Apple Tested Stage Manager on iPads Without M1 Chip and Wasn't Satisfied

[babyexercise]

A benchmark between the iPad Air 4 (A14) and the 2021 iPad Pro (M1) showed the write speed of the internal storage was essentially 3x faster. 589MBps vs 1532MBps. I think in the year since that benchmark, updates to iPadOS have allowed the iPad Pro M1 to achieve higher speeds, the same benchmark giving a result of 2169MBps.

Not only do you have a much faster SSD, but you have more RAM. An older iPad with Stage Manager might need to use swap more because it has 4GB/6GB of RAM in the first place, and then the swap itself is much slower. That can compound into far worse performance where the thing you need to use more is slower.

I can't seem to find how fast the 2020 iPad Pro storage is though. Looking through some benchmarks for the 2018 iPad Pro shows that it is slower than the iPad Air 4, somewhere in the 300MBps range - and that iPad Pro only had 4GB RAM in the base model.

I'm not saying the above is evidence that stage manager couldn't run, but it's enough to reconsider that Apple's explanation MAY be truthful. And I'm not pro-Apple on this. I for one think they skimped on RAM amount and storage quality in the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros which is inexcusable considering the pro prices they charged for it and the fact they probably knew pro features requiring better hardware were on the horizon.

PassMark iOS Benchmark Disk Rating Charts

Air 5 wifi ssd is even slower than Mini 6 lol xd

 

[teh_hunterer]

PassMark iOS Benchmark Disk Rating Charts

Air 5 wifi ssd is even slower than Mini 6 lol xd

That doesn't really give any granular indication of write speeds like the numbers I provided. Not useful, doesn't prove anything. Everything I've said still stands as well.

I'm done with this argument. You simply don't engage with points and just repeat your assertions (or move on to new ones). It's entirely pointless. You are a wonderful troll, kept me going for ages.

Keep talking in circles to make your unjustified claims - nobody is listening anymore.

 

[lindros2]

so what we're saying is that the actual tech benchmark facts prove that Apple's marketing was.. lying?

 

[babyexercise]

That doesn't really give any granular indication of write speeds like the numbers I provided. Not useful, doesn't prove anything. Everything I've said still stands as well.

I'm done with this argument. You simply don't engage with points and just repeat your assertions (or move on to new ones). It's entirely pointless. You are a wonderful troll, kept me going for ages.

Keep talking in circles to make your unjustified claims - nobody is listening anymore.

Dude this is the number 1 result in Google for iPad ssd speed, you don’t know how to debate anymore then it is ok lol xd

 

[teh_hunterer]

There's no point arguing with someone who keeps moving the goalposts just to keep the argument going. I quote the actual write speed numbers, you refuse to acknowledge them. There's no point debating someone with no comprehension.

 

[babyexercise]

There's no point arguing with someone who keeps moving the goalposts just to keep the argument going. I quote the actual write speed numbers, you refuse to acknowledge them. There's no point debating someone with no comprehension.

Dude that is a professional rating counting both read and write speeds. Do you just use an OS to write? Lol xd

 

[babyexercise]

A benchmark between the iPad Air 4 (A14) and the 2021 iPad Pro (M1) showed the write speed of the internal storage was essentially 3x faster. 589MBps vs 1532MBps. I think in the year since that benchmark, updates to iPadOS have allowed the iPad Pro M1 to achieve higher speeds, the same benchmark giving a result of 2169MBps.

Not only do you have a much faster SSD, but you have more RAM. An older iPad with Stage Manager might need to use swap more because it has 4GB/6GB of RAM in the first place, and then the swap itself is much slower. That can compound into far worse performance where the thing you need to use more is slower.

I can't seem to find how fast the 2020 iPad Pro storage is though. Looking through some benchmarks for the 2018 iPad Pro shows that it is slower than the iPad Air 4, somewhere in the 300MBps range - and that iPad Pro only had 4GB RAM in the base model.

I'm not saying the above is evidence that stage manager couldn't run, but it's enough to reconsider that Apple's explanation MAY be truthful. And I'm not pro-Apple on this. I for one think they skimped on RAM amount and storage quality in the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros which is inexcusable considering the pro prices they charged for it and the fact they probably knew pro features requiring better hardware were on the horizon.

Comparing to air 4? Come on we were talking about pro 2020.

 

[rui no onna]

A benchmark between the iPad Air 4 (A14) and the 2021 iPad Pro (M1) showed the write speed of the internal storage was essentially 3x faster. 589MBps vs 1532MBps. I think in the year since that benchmark, updates to iPadOS have allowed the iPad Pro M1 to achieve higher speeds, the same benchmark giving a result of 2169MBps.

