Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account

[macphisto]

If you don’t like the 30%, figure out how to modify your business model. Don’t just complain about it. For example, if you make an app that customers enjoy then charge 1.99 or more for the in app purchase vs .99. That way you cover your expenses for development, marketing and everything else, and make more money.

Someone made the point about the trust that the app stores (Apple and Google) with the customers. I am more comfortable buying an app through these markets (you could add Amazon for marketplace transactions), then buying an app from some indie developer in some other country or even in the US. I know that using Apple, Google or Amazon will protect my payment method much more than a small developer using who knows what shopping cart.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Oh, I'm not saying Apple is not following it's own made up rules.
I'm just saying it does have total full choice in what it does.
It could chose to cut the app store fee to 15% next week, and probably all these problems and arguments would simply vanish.
It has total control and choice.
Just I have issues with them making out this is somehow set in stone by others and they have no choise whatsoever, which I'm sure you would agree is factually not the case.

"own made up rules" = Microsoft did 30% back in 2004 with the Xbox. Its an industry standard.

Frankly, they should charge MORE.

 

[russell_314]

Let’s see if Apple allows a fortnite clone under that name to pop up on the App Store

If it follows the app store policy I don't see why they wouldn't

 

[laptech]

The case still forced Microsoft to change. Pointless to continue to comment back and fourth if you can’t see this. Go read about the case and how it affected Microsoft.

The Microsoft case and what's going on with Apple and Epic are very similar. Microsoft set terms and conditions on computer manufacturers that prevented them from packaging other web browsers with the machine. Microsoft at the time said, 'our operating, our rules'. The courts disagreed and forced Microsoft to change it's ways.

Now with regards to the app store, there are other pay systems out there that can be used by app developers but Apple say's they must use Apples pay system and can only use Apple's pay system otherwise they will get banned from the store and because there is only one store, app developers are forced to abide by the rules. Apple are doing exactly what Microsoft did all those years ago 'our app store, our rules'. The courts will disagree, just like they did with Microsoft.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

End of an eara...as in, my ear hurts from hearing about this drama as it has unfolded.

 

[Rogifan]

100% false. Android has alternate app stores, but fortnite also sued google because they want to be on the Play store.

Epic went to the play store because they didn’t like the warning messages when someone tried to download outside the play store. They felt the messages were alarmist enough that people would choose not to download thinking something bad was going to happen to their device.

lol how did Apple survive without 30 percent cut on the Mac? Funny how people are so blind and love this prison Apple has built on iOS. We can have a nice secure iOS without such draconian policies.

This is a good question. Somehow Apple survived (and was doing quite nicely) before App Store and IAP. Apple could solve this. They could allow developers to offer their own IAP alongside Apple’s. They could cut the fee from 30% to 15% (on everything not just subscriptions). They could offer gatekeeper. Treating iOS a little bit more like the Mac is not going to be the end of Apple as we know it.

 

[hans1972]

It was completely absurd to make the statement that what Epic is doing is 'putting the entire App Store at risk' more or less -- for what? A fair shake? More agreeable terms? Putting up a fight without rolling over, even if they lost

But Epic did put the entire App Store at risk for Apple. If Epic wins, the business model of the App Store will be seriously undermined and the ability for Apple to make huge profits can disappear.

 

[2010mini]

Apple is not hurting for money, so 2020 market will have no effect. lol think again

I wasn't talking about Apple's earnings.
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Billions with their tax avoidance? 🤣 That was a good one...

Who is talking abut taxes?

 

[WiseAJ]

It’s not ended, yet.

EPIC will win, and Apple will have to pay damages later.
Ohh boy this will be expensive for Apple... 🤣
damages for EPIC
damages for antitrust in EU
damages for antitrust in US
plus a few other damages

Epic isn't going to get any damages from Apple even if they do win the lawsuit since they are choosing to keep Fortnite off the App Store. All they have to do is bring the app back into guidelines and Apple would let them back in and then should they miraculously win they could get damages for the difference of the 30% Apple takes and whatever gets ruled as fair by the judge.

 

[Stuey3D]

The CCP isn't going to give up on this one. We pissed them off by banning Huawei and now it's payback time.

And you have hit the nail on the head, I said this on an earlier thread too.

