Apple Store in Maryland Makes History by Voting to Unionize

[Silverstring]

Look at what unions did to the American auto industry.

Look at what unions did to manufacturing in America.

Right now, the longshoreman in the west coast are talking about striking to hold America hostage in light of all the supply chain issues driving up inflation and devastating low and middle class Americans.

Yes, there was a time when unions played an important role in protecting workers against abusive employers, but that was a long time ago. Nowadays, there are enough laws in place to protect workers.

Ah, gotcha—so pin everything on the unions, then?

There certainly couldn't have been many multivariate factors at play, like the leadership of the car companies assuming constant growth, or manufacturing leaving America because goods need to be cheaper when wages are depressed and don't keep up with inflation.

Yep, all these companies and their balance sheets desperately wanted to keep paying the price of American labor, but they were forced not to!

Unions or no unions, knowing the economics of globalization would tell you that labor was going to go overseas when the logistics/supply chain merited it. The idea that Unions are "greedy" goes out the window when one realizes that the overseas labor that has replaced American manufacturing was, and almost always IS...cheaper than American minimum wage! Even if one wanted to work their American manufacturing job for the same cost as overseas labor—one literally couldn't.

Keeping the wages low provided the perfect cover for companies to get the hell out of Dodge. They weren't and aren't going to pay American labor prices in perpetuity just for funsies, not with Wall Street breathing down their necks since 1916 and needing to keep their earnings reports stuffed to protect the share price.

...but, if the Unions had just asked for less, well...that would've solved everything!

The greatest trick transnational megacorps ever pull(ed) is convincing people that their hands were tied or forced in any of this.

You know what would help low and middle class Americans keep up with the inflation crushing them now? Higher wages! Plain and simple.

Either way, I appreciate you answering and providing your position!

 

[pastrychef]

How were you attacked? If they'd made specific allegations (true or otherwise) of unseemly conduct on your part toward employees, that'd certainly be an attack. However, as far as I've been able to tell from reading this thread, everything you've said so far about how you, as a business owner, would respond to your employees organizing is hypothetical because you don't actually own a business.

Given that, why get bent out of shape? What they said is no less hypothetical than anything you've said.

Unseemly conduct?? Where?? How??

Correct. I no longer own a business. When I did, I had a great relationship with my employees. I even sent them birthday gifts after they stopped working for me and we stayed close friends.

 

[Tubamajuba]

If I owned a business and my employees tried to unionize, I would view that as an act of aggression. I would rather shut down my business than give in to unions.

If these employees were unhappy with what they were offered, why did they take the job in the first place? Right now, there's a labor shortage and everyone's hiring, they can easily leave and go find themselves jobs with higher pay and better benefits.

Why did they take the job in the first place, you ask? Because they need money to live, and any other job they could take probably is equally if not even more hostile to their employees. Like I said, our economic system as a whole is bent heavily towards corporations and switching jobs won't fix anything. Corporations are already organized so that they can put their thumb on the scale in their favor, unions merely allow the rest of us to do the same.

I also have no idea why you would view unionization as aggression, unless you were planning on mistreating your employees.

 

[jonblatho]

Unseemly conduct?? Where?? How??

Are you having trouble comprehending the word “if”?

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

More Apple stores may follow this. I wouldn’t be surprised but this seems like a bad move. Since Apple can easily close down this store and move its location. Thus, not having to deal with a union.

Disagree..,If Apple stores start to close and move, that will lead to BAD P.R.!

 

[smulji]

Let’s say the store is a losing proposition (ie bleeding money) for whatever reason. Apple would be well within rights to close the store.

In that scenario you describe, I agree but it's a completely different one than closing stores in order to de-unionize as has been mentioned in this thread.

 

[Thebrochure]

Could just find another place to work that you actually enjoy working for. But no. Because entitlement.

 

[smulji]

If I owned a business and my employees tried to unionize, I would view that as an act of aggression.

You would be wrong. The right for employees to unionize in the USA is a legally granted right.

 

[pastrychef]

You would be wrong. The right for employees to unionize in the USA is a legally granted right.

