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Apple Sued Over Automatic iOS 7 Downloads to iOS 6-Powered Devices

I'm totally confused. If you have less than 3GB available, it doesn't delete anything, it just doesn't download. If you have the space available, it downloads it. Someone please tell me how often the use case that for a year or more you've had 3 GB available on your 8 GB device and now suddenly minutes after the phone downloads iOS 7, you suddenly want to use the last 3GB?

People, if you're an Apple user you understand that we don't look back, we look forward. Parking yourself at a point because you don't want to move forward is your choice. But I gotta tell you, I have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4S both running iOS 7. NO problems. So please stop whining and making assumptions of what will happen if you upgrade based on other people whining about performance issues that were based on developer previews and not the official release. In three days you'll be using iOS 7 like you've been using it for three years. Get over yourself and your OCD and move forward.
 
dBeats said:
I'm totally confused. If you have less than 3GB available, it doesn't delete anything, it just doesn't download. If you have the space available, it downloads it. Someone please tell me how often the use case that for a year or more you've had 3 GB available on your 8 GB device and now suddenly minutes after the phone downloads iOS 7, you suddenly want to use the last 3GB?

People, if you're an Apple user you understand that we don't look back, we look forward. Parking yourself at a point because you don't want to move forward is your choice. But I gotta tell you, I have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4S both running iOS 7. NO problems. So please stop whining and making assumptions of what will happen if you upgrade based on other people whining about performance issues that were based on developer previews and not the official release. In three days you'll be using iOS 7 like you've been using it for three years. Get over yourself and your OCD and move forward.
Click to expand...
Some of us have good reasons to stay on 6.1.3.

I upgraded my 4S and Mini on day one and then realized one app that I use every day, had a problem with in app notifications. There was no way to close the notifications without restarting the app. Get 20 in app notifications per hour while using the app and it is a pain.

I downgraded both back to 6.1.3 until the app is updated. There is no OCD about it.
 
JackieInCo said:
Some of us have good reasons to stay on 6.1.3.

I upgraded my 4S and Mini on day one and then realized one app that I use every day, had a problem with in app notifications. There was no way to close the notifications without restarting the app. Get 20 in app notifications per hour while using the app and it is a pain.

I downgraded both back to 6.1.3 until the app is updated. There is no OCD about it.
Click to expand...

Or you could just take that app out of notification center until it's updated....
 
JoeG4 said:
It *should* be illegal, but in theory Apple is selling you the hardware but licensing to you the software necessary to use the hardware.

The problem with that is that in order to use your iPhone, you must agree to the EULA for the software. If you disagree with the EULA, your phone is a brick.

In theory that means that they could make an EULA where your license to the current version of iOS expires when the next version comes out. Therefore, your phone could become inoperable unless you update.

What would be kinda sketchy is if they changed the EULA terms to become more restrictive on newer builds of iOS but you were forced to update.
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Again, not in my country (Australia) as federal consumer laws disallowing this supersede any EULA a company could make. In the US I would imagine it varies state by state.
 
caesarp said:
He's suing over the space loss not the automatic download itself. But he can't win.

"The storage media in your Apple product, like all storage devices, uses some of its capacity for formatting, so actual capacity available for applications and files will be less. In addition, other factors, such as pre-installed systems or other software and media, will also use part of the available storage capacity."

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2419

Okay. I've now won this thread. No more posts please.
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Stop posting this over and over and clogging this thread. You're not factoring in consent and if the product matches an identical sample at the time of sale. No, OEMs can't just wipe out a significant portion of your storage permanently whenever they please.

Also, even if it was written in Apple's user agreement (which it's not), it still wouldn't necessarily be valid because a contract can't nullify the overbearing consumer protection laws.

Please, at least do a BUSLAW 101 class somewhere to get the basics of your own legal system before posting crap like this.
 
weckart said:
You might say whatever you like but it is part of my job, so...
Click to expand...

Really? It's part of my job too and "such as" gives examples - it's not limiting. A basic understanding of contract law and oh, you know, the plain & ordinary meaning of words, would tell you that.

Although, is this even in the iOS software agreement or just a support article? If it's a support article, then why are we even discussing this, since a support article clearly isn't any sort of agreement.