Epic is 40% owned by Tencent which is associated with the CCP. Trump is trying to ban Chinese hardware and apps and as part of this is trying to ban Apple & Google selling/hosting Chinese developed apps. Epic’s goal here is not to save a few $ but to force Apple to open iOS to other App stores. This is beneficial because:
A: Chinese apps can then be sold through Epic
B: Epic can do what it has with the PC market and sign up exclusives and prevent them being sold on Apple’s store.

Because iOS is locked down this is why Epic is focussing more on Apple with the lawsuits and ad campaigns and the Google lawsuit has largely dropped into the background, nobody is talking about that one anymore.

 

[Piggie]

Target should cut prices too!
And grocery stores!
and pizza places!

But why? Because you feel they should?

Not what I feel.
It's a matter for both sides to come to an agreement on.
Times change, policies change, viewpoints and opinions change.
Just because something was agreed upon, perhaps 10 years ago, does not mean it has to apply exactly the same 10 years later.

Example, let's say 10 years ago I sold things in your shop, perhaps 10 items a week, and you took 50% cut.
10 years later, I'm selling 100 items a week or even 1000 items a week, you are making a ton more money thanks to selling my items.
Given the large amount more money, we could have a chat and talk about the 50% we originally agreed upon as times and revenue was different back then.

 

[ervingv]

The Microsoft case and what's going on with Apple and Epic are very similar. Microsoft set terms and conditions on computer manufacturers that prevented them from packaging other web browsers with the machine. Microsoft at the time said, 'our operating, our rules'. The courts disagreed and forced Microsoft to change it's ways.

Now with regards to the app store, there are other pay systems out there that can be used by app developers but Apple say's they must use Apples pay system and can only use Apple's pay system otherwise they will get banned from the store and because there is only one store, app developers are forced to abide by the rules. Apple are doing exactly what Microsoft did all those years ago 'our app store, our rules'. The courts will disagree, just like they did with Microsoft.

🎉 I agree. You are one of few on this forum who understand the issue.

 

[hans1972]

Amazon and Apple have made a side agreement to allow in-app movie rentals.
So Apple can be flexible when they want to be.

It is an agreement open to everyone who makes the requirement. I believe Amazon was not even the first company to get this deal. At least two French companies has the same arrangements which require that you support Apple TV.

 

[Piggie]

"own made up rules" = Microsoft did 30% back in 2004 with the Xbox. Its an industry standard.

Frankly, they should charge MORE.

Yes their own rules.
When did Apple ever do anything simply because other people do it.
They are big enough to make their own choices at all points.

They will change their current policy on this, and also other items, such as currently blocking games streaming services.
It's only a matter of time and if thy do it through choice or being forced to legally.

 

[Stuey3D]

lol how did Apple survive without 30 percent cut on the Mac? Funny how people are so blind and love this prison Apple has built on iOS. We can have a nice secure iOS without such draconian policies.

Because I don’t need a virus checker on my iPhone like you do on an Android.

If you want an open platform to do as you please and potentially screw up choose Android, if you want the safety blanket of the walled garden choose iOS. It’s a simple choice at the end of the day.

As I said on another thread most smartphone users are tech illiterate morons and for those people the walled garden approach protects them from scams and viruses far more than Android’s approach.

 

[rjohnstone]

“Apple says that disabling in-app purchases will protect users as Fortnite's new season launches as Epic had been directing users to Apple's support staff to get purchase refunds.”

So Epic is happy to direct customer to Apple support staff. Doesn’t this indirectly admit Apple provides support for that 30% fee...

Apple are the ones who processed the transaction so they pretty have to provide support for it.
If Epic handled the transaction, Apple support would not be required.

 

[ervingv]

I wasn't talking about Apple's earnings.
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Who is talking abut taxes?

lol then be more clear on what you are talking about.

 

[macphisto]

The Microsoft case and what's going on with Apple and Epic are very similar. Microsoft set terms and conditions on computer manufacturers that prevented them from packaging other web browsers with the machine. Microsoft at the time said, 'our operating, our rules'. The courts disagreed and forced Microsoft to change it's ways.

Now with regards to the app store, there are other pay systems out there that can be used by app developers but Apple say's they must use Apples pay system and can only use Apple's pay system otherwise they will get banned from the store and because there is only one store, app developers are forced to abide by the rules. Apple are doing exactly what Microsoft did all those years ago 'our app store, our rules'. The courts will disagree, just like they did with Microsoft.

