Apple Supplier TSMC Delays Production of 4nm Chips at Arizona Factory Due to Skilled Worker Shortage

[Macaholic868]

THIS is the problem with manufacturing in America. It's not that Americans get higher wages, it's that a large enough number of Americans don't have the skills needed by today's high-tech manufacturers. Companies have no choice but to turn to Asia and India. America is so behind the rest of the world it's not even funny.

There was a time when the opposite was true as well. When you allow all the jobs in a sector to be outsourced for 20+ years you’re not going to natively have a population with the skills you need suddenly appear out of thin air. Workers have to be trained.

It’s got nothing to do with the quality of workers and everything to do with the unfair trade practices that got us here in the first place. What’s important now is that we’ve finally recognized what a mistake that was for both economic and national security reasons and are in the process of bringing some of these jobs back but it’s going to take time just like it took when we started allowing unfair trade and companies producing products overseas had to go there, take US workers with them and train their native populations to do the same thing.

 

[sevoneone]

Retired or dead? Sounds like a job for a good TechnoNecromancer.

That or unexperienced with the level of precision needed for a state of the art fab. Reading about the vibration isolation and how precise measurements need to be almost makes it sound like it would be easier to build the entire facility in space.

 

[Gudi]

Probably one of the main reasons why China would like to eh acquire Taiwan. They are the mother lode of chip making and the most advanced.

Nonsense! Europe and especially the Netherlands are the center of advanced chipmaking technology. Taiwan has only specialized in running factories full of Dutch extreme ultraviolet lithography (EUVL) machines from ASML. You can't conquer a single one link in the value chain and expect to gain the same benefits. Only a fully assembled iPhone Pro at the end is worth $1000 and pays for all of its components including the 3nm factory. You would need to conquer the entire Western world to reap the benefits of this advanced technology. There's a reason why globalization is built on voluntary cooperation of business partners and not the military might of the US Navy. Apple paid its way to become TSMCs most important customer, who is ASMLs most important customer, who is ZEISS most important customer. Apple fanboys paved the way, when they paid premium prices for Intel Macs, which were ahead in software and design, but not on hardware. For a long time Apple didn't waste its profit margin on paying huge dividends to stockholders, but reinvested everything to gain this outstanding market position. China wants Taiwan so that their communist slave workers don't wake up and start demanding democracy (again).

 

[sevoneone]

There was a time when the opposite was true as well. When you allow all the jobs in a sector to be outsourced for 20+ years you’re not going to natively have a population with the skills you need suddenly appear out of thin air. Workers have to be trained.

It isn't as easy as just training. Generational and systemic knowledge than only comes with experience plays a huge part in manufacturing and we've got a major gap that will take 10-15 years to even begin to close.

 

[laptech]

The machines to produce the chips are made by an European company, not American.

Also Intel relies on this European company to make it's chip.

Your not reading properly. The issue is building the FACTORIES, not the chip machines.

 

[laptech]

Retired or dead? Sounds like a job for a good TechnoNecromancer.

I would assume many of the original factory builders would be in their 50's or 60's now but with managers and supervisors being traditionally older, probably dead. Even if some are still alive, that experience is there and can be handed down to the new generation of factory builders. At the end of the day it still comes down to money. How much is TSMC prepared to pay to get that experience from skilled and experienced US ex-factory builders.

 

[Anaxarxes]

Just gon leave this here (again)

Apple's Tim Cook: China Offers Skilled Workers

The CEO spoke with FORTUNE December 2017.

fortune.com

 

[vladi]

Reportedly, some of the issue is that Intel (which also has tons of fabs/expansion in the area) pays better, and has better hours.

No way! Chinese don't wanna pay up? No way!

 

[vladi]

Apple can't win with some people

consumer: "i want Apple to support unions!"
also consumer: "i want Apple to stop taking advantage of kids in China"
also consumer: "i want Apple to pay employees more!"
also consumer: "i want Apple to give me more free iCloud storage!"
also consumer: "i want Apple to include the charging brick!"

and then consumer goes: "why are prices increasing???"

i'm surprised tim cook puts up with all of these complaints. i would have left the job years ago.

