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Apple Sued Over Automatic iOS 7 Downloads to iOS 6-Powered Devices

Ravager, you make an excellent point. I'm sorry for the difficulty iOS 7 poses to the blind community. Please contact Apple for an accommodation. Devices must still be in the chain running iOS 6. An even trade may be a reasonable accommodation.

A week ago I posted about the issues with vertigo and motion sickness some were experiencing. I was flamed by poster offering "common sense" advice that flew in the face of medical information.

The same poster later flamed me for my concern as I do not suffer from a vestibular disorder. I am aware of the fact that their are other people. That was a problem for this individual.

Please contact Apple for an accommodation. Ignore the flamers. They are not worth your time.
 
I hope Apple changes this practice. I don't like how new iOS versions are rammed down our throat. Even if you choose not to upgrade to iOS 7 initially, its really an eventuality because if you ever have to do a firmware restore or even "Reset" from general settings the newest version of iOS is required.

Hope they change this to at least accommodate a couple versions back. I think they are more motivated by thwarting Jailbreakers than they are at making happy customers.
 
I bought a new iPhone 4S 8GB and downgraded it 1 day before downgrading was no longer possible. The device had 5 GB of free memory. The next few days I was asked if I wanted to install iOS 7. I selected "no". I looked at the memory: 2 GB remaining. I returned the iPhone and got a refund.
 
JohnDoe98 said:
This is not a solution. The item was sold with either iOS 5 or iOS 6 on it, and it is entirely up to the consumer to choose whether or not to upgrade to iOS 7.
Click to expand...

Yes. Up to the consumer to have some space used by the installer or install. His choice. No where in purchasing the device did apple promise to never use more than a certain percentage of the storage for the ios or it's installation components.

Further apple says this on its support site:

The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity.

(Emphasis added). The other factors language is broad enough to include the claimant's issue and bar any lawsuit.

Also The device is still usable. End of story.
 
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JohnDoe98 said:
The only thing in the EULA for iOS 6 that is relevant to the issue here is what I posted earlier in the thread. Apple says that it "may make future iOS updates available". What exactly that means though is rather ambiguous. A user agreeing to the EULA need not interpret that as meaning the device will auto-download something in the background, even though that is presumably what Apple means.

Of course in a court the issue will be how would that clause reasonably be interpreted, and my bet is for the majority of people, especially those that are non-tech savy who just want to buy a phone, they will not realize this means background downloads. But for a EULA to be enforceable it must meet the consciousnability clause.
Click to expand...

But here's the thing though, courts don't accept ignorance nor will they just look at Apple has the "Giant" and one "innocent" individual citizen suing them. Courts hate frivolous lawsuits, and I'm not saying this one necessarily is but at the same time they expect people to not only do their homework in terms of reading the license agreements on products they buy but they expect the customer to try and resolve it first. The article doesn't really go deep into detail if the guy went to Apple to get this resolved.

Now while I don't think this is right that large software downloads are auto downloaded with no control of the user to prevent it, there's no guarantee this guy is going to win the case.
 
People who suggest to "simply update to iOS7" should not forget that the iPhone 4 is having a hard time delivering a fluid performance. I've seen iOS 7 on iPhone 4S and 5 and it's very different there.
 
rjlawrencejr said:
As I said earlier in this thread, I must be the exception, because I feel my phone runs better on iOS 7 on my 4 than iOS 6 did. I do consider myself to be a power user too.
Click to expand...

"Everything is slower in iOS 7"
"Lag can become a significant percentage of the time you spend"
"Battery life in iOS 7 is down"
"The iPhone 4 and iOS 7 just can't quite provide an experience that's up to Apple's usual standard"

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/09/new-lease-on-life-or-death-sentence-ios-7-on-the-iphone-4/
 
HenryDJP said:
But here's the thing though, courts don't accept ignorance nor will they just look at Apple has the "Giant" and one "innocent" individual citizen suing them. Courts hate frivolous lawsuits, and I'm not saying this one necessarily is but at the same time they expect people to not only do their homework in terms of reading the license agreements on products they buy but they expect the customer to try and resolve it first. The article doesn't really go deep into detail if the guy went to Apple to get this resolved.

Now while I don't think this is right that large software downloads are auto downloaded with no control of the user to prevent it, there's no guarantee this guy is going to win the case.
Click to expand...

He's suing over the space loss not the automatic download itself. But he can't win.

"The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity."

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2419

Okay. I've now won this thread. No more posts please.
 
I suspect that Apple will be forced to release a downgrade tool to allow people who have an iPhone 5 or earlier to either downgrade or delete the installer of iOS 7 to reclaim the space.

