Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Terminates Epic Games' Developer Account
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That's perfectly fine and the right mechanism for resolving Epic's problem is letting the market decide. If Epic isn't happy with 30% "tax", they are free to remove their app from Apple's platforms. If lack of Fortnite (or whichever other developers decide to leave the platform) causes a dip in iDevice sales, Apple will react as appropriate for their business strategy. As it stands now, Apple's position is that with over 1.4B devices their platform is still represents an attractive opportunity for developers.
Furthermore, Apple's 30% cut is in line with other major platforms:
| Google Play Store | 30% (15% for subscriptions after 12 months) |
| Amazon App Store | 30% (20% for video streaming subscriptions) |
| Samsung Galaxy Store | 30% (or otherwise agreed-upon) |
| Microsoft Store |
|
| Apple App Store | 30% (15% for subscriptions after 12 months) |
lol and Apple is not greedy with this artificial gate fee to iOS? When they never had such a fee on the Mac for decades.
I agree about the convenience... but not having an option kinda sucks.
I own android and iOS devices and I pretty much stick to the Play store for Android apps.
But there are occasions where I want to load something that isn't available on the store and I trust the source that is offering the app.
Way to go Apple for not capitulating. Epic agreed to the terms and conditions, or did they not read them like the rest of us?
Thank you for spending the time to post the main problem. All except Apple allows you to distribute apps outside the App Store. Just because something seems like it’s “normal” does not mean it should stay like this forever.
Linux was popular for a specific group of users. Consumers in the early 2000s were not Linux’s mainstream audience.
But they have rules right? I can’t sell a terrorist training video game on their platform right?
As I said in another post... it only takes one major win in court and the others will fall in line.
Epic decided to take that risk.
My "fantasy" is based on historical evidence and statements from legal scholars involved in the case.
It's interesting that I presented facts, dates, quotes and people.
Sadly I didn't get the same in return.
Oh well, I tried.
What is illegal about what Apple is doing??? There are other pay systems out there that Apple refuses to allow app developers to use. These is only ONE app store. if app developers want to develop apps for the iphone, they can't go to another store, they have to use the only one that exists which means they are forced to abide by those store rules.
There was only one OS that people really wanted to use and that was Microsoft's windows. Software developers wrote web browsers to work on the OS but Windows refused these other browsers to be packaged or installed along side windows on a new computer install.
What Microsoft did the courts determined to be illegal. The same will happen to Apple.
Think about it.
Yeah Im sure apple are real worried about the EU after the last time they crushed the EU commission
Apple wins landmark court battle with EU over €14.3bn of tax payments
Judges annul ruling by European Commission in blow to competition commissioner Margrethe Vestager
I've avoided adding my 2 cents to this whole debacle, but I've had enough reading the pro-Apple comments here.
Here's the truth, chew on it.
For all those who want to claim that Apple is right and fair in its offering, your sadly wrong. Let's use this Walmart example, and let's say its the poop stool from Shark Tank as the product. Poop stool can be sold at any brick and mortar store, any online only storefront, and directly from their website. Of course selling it directly nets more profit, but they pay a fair negotiated price to be distributed. Now say Walmart demands a higher cut of the distribution fee, poop stool says OK, no more for you, starts shipping more to Target. It can control its distribution costs by leveraging a fair, marketplace of plentiful retailers.
Now look at Apple's Eco-system. They are the ONLY distributor, warehouse, and payment system available. They are the gatekeeper to the Apple system. They didn't develop the game, they didn't write the code, however they DID provide the tools to make such game work on their Eco-system. Epic didn't rely on Apple tools to make Fortnite, they used the developer tools to make it for work for Apple products. Hence the developers covert the game for every other platform too PS,XBOX,PC,NINTENDO, ANDROID, Etc.
With Apple, you can't sell the software without going through them, you can't change retailers, you can't change app stores, you can't use any other way to reach the customer except through them. There's no negotiating at the table, so every developer loses 30% of their revenue to Apple in return for access to these customers. The Apple developer tools for most are just ways to convert the app to work on ios, so bigger companies like Epic could absorb this revenue loss, but smaller John Doe's in a basement are stuck losing the same amount. 30% makes a difference when you sell millions a year vs $50k/yr on an app.
