo doesn’t care. If the universe cared there would be different options.



That’s the issue, maybe apple is listening to my feedback and not yours. My feedback is there is nothing to fix. Hard to tell who apple listens to. And they did that without running their decision through me.

I think that this circles back a little: Apple has a chosen policy (which is forced obsolescence), chosen policy from which they will not deviate. If anything, this further helps their pathetic yearly charts.

Considering that Apple’s policy is to convince everyone to update as the first support troubleshooting step regardless of the problem, yes, if it’s a bug, they are happy, and if it isn’t, then they made it happen, therefore they are happy.

I mean, this has been clear from the beginning: Apple doesn’t care about helping people who stay behind in iOS updates in any way, shape, or form; in fact, they’re far more interested in both convincing or forcing us to update than the alternative.

 

[I7guy]

If people who stay behind on iOS updates are rare, people who stay behind with A9 devices on iOS 9 are even more rare. It’s not clear whether it’s a bug. They could’ve done it on purpose, and I’m not repeating this again.

Right because this could have been a bug and not a malicious act. But sure can’t be proven anyway except malicious acts tend to be a mushroom cloud. A9 is 8 years old even though in the iPad 9.7 is 6 years old shouldn’t have released a chip in 2017 that didn’t age well.

I think that this circles back a little: Apple has a chosen policy (which is forced obsolescence),

Apples policy can be up to 7 years support (5s) and then the device is longer supported. Do you expect apple to support every device forever? Your devices wouldn’t be affordable.

chosen policy from which they will not deviate. If anything, this further helps their pathetic yearly charts.

Sure and why not? Law of diminishing returns.

Considering that Apple’s policy is to convince everyone to update as the first support troubleshooting step regardless of the problem,

Sure because it’s easy to troubleshoot a 5 year old operating system.

yes, if it’s a bug, they are happy, and if it isn’t, then they made it happen, therefore they are happy.

Prove which one is which.

I mean, this has been clear from the beginning: Apple doesn’t care about helping people who stay behind in iOS updates in any way, shape, or form, in fact, they’re far more interested in both convincing or forcing us to update than the alternative.

The above is true. But knowing that is the way apple operates you can decide kn how to move into the future.

 

[FeliApple]

Right because this could have been a bug and not a malicious act. But sure can’t be proven anyway except malicious acts tend to be a mushroom cloud. A9 is 8 years old even though in the iPad 9.7 is 6 years old shouldn’t have released a chip in 2017 that didn’t age well.

The A9 did age well, far better than earlier chips. It is a malicious act, one more time.

Apples policy can be up to 7 years support (5s) and then the device is longer supported. Do you expect apple to support every device forever? Your devices wouldn’t be affordable.

By now it should be clear that I’d be happy with no support at all. I’d prefer that! No updates released. Perfection forever, and Apple can’t force me out? Yes! Where do I sign?

Sure and why not? Law of diminishing returns.

I don’t know what you mean here.

Sure because it’s easy to troubleshoot a 5 year old operating system.

Sometimes it’s just a matter of a settings issue. As an example: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/please-help-most-of-my-storage-disappeared.2089545/

Prove which one is which.

I have replied to this earlier.

The above is true. But knowing that is the way apple operates you can decide kn how to move into the future.

I like my approach. Original iOS versions everywhere, forever.

 

[I7guy]

The A9 did age well, far better than earlier chips. It is a malicious act, one more time.

By now it should be clear that I’d be happy with no support at all. I’d prefer that! No updates released. Perfection forever, and Apple can’t force me out? Yes! Where do I sign?

I don’t know what you mean here.

Sometimes it’s just a matter of a settings issue. As an example: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/please-help-most-of-my-storage-disappeared.2089545/

I have replied to this earlier.

I like my approach. Original iOS versions everywhere, forever.

The A9 didn't really age well as evidenced by your iphone 6s is more of a brick than a phone. Sure it can do a limited number of things and get decent battery life as long as the boundaries of what are possible are not exceeded. And if you sleep better at night falsely believing that Apple "sabotaged" your ipad, you should go with what you believe, as preposterous as it is.

"No support, no updates" will not happen. There's a better chance of the earth being flat. You can ignore them of course and be behind the curve on functionality, vulnerabilities and fixes. Battery life will still degrade somewhat due to age.

My 7th gen ipad is standing the test of time. It works great on ipados 16, battery life and performance are consistent over time, given some degradation as I use it heavily. That A9 though, it was quite the break though in it's time, but it's showing it's age.

 

[FeliApple]

The A9 didn't really age well as evidenced by your iphone 6s is more of a brick than a phone. Sure it can do a limited number of things and get decent battery life as long as the boundaries of what are possible are not exceeded. And if you sleep better at night falsely believing that Apple "sabotaged" your ipad, you should go with what you believe, as preposterous as it is.

I like to be clear on this. Apple sabotaged, caused forced obsolescence, and obliterated my A9 on iOS 9 combo, maliciously, through their malware called iOS updates. There’s no defense possible for this specific case. I told you and showed you how the issue appeared, I’m interested in this: how would you defend it? I’m interested as you are saying that my description - which is the truth - is preposterous. Before you say a bug, Apple ignored the issue, so they are at complete fault even if it was initially unintentional. Once it appeared, their refusal to do anything (even acknowledge it!) is deliberate. Apple is bricking devices and staying quiet.

Imagine if Apple were to brick all iPhone 14s and were to stay quiet.

I did not install it, so they forced it. Like I said, very different from intentional and consensual iOS updates.

As far as the A9 and the iPhone 6s go I was actually somewhat praising Apple. While battery life is abhorrent, it got the most iOS updates ever, and it is usable, performance-wise. That wasn’t the case earlier, even if you consider the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus, both of which were RAM-starved, the Plus being the best example.

As I said earlier: I’ll always acknowledge the good things, even if my criticism is... firm, to say the least.

"No support, no updates" will not happen. There's a better chance of the earth being flat. You can ignore them of course and be behind the curve on functionality, vulnerabilities and fixes. Battery life will still degrade somewhat due to age.

All of this is true barring the final sentence: if not updated, battery health is irrelevant.

My 7th gen ipad is standing the test of time. It works great on ipados 16, battery life and performance are consistent over time, given some degradation as I use it heavily. That A9 though, it was quite the break though in it's time, but it's showing it's age.

Actually, this is a little more believable. All iPads since the 5th-gen were released with older chipsets, and they fare a lot better battery-life wise. My inclination is to explain it through sheer battery size: while iPhones with the same processors are abhorrent, iPads have far larger batteries, which may offset Apple’s poor optimisation a little.

Is it at all possible for you to upload a screenshot of the iPad’s battery life? Would be interesting to see.

For whatever’s worth, I’ve managed 13.5 hours on a 6th-gen iPad on iOS 12. That matches what I’d expect from a 9.7-inch iPad on an original iOS version, but like I said, this is the interesting part: The A10 is two major versions beyond the original. In no world (including this one), does an A10 iPhone get those great results on iOS 12. Base iPads have fared a lot better than their iPhone-chipset counterparts. That’s why I’m interested in your results.