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Much of the point of promoting more manufacturing jobs in the USA is that they pay far more (often multiples) than the current legal minimum wage. The bottom line is the opportunity for workers to earn more, usually much more, than they otherwise would. How is that not a Good Thing?

The positive to Foxconn, if they follow through on both building this plant and paying an average wage of $54k per year, is that it may force other domestic manufacturers (certainly in the midwest near Foxconn's campus) to re-think their typical strategy of off-shoring, moving production to Mexico or suppressing wages in order to maximize profit. Because if they continue to do these things, employees will actually have options to go elsewhere. Of course, it could also force some companies to move entirely out of the country in order to compete - which is in part why we are at where we are right now.

The question you have to ask is will companies be ok with less shareholder profit if they have to pay more in employee wages, or will consumers be willing to pay more for end-product to help justify higher wages for manufacturing? Or both?

Something will have to give in the scenario of bringing on more mid-to-high wage manufacturing jobs. You can't pay people more money if you're not selling your product for a higher price or taking less profit on each sale. In the case of Foxconn, I think their answer has been that they can produce more product per employee, effectively lowering their operations costs, allowing for both higher wages and lower prices for their products.
 
American companies basically invented the electronics industry.
Lots of things were invented in the United States. Since the 1950s, most of the manufacturing of those electronics has been done overseas. Manufacturing of processors in the 90's was done in the US, but that is now done overseas.
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The positive to Foxconn, if they follow through on both building this plant and paying an average wage of $54k per year, is that it may force other domestic manufacturers (certainly in the midwest near Foxconn's campus) to re-think their typical strategy of off-shoring, moving production to Mexico or suppressing wages in order to maximize profit. Because if they continue to do these things, employees will actually have options to go elsewhere.
You are making the assumption that manufacturing employees have the resources to uproot themselves and their families to move to other locations. These employees are not paid enough to accumulate savings for when that move is required. In addition many of those employees had to sign "non-compete" contracts when they started the jobs that will prevent them from going to another manufacturing job.
4 things to know about non-compete laws...
Warehouse workers for Amazon can't work at other companies..
 
This is fun to watch. The media keeps focusing on how Trump can't get any of is big agenda items through congress. Meanwhile in the background Trump is encouraging companies to create jobs here in the U.S. and basically acting as a conduit to pump up the economy. I will be surprised if we hear a peep about this on the liberal media outlets.

Maybe he can encourage his own clothing company to create jobs here.

And don't worry, I'm sure the conservative media will be exaggerating his efforts enough for you.
 
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Let’s draw distinctions here too. It was not hundreds of millions. It was one. We can of course equate that to inflation in today’s terms, but the fact is he received one. To stretch that to hundreds, is beyond insane. Even with inflation.

Since you seem to believe that you're talking about things in a factual manner, here's an article that describes exactly how Donald Trump got his start in real estate. Looks like his father did much, much, MUCH more than simply loan him $1 million...as in signing on along with Hyatt Hotels to guarantee the $70 million that was actually required to get the deal moving.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.fd6a4cc596f1
 
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Since you seem to believe that you're talking about things in a factual manner, here's an article that describes exactly how Donald Trump got his start in real estate. Looks like his father did much, much, MUCH more than simply loan him $1 million...as in signing on along with Hyatt Hotels to guarantee the $70 million that was actually required to get the deal moving.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-loan-from-his-father/?utm_term=.fd6a4cc596f1

Fake news CIA Bezos’s Post has a “Pinocchio test” of truth in this article, and I’m supposed to take it seriously?

$1 million was to get him started.

You can analyze this ad nauseum, you’re obsessing over total nonsense like people of extreme opposition (dare I say #resistance) so often do. Caring about inconsequential things and making it your mantra and central thesis of how to go about understanding a reality that you are trying to have confirmed.

They are arguing he moved inheretence funds around of $7 million in 2007????

Am I to believe Donald Trump became a staple name for businessman/real estate dude, starting in 2007? And never prior?

I wont contest that its possible funds moved around within his family at some point in time, makes sense. Seems plausible.

But again, $1 million was to get him started.