Apple didn't do any of that but prices keep going up. Also Apple had to give Chinese some manufacturing setup and design know-how in order to make their iPhones over there and in return they single handedly created Chinese mobile industry which now dominates the whole world with their dump subsidized pricing.

 

[bgillander]

Too many students studying journalism and other BS "professions."

Seems ironic to see journalism referred to as a “BS profession” on a forum called “News Discussion”, but that pretty much sums up 2023, I guess.

 

[vladi]

The machines to produce the chips are made by an European company, not American.

Also Intel relies on this European company to make it's chip.

That European company has been marked as the entity of US national security importance and now are not allowed to sell to Asian countries anything that is not at least three generations old or something to that context.

 

[macduke]

What do you expect when you defund education, make college prohibitively expensive, and are decades removed from a bipartisan effort to move manufacturing overseas? We are not cutting edge, and most of our software and service jobs are on the verge of being largely replaced by AI and robotics by the end of this decade.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Seems ironic to see journalism referred to as a “BS profession” on a forum called “News Discussion”, but that pretty much sums up 2023, I guess.

I am glad those with degrees in journalism are not near building chips or manufacturing. They can continue to create their own narratives for news, with their valuable degrees.

 

[jaworq]

I’m pretty sure it’s not “skilled worker shortage” but the problem with the salary offered for this position. No American wants to work for such a low wage 🤣 that’s why they have to bring Taiwan workers to USA xD lmao.

 

[mdriftmeyer]

Why 4nm when 3nm is already there?

3nm isn't ready.

 

[Andreas from Zurich]

What, all these individuals who „do their own research“ aren’t qualified?

 

[laptech]

What I find interesting is that companies are building chip factories in India, a country that does not have experience of building such factories but yet we do not hear of shortage of skills there and why? could it be because India has low wages such as China does and thus has no problem finding people willing to build chip factories but yet when those companies go to a country that has much better workers rights and wages what do we hear/read? that the country has a skills shortage. In this context 'skills shortage' is another way of saying 'we are not prepared to pay good wages'.

 

[XXPP]

I don't get it. All these millions of college students, all of these degrees, all these student loans we "must" cancel for their benefit... and we don't have skilled workers? What?!? /s

Millions study useless but easy things. Only the Chinese want to learn technology and mathematics.

 

[Scott6666]

THIS is the problem with manufacturing in America. It's not that Americans get higher wages, it's that a large enough number of Americans don't have the skills needed by today's high-tech manufacturers. Companies have no choice but to turn to Asia and India. America is so behind the rest of the world it's not even funny.

How would you expect the US to have experienced, trained workers when there are no facilities in the US for people to gain experience?

Are there vocational training programs for this? College courses? The company or the government should expect to train up people.

 

[tkaravou]

If villagers in china and india manage just fine, pretty sure the problem isn't skills.

They just don't wanna pay

It's very different. The way they operate there is each person is assigned one task and that's all they ever need to learn. Let's say there's 1000 tasks required to build something, they throw 1000 people to the task and they're good. In the US, because wages are so much higher, each person needs to do way more, say 20-30 tasks and then they can hire fewer people to offset the wage differences. This is an oversimplification obviously but that's a big part of the issue.

 

[adrianlondon]

Okay, stop complaining and git'r done. 🤌

All 👆 tech should be in North America.

So ... Canada. Where it's usually nice and cool 😆

 

[eruruu]

At the earnings call executives mentioned many times the need government support, just mentioned leak of skilled staff once, TSCM is delaying the US fab operation by intended, they still not satisfied with the terms of the Chips Act incentives, and local supply chain is not ready yet. Labour issues is a scapegoat.

 

[ikramerica]

Oh wow crazy how hot it get there!!

In the show “Arrested Development” the main character Michael always dreamed of leaving his family behind and moving to Phoenix. He finally does that in a later season, gets off the plane, burns his hand on a taxi, realizes how hot it is, and immediately flies back to his family in Newport Beach.

 

[Mr_Risin_Mojo]

Money makes the wafer go round...

 

[bgillander]

With unemployment at its lowest ever? If there’s all these skilled workers sitting around, what do you think the problem is?

Sorry, are you saying workers sit around when unemployment is low? Traditionally, the thinking is that they sit around when unemployment is high, and are busy working when it is low.