//edit: Okay, yeah, this language is just in the support article. So, the person that keeps posting this needs to shut the front door.
 
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fenlyn said:
What prevents this dude from just restoring the phone from backup? The backup doesn't contain this pre-download.
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Because when you restore from a backup you also get updated to IOS7 which is a total bummer for people with iphone 4 which pretty much turns it into a useless brick!

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dBeats said:
I'm totally confused. If you have less than 3GB available, it doesn't delete anything, it just doesn't download. If you have the space available, it downloads it. Someone please tell me how often the use case that for a year or more you've had 3 GB available on your 8 GB device and now suddenly minutes after the phone downloads iOS 7, you suddenly want to use the last 3GB?

People, if you're an Apple user you understand that we don't look back, we look forward. Parking yourself at a point because you don't want to move forward is your choice. But I gotta tell you, I have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4S both running iOS 7. NO problems. So please stop whining and making assumptions of what will happen if you upgrade based on other people whining about performance issues that were based on developer previews and not the official release. In three days you'll be using iOS 7 like you've been using it for three years. Get over yourself and your OCD and move forward.
Click to expand...
IOS 7 works fine on a 4S but turns a 4 into a useless brick!

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rjlawrencejr said:
As I said earlier in this thread, I must be the exception, because I feel my phone runs better on iOS 7 on my 4 than iOS 6 did. I do consider myself to be a power user too.
Click to expand...

Try writing a message on a 4 "running" IOS7 and you will discover that you no longer have a functional messaging system...I was lucky enough to go back to IOS6 before Apple removed this functionality. Apple recommending this upgrade for iphone 4 is to put it mildly disingenuous!
 
Col Ronson said:
if you read what i said the caps are 100GB+.

The majority of people get broadband thru Cable, not DSL.
Click to expand...

My mum has a 48Mbps LTE connection as her home broadband. Her bandwidth cap is 12GB per month, which is enough as long as she doesn't watch video or have an app automatically download gigabytes in the background.

Some mobile broadband providers (not the one my mum is with, because I didn't let her) charge excess usage bills instead of crippling your connection when you go over the limit. In that case, 1GB or 2GB of excess usage can cost hundreds of dollars.

And it only takes about 3 minutes to download 1GB on a good LTE connection, so keeping an eye on your bandwidth usage (they send a text message to mum) isn't good enough to save you.

Apple should not be using 3GB of disk space and they should not be consuming large amounts of bandwidth without asking the user for permission. This lawsuit is perfectly valid in my opinion.
 
weckart said:
Either English is not your first language or your understanding of common law is shaky at best. 'Other factors' relates quite clearly to the software that shipped (pre-installed!) with the phone and not any subsquent addition.

The point of this thread is that this OTA obviates any choice. Your first paragraph is utter nonsense.
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"Or other software or media".

Admit it. I win this thread. Game over.

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syd430 said:
Stop posting this over and over and clogging this thread. You're not factoring in consent and if the product matches an identical sample at the time of sale. No, OEMs can't just wipe out a significant portion of your storage permanently whenever they please.

Also, even if it was written in Apple's user agreement (which it's not), it still wouldn't necessarily be valid because a contract can't nullify the overbearing consumer protection laws.

Please, at least do a BUSLAW 101 class somewhere to get the basics of your own legal system before posting crap like this.
Click to expand...

There is no violation of any provision of CA's consumer protection law. The storage is not permanently wiped out. Nor is a product required to be 100 percent identical to some sample at the time of sale. If he was unable to use the product he might have a case.
 
I agree with this case against Apple, because it should be up to YOU weather or not things are automatically updated. It's pretty ironic that apps that include it's own ask you to update.
It is daft for them to force a download taking 3GB of space up, on a 16GB iPhone that is stupid. Hmm I remember everyone on here slamming Microsoft for the available space on a Surface, seems Apple are doing a similar thing here.
 
weckart said:
Either English is not your first language or your understanding of common law is shaky at best. 'Other factors' relates quite clearly to the software that shipped (pre-installed!) with the phone and not any subsquent addition.

The point of this thread is that this OTA obviates any choice. Your first paragraph is utter nonsense.
Click to expand...

Actually there is a choice. You are not forced to install the ios update as a whole. If you choose not to you have a little less space.