No matter the amount, on top of it, And my main point is there is a thing called trust fund kids. Most waste it away on drugs or appeasing other people or just overshooting their limits too early on,

Trump apparently wasn’t that, because he is now president of the US. Trust fund kids dont really make it that far by definition despite being afforded relatively endless opportunities.



It gives me a headache how analytical you guys are, without seeing any of the bigger picture or even be willing to accept that you may be analytical to a fault, to the extent that again you are looking for reasons to make benign, and in the case of Foxconn coming to US, a good thing, out to be some long running sinister plan, or spun as something that could be Obama’s and consistent to that, to that all of a sudden a good thing except without a shred of evidence. I.e Russia gate in summation.

You want the smoking gun, but all you’ve come up with is nothingburgers. One after another.

That’s what hysterical anti-Trumpers do. It’s cool man, not trying to convince you of anything. Keep on hating On an administration half a year in like they retroactively ruined everything else leading up until that, you obviously enjoy it And it helps you cope with who’s president in 2017. We do have a ways to go though, so I hope you are in it for the long haul and dont give up on your unfounded convictions.

I just don’t know , or genuinely understand, how you guys have the will to care to the extent you do, like your significant other cheated on you with Trump, or Trump took some cookies out of your cookie jar in your kitchen. Your affection for obama presumably was unrelenting and personal, and your hatred for Trump now feels personal too because even if he cured cancer, it would be bad somehow and an ego move.

I dont get where the personal strong sense of attachment, or in this case, detachment fits in.

I dont feel personally attached to Trump despite generally being on board with his policies, and thinking he’s got his head in the right place. I dont think he’s going to tuck me in at night, or shoot me a text in a bit. Or any of that.

Get a grip on the vitriol some of you are spouting, you may not even be aware of what you are demonstrating.
 
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That’s a rather naive non-commital position to hold, that no one is responsible.

How egalitarian of you. It came from the sky.

That’s why its 2020 expected to roll out.

Takes several years.

Also, seems like
Plausible- guy w no biz experience did it, maybe, but not necessarily, on unfounded speculation that major moves happened during his term, which is now in the past
implausible- guy w biz experience had anything to do with it whatsoever, under his term, and expected to roll out at end of first term, completely beyond reasonable doubt

You seem to be talking around the point in my comment, which is that this deal almost certainly took a lot longer than six months to hammer out. And the reason why I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to EITHER admin is because companies tend to go where they want to go for profits' sake, and not because of the current leader of the country.
 
You seem to be talking around the point in my comment, which is that this deal almost certainly took a lot longer than six months to hammer out. And the reason why I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to EITHER admin is because companies tend to go where they want to go for profits' sake, and not because of the current leader of the country.


No, i think i understand your philsophical overview. Correlation is not causation.

Then again that would mean we’re back to this point:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ory-in-wisconsin.2058620/page-5#post-24838022

And arguing circularly that because correlation is not causation, by that same logic, we cant attribute positive things to obama’s Administration either, even if the timeline coincides and it did technically occur under his administration and was for achievements which he spoke about positively in speeches too

But again to re-iterate, i dont and wouldn’t want to maintain that view, because that seems juvenile and like something that we could easily move past and both concede with relative ease is bogus from both perspectives
 
Fake news CIA Bezos’s Post has a “Pinocchio test” of truth in this article, and I’m supposed to take it seriously?
$1 million was to get him started.

You're supposed to take it seriously because the funding for the project is a matter of public record. There's no question that the $1 million loan wasn't enough for Trump to finance the hotel. His father and Hyatt Hotels were the guarantors for the $70 MILLION LOAN that was required for the bank to fund the project. $70 million, not $1 million, and Trump's father and Hyatt were the ones that secured/signed for it.
 
You're supposed to take it seriously because the funding for the project is a matter of public record. There's no question that the $1 million loan wasn't enough for Trump to finance the hotel. His father and Hyatt Hotels were the guarantors for the $70 MILLION LOAN that was required for the bank to fund the project. $70 million, not $1 million, and Trump's father and Hyatt were the ones that secured/signed for it.

Calm down with caps bro. A SEVENTY MILLION LOAN! Lol

You take it so personal, its great. like it was 70 million out of your pockets.

