Apple Sued by U.S. Department of Justice, Says Lawsuit is 'Wrong'

[Beautyspin]

Did you actually use Chat GPT for your response?

Nope. I paraphrased from a couple of news articles

 

[truthsteve]

I don't NEED to answer them

because I don't think you can. you would have answered them already to make me be quiet, but you didn't. anyways moving on.

 

[Beautyspin]

Apple, just like anyone else that uses Unicode, has to implement any new emojis that come out of the Consortium. And I would expect Apple to put these in their release notes, seeing how that is the point of said notes.

Like I said, check the release notes from any other OS and see if they even mention Emojis. I encourage you to try it.

 

[Ludatyk]

Again and again, I trust the market to work this out. You don't. But then you're placing your trust in something other than the market. And I think you'd have a hard time showing that over time, anything other than the market is providing better solutions for consumers.

If it was left up to the market, we would run afoul... that's the purpose of Apple being investigated. You don't see that?

Apple is a business; we are all in an agreement with that. But you are aware that they are one of the most powerful corporations on this planet (with unimaginable influence) ... that can be a dangerous thing if not allowed to be checked.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

It isn't.

They are not a monopoly.

In your opinion 🙄

 

[Beautyspin]

So then buy those other phones. This is classic market economics. That you think there's a better way than letting the market decide doesn't make it so.

I buy my phones for other reasons. Being closed is not one, availability of emojis is not one either. I got my iPhone and AW as a gift. I am waiting for Apple to make changes so that it becomes useful like an Android.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

While I like the AW, I know a lot of iPhone users that use Garmin without issue, this case is very weak; the DOJ is going to get killed in court.

Sure they are 🙄

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

Not a defense of the DOJ by any means but the DOJ has no business providing better healthcare, feeding homeless, and better education.

It's crazy, it's like these people just say things to say something, especially when they literally have no clue what they're talking about.

 

[Beautyspin]

You're cherry picking one idea and assuming that it will play out exactly as you hope it does. I don't share that view.

Do I think business will make the best and perfect choice in every instance? No. Of course not. But I don't think there's a better alternative to the process than to let the market work it out.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that the consumer is better off if the government is in the mix, telling companies how to act on every minor issue. I think that's a silly idea.

I'm saying that over time, the market is much better at working this out than is the DOJ.

I am not cherry picking it. The DOJ has stated that as a problem with Apple. It is a documented issue with Apple. You will hear more about it going forward.

"Apple wraps itself in a cloak of privacy, security, and consumer preferences to justify its anticompetitive conduct. Indeed, it spends billions on marketing and branding to promote the self-serving premise that only Apple can safeguard consumers’ privacy and security interests. Apple selectively compromises privacy and security interests when doing so is in Apple’s own financial interest—such as degrading the security of text messages, offering governments and certain companies the chance to access more private and secure versions of app stores, or accepting billions of dollars each year for choosing Google as its default search engine when more private options are available. In the end, Apple deploys privacy and security justifications as an elastic shield that can stretch or contract to serve Apple’s financial and business interests."

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

Because they are grasping

Or they aren't, regardless of your fanatical obsession with defending Apple 🙄

 

[pugxiwawa]

Which is exactly what I stated. You're asking the Government to mandate a standard that Apple has to invent and improve, and then give that standard to its competition.

First, if Government wants to do that, then pass a law about standards in messaging apps that applies to everyone, not just to Apple. You do this through the legislative process, not through the courts. There is no law that says that Apple has to do what you're saying. The DOJ is going to lose badly on this point.



First of all, I don't think it's as simple as you're suggesting it is. I think it's much more technical, and asking Apple to pretend that somethign as complex as encyrption can simply be given to third-part apps to implement in ways that may be less than secure isn't the solution that you're pretending it is.

But most importantly, again and again, I trust the markets to sort this out much more than I trust the courts to sort this out. That you have faith in the govenrment to safeguard your privacy and security is a preference you have (unfounded, I'd suggest, especially since the government hates that you have privacy), it's not a fact. Simply saying "government will make this all perfect" doesn't mean that is what will happen.




