Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize

[sw1tcher]

You're missing my point... People will get paid if they are indispensable. What better pay? Make yourself indispensable.

You mean make yourself indispensible like these great CEOs?

Adam Neumann
Carly Fiorina
Marissa Mayer
Ron Johnson

There are many examples of people like this, some of whom even got a nice parting gift (golden parachute). On the other hand, there are very few examples of exceptional CEOs.

 

[NervousFish2]

This boils down to the fact that political propaganda has pushed the idea that rich people are good and poor people are bad. Rich people have obviously done something of value to get that rich while "the poors" simply must be lazy and somehow immoral to be in the situation that they're in. This is exactly why rich people and the corporations they run never experience real consequences, while the average person is on a much shorter leash in all aspects of their life.

This is so true. We saw in 2008 just how kind our system is to the corporate fat cats. The mantra was "too big to fail." So they got bailouts, while thousands of ordinary people were kicked out of their homes.

 

[Realityck]

The whole system is stacked against workers, and switching jobs won't change that. Unionization will.

It used to be unions were specific to a set trade or skill set. Unions are not a substitution to education particularly in technology. I am not talking about factory line workers in a technology based manufacturing environments. If you at a business for the long term and the company is very stable unions can work for certain job categories, particularly where it the employer expects too much physical stamina.

If you are technology based and rotate career/skill set between employers, then a union is really not viable. I personally like the self created independent unions say with hospital staff that look out for workers from a safety standpoint, not from a years served standpoint and negotiate yearly pay scales. Lets just say you can't generalized that unionization is great in all forms, its just isn't IMHO.

 

[NervousFish2]

Grocery stores in my state are union. I used to work in them during college and a few years after. While there was high turnover, there were people who made it a career. I was part of a meat cutters union , even though I worked in deli and seafood. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but as a part time worker I was actually eligible for no cost health insurance. It was a pretty decent plan too. They still have the same no employee cost plan today.

In another store I watched the union get a co-workers job back. They fired him after he couldn't show up for work because his kid was in the hospital! Insane stuff. That store was a nightmare.

Thanks for sharing this. Union strong!

 

[Tubamajuba]

This is so true. We saw in 2008 just how kind our system is to the corporate fat cats. The mantra was "too big to fail." So they got bailouts, while thousands of ordinary people were kicked out of their homes.

Exactly! And now corporations are jacking up real estate values by buying up homes left and right so even if you did want to just "get a new job" like some people are suggesting here, you better hope that new job doesn't require you to move.

 

[Silverstring]

Let’s give a real-world example. I grew up in a county with some of the best-performing schools in the entire country, but the teachers are paid about $10,000 to $20,000 less per year than surrounding counties. Is it “entitlement” for them to want to use their collective bargaining power to try to close that pay gap between themselves and the surrounding school systems? Or should they just suck it up, get paid a lot less for the same (and in a lot of cases, more and better) work, and stop whining?

”Well, why don’t you just get a job in one of those school systems?” Hm, well, lots of reasons. Maybe they like working in the schools they’re in? Maybe they feel that the children in this county deserve a high-quality education? Maybe they don’t want to move and relocate their family? Maybe they like being part of this community overall?

But does that make them entitled for wanting their work to be compensated at a reasonable level? No. But people who share your outlook seem to be really, really good at determining what other people’s work is worth, and what other people deserve.

Now, now...let's not confuse the issue of "unions bad."

Every worker has limitless mobility, and the only thing holding them back is pure work ethic!

Why, every one of us can name a handful of people who overcame incredible obstacles and became successful—the other 300 million Americans who aren't rich? Just didn't work hard enough.

I mean, it's incredibly simple to view this issue this way if you strip out ALL of the nuance and understanding of political and economic structures and their impact on labor.

I want something short, simple, and "common sense" so I can put it on a bumper sticker. Then all those lazy bums behind me can read it and do things the "right way", since there's only one variable to worry about.

 

[pastrychef]

Negotiation is a 2 way street...and they were negotiating. The transit system didn't give them a contract.

I love how you absolve the transit system of ALL responsibility, when this could just as easily be:



Is there any scenario in which you don't view the corporation/agency/company as the one with all the power and leverage?

It seems to me the union was the one with too much power. It wasn't the transit authority that shut everything down.

 

[pastrychef]

You mean make yourself indispensible like these great CEOs?

Adam Neumann
Carly Fiorina
Marissa Mayer
Ron Johnson

There are many examples of people like this, some of whom even got a nice parting gift (golden parachute). On the other hand, there are very few examples of exceptional CEOs.