Defending The Washington Post / Amazon post / CIA post, like its your mums and pups paper. I dont have skin in the battle aside from wanting to understand where u guys come up with all this effort to defend dying media entities that spout lies repeatedly. It’s some twilight zone stuff from my perspective.

No matter the amount, on top of it, And my main point is there is a thing called trust fund kids. Most waste it away on drugs or appeasing other people or just overshooting their limits too early on,

Trump apparently wasn’t that, because he is now president of the US. Trust fund kids dont really make it that far by definition despite being afforded relatively endless opportunities.

Check this out ^ you’re again missing my larger point, which you cant address. So you get full blown hysterical and drown in the details. i cant explain why people do this, except as a distraction from facing some raw realities that oops, maybe i am wrong, and maybe i have gotten a little extreme and let my bias determine where I let facts take me.

See everything below the quote too starting with “you guys give me a headache” if you didn’t catch it before

I think you’re missing the bigger observation as people of extreme opposition predictably do.

Hysteria cannot and will not substitute for addressing the larger question: if Trump is an unsuccessful trust fund kid who wasted away and never made anything of his life, how is he president? And how has he managed to stay away from drinking/drugs/etc?

Can anyone do this? It would appear the answer is no.

Could even 70 million alone do this? It would appear this answer is again, no.

Hillary’s 2016 campaign cost her $1 billion, to put this number hurling game, into perspective.

And are we now calling her President Clinton? Probably some are, out of pure derangement and denial, but no, most and in fact the overwhelming majority 99.9% even people who dont like Trump whatsoever, aren’t calling Hillary president in 2017.

So whats your point aside from you dont like Trump and your grasping for anything to corrobate your firm, unrelenting stance?
 
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Calm down with caps bro. A SEVENTY MILLION LOAN! Lol

You take it so personal, its great. like it was 70 million out of your pockets.

And it's great that you've got no response to the truth: Trump's dad and Hyatt made the deal happen, not Trump. It's just another one of Trump's lies about his business career.
 
Foxconn is receiving $3 Billion in direct government handouts with probably a lot more giveaways. For 3000 jobs. Welfare to ordinary people is a tiny fraction of corporate welfare. If corps paid their fair share of taxes and paid workers decently, there would be no need for welfare.

A little simple. It is not a corporation's responsibility to give everybody a job. The payment part doesn't even figure.
There are too many people in this world and more born everyday. No way they can all get a job, let alone well paid.
Then there are workshy people, mentally lazy, non skilled or incapable to get skills , generations of welfare former "soul train" recipients and the list goes on.

All in all it is a mess corporations have nothing to do with.
 
And it's great that you've got no response to the truth: Trump's dad and Hyatt made the deal happen, not Trump. It's just another one of Trump's lies about his business career.

I dont mind quoting myself again, but this is getting kinda silly at the same time since its on the same page as where i end up quoting it from

Like I said dude, its tough addressing larger questions and not getting drowned in insignificant details or derailing with your emotionally charged dribble, that I didn’t want to get into to begin with, since I’m no accountant, or financier, or particularly even care, but felt it was somewhat fitting to do and pretend obsess about since people are obsessing over 3k vs 13k jobs claim distinction (the 13k number which was for the last time, something that Foxconn originally said),

I’ll indulge in any case:

Hysteria cannot and will not substitute for addressing the larger question: if Trump is an unsuccessful trust fund kid who wasted away and never made anything of his life, how is he president? And how has he managed to stay away from drinking/drugs/etc?

Can anyone do this? It would appear the answer is no.

Could even 70 million alone do this? It would appear this answer is again, no.

Hillary’s 2016 campaign cost her $1 billion, to put this number hurling game, into perspective.

And are we now calling her President Clinton? Probably some are, out of pure derangement and denial, but no, most and in fact the overwhelming majority 99.9% even people who dont like Trump whatsoever, aren’t calling Hillary president in 2017.

So whats your point aside from you dont like Trump and your grasping for anything to corrobate your firm, unrelenting stance?
 
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"He entered office during the recession, so there was a lot to improve by."

I just deal with the facts. When put against other presidents in terms of job creation and the position he was coming into he is up there with the best of them. The data proves that. There's no way around that one.