I use WhatsApp more than I use iMessage. But you're assuming that the way you think this all plays out will be the way that it all plays out. I don't share your assumptions.


I believe my position is better for consumers, better for choice, and better for innovation. That you think your preference of government-mandates is better doesn't make it a fact.

you seem to be missing entire point and just keep defending Apple. Government is not mandating Apple to come up with standard. Government is asking Apple to provide same SMS access that it gets to use to 3rd party app. Don't you agree having only Apple being able to access private SMS is not fair to other competitors? They are not playing in the same level playing field.

I don't care if you use WhatsApp more than iMessage, nor does the government. That again you are missing the point. Why couldn't WhatsApp or FB Messenger or Snapchat or Line be one central messaging app for consumer? The reason they are not the central app because we all still have go to back to iMessage for SMS because Apple doesn't open it up. That is unfair. Consumer should have a choice what apps to access messages with.

Apple is cooked. Discovery phase reading those exec emails will be glorious. And if you don't think Apple and TC will settle to prevent that from happening you are dreaming.

 

[pugxiwawa]

Apple is not much different than any other business. It is the goal of any and all for profit businesses to make as much money as possible. When defending Apple I am defending the right of businesses to make decisions about how they serve their clients. As a Canadian citizen I don't want the DoJ setting rules on how Apple needs to operate (given that changes in the US are likely to be replicated worldwide). Like hundreds of millions of Apple users I love the Apple ecosystem, it is why I have willfully chosen to purchase many Apple products. The Apple ecosystem is the reason I am willing to pay a premium for these products.

Apple chose to develop Apple Music for other platforms. They did so since it gave them access to a much wider market. That was THEIR choice and always should be. Our governments are not capable of setting meaningful tech regulation.

Whether they have revenues of one dollar or a trillion dollars all companies have to make decisions as to where they put their resources. How they make those decisions impacts how customer use and love their products. If the significant majority of all Apple customers love the lock in, why shouldn't we be allowed that choice. As much as it sucks to have a duopoly of Android or iOS I don't believe that there is room in the space for many players. The cost of building these platforms is in the tens of billions if not hundreds of billions of dollars. No startup has a chance of making that happen.

What is the BS is that catering to the minority of users is going to bring meaningful change. I do believe that the result of all of this will be that Apple will allow a bit more flexibility to in setting default apps (I can use What's App as my default SMS client). I don't support in having the money I give to Apple being spent in delivering features for 1% of users.

I think you misunderstood. In what way would this prevent you from continuing being locked in? You like to buy same iPhone every year. That's great, Apple would gladly sell you one every year with incremental updates and enjoy being inside the wall garden. How would any of these change for you? Unless you believe that by opening up access to some APIs, all the sudden Apple will lose the ability to provide good products and eco-systems that you all love. That's non-sense. Apple will be forced to really innovate and make the products and services even better and cheaper in order to retain people inside the wall garden. Competition is a good thing, otherwise iPhone 25 will still be the same.

 

[Realityck]

If it was left up to the market, we would run afoul... that's the purpose of Apple being investigated. You don't see that?

Apple is a business; we are all in an agreement with that. But you are aware that they are one of the most powerful corporations on this planet (with unimaginable influence) ... that can be a dangerous thing if not allowed to be checked.

A corporation you can easily walk away from is not a powerful entity is it? What is it about Apple outside some interpretation that iPhones are the best pacifier out there? All they done is set up various ways to make money like most companies and they are popular, but have they been directing people on how to act and think? I see Social Media companies as far more dangerous as they over inflate their value to society, with a lack of protections for the user community, plus they literally sell their user 's statistics so to pay for everything. The example of iMessaging being not universal across platforms is some form of social media dependency isn't it? Why would an individual need to have his/her statistics and comments be even more all over the place texting through multiple platform cloud systems? These same Social Media companies are the ones that created their own bubble in the stock market waiting to pop, is Apple as risky to stockholders?