I believe in the end if the governments of the world aren't paid off, that Apple will lose this fight. They ARE the only way to access the customer base of Apple products. They are anti-competition, and they know it. By trying to shoo these developers under the rug, they're only getting more intensely investigated.
Maybe we need a developers union? To fight for the rights of all developers. Because if every developer got together and collectively pulled down the #1 revenue source of Apple, I think they might come back to the table. Otherwise, we all just eat what's served. "Everyone ignore the problem, until it shows up on your doorstop."
Here's the truth, chew on it.
For all those who want to claim that Apple is right and fair in its offering, your sadly wrong. Let's use this Walmart example, and let's say its the poop stool from Shark Tank as the product. Poop stool can be sold at any brick and mortar store, any online only storefront, and directly from their website. Of course selling it directly nets more profit, but they pay a fair negotiated price to be distributed. Now say Walmart demands a higher cut of the distribution fee, poop stool says OK, no more for you, starts shipping more to Target. It can control its distribution costs by leveraging a fair, marketplace of plentiful retailers.
Now look at Apple's Eco-system. They are the ONLY distributor, warehouse, and payment system available. They are the gatekeeper to the Apple system. They didn't develop the game, they didn't write the code, however they DID provide the tools to make such game work on their Eco-system. Epic didn't rely on Apple tools to make Fortnite, they used the developer tools to make it for work for Apple products. Hence the developers covert the game for every other platform too PS,XBOX,PC,NINTENDO, ANDROID, Etc.
With Apple, you can't sell the software without going through them, you can't change retailers, you can't change app stores, you can't use any other way to reach the customer except through them. There's no negotiating at the table, so every developer loses 30% of their revenue to Apple in return for access to these customers. The Apple developer tools for most are just ways to convert the app to work on ios, so bigger companies like Epic could absorb this revenue loss, but smaller John Doe's in a basement are stuck losing the same amount. 30% makes a difference when you sell millions a year vs $50k/yr on an app.
I believe in the end if the governments of the world aren't paid off, that Apple will lose this fight. They ARE the only way to access the customer base of Apple products. They are anti-competition, and they know it. By trying to shoo these developers under the rug, they're only getting more intensely investigated.
Maybe we need a developers union? To fight for the rights of all developers. Because if every developer got together and collectively pulled down the #1 revenue source of Apple, I think they might come back to the table. Otherwise, we all just eat what's served. "Everyone ignore the problem, until it shows up on your doorstop."
That's totally fine, but the burden is on Epic to demonstrate that Apple's (and rest of App Stores) policies are harmful to the consumer. Being a monopoly or oligopoly is not illegal. Abusing monopoly position is, which Epic needs to demonstrate in court and have the argument survive the appeals process.
So Epic was fine with the dev agreement for a decade, but now they decide it’s not fair.
Why now?
I am aware of and understand the issue. I am just making the point that the blanket statement of others, that this isn’t a simple “iOS is a monopoly.”
Apple is not 100% clean in this issue. The rules are obtuse, closely protected, and on occasion dumbfounding. No, Apple’s logic that they are protecting the customer is a thinly veiled excuse of mistakes and deliberate decisions that they make concerning the App Store.
Before setting up a developers union, I suggest doing some research into how it was for developers before the App Store and the outrageous % games distributors took from developers. You might actually find over the years Apple has done far more for developers than any other company. Bit like how apple music pays artist far more than Spotify does, Spotify might claim apple has an unfair advantage in music but that give that back to artists. Of course thats never is reported as it doesn't fit the Apple is bad narrative thats fashionable to push these days
I hope Apple gets split like they did with Microsoft back in the days. They abused their vast sphere of influence enough already. Maybe then they’ll finally start caring about their primary audience again: their customers.
Android already has a built in anti-virus program which runs in the background without your knowledge checking for malware.
I believe Epic tried to be opportunistic given the EU and others Antitrust Hoopla. They shot everything they had in one gross miscalculation.
They are now alone on the street corner trying to push The Big Kid off the curb. Why they thought there would be a rush of others joining to push with them is baffling.
Absolute failure in strategic planning by both leadership and legal at Epic.
An Epic fail, pun intended.
They will return eventually. The only question IMO is will Sweeney need to be replaced for Tim to allow it. Many still love to talk about the ruthless side of Steve. Well, Tim can be just as ruthless behind that “It’s Magical” Storefront if not more so.