Now how it "feels" maybe different depending on where you're sitting and how you've been programmed. Obama didnt spend 8yrs having a go at Bush's legacy which was appalling. Whereas Trump has dedicated his life to making sure everything that has Obama's name on it is trashed (even his birth certificate!).

Personally I think he is a victim of his own campaign. I think people expected miracles in every area of the country with Obama appearing completely different to the type of people that normally are in charge (different race, background etc..). And I feel people are let down that he was more normal than different. He is not a radical, though his campaign message looked like he was. However, as you say he was "decent", decent man. And I think America needed a decent man to run the country at that time. And he did that well.

Now we know what it's like to have a decent man, and one who is by his own admission, "thoroughly indecent". In 3 yrs time we will see which style the country prefers.
The job creation levels in the most recent recovery (Obama's first term) were considered weak by all historical measures. Sure, the absolute numbers looked good for him but that's like buying a penny stock and have it go somewhere.
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This is a Pyrrhic victory for Trump, nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't show forward looking, progressive business or government strategies; It shows that the incumbent government wants to ignore the pressing issues of the foremost industries by strengthening industries whose times have passed. They are treating the symptoms, not the cause.

Apart from 3000-13000 low-paid jobs I ask you, what good does it do? Does it trigger any sustainable development? Does it increase production quality?

Sure thing, it means not exploiting sub-minimum wage workers in China. That might be the only upside to it.
The jobs being created have a high average salary/wage and what about modern display panels suggests it's an industry "whose time has passed"? So many comments in this thread trying to turn this Foxconn investment into a buggy whip venture.
 
The problem with Tim Cook is that his reasons are complete bull ****. For example the city I live next to has been known for its large tool and die industry for decades, literally employing thousands making machinery for all over the world. The talent has always been here. The pool might not be was large as it once was but that is more due to shipping so many jobs over seas to China.

What is sad is that many don't recognizes that there are many good jobs to be had in a factory in engineering and management. People associate manufacturing with low end jobs but the tis not a reflection of reality. Yes the production worker is a low end position but there are people out there perfectly suited for such jobs. Manufacturing brings balance to the work force.

I agree with you 110%. Balance to the workforce plus not to mention many jobs requiring vocational skills actually pay very well. Our society has done itself a horrible disservice only pushing college on people.
 
Wow...
$10B will only provide 3000 jobs?
and to think there are millions and millions of people looking for jobs. How much will it take?
 
I detest Trump's politics and think he's an embarrassment to the office he holds and to this nation, but this is a good thing if it comes to fruition. Personally I also think politicians and voters on both sides overestimate how much their candidate can affect the economy. Foxconn promised a factory in Pennsylvania that was never built. It's important to remember that the company also received $3 Billion in incentives.
 
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Thank you for this. You have very succinctly exposed one of the hard decisions that moderates such as myself face as we head to the polls: Which of the 2 choices is the greater evil?

Personally, I feel that (better regulated!) protection for the poor is key. Rich people are rich, and typically that will not change under a "bad run" that breaks the middle and lower classes.

For example I could only dream of saving $200K now, let alone by age 30. When you're born poor the struggle to get ahead is way, way harder than those from the middle or upper classes.

After 15 years of military service, and a medical separation (with no retirement benefits), I was left with zero career, zero insurance, and zero savings, while supporting a family of 6, (and no daddy to set me up with a "small" $1M loan ;)).

It's hard for the wealthy to truly understand the panic and desperation of being in a situation like that.

If it wasn't for the current safety nets (and the small severance I got from the military), I would not have been able to afford to go back to school and rebuild a career from scratch (given my medical issue prevented me from performing the job I was trained for in the military). Now I was able to pay my loans back, support my family, and get back on my feet, as it were.

I had to use every safety net I could for 4 long years.

So for me it just seems like it's hard for many rich (Republicans) to have empathy for the poor because their parents or grandparents built themselves up from nothing at a different time in our history or under different circumstances, or they were born into money (like our current cartoon-character of a President).

If anything, we as Americans need to ensure that, among everything else, the middle and lower classes have protection from the wealthy captains of industry.

For they hold all the keys. All the power. They are, and always have been, the slave-masters.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for your perseverance and service to our country. Thank you for that.