 

[rgwebb]

Some of what the DOJ is saying about security, to me, reads as something I've suspected has been brewing within the surveillance and law enforcement facets of the federal government: resentment that Apple is making it harder to do their job while respecting people's rights to privacy. They resent that Apple has repeatedly tightened up the ability for Apple to easily serve those who seek to surveil on their customers.

 

[ender78]

Unless you believe that by opening up access to some APIs, all the sudden Apple will lose the ability to provide good products and eco-systems that you all love. That's non-sense. Apple will be forced to really innovate and make the products and services even better and cheaper in order to retain people inside the wall garden. Competition is a good thing, otherwise iPhone 25 will still be the same.

I will argue that Apple is innovating to the level that satisfies the majority of its clients. Governments should not legislate Apple to do things that 95 or 99% of its customer could not care about.

I have an iPhone 12 Pro Max (likely getting the 16 Pro Max) the Apple Watch Ultra(1), Apple TV, iPad Pro(m1) and an M2 Mac mini. I decide whether I want to upgrade products every year. The assertions that the product can and should go through a transformation every year is laughable.

Even with all of its resources and money Apple struggles to hire enough people to keep their products secure. Forcing them to "waste" any time on features that will benefit only a very small percentage of users. I am saying that being forced to cater to those users that may not even be customers sets a really bad precedent. Creating an Apple Music client is very different than enabling iCloud sync and or iMessage on Windows with the OS intergration that may be required. Apples duty is only to its employees, customers and shareholders.

Many people here want to punish Apple. What they don't realize is that a decision here sets precedent. Laws are meant to apply to all parties fairly. People simply want to punish Apple for their success. I am of the opinion that Apple has been a way better curator of my security than Meta and Google. Forcing Apple to work outside their area of expertise is certain to open up new vulnerabilities. As an Apple customer, I get little or no value of extending iMessage to Android users. That said the majority of my friends have iPhones. Those that don't, I can contact on What's App or FB Messenger. Apple can/should extend the iMessage experience to Android users to make it better for their customers. But that should be a choice, not something legislated by the DoJ. If enough iPhone customers complained about this it would be there already.

I have Milwaukee tools, does that mean that once if there is a ruling against Apple on all counts, I can expect to see battery compatibility across all cordless tools. Why should Apple have to make its products work on Android if Milwaukee and Dewalt are able to create "walled gardens" that are mated to a battery. Amazing how much lock in happens naturally because it's just easier not to carry 4 different batteries and chargers. Is the EU going to force all tools to be charged by USB C and if so why not? Fair is fair.

 

[jgdeschamps]

Yea, you could go on but guess what? The DOJ isn't going after them 🙄🙄🙄

Exactly. It's selecting the one with the bigger wallet... and it sets a precedent for the rest.

 

[spazzcat]

Like I said, check the release notes from any other OS and see if they even mention Emojis. I encourage you to try it.

I'm trying to figure out what you are getting at, maybe Apple gives too much info? But for you reference:
Bug Fixes

• Update emoji resources to support emoji 15.0 (Ib4eb3)
• When picking an emoji from the popup window, update all identical emojis to the newly picked emoji (except the recent emoji row). Also announce the emoji when clicking. (I892c6)
• Wait for emojicompat to load before showing the EmojiPickerView. (I29e03)
  
  

  Emoji2 | Jetpack | Android Developers

  developer.android.com

Emoji Version List

Emoji 15.0 is the set of emojis recommended for release on September 13, 2022 alongside Unicode 15.0. Emoji 15.0 contained 31 new emojis, including...

emojipedia.org

 

[AlastorKatriona]

“Singlehandedly responsible”?

So developers of apps have no responsibility in the growth of their apps?

👉🏻 That‘s a hilarious take.

They don‘t have to allow third-party apps on their operating system. Yet they did and do. And they‘re making money from it and restricting competition. So what‘s your point?