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mrbrown said:
Really? It's part of my job too and "such as" gives examples - it's not limiting. A basic understanding of contract law and oh, you know, the plain & ordinary meaning of words, would tell you that.

Although, is this even in the iOS software agreement or just a support article? If it's a support article, then why are we even discussing this, since a support article clearly isn't any sort of agreement.

//edit: Okay, yeah, this language is just in the support article. So, the person that keeps posting this needs to shut the front door.
Click to expand...

Oh you want the EULA language? Are you sure? I don't think you do. Okay. Here (thread over):

7.3 TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, THE iOS SOFTWARE AND SERVICES ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE", WITH ALL FAULTS AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, AND APPLE AND APPLE'S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY REFERRED TO AS "APPLE" FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 7 AND 8) HEREBY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES AND CONDITIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE iOS SOFTWARE AND SERVICES, EITHER EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND/OR CONDITIONS OF MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ACCURACY, QUIET ENJOYMENT, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS.

7.4 APPLE DOES NOT WARRANT AGAINST INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE iOS SOFTWARE AND SERVICES, THAT THE FUNCTIONS CONTAINED IN, OR SERVICES PERFORMED OR PROVIDED BY, THE iOS SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, THAT THE OPERATION OF THE iOS SOFTWARE AND SERVICES WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, THAT ANY SERVICE WILL CONTINUE TO BE MADE AVAILABLE, THAT DEFECTS IN THE iOS SOFTWARE OR SERVICES WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THE iOS SOFTWARE WILL BE COMPATIBLE OR WORK WITH ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, APPLICATIONS OR THIRD PARTY SERVICES. INSTALLATION OF THIS iOS SOFTWARE MAY AFFECT THE USABILITY OF THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, APPLICATIONS OR THIRD PARTY SERVICES.

8. Limitation of Liability. TO THE EXTENT NOT PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT SHALL APPLE BE LIABLE FOR PERSONAL INJURY, OR ANY INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, INDIRECT OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, CORRUPTION OR LOSS OF DATA, FAILURE TO TRANSMIT OR RECEIVE ANY DATA, BUSINESS INTERRUPTION OR ANY OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES, ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED TO YOUR USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE iOS SOFTWARE AND SERVICES OR ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE OR APPLICATIONS IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE iOS SOFTWARE OR SERVICES, HOWEVER CAUSED, REGARDLESS OF THE THEORY OF LIABILITY (CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE) AND EVEN IF APPLE HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR PERSONAL INJURY, OR OF INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, SO THIS LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. In no event shall Apple's total liability to you for all damages (other than as may be required by applicable law in cases involving personal injury) exceed the amount of two hundred and fifty dollars (U.S.$250.00). The foregoing limitations will apply even if the above stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.
 
kaldezar said:
Try writing a message on a 4 "running" IOS7 and you will discover that you no longer have a functional messaging system...I was lucky enough to go back to IOS6 before Apple removed this functionality. Apple recommending this upgrade for iphone 4 is to put it mildly disingenuous!
Click to expand...


7.1 will probably fix this if it's true. Until then, do you really need that 3GB that has been sitting there unused until it was taken by 7?
 
xdhd350 said:
If it has the free space, is plugged in, and on wifi, it likely already has. You can determine this by going to General-Software Update. Look underneath the version that's in bold type. It will say Apple Inc. and below that... Downloaded. Congratulations, you've lost some space for your user content.
Click to expand...

good point! I'll have to make sure to never leave that much free space. I'm going to dump some extra content on it right now. It doesn't show as downloaded yet, but says the update is only 900 MB. It needs 3.3 GB Free to install. I guess I just stay maxed out on that iPad. Thanks
 
Also, ever thought to reset and erase everything and restore? This worked when my 3G updated to iOS4 and turned it into a dog. Reset and Erase everything. Then setup as new iPhone. It worked back then, should work now...
 
dBeats said:
I'm totally confused. If you have less than 3GB available, it doesn't delete anything, it just doesn't download. If you have the space available, it downloads it. Someone please tell me how often the use case that for a year or more you've had 3 GB available on your 8 GB device and now suddenly minutes after the phone downloads iOS 7, you suddenly want to use the last 3GB?