They might also either have to release an update to iOS 6 that disables over the air updates or give a way for anyone to install a profile that disables that feature.

When you consider the issues the blind community is having with iOS 7, Apple may have to either release the downgrade tool or fix voice over in iOS 7 very soon. If not, they may face an additional lawsuit from the American Foundation for the Blind.

I am simply going to ignore rabid fanboys who cannot see why a forced update is a problem for people with disabilities and large corporations with in-house applications that have not been updated to work with iOS 7. I may also be putting some of the more rude posters on ignore lists.

I would encourage every sensible member in joining me in ignoring them as they crave attention.

If Tim Cook is listening, you should get everyone back to work and make fixing the accessibility issues your top priority or provide a way for people with devices older than the iPhone 5C and 5S to downgrade to iOS 6 and block automatic updates to iOS 7. I also suspect that some enterprise customers and also quite upset.
 
caesarp said:
Yes. Up to the consumer to have some space used by the installer or install. His choice. No where in purchasing the device did apple promise to never use more than a certain percentage of the storage for the ios or it's installation components.

Further apple says this on its support site:

The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity.

(Emphasis added). The other factors language is broad enough to include the claimant's issue and bar any lawsuit.

Also The device is still usable. End of story.
Click to expand...

Well we've both made our points, but I'll just make one more remark, in your emphasized section, notice the crucial term "pre-installed".
 
aristotle said:
I suspect that Apple will be forced to release a downgrade tool to allow people who have an iPhone 5 or earlier to either downgrade or delete the installer of iOS 7 to reclaim the space.

They might also either have to release an update to iOS 6 that disables over the air updates or give a way for anyone to install a profile that disables that feature.

When you consider the issues the blind community is having with iOS 7, Apple may have to either release the downgrade tool or fix voice over in iOS 7 very soon. If not, they may face an additional lawsuit from the American Foundation for the Blind.

I am simply going to ignore rabid fanboys who cannot see why a forced update is a problem for people with disabilities and large corporations with in-house applications that have not been updated to work with iOS 7. I may also be putting some of the more rude posters on ignore lists.

I would encourage every sensible member in joining me in ignoring them as they crave attention.
Click to expand...

The articles on this say the update starts but does not install without user authentication. It can not complete the update by itself. The alleged problem is only the 3gb of unpacking space that sits there as used until the install IS completed. It is not a 100% automatic process through complete ios install.
 
HenryDJP said:
But here's the thing though, courts don't accept ignorance nor will they just look at Apple has the "Giant" and one "innocent" individual citizen suing them. Courts hate frivolous lawsuits, and I'm not saying this one necessarily is but at the same time they expect people to not only do their homework in terms of reading the license agreements on products they buy but they expect the customer to try and resolve it first. The article doesn't really go deep into detail if the guy went to Apple to get this resolved.

Now while I don't think this is right that large software downloads are auto downloaded with no control of the user to prevent it, there's no guarantee this guy is going to win the case.
Click to expand...

I completely agree, and your point is well made. All I have been trying to suggest is that this isn't an open and shut case.
 
JohnDoe98 said:
Well we've both made our points, but I'll just make one more remark, in your emphasized section, notice the crucial term "pre-installed".
Click to expand...

Or the crucial "or other" part.

----------
JohnDoe98 said:
I completely agree, and your point is well made. All I have been trying to suggest is that this isn't an open and shut case.
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Also the entire update is not auto downloaded and installed. It just holds onto some storage space until the install is completed via user intervention.

People are thinking the whole ios 7 is downloaded and installed. It is not. Read again.
 
people are never happy.


you have an original iphone....you complain you don't have iOs 7

you have a newer model....you want to the original iOs


get over it! CHANGE and stay up to date!
 
carl0sian said:
people are never happy.


you have an original iphone....you complain you don't have iOs 7

you have a newer model....you want to the original iOs


get over it! CHANGE and stay up to date!
Click to expand...

Your example, never happened. Try again.
 
caesarp said:
The articles on this say the update starts but does not install without user authentication. It can not complete the update by itself. The alleged problem is only the 3gb of unpacking space that sits there as used until the install IS completed. It is not a 100% automatic process through complete ios install.
Click to expand...


No, not 100 percent automatic, an yes, does require some user intaraction to install, but... Again, be a completely blind user, one that actually advocates for the use of I-devices to the blind world, because you're the tech sort. I read the release notes once IOS7 i finally out. Again, use the devices no sight... Look under the section for accessibility, and read the updates. "HEy, wow, this should be amazing, for us, and become the iggest tools in our arsenal." Finally upgrade, and find out that what they advertised, is not only a load of fluff, but everything you were used to being correct, is so broken, you can barely use your device to do simple things, like calls, check mail, or text. Yup, not 100 percent automatic, but when Apple fluffs it up to be the next great thing in the IOS world, and it flops and breaks a ton of things, you see why one could get upset? And I'm speaking from experience, as well as as what others in my case complain about. I'm sure this community isn't the only group that has it's complaints either.