Not only do you have a much faster SSD, but you have more RAM. An older iPad with Stage Manager might need to use swap more because it has 4GB/6GB of RAM in the first place, and then the swap itself is much slower. That can compound into far worse performance where the thing you need to use more is slower.

I can't seem to find how fast the 2020 iPad Pro storage is though. Looking through some benchmarks for the 2018 iPad Pro shows that it is slower than the iPad Air 4, somewhere in the 300MBps range - and that iPad Pro only had 4GB RAM in the base model.

I'm not saying the above is evidence that stage manager couldn't run, but it's enough to reconsider that Apple's explanation MAY be truthful. And I'm not pro-Apple on this. I for one think they skimped on RAM amount and storage quality in the 2018 and 2020 iPad Pros which is inexcusable considering the pro prices they charged for it and the fact they probably knew pro features requiring better hardware were on the horizon.

It should be noted that capacity makes a big difference in sequential throughput. Performance may also be affected by stuff under the hood like RAM caching, pseudo-SLC caching, etc. These can be the reasons why the benchmarks aren’t always consistent. Also, sequential performance isn’t the be all and end all. I’d argue IOPS and random read/write are more important for an OS drive.

I don’t think Apple skimped on storage quality on the 2018/2020 Pros. The SSD controller is part of the Apple chipset and they’ve been improving that generation after generation. The A12X storage performance is significantly better compared to A10X and A9X. Iirc, A9 is when they added the SSD controller to the chipset post-Anobit acquisition. Apple does have a history of skimping on base storage quantity.

Mind, Apple’s always been stingy with RAM (at least on iPhones and iPads). The 8/16GB on the 2021 Pro came as a total surprise to me. I thought we’d be stuck with 6GB for a few more years (4GB was pretty much top RAM from 2015 to 2019, excluding the non-standard 6GB/1TB).

At least for my usage (mostly Safari, Goodreader, Excel, Dropbox, Google apps):

4GB: Okay for split view+slide over-type multitasking up to iOS 12. Sadly, I’ve had active split view apps crashing due to lack of memory after updating to iPadOS 13.

6GB: Okay for split view+slide over-type multitasking on iPadOS 13+ but doesn’t appear to have much headroom.

16GB: Plenty of headroom.

Here are benchmarks for a 256GB Air 4 and 1TB 2020 Pro.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

If Apple didn't keep making up technical excuses, this probably would've been forgotten by now.

Right. BUT this way, more and more people that might be in a position to buy an iPad in the future will be aware that this is a difference that may mean they want to buy the more expensive one. Pretty good marketing saturation.

 

[darngooddesign]

All facts have pointed out that Apple can just easily turn on a hidden mode then a lot of not super old ipads can run Stage Manager without any problem, just Apple wants to boost their most expensive new pro and air sales and would not care how current older ipad users feel including people bought super expensive pro 2020 in year 2021.

You have no evidence or proof that that "internal testing mode" means that it can be run on older iPads without any problems. Until there are videos of it running on an A12, that mode is irrelevant to your point.

Apple isn't going to release it if the experience is laggy because they know there will be a ton of people claiming that its evidence of planned obsolescence. Just like when Apple added battery management to allow older iPhones run the latest OS; all they got was complaints about how they were slowing down those phones. So the whole Stage Manager/Swap Memory/Multitasking has to run nice and smooth with several demanding apps otherwise they'll just get more complaints.

 

[babyexercise]

You have no evidence or proof that it can be run without any problems.

Apple isn't going to release it if the experience is laggy because they know there will be a ton of people claiming that its evidence of planned obsolescence. So the whole Stage Manager/Swap Memory/Multitasking has to run nice and smooth with several demanding apps otherwise they'll just get more complaints.

On the other hand, how do you prove it would have problem? Pro 2020 may runs even more smooth than air 5 with it.

 

[ignatius345]

Then TWEAK THE THING until you're satisfied!!!

You roll out a whole bunch of things that stutter, crash, and burst into flames, and now suddenly you care about customer experience?

Apple is just not interested in offering toned down versions of their UI and features. It's a real shame, because in a perfect world they would just offer some less resource-intensive version of Stage Manager (for instance) for A-series iPads. And across the board, it seems like OS updates can be brutal on older hardware, gradually slowing down devices until they become less usable.

 

[rui no onna]

PassMark iOS Benchmark Disk Rating Charts

Air 5 wifi ssd is even slower than Mini 6 lol xd

You really should look at those charts again.

Air 5 (Cellular) 30,844
Air 4 (Cellular) 22,323
Mini 6 (Cellular) 22,002
Air 5 (WiFi) 21,929
Air 4 (WiFi) 20,755
Mini 6 (WiFi) 16,867

The scores are an average based on the samples submitted.