So is my right to shut down.

 

[sw1tcher]

If they want CEO pay, go become a CEOs.

Why would anyone give a guy who's flipping burgers CEO pay?

1) Not everyone can become a CEO because there aren't enough CEO positions to go around
2) Employees are not asking for CEO pay
3) You're completely missing the point which is that the pay gap keeps getting wider and wider
4) Is today's CEO doing that much better than a CEO in the '70s? If their salary is an indicator, you'd think they were performing 940% better

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978: Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

The latest report in EPI’s annual series analyzing current and long-term trends in CEO compensation.

www.epi.org

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978. Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

 

[Silverstring]

Don't give unions what they want? Things like this will happen...

N.J. Transit Shuts Down Train Service, Blaming Engineer Sickout (Published 2022)

The closures came after a day of cancellations across the system that began in the morning and had worsened by the evening.

www.nytimes.com

They don't give a damn about anyone besides their union.

So Unions shouldn't get what they want...but if corporations/cities/transit agencies want their workers to not get holiday pay...on a holiday...then that's A-OK?

For me, I'm going to side with my fellow human beings. Surprising to me how many people fall over themselves to defend nameless, faceless legal constructs that they often have no stake in—literally and figuratively—over people.

But to each their own.

 

[pastrychef]

1) Not everyone can become a CEO because there aren't enough CEO positions to go around
2) Employees are not asking for CEO pay
3) You're completely missing the point which is that the pay gap keeps getting wider and wider
4) Is today's CEO doing that much better than a CEO in the '70s? If their salary is an indicator, you'd think they were performing 940% better

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978: Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

The latest report in EPI’s annual series analyzing current and long-term trends in CEO compensation.

www.epi.org

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978. Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

You're missing my point... People will get paid if they are indispensable. What better pay? Make yourself indispensable.

 

[pastrychef]

So Unions shouldn't get what they want...but if corporations/cities/transit agencies want their workers to not get holiday pay...on a holiday...then that's A-OK?

For me, I'm going to side with my fellow human beings. Surprising to me how many people fall over themselves to defend nameless, faceless legal constructs that they often have no stake in—literally and figuratively—over people.

But to each their own.

Sure. Cripple the transit system and prevent millions of people who rely on it to get home just to get your point across instead of sitting at a table and negotiating. Love how unions work.

 

[mikethemartian]

Depends on the union.
I have personal knowledge that a union forced Goodrich to keep on an employee even when he commonly showed up to work knee walking drunk. Doesn't it make you feel safer driving on Goodrich tires potentially made while the tire builder was dead dunk?
Personally, I will drive to a non-union store as long as there is one.
Most union members are lazy slugs.

Back when Mad Men was on with the Jaguar/GM story arc some of the posters on IMDb that grew up with their parents working in the auto industry would post how filthy it was and how people would have sex on the production line.

 

[DC Wallaby]

Could just find another place to work that you actually enjoy working for. But no. Because entitlement.

Let’s give a real-world example. I grew up in a county with some of the best-performing schools in the entire country, but the teachers are paid about $10,000 to $20,000 less per year than surrounding counties. Is it “entitlement” for them to want to use their collective bargaining power to try to close that pay gap between themselves and the surrounding school systems? Or should they just suck it up, get paid a lot less for the same (and in a lot of cases, more and better) work, and stop whining?

”Well, why don’t you just get a job in one of those school systems?” Hm, well, lots of reasons. Maybe they like working in the schools they’re in? Maybe they feel that the children in this county deserve a high-quality education? Maybe they don’t want to move and relocate their family? Maybe they like being part of this community overall?

But does that make them entitled for wanting their work to be compensated at a reasonable level? No. But people who share your outlook seem to be really, really good at determining what other people’s work is worth, and what other people deserve.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Could just find another, better-paying job. But no. Because entitlement.

The whole system is stacked against workers, and switching jobs won't change that. Unionization will.

Speaking of entitlement though, corporations have long felt entitled to treat their employees like crap under the guise of your little "go work somewhere else" phrase. Unionization puts an end to that.