Of course someone can tell you:

• Retail payment infrastructure and systems are essential for the functioning of the retail economy and in people‘s everyday lives
• NFC payments with mobile devices (smartphones or watches) are/will overtake and replace payments with physical cards.
• Apple provide a part of that infrastructure with their NFC payment service and they’re making money from it
• Apple‘s devices aren’t dedicated payment devices. Their NFC payment functionality is only a minor consideration (it at all) when being bought by consumers. Payment services are a separate relevant market from smartphones.
• Apple are restricting payment provider‘s access to consumers that use iPhones/smartphones and are expecting them to be able to also used as payment devices.

Apple have leveraged their iPhone market power to muscle themselves in as an intermediary between payment providers and a large part of the population that makes retail payment transactions (everyone, basically).

Horrible interpretation all around.

 

[Ludatyk]

A corporation you can easily walk away from is not a powerful entity is it? What is it about Apple outside some interpretation that iPhones are the best pacifier out there?

Oh, certainly... Apple is not forcing us to use their products. There are other alternatives... but they do a have a large impact on mobile business, whether indirect or not.

I see Social Media companies as far more dangerous as they over inflate their value to society, with a lack of protections for the user community, plus they literally sell their user 's statistics so to pay for everything.

And if I'm not mistaken..., have they been scrutinized as well? Been placed in courts?

The example of iMessaging being not universal across platforms is some form of social media dependency isn't it? Why would an individual need to have his/her statistics and comments be even more all over the place texting through multiple platform cloud systems?

Well, I'm not advocating for iMessage cross-platform... I understand it's a feature tied to Apple devices. Similar to how there are certain Google features tied to Pixel devices... my argument is concerning RCS and how Apple refused to adopt it.

And to answer your question... it's about the luxury of picking up your conversation from one platform to another, it's the convenience factor.

 

[laptech]

Can someone remind me again what exactly Nintendo and Valve are providing in exchange for billing game developers 30% of app sales?

Just because they do it does not make it right either so pointing them out is pointless.

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

When can I sue John Deere for having a monopoly on John Deere cupholders for their mowers?

When can I get Spiderman for PlayStation on my Xbox?

It’s an incredibly stupid and pedantic argument. You buy an iDevice knowing you’re not installing Android app versions.

You mean like this?

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/deere-must-face-us-farmers-right-to-repair-lawsuits-judge-rules-2023-11-27/

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

We are. I was happy with 30%. I am ecstatic with 15%. I would like to be in the 30% bracket! In the bad old days of software we were lucky to take home 15%.

I get that the large corps want to scratch the last penny - But Epic just want to have free access to all Apple's hard won clinets and goodwill and pay them nothing. "I want everything for free. Stamps feet"

And what have Epic announced... 12%... Whoop-di-flipping do.

Except, they paid the Developer fee, please stop saying they want it free

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

eh?

Sense make you not. Like Yoda you speak.

Makes perfect sense.... perhaps it's you who doesn't understand?

 

[ToyoCorollaGR]

There are many third party attachments that fit the kitchenaid mixer. And there is no 30% fee.

Isn't it crazy how these people come up with these analogies that ALWAYS fail?

 

[Beautyspin]

I'm trying to figure out what you are getting at, maybe Apple gives too much info? But for you reference:
Bug Fixes

• Update emoji resources to support emoji 15.0 (Ib4eb3)
• When picking an emoji from the popup window, update all identical emojis to the newly picked emoji (except the recent emoji row). Also announce the emoji when clicking. (I892c6)
• Wait for emojicompat to load before showing the EmojiPickerView. (I29e03)
  
  

  Emoji2 | Jetpack | Android Developers

  developer.android.com

Emoji Version List

Emoji 15.0 is the set of emojis recommended for release on September 13, 2022 alongside Unicode 15.0. Emoji 15.0 contained 31 new emojis, including...

emojipedia.org

I am trying to say this. For iOS 17.4, the feature list is headed by emojis. That is the importance it gives to emojis. Out of a dozen features, 2 are emojis. Check any OS feature list and see if they list emojis at the top? Are emojis the pinnacle of their feature updates?