People, if you're an Apple user you understand that we don't look back, we look forward. Parking yourself at a point because you don't want to move forward is your choice. But I gotta tell you, I have an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4S both running iOS 7. NO problems. So please stop whining and making assumptions of what will happen if you upgrade based on other people whining about performance issues that were based on developer previews and not the official release. In three days you'll be using iOS 7 like you've been using it for three years. Get over yourself and your OCD and move forward.
Click to expand...

I'll give you an example of people wanting free space on THEIR device. Ever heard of the camera? Lots of people use their iPhone camera all the time. Mostly because the best camera is the one you have with you. Leaving space available for the camera is a very valid reason for keeping it free.

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dBeats said:
Also, ever thought to reset and erase everything and restore? This worked when my 3G updated to iOS4 and turned it into a dog. Reset and Erase everything. Then setup as new iPhone. It worked back then, should work now...
Click to expand...

That doesn't work with iOS7. Once the device is upgraded, the factory defaults are altered to reset back to a fresh iOS7 install.
 
bflowers said:
I'll give you an example of people wanting free space on THEIR device. Ever heard of the camera? Lots of people use their iPhone camera all the time. Mostly because the best camera is the one you have with you. Leaving space available for the camera is a very valid reason for keeping it free.

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That doesn't work with iOS7. Once the device is upgraded, the factory defaults are altered to reset back to a fresh iOS7 install.
Click to expand...

So move some photos and videos to a computer to free up more space or complete the upgrade. Problem solved. No need to resort to litigation.
 
caesarp said:
Actually there is a choice. You are not forced to install the ios update as a whole. If you choose not to you have a little less space.
Click to expand...

Cool.

So it's legal for Apple to hold your storage space hostage until you comply with their "gentle suggestion" of upgrading.

In what universe do you exist in where this is not only morally acceptable, but totally justifiable?

-SC
 
ScottishCaptain said:
Cool.

So it's legal for Apple to hold your storage space hostage until you comply with their "gentle suggestion" of upgrading.

In what universe do you exist in where this is not only morally acceptable, but totally justifiable?

-SC
Click to expand...

Does the device work? Is it usable? I don't think some temporary loss of storage is meaningful. If you need more storage delete some stuff you never use or move it to a computer. I don't think its a moral issue equivalent to the use of chemical weapons on children. And read the EULA I quoted above. It is legal.
 
caesarp said:
Does the device work? Is it usable? I don't think some temporary loss of storage is meaningful. If you need more storage delete some stuff you never use or move it to a computer. I don't think its a moral issue equivalent to the use of chemical weapons on children. And read the EULA I quoted above. It is legal.
Click to expand...

Right.

So it's OK for people to do things that aren't really right or morally grey- it doesn't matter, so long as you're not gassing up little kids with chemical weapons.

That's all I needed to know about you. Thanks for clarifying things.

-SC
 
caesarp said:
Does the device work? Is it usable? I don't think some temporary loss of storage is meaningful. If you need more storage delete some stuff you never use or move it to a computer. I don't think its a moral issue equivalent to the use of chemical weapons on children. And read the EULA I quoted above. It is legal.
Click to expand...

It may indeed be legal, but it is not "good business." I highly doubt that Apple wants to be forced to "go to court" to drag some of their customers to adopt the latest operating system every time an update arrives. I'm no MBA, but that just doesn't look very good from a public relations perspective. Even if they had the best of intentions, Apple reached too far on this one, and they got their hands slapped.
 
springsup said:
There are frivolous lawsuits, but I don't think this is really one of them.

He isn't asking for millions of dollars or filing a class action; and he has a legitimate grievance. He doesn't want to update to iOS7 (which he doesn't have to - maybe he doesn't agree with updates ToS or whatever). He's just lost 3GB of space and can't get it back.

Apple could fix this with a simple "automatically download iPhone updates" switch; similar to what they already have for App updates.

Typically I wouldn't agree to such a toggle, but when the cost is 3GB it kind of sways the decision.

Losing that 3GB can significantly change the nature of the device that you bought. That's why he's filing a lawsuit.
Click to expand...


Wrong...if you don't want to update then get a different phone of deal with the automatic updates that have been in place since iOS5.
 
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