The boards thought they were indispensable... Neumann did a particularly good job of conning Masa-san.

Fiorina, Mayer, and Johnson took jobs at companies that were not exactly at their peak... Marissa Mayer oversaw the sale of Yahoo. I don't know if that can be considered a complete failure.

In the end, how any of them are still employed by their former companies? Companies should have the power to fire those who are not performing. When your employees are unionized, it's near impossible to fire them.

 

[Silverstring]

It seems to me the union was the one with too much power.

Okay, lets check the Union's power.

In your ideal scenario...who will be checking the employer's power, then?

It wasn't the transit authority that shut everything down.

So the sickout was in response...to nothing? The engineers weren't reacting to the way the transit authority was handling negotiations? They were just trying to inconvenience travelers...because reasons?

Hey Siri, define "indirect effects".

 

[troublador]

Just the opposite. The greed of American unions is why nothing is made in the USA anymore.

Did unions force Apple to move manufacturing out of America? No, it was Apple's own greed.

 

[pastrychef]

Did unions force Apple to move manufacturing out of America? No, it was Apple's own greed.

The Mac Pros are assembled in America. I wonder how much that added to it's cost...

 

[troublador]

If I owned a business and my employees tried to unionize, I would view that as an act of aggression. I would rather shut down my business than give in to unions.

If these employees were unhappy with what they were offered, why did they take the job in the first place? Right now, there's a labor shortage and everyone's hiring, they can easily leave and go find themselves jobs with higher pay and better benefits.

I hope you never own a business with employees then. This is the kind of attitude of someone immature and hyped up on hormones, who thinks he has to be totally ruthless if he's going to become the next Steve Jobs.

 

[pastrychef]

I hope you never own a business with employees then. This is the kind of attitude of someone immature and hyped up on hormones, who thinks he has to be totally ruthless if he's going to become the next Steve Jobs.

I can only hope to become as successful as Steve.

 

[troublador]

I can only hope to become as successful as Steve.

That's impossible if you'll vindictively shut down your business at the first sign of unionisation.

 

[imnotthewalrus]

Did unions force Apple to move manufacturing out of America? No, it was Apple's own greed.

The damage was done long before Apple was a successful company. I lived in Saginaw, Michigan in the early 1980s and experienced first hand the poor craftsmanship combined with insubordinate behavior of union GM employees, and by the end of the decade the factories were closing everywhere. The union workers, not all - but many - were spoiled brats. Nothing was enough for them, and inevitably they lost their jobs.

 

[JayKay514]

Unionization makes little sense for retail employees. These are high turnover entry-level positions.

Not in computer retail. This requires extensive training and product expertise. When I worked as a computer store manager most of my staff were getting or had diplomas in IT. Plus, soft skills to deal with frequently agitated customers. We had very little turnover.

 

[troublador]

The damage was done long before Apple was a successful company. I lived in Saginaw, Michigan in the early 1980s and experienced first hand the poor craftsmanship combined with insubordinate behavior of union GM employees, and by the end of the decade the factories were closing everywhere. The union workers, not all - but many - were spoiled brats. Nothing was enough for them, and inevitably they lost their jobs.

Not buying it. Apple moved production abroad because of one thing: money. That's how capitalism works. Money is king.

 

[pastrychef]

That's impossible if you'll vindictively shut down your business at the first sign of unionisation.

Well, it certainly won't happen if I allow them to unionize.

 

[troublador]

Well, it certainly won't happen if I allow them to unionize.

Unless you change your attitudes, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[imnotthewalrus]

Not buying it. Apple moved production abroad because of one thing: money. That's how capitalism works. Money is king.

Yup. Money is king in any business. I was merely trying to shed an example why nothing is made here (the US) anymore.

 

[robd003]

Get ready for your Genius repair to take 4 weeks due to union work rules...

 

[troublador]

Yup. Money is king in any business. I was merely trying to shed an example why nothing is made here (the US) anymore.

Apple doesn't make most of its products in the US anymore because it's cheaper to do it abroad. That's all the light-shedding we need.

 

[pastrychef]

Unless you change your attitudes, it ain't gonna happen.

What's wrong with my attitude? Why is that an issue in a discussion about unions?

 

[troublador]

Get ready for your Genius repair to take 4 weeks due to union work rules...

This is just the usual fear-mongering. Don't you have anything better than that?

 

[troublador]

What's wrong with my attitude? Why is that an issue in a discussion about unions?

It was you who said you'd rather shut down your business than let employees unionise. I think that's a ridiculous attitude and I'm calling you out on it. Tough luck if you don't like it.