No, there really isn’t that big a difference in storage speeds between cellular and wifi. What is likely happening here is that more cellular buyers are also springing for faster 256GB storage while there are more wifi buyers getting 64GB.

PassMark for Mini 256GB (~26K) and M1 Pro 11 1TB (~50K).

 

[GuillaumeB]

The DTK had 16Gb of memory. And macOS is pretty easy to slow down as a user.

Strangely enough macOS works fine on old MacBook powered by Intel chips that are slower than the A12Z both in terms of CPU and GPU and, oh wait havent we been able to use an external display in extended mode on those chips for like... what ...decades ?

 

[babyexercise]

You really should look at those charts again.

Air 5 (Cellular) 30,844
Air 4 (Cellular) 22,323
Mini 6 (Cellular) 22,002
Air 5 (WiFi) 21,929
Air 4 (WiFi) 20,755
Mini 6 (WiFi) 16,867

The scores are an average based on the samples submitted.

No, there really isn’t that big a difference in storage speeds between cellular and wifi. What is likely happening here is that more cellular buyers are also springing for faster 256GB storage while there are more wifi buyers getting 64GB.

PassMark for Mini 256GB (~26K) and M1 Pro 11 1TB (~50K).

Pro 2020 has higher score than air 5 wifi

 

[darngooddesign]

On the other hand, how do you prove it would have problem? Pro 2020 may runs even more smooth than air 5 with it.

The M1 has faster RAM, faster SSD, a more powerful CPU, a more powerful GPU, higher drive/memory bandwidth, and runs at a higher clock speed; there are no benchmarks that support the idea of the A12Z running Stage Manager more smoothly than the M1.

But your argument is that the A12 can run it acceptably so its up to you to provide evidence.

 

[babyexercise]

The M1 has faster RAM, faster SSD, a more powerful CPU, a more powerful GPU, and runs at a higher clock speed; there are no benchmarks that support the idea of the A12Z running Stage Manager more smoothly than the M1.

But your argument is that the A12 can run it acceptably so its up to you to provide evidence.

Pro 2020 ssd is faster than air 5
6gm ram cannot run it…you believe that? Lol

 

[darngooddesign]

Pro 2020 ssd is faster than air 5
6gm ram cannot run it…you believe that? Lol

LOL all you want, but that's a funny way of saying that you don't have evidence.

 

[babyexercise]

LOL all you want, but that's a funny way of saying that you don't have evidence.

You don’t have evidence too
Because Apple will not let you active the hidden mode lol guess why they don’t let you try it if run with older ipad really that laggy lol

 

[rui no onna]

Pro 2020 has higher score than air 5 wifi

Faster than 64GB probably (which isn’t getting swap anyway), but not 256GB.

Air 5 (Cellular) 30,844
Pro 12.9 4th gen (Cellular) 22,323
Air 4 (Cellular) 22,323
Pro 11 2nd gen (Cellular) 22,156
Mini 6 (Cellular) 22,002
Air 5 (WiFi) 21,929
Pro 12.9 4th gen (WiFi) 21,053
Air 4 (WiFi) 20,755
Pro 11 2nd gen (WiFi) 18,671
Mini 6 (WiFi) 16,867

 

[darngooddesign]

You don’t have evidence too
Because Apple will not let you active the hidden mode lol guess why they don’t let you try it if run with older ipad really that laggy lol

You are the one saying that Apple is lying, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

 

[babyexercise]

Faster than 64GB probably (which isn’t getting swap anyway), but not 256GB.

Air 5 (Cellular) 30,844
Pro 12.9 4th gen (Cellular) 22,323
Air 4 (Cellular) 22,323
Pro 11 2nd gen (Cellular) 22,156
Mini 6 (Cellular) 22,002
Air 5 (WiFi) 21,929
Pro 12.9 4th gen (WiFi) 21,053
Air 4 (WiFi) 20,755
Pro 11 2nd gen (WiFi) 18,671
Mini 6 (WiFi) 16,867

64gb air 5 can run Stage Manager

 

[babyexercise]

You are the one saying that Apple is lying, therefore the burden of proof is on you.

I said
without any problem
Which word is “Apple is lying”?

 

[Jim Lahey]

From what I’ve seen in videos of the beta, it looks like Stage Manager runs at about 20fps and is hella janky so if that is any indicator of typical performance on an M1 iPad then I’m glad it won’t work on mine 👍

 

[darngooddesign]

I said
without any problem
Which word is “Apple is lying”?

Apple says Stage Manager didn't run well on A12 iPads. You're arguing that it will run well. Therefore you are saying that Apple is lying.