What seems to be a broad misconception, though, is this notion that many if not most Republicans were born with a silver spoon in their hand. Nothing could be further from the truth! I'm a conservative and a Republican. I was given nothing by my parents who were given nothing by theirs and most conservatives I know have similar background stories to mine. What does seem to be a recurring theme is they all worked for what they have and expected nothing from the government in the process. BTW, all of the conservatives I know fully support safety nets for those who have no ability to take care of themselves. Are you sure you're not a conservative, too?
 
Lots of things were invented in the United States. Since the 1950s, most of the manufacturing of those electronics has been done overseas. Manufacturing of processors in the 90's was done in the US, but that is now done overseas.
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You are making the assumption that manufacturing employees have the resources to uproot themselves and their families to move to other locations. These employees are not paid enough to accumulate savings for when that move is required. In addition many of those employees had to sign "non-compete" contracts when they started the jobs that will prevent them from going to another manufacturing job.
4 things to know about non-compete laws...
Warehouse workers for Amazon can't work at other companies..

I was really trying to suggest, in the case of Foxconn in particular, that it would be for those companies within an area near their campus in the midwest (which could include people coming from Illinois, possibly even Indiana and Michigan.

And I agree, but would suggest that it's not just manufacturing workers who don't have the resources to uproot their families. It's an issue for many people today including those in white collar jobs, who are not making enough money, or have spouses working elsewhere that keep them from being able to move to take a new job.

Regarding non-competes, they are typically used within certain categories of industry, not broadly as in you were making car wheels, but now can't get a job making lcd screens. And the law is pretty clear on protecting employee rights to work within their industry, even in cases where a non-compete has been signed. I went through this myself and although the threat was made to stop me from taking a job at another company within the same industry, it was just a bunch of hot air on the part of my former employer.
 
Maybe he can encourage his own clothing company to create jobs here.

And don't worry, I'm sure the conservative media will be exaggerating his efforts enough for you.

Nice deflection. If you hate Trump and everything he is doing you will never recognize the positive things and I sure as heck am not going to waste my time trying to get you to see things beyond your own nose. Have a nice day.
 
I don’t think so. They are an American company, created in the US and where the headquarters are located, whose products say Made in China etched in small letters on the backside

No one can deny their reach/demand/influence is global. But they are not a global company. unless you consider that the current CEO is an outright globalist, then I can concede:

http://fortune.com/2017/03/18/trump-tim-cook-globalization/


I don't really understand your point about Apple being an American company. The physical location of a corporate headquarters has mattered less and less as supply chains and markets have expanded. Markets are international and global, and so Apple is too, no matter how much people yearn for the 1950s. I can't help feeling that your contempt for the global market and the "globalists" is misguided and perhaps even a dog whistle for an ideology much more sinister than any protectionist trade policy.
 
I don't really understand your point about Apple being an American company. The physical location of a corporate headquarters has mattered less and less as supply chains and markets have expanded. Markets are international and global, and so Apple is too, no matter how much people yearn for the 1950s. I can't help feeling that your contempt for the global market and the "globalists" is misguided and perhaps even a dog whistle for an ideology much more sinister than any protectionist trade policy.


Global market/globalization intertwined and "globalists" (masquerading as people/groups pushing 'globalization,' most specifically Soros) are two entirely separate animals, do not conflate the two.

When people do, they often do not understand what being a globalist truly means. And ill save that rant for another day, if you don't know, you don't know. Its rather nuanced, but also one of those obvious things once you start tuning in. and sorry to be abstract, but maybe you'll care maybe you wont.

can't spoonfeed it all. if you care you'll find a way to research. if you don't you wont. free will is sweet. and google.com has its perks even though I'm not crazy about the company itself

--

..And I didn't wanna spend time obsessing over Apple being an American company, quite frankly.

it just came up, it was met with odd contention, and I re-iterated its not wrong when people state they are an American company for a series of reasons, and Apple is often referred to as that.

I'm uninterested in re-starting this one,
 
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Nice deflection. If you hate Trump and everything he is doing you will never recognize the positive things and I sure as heck am not going to waste my time trying to get you to see things beyond your own nose. Have a nice day.

If it's deflecting to point out the hypocrisy of the man - telling other companies to manufacture in the U.S. when he himself isn't - then you are as closed minded as you think I am. Have a nice day.
 
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