Also, thank you others for understanding. I think it's time to send an email to the accessibility people at Apple to see what their view is on this.
 
Ravager said:
No, not 100 percent automatic, an yes, does require some user intaraction to install, but... Again, be a completely blind user, one that actually advocates for the use of I-devices to the blind world, because you're the tech sort. I read the release notes once IOS7 i finally out. Again, use the devices no sight... Look under the section for accessibility, and read the updates. "HEy, wow, this should be amazing, for us, and become the iggest tools in our arsenal." Finally upgrade, and find out that what they advertised, is not only a load of fluff, but everything you were used to being correct, is so broken, you can barely use your device to do simple things, like calls, check mail, or text. Yup, not 100 percent automatic, but when Apple fluffs it up to be the next great thing in the IOS world, and it flops and breaks a ton of things, you see why one could get upset? And I'm speaking from experience, as well as as what others in my case complain about. I'm sure this community isn't the only group that has it's complaints either.

Also, thank you others for understanding. I think it's time to send an email to the accessibility people at Apple to see what their view is on this.
Click to expand...

I sympathize but that is a separate off topic issue from the lawsuit that this thread is about.
 
carl0sian said:
people are never happy.


you have an original iphone....you complain you don't have iOs 7

you have a newer model....you want to the original iOs


get over it! CHANGE and stay up to date!
Click to expand...

why not just hit the kill switch on all iGadgets after 4 years of use.
stay up to date, consume, embrace the new models and get over it... yadayada.

I have a model that works just fine for what its worth and I do not want that to change. The tradeoff (performance vs features) is not worth the upgrade, because: I have a model that works just fine for what its worth. I would like to keep it that way and not be punished with a hefty decrease in storage because Apple doesn't agree with me using the product they sold me - they rather want to sell me another one soon™ - forcing users to adopt an OS that is not optimized for their older hardware specs helps with that.

I called Apple over this matter and the helpdesk claims that Apple really wants its users to upgrade and thus will not do anything about it. This royal **** up is not some mistake or oversight, it is intentional.

I am thankful that this fella is taking it to court and I can only urge everyone to call Apple support and make sure a complaint is recorded. A rant on these forums alone is not going to help.
 
I downloaded iOS 7.0 onto my 4S just because. Having been with Apple products for nearly 3 decades I should've known better. iOS 7.0 just about bricked my 4S so I simply decommissioned it and bought the 5S.

Oh well, I guess this gets me off the hook for trying to find an excuse to buy the new iPhone because had I stayed with the previous software, I would not be talking about my new purchase here on the forum.

By the way, don't even think about buying anything less than the 32-gig because storage real estate doesn't seem to go near as far as it did on the 4S.
 
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Digital Dude said:
By the way, don't even think about buying anything less than the 32-gig because storage real estate doesn't seem to go near as far as it did on the 4S.
Click to expand...

16 GB Phone: 9.6 GB Available - 3.8 GB Used.
16 - 13.4 = 2.6 GB inaccessible.

Maybe 1 GB difference from what I remember but (human) memory is pretty unreliable. I probably wouldn't recommend limiting yourself to only 8 GB, but I would say that even if the OS was only 100 MB. On a 16 GB device 1 GB wouldn't make much of a difference (i.e. if you're struggling with low space after installing iOS 7, you would have been already).
 
caesarp said:
Yes. Up to the consumer to have some space used by the installer or install. His choice. No where in purchasing the device did apple promise to never use more than a certain percentage of the storage for the ios or it's installation components.

Further apple says this on its support site:

The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity.

(Emphasis added). The other factors language is broad enough to include the claimant's issue and bar any lawsuit.

Also The device is still usable. End of story.
Click to expand...

Either English is not your first language or your understanding of common law is shaky at best. 'Other factors' relates quite clearly to the software that shipped (pre-installed!) with the phone and not any subsquent addition.

The point of this thread is that this OTA obviates any choice. Your first paragraph is utter nonsense.
 
weckart said:
Either English is not your first language or your understanding of common law is shaky at best. 'Other factors' relates quite clearly to the software that shipped (pre-installed!) with the phone and not any subsquent addition.

The point of this thread is that this OTA obviates any choice. Your first paragraph is utter nonsense.
Click to expand...

Actually I'd say your interpretation of contract law is pretty shaky...
 
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