Microsoft dictated rules to manufacturers when there was principally only their OS, which was why they were required to change their practices.

 

[robotnomad]

Rather captain obvious I know but it's becoming more and more evident that little scheming Timmy has zero intention of ever requesting Fortnite be returned to either IOS or Google in its previous form instead going full throttle for his plans to have his own epic app direct payments with zero monetary intrusion from owners on any platform he chooses.

I think tomorrow I will set up my own confectionery table within Tesco which means all sales all profit baby if Timmy can do it so can I!!!!

 

[russell_314]

And you have hit the nail on the head, I said this on an earlier thread too.

Epic is 40% owned by Tencent which is associated with the CCP. Trump is trying to ban Chinese hardware and apps and as part of this is trying to ban Apple & Google selling/hosting Chinese developed apps. Epic’s goal here is not to save a few $ but to force Apple to open iOS to other App stores. This is beneficial because:
A: Chinese apps can then be sold through Epic
B: Epic can do what it has with the PC market and sign up exclusives and prevent them being sold on Apple’s store.

Because iOS is locked down this is why Epic is focussing more on Apple with the lawsuits and ad campaigns and the Google lawsuit has largely dropped into the background, nobody is talking about that one anymore.

It's sad that Apple has become an innocent target of the trade war. I guess the same thing could be said for Huawei. I'm not a big fan of Android phones but they make a very nice product.

 

[rjp1]

… and in return Apple promotes PUBG, so Tencent doesn’t suffer too much from Fortnite’s absence on iOS.

Time to make them a choice - do you want to be an American or Chinese company?

 

[ervingv]

Because I don’t need a virus checker on my iPhone like you do on an Android.

If you want an open platform to do as you please and potentially screw up choose Android, if you want the safety blanket of the walled garden choose iOS. It’s a simple choice at the end of the day.

As I said on another thread most smartphone users are tech illiterate morons and for those people the walled garden approach protects them from scams and viruses far more than Android’s approach.

If the smartphone users are morons and screw up, that’s on them. You don’t need a virus checker on Android.

 

[bobbie424242]

But Epic did put the entire App Store at risk for Apple. If Epic wins, the business model of the App Store will be seriously undermined and the ability for Apple to make huge profits can disappear.

Apple already makes huge profits with hardware sales and its own services. It will do just fine without most of the 30% app sales pie. More money to developers is generally a good thing vs making Apple the first 3 or 4 trillion dollars company faster...

 

[Rogifan]

If you don’t like the 30%, figure out how to modify your business model. Don’t just complain about it. For example, if you make an app that customers enjoy then charge 1.99 or more for the in app purchase vs .99. That way you cover your expenses for development, marketing and everything else, and make more money.

Someone made the point about the trust that the app stores (Apple and Google) with the customers. I am more comfortable buying an app through these markets (you could add Amazon for marketplace transactions), then buying an app from some indie developer in some other country or even in the US. I know that using Apple, Google or Amazon will protect my payment method much more than a small developer using who knows what shopping cart.

How about allowing developers to use Apple Pay in-app? I assume you regard that as secure? And what about all of the non-digital transactions that happen in-app that don’t go through Apple’s payment system? As far as I’m aware there doesn’t appear to be security issues there. If there was we’d for sure have heard about it. E-commerce existed before the iTunes Store and Apple’s IAP.

Because I don’t need a virus checker on my iPhone like you do on an Android.

If you want an open platform to do as you please and potentially screw up choose Android, if you want the safety blanket of the walled garden choose iOS. It’s a simple choice at the end of the day.

As I said on another thread most smartphone users are tech illiterate morons and for those people the walled garden approach protects them from scams and viruses far more than Android’s approach.

How would something like Gatekeeper impact my 76 year old mom who has an iPad. She wouldn’t even know it exists and if she wanted to download an app would do so from the App Store. Gatekeeper would exist for the small percentage of users who DO know what they’re doing not for the majority that don’t.

 

[macphisto]

Everyone’s argument that Apple and iOS is a monopoly doesn’t hold much water. Android is the dominant mobile OS in the world by a large margin.