 

[lindros2]

That is wrong. The push to move America's manufacturing base overseas was driven by Wall Street. It's the largest shareholders of public companies that were (and still are) greedy.

NIMBY.

 

[lindros2]

The whole system is stacked against workers, and switching jobs won't change that. Unionization will.

Speaking of entitlement though, corporations have long felt entitled to treat their employees like crap under the guise of your little "go work somewhere else" phrase. Unionization puts an end to that.

Oh it does?

 

[lindros2]

The whole system is stacked against workers, and switching jobs won't change that. Unionization will.

Thanks Jimmy Hoffa.
Who profits from union dues? Employees?

IBEW revenue is $290.0M annually. Do IBEW employees "benefit" from this? How?

 

[Tubamajuba]

Oh it does?

I mean, certainly most businesses will still do anything they can to neglect their employee's needs, but unions make that far more difficult.

 

[Tubamajuba]

Thanks Jimmy Hoffa.
Who profits from union dues? Employees?

IBEW revenue is $290.0M annually. Do IBEW employees "benefit" from this? How?

Of course they benefit from that. How can unions go up against big businesses if they don't have the money to do so?

 

[Silverstring]

1) Not everyone can become a CEO because there aren't enough CEO positions to go around
2) Employees are not asking for CEO pay
3) You're completely missing the point which is that the pay gap keeps getting wider and wider
4) Is today's CEO doing that much better than a CEO in the '70s? If their salary is an indicator, you'd think they were performing 940% better

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978: Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

The latest report in EPI’s annual series analyzing current and long-term trends in CEO compensation.

www.epi.org

CEO compensation has grown 940% since 1978. Typical worker compensation has risen only 12% during that time

Counterpoint: The CEO's "deserve" that pay. 🙄

Unions that want more money? Greedy!

CEOs that created the structures to depress wages within the rank-and-file of their companies to divert more profit and options to themselves? Somehow...not greedy!

Be on top...or be a worthless bug under a shoe.

Does anyone know why CEO's—across the entire economy—were complete and utter useless morons pre-1970?

• Not "indispensable" enough?
• Not preternaturally gifted enough to have the necessary genius that is required to run a company?
• I really just want to know what happened post-1970 to now that made CEOs 940% better than they all used to be!

 

[Silverstring]

Sure. Cripple the transit system and prevent millions of people who rely on it to get home just to get your point across instead of sitting at a table and negotiating. Love how unions work.

Negotiation is a 2 way street...and they were negotiating. The transit system didn't give them a contract.

I love how you absolve the transit system of ALL responsibility, when this could just as easily be:

Sure. Cripple the transit system and prevent millions of people who rely on it to get home just to get your point across instead of sitting at a table and negotiating. Love how transit agency contracts work.

Is there any scenario in which you don't view the corporation/agency/company as the one with all the power and leverage?

 

[Tubamajuba]

Counterpoint: The CEO's "deserve" that pay. 🙄

Unions that want more money? Greedy!

CEOs that created the structures to depress wages within the rank-and-file of their companies to divert more profit and options to themselves? Somehow...not greedy!

Be on top...or be a worthless bug under a shoe.

Does anyone know why CEO's—across the entire economy—were complete and utter useless morons pre-1970?

• Not "indispensable" enough?
• Not preternaturally gifted enough to have the necessary genius that is required to run a company?
• I really just want to know what happened post-1970 to now that made CEOs 940% better than they all used to be!

This boils down to the fact that political propaganda has pushed the idea that rich people are good and poor people are bad. Rich people have obviously done something of value to get that rich while "the poors" simply must be lazy and somehow immoral to be in the situation that they're in. This is exactly why rich people and the corporations they run never experience real consequences, while the average person is on a much shorter leash in all aspects of their life.

 

[NervousFish2]

More Apple stores may follow this. I wouldn’t be surprised but this seems like a bad move. Since Apple can easily close down this store and move its location. Thus, not having to deal with a union.

That would be a terrible look. Already look at the bad press Amazon got over their treatment of Chris Smalls.

Besides, its not like they can't afford to pay their workers better, and treat them better. They make a